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Yu-Gi-Oh GX the 12 dimensions
- Thread starter Zencha9
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Strym
If the radar is inconsistent, that's fine. But it's been used as a major point a few times now, not sure if everyone else would agree.
Zencha
On Neo Space:
1- Neither are the 12 dimensions if you still want to use the radar
2- Correct me if I'm wrong, but these aren't just alternative histories of the GX universe; they're entirely separate and considered to be apart of the Duel Spirit World. If it was more like, for example, how Arc-V has MWI then it would fit. But at the moment it doesn't.
3- That's an "A is true, ergo B is true, ergo A is true" line of logic. Also, I already pointed out how Waking the Dragons and the World/Layer of Darkness aren't universal, based on the images Alonik brought. In the same scans, they also call the reflection a universe when showing the Earth and the Layer of Darkness are the same size.
4- Neo Space is also stated to be spatially separated (21:00).
It's very clear the darkness of the hearts of humans amp Darkness. If anything, the Layer/World of Darkness is bigger than whatever it was when it began consuming the Waking the Dragons dimension, which apparently is smaller than Earth when we consider the Layer came after that.
...I literally pointed out that Darkness begins consuming the Waking the Dragons universe alongside the Duel Academy beginning to plan a party before they graduate and linked everything. How is that headcanon? Are you going to argue that they weren't going to graduate? If so, I'll like to see your arguments for everyone to dissect.
I don't see why we shouldn't take Honest literally, especially since everyone else seems to accept Honest's statements from what I can tell. And it's pretty reiterated by the Darkness' own claims.
If the Darkness is busy elsewhere, an equal foe (Light in this case) would gain an advantage. That's just how having equal battles work?
"Also i still fail to see how the universe is connected to the 12 dimensions"
Just wanted to answer this for Alonik, but he got some translations that stated that the universe is 12 dimensioned. Which either proves my point or upgrades the cosmology to tier 1 rather than 2-C.
Also thanks to Jeune Fou's scan, further proves the idea that the dimensions are within the universe, as the darkness exists in between them.
If the radar is inconsistent, that's fine. But it's been used as a major point a few times now, not sure if everyone else would agree.
Zencha
On Neo Space:
1- Neither are the 12 dimensions if you still want to use the radar
2- Correct me if I'm wrong, but these aren't just alternative histories of the GX universe; they're entirely separate and considered to be apart of the Duel Spirit World. If it was more like, for example, how Arc-V has MWI then it would fit. But at the moment it doesn't.
3- That's an "A is true, ergo B is true, ergo A is true" line of logic. Also, I already pointed out how Waking the Dragons and the World/Layer of Darkness aren't universal, based on the images Alonik brought. In the same scans, they also call the reflection a universe when showing the Earth and the Layer of Darkness are the same size.
4- Neo Space is also stated to be spatially separated (21:00).
It's very clear the darkness of the hearts of humans amp Darkness. If anything, the Layer/World of Darkness is bigger than whatever it was when it began consuming the Waking the Dragons dimension, which apparently is smaller than Earth when we consider the Layer came after that.
...I literally pointed out that Darkness begins consuming the Waking the Dragons universe alongside the Duel Academy beginning to plan a party before they graduate and linked everything. How is that headcanon? Are you going to argue that they weren't going to graduate? If so, I'll like to see your arguments for everyone to dissect.
I don't see why we shouldn't take Honest literally, especially since everyone else seems to accept Honest's statements from what I can tell. And it's pretty reiterated by the Darkness' own claims.
If the Darkness is busy elsewhere, an equal foe (Light in this case) would gain an advantage. That's just how having equal battles work?
"Also i still fail to see how the universe is connected to the 12 dimensions"
Just wanted to answer this for Alonik, but he got some translations that stated that the universe is 12 dimensioned. Which either proves my point or upgrades the cosmology to tier 1 rather than 2-C.
Also thanks to Jeune Fou's scan, further proves the idea that the dimensions are within the universe, as the darkness exists in between them.
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I think we got a solution to this, and let me bring DBS again.
We don't treat each of the 12 universes as a 2-C realm, because Mortal Universe and Afterlife, despite being both spatially disconnected, are still counted as a single universe, x2 bigger than the irl one but still an universe, ergo Low 2-C. However, we still count the timeline as 2-C and not Low 2-C, why? Because each of the universes is still its own space-time continuum, and is even disconnected from each other, and they don't have the same problem as U7 structure, as they're actually indipendent from each other unlike the Afterlife and Mortal Universe. This applies here as well, the 12 dimensions here have enough context to have each one their own space-time and are even spatially disconnected too, like each of the 12 DBS universes.
We don't treat each of the 12 universes as a 2-C realm, because Mortal Universe and Afterlife, despite being both spatially disconnected, are still counted as a single universe, x2 bigger than the irl one but still an universe, ergo Low 2-C. However, we still count the timeline as 2-C and not Low 2-C, why? Because each of the universes is still its own space-time continuum, and is even disconnected from each other, and they don't have the same problem as U7 structure, as they're actually indipendent from each other unlike the Afterlife and Mortal Universe. This applies here as well, the 12 dimensions here have enough context to have each one their own space-time and are even spatially disconnected too, like each of the 12 DBS universes.
Pretty sure that's a way to say that the universe in its entirely is made of 12 dimensions, each being Low 2-C in this case, and shouldn't be taken in a Tier 1 way. Context is a thing, I want to remember this.
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Unfortunately, we don't treat the timeline in DBS as 2-C (As shown by Beerus, BoG Goku, and Infinite Zamasu). We just treat it as a bigger 3-A feat but a regular Low 2-C feat if time is also destroyed. Not sure where you got that unless the above characters got an upgrade I'm not aware of.
If they're inside the universe, they wouldn't be Low 2-C each. They would be smaller, or like Dragon Ball's cosmology, but still not Low 2-C each.
And I feel like we're ignoring how the Layer of Darkness is only Earth-sized after consuming the Waking the Dragons dimension, its the biggest thing that prevents this from being Tier 2 or even Tier 3 and 4.
If they're inside the universe, they wouldn't be Low 2-C each. They would be smaller, or like Dragon Ball's cosmology, but still not Low 2-C each.
And I feel like we're ignoring how the Layer of Darkness is only Earth-sized after consuming the Waking the Dragons dimension, its the biggest thing that prevents this from being Tier 2 or even Tier 3 and 4.
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On Zeno's profile
We consider the universes in Dragon Ball alternate time-spaces relative to each other, hence why Zen'ō is rated as 2-C, despite the events in the Goku Black Saga showing parallel timelines encompassing the whole of the multiverse.
The reason for this is that Universe 7 by itself has already been shown to contain parallel space-time continuums within its globe, such as the Room of Spirit and Time, which is still affected by time travel; which proves that the new timelines can encompass other space-times as well, and thus the events in the Future Trunks Saga don't prove anything in the way of the universes being physically connected.
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As I said before using the translations to define what is a world "世界" (universe) and what is a world "世界" (planet) to say that it is contradictory is quite wrong, since the original world of the Darkness is larger than Judai universe, and obviously we see here how Japanese develops through context.
Speaking from a point of view without the wrong translations, in the original the work passes the following sense:
The Darkness canvas when all dimensions were born became weak, and is now trying to enter each of those dimensions and dominate them into darkness so that everything returns to the original state before the dimensions existed with everything being one with the concept of the formless darkness.
An interesting point to note is that the Darkness manifested on earth and the neos planet is from outside the universe apparently, and the same thing in the other dimensions, while Honest himself says that the Darkness exists between the dimensions. So, it would be very unlikely that the Darkness spoken of here in question would exist through space in Jaden's universe and between Neos' planet for example, but rather something that comes from outside and is trying to dominate this dimension and each of the others.
It is even more concrete when we see that the Darkness can only form a manifestation in Judai's universe in a layer on top of the earth, and only then would it have the reach for Jupiter. This notion invalidates a lot the idea, for example, that there is darkness between 世界 (planet) such as between the earth and jupiter, and further validates the idea that darkness is a void that lies outside the universe, and between the other 世界 (universe)
Speaking from a point of view without the wrong translations, in the original the work passes the following sense:
The Darkness canvas when all dimensions were born became weak, and is now trying to enter each of those dimensions and dominate them into darkness so that everything returns to the original state before the dimensions existed with everything being one with the concept of the formless darkness.
An interesting point to note is that the Darkness manifested on earth and the neos planet is from outside the universe apparently, and the same thing in the other dimensions, while Honest himself says that the Darkness exists between the dimensions. So, it would be very unlikely that the Darkness spoken of here in question would exist through space in Jaden's universe and between Neos' planet for example, but rather something that comes from outside and is trying to dominate this dimension and each of the others.
It is even more concrete when we see that the Darkness can only form a manifestation in Judai's universe in a layer on top of the earth, and only then would it have the reach for Jupiter. This notion invalidates a lot the idea, for example, that there is darkness between 世界 (planet) such as between the earth and jupiter, and further validates the idea that darkness is a void that lies outside the universe, and between the other 世界 (universe)
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Strym
I'm talking about the various timelines / space-times in each universe (Which is just treated as Low 2-C), rather than the greater cosmology of DBS.
Alonik
I'm not arguing they're calling the dimensions "planets", I'm pointing out that the size of the dimensions is more accurately like pocket realities rather than full-blown timelines.
I agree, and you can make a page for original darkness if you'd like; but in the context of this thread, we're discussing current darkness, and based on what's shown, it isn't anywhere near as large as before.
It's been stated repeatedly, from the beginning of the conflict of the Light of Destruction to the ending with Nightshroud that darkness, at the very least in its current stated, is half of the universe (The half in which most of GX takes place) and that entails the other dimensions also exist within this space.
I would argue this proves my point as well, as its manifestation after consuming another dimension is only as large as Earth. Like I mentioned earlier, the details either suggest 1) The other dimensions are part of the greater universe, 2) The other dimensions may exist outside the greater universe but are similar in size to Earth (Like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber), or 3) They're geometrical dimensions (Way too contradictory). Either way, for the context of the thread, at best we'll see 5-A Yubel with Low Multiversal / Interdimensional Range or 5-B Yubel with Multi-Galactic / Interdimensional Range, both with Preparation only.
I'm talking about the various timelines / space-times in each universe (Which is just treated as Low 2-C), rather than the greater cosmology of DBS.
Alonik
I'm not arguing they're calling the dimensions "planets", I'm pointing out that the size of the dimensions is more accurately like pocket realities rather than full-blown timelines.
I agree, and you can make a page for original darkness if you'd like; but in the context of this thread, we're discussing current darkness, and based on what's shown, it isn't anywhere near as large as before.
It's been stated repeatedly, from the beginning of the conflict of the Light of Destruction to the ending with Nightshroud that darkness, at the very least in its current stated, is half of the universe (The half in which most of GX takes place) and that entails the other dimensions also exist within this space.
I would argue this proves my point as well, as its manifestation after consuming another dimension is only as large as Earth. Like I mentioned earlier, the details either suggest 1) The other dimensions are part of the greater universe, 2) The other dimensions may exist outside the greater universe but are similar in size to Earth (Like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber), or 3) They're geometrical dimensions (Way too contradictory). Either way, for the context of the thread, at best we'll see 5-A Yubel with Low Multiversal / Interdimensional Range or 5-B Yubel with Multi-Galactic / Interdimensional Range, both with Preparation only.
Zencha9
They/Them- 4,222
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1_How? None of the alternate dimensions that are stated to be part of the 12 dimensions ever interact with the main universe
Neo space being separated is literally a contradiction
2-none of that really matters since when the 12 dimensions were introduced that was the explanation for their existence and the comparison alone is what matters
3-Alonik's scans also confiremd for me that the world of darkness isn't a part of the 12 dimensions since it exist between the space within the dimensions and Because he's a formless darkness that is the reason why the radar couldn't sense the world of darkness
Also can bring me the scans that debunked waking the dragon dimension being universal?
4-i explained how that's literally contrdicted when a regular satellite files so his words aren't literal
Anyways like i explained above the main universe would much more harder to consume than the spirit world
Can bring me the scans since i don't remember that
It doesn't mean his darkness from the main universe is just Gone
Just Because he's in the space between the dimensions doesn't mean the dimensions are linked
Neo space being separated is literally a contradiction
2-none of that really matters since when the 12 dimensions were introduced that was the explanation for their existence and the comparison alone is what matters
3-Alonik's scans also confiremd for me that the world of darkness isn't a part of the 12 dimensions since it exist between the space within the dimensions and Because he's a formless darkness that is the reason why the radar couldn't sense the world of darkness
Also can bring me the scans that debunked waking the dragon dimension being universal?
4-i explained how that's literally contrdicted when a regular satellite files so his words aren't literal
You gotta know that the spirit world is literally made from emotions and the beings in there are the same too so it's obviously would 5way faster to consume the spirit world and it's entirety than the human world
Oh i took the "it would take care Forever" as literal
Anyways like i explained above the main universe would much more harder to consume than the spirit world
So is the empowering each other thing honest told
Can bring me the scans since i don't remember that
No since if darkness himself the character goes to the spirit world for example
It doesn't mean his darkness from the main universe is just Gone
I really doubt that but even if it is for argument sake that still wouldn't be tier 1
How?
Just Because he's in the space between the dimensions doesn't mean the dimensions are linked
Zencha9
They/Them- 4,222
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So here's the issues with your interpretation if i should even call it that @SomebodyData
2- assuming random dimensions are part of the 12 dimensions when it wasn't stated nor implied like neo space and the darkness dimension since darkness existed before the creation of the universe and is within the space between the dimensions in season 4 there's no reason to call it part of the 12 dimensions since again it doesn't fill the requirements
3-assuming the dimensions are just small pocket realites when every dimension that is stated to be part of the 12 dimensions have stars in them clearly shows that they are not just planets
4-the 12 dimensions being part of the same universe would contradict why everyone need to make a hole in space-time to send rainbow dragon
5-it would also contradict the dr's statement saying the dimensions are separated
6-the whole the 12 dimensions were being fused is false since it would contradict yubel's motivation and would contradict her needing super poly to fuse it it would also contradict the radar clearly showing the dimensions being separated and not overlapping each other and contrdict the hole in space time
7- it would contradict the lasers a laser for each dimension and assuming more than 1 laser was sent to 1 dimension is headcanon and even contradict the fact that 1 laser was already destroying the main universe let alone 2 or 3
There's probably way more stuff that i forgot but you get the gist of it
It cases alot of contradictions that should be addressed otherwise it's just meaningless to argue any further
Contradictions
1-neo space being a separated space is contrdicted by the fact that it's clearly inside the main universe and a satellite even goes there and the fact that there's space-time between the dimensions as shown when they were trying to send rainbow dragon2- assuming random dimensions are part of the 12 dimensions when it wasn't stated nor implied like neo space and the darkness dimension since darkness existed before the creation of the universe and is within the space between the dimensions in season 4 there's no reason to call it part of the 12 dimensions since again it doesn't fill the requirements
3-assuming the dimensions are just small pocket realites when every dimension that is stated to be part of the 12 dimensions have stars in them clearly shows that they are not just planets
4-the 12 dimensions being part of the same universe would contradict why everyone need to make a hole in space-time to send rainbow dragon
5-it would also contradict the dr's statement saying the dimensions are separated
6-the whole the 12 dimensions were being fused is false since it would contradict yubel's motivation and would contradict her needing super poly to fuse it it would also contradict the radar clearly showing the dimensions being separated and not overlapping each other and contrdict the hole in space time
7- it would contradict the lasers a laser for each dimension and assuming more than 1 laser was sent to 1 dimension is headcanon and even contradict the fact that 1 laser was already destroying the main universe let alone 2 or 3
There's probably way more stuff that i forgot but you get the gist of it
It cases alot of contradictions that should be addressed otherwise it's just meaningless to argue any further
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The Tier 1 Translations would be legit whether it is separated, or in similar timelines. At least in the English Sub the Dimensions are described as coinciding with one another, between the Earth and Spirit World. Basically according to Yugioh DM: Earth Dimension -- Twelve Dimensions --- Greater Universe.
Still believe the Cosmology should be something like "2-C, possibly 1-C" if we can't decide on a middle ground, considering in the series they are in literally hints at both. The Dimensions are directly stated to be based on Quantum Mechanics, Quantum Theory, M-Theory and the direct only mentioning of the nature of the twelve dimensions apart from being separated is in an geometrical light.
Can't really see an downside. Either it's an Greater Universe, and is scaled to Tier 1 , or not, and we use 2-C, but still keep the other as an likely/possibly. Because I know a discussion when it reaches it's peak, and this thread is really nearing that stage.
Still believe the Cosmology should be something like "2-C, possibly 1-C" if we can't decide on a middle ground, considering in the series they are in literally hints at both. The Dimensions are directly stated to be based on Quantum Mechanics, Quantum Theory, M-Theory and the direct only mentioning of the nature of the twelve dimensions apart from being separated is in an geometrical light.
Can't really see an downside. Either it's an Greater Universe, and is scaled to Tier 1 , or not, and we use 2-C, but still keep the other as an likely/possibly. Because I know a discussion when it reaches it's peak, and this thread is really nearing that stage.
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Regarding the tier 1 aspect of this new discussion, don't forget you guys would need to prove the dimensions have infinite superiority to one another to get tier 1.
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Since it is literally based on M-Theory and Quantum Theory/Mechanics, since the basic framework of those theories that is universally accepted on the wiki, is that the higher-dimensions have infinite differences, which is directly stated to be the case, and then the translations hints at them being higher-dimensions, then that is technically already addressed, unless it has changed for one reason or another.
So I guess the bigger question is "Does the dimensions truly work on M-Theory and Quantum Theory/Mechanics" . The answer is an obvious yes, so I think we are good. But may I ask what do you mean about MCU Alonik ?
So I guess the bigger question is "Does the dimensions truly work on M-Theory and Quantum Theory/Mechanics" . The answer is an obvious yes, so I think we are good. But may I ask what do you mean about MCU Alonik ?
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I am well into this kind of subject, the question is for example if the following animes after the GX have this kind of function that @The_2nd_Existential_Seed talked about, if they do, there's actually no problem with. The point here is to look for scans that argue in that context, and the rest of the scalling is totally acceptable since the work generally is pretty consistent with the new series, for example as DSOD.
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Well, we know for one they work in M-Theory, which strongly ties into the twelve dimensions, which strongly ties into Yubel's statement. At worse if they don't, it just applies to the Original Duel Monsters and GX, meaning their cosmologies would only scale. Which... Wouldn't be bad, I suppose. ZEXAL describes their equivalent of the Spirit World as an higher-dimension in the manga, if that helps as secondary canon evidence.
Zencha9
They/Them- 4,222
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- #298
@Alonik sadly DSOD is a multiverse of it's own as stated by kazuki takahashi in this interview
scan
translation
Pegasus also states that the the light of destruction is an extra dimensional entity that probably helps your post about tier 1 but the scan is in my pc and i don't have it right now
But im still iffy on tier 1 stuff
scan
translation
Pegasus also states that the the light of destruction is an extra dimensional entity that probably helps your post about tier 1 but the scan is in my pc and i don't have it right now
But im still iffy on tier 1 stuff
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Nothing in this scan is saying that it is a multiverse outside the canon of the work, it is just saying that the infinite universes are beyond the main universe, which is a fact.
Here we already have a 2-A scalling for the Darkness in its original form for preceding the card that created the Multiverse, because the card that created everything is as if it were only an aspect of the Darkness.
Besides, I am not supporting tier 1, I am neutral and just trying to help the thread to conclude regardless of the side
Here we already have a 2-A scalling for the Darkness in its original form for preceding the card that created the Multiverse, because the card that created everything is as if it were only an aspect of the Darkness.
Besides, I am not supporting tier 1, I am neutral and just trying to help the thread to conclude regardless of the side
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Using DsoD here pretty much confirms the higher-dimensions route as an tier, either solidly instead of 2-C, or used in conjunction as an possibly/likely, considering the Afterlife and the Spirit World are extremely connected based on things we see in GX and such... Also, well, the World of Memories actually included the Afterlife. I didn't know what to tier it since DsoD wasn't considered, but if it's actually being considered here... Oh god.
Zencha9
They/Them- 4,222
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Just wanted to say that if DSOD is canon to the anime then it confirms higher dimensions having infinite superiority over lower ones
The afterlife is a whole can of worms that i don't want to get into since ive been planning for a massive crt regarding the manga and DSOD
The afterlife is a whole can of worms that i don't want to get into since ive been planning for a massive crt regarding the manga and DSOD
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@Zencha9 It is worth noting and realizing that there are some translation errors in the image you sent, but thanks for the image with the kanji, in fact this here will serve to have a definitive scalling as 2-A for Light and Darkness in their fight that created the entire multiverse:
This here is definitely concrete proof for tier 2-A, and that the author even references the whole fight between the darkness and the light that has existed as a strong point in the whole Yu-Gi-Oh universe.
He even tries to pass on the idea about the kanji の多次元 and 宇宙, which was a strong point of our debate with the twelve dimensions, so we have concrete proof that they are separate earths and worlds with their own universal size space and time that are separated by the Multivere theory.
It is also worthy noticing that Yubel with the Polymerization will have tier 2-C, and the darkness and the light in its original forms (and not the manifestations that was trying to dominate the creation of the light over time) with a tier 2-A
@SomebodyData and @ProfessorKukui4Life
This here is definitely concrete proof for tier 2-A, and that the author even references the whole fight between the darkness and the light that has existed as a strong point in the whole Yu-Gi-Oh universe.
He even tries to pass on the idea about the kanji の多次元 and 宇宙, which was a strong point of our debate with the twelve dimensions, so we have concrete proof that they are separate earths and worlds with their own universal size space and time that are separated by the Multivere theory.
It is also worthy noticing that Yubel with the Polymerization will have tier 2-C, and the darkness and the light in its original forms (and not the manifestations that was trying to dominate the creation of the light over time) with a tier 2-A
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The quote about the entire universe being created from a single card is in reference to GX's Season 4. Nightshroud and that whole season isn't even in the GX manga, which proves that it is both for the anime and the manga, and thusly can be used for either. Using that... It's a pretty open and shut case.
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Since higher-dimensions in the only medium that ever mentioned them aside from GX, described them as infinite gap, well:
- the 2-C feat is either changed to an Tier 1 one, which means...Tier 1 timelines [each Universe should have an Spirit World of similar levels].
- Judai at bare minimum would be the only one to scale with Super Poly, but since we now know it's very likely due to what we have, that the Twelve-Dimensions are in-fact higher-dimensional and would be Tier 1, that since Nightshroud somewhat scales to eating the Dimensions in an finite amount of time, if the Dimensions are considered Tier 1... So is he, and thusly we have a way to scale them since even if he absorbs them at an snail's pace, he would still be at that tier. And he can still keep up with him even when reduced to his S3 Self vs Yubel, so thusly we have an way to scale S3 Judai and S3 Yubel to Tier 1, albeit very loosely and only barely to baseline.
- With that, we have an actual usable scaling that wouldn't completely scale them to destroying all the dimensions so it wouldn't hurt Data's implications on no one scaling to all the dimensions sans Super Poly, but would still give them an Massive Upgrade
- S2 Battle City Yugi and above is the exception though, he is outright scales to Super Poly though. He and the Gods are outright stated to be spiritually stronger than literally anything Judai's ever encountered, and says he has a long time before he ever believes he can match him. It wouldn't make sense if he was superior using Super Poly, especially when narrative literally is Yugi and the Gods >>> Everything in GX, literally throughout the entire series.
Zencha9
They/Them- 4,222
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I realaized something i think it could supposed the anime being canon to the manga so i'll copy paste what i said
"Anyways it's dartz giving atem a vision of the future
Said future shows atem fighting bakura and atem summoning obelisk and punching diabound out of the building
But said event only happened in the manga since in the anime bakura duels seto and kills blue eyes with diabound thus giving diabound blue-eyes's power
So when atem summons obelisk and tries to punch diabound in the anime bakura tells diabound to uses bust stream of destruction which is blue-eyes's move and diabound and bakura stalemate atem instead of getting punched out of the building
If i bring this up i coud see them arguing that the vision is the manga events and thus an alternate universes Because of MWI and alternate worlds stuff in the anime and manga"
"Anyways it's dartz giving atem a vision of the future
Said future shows atem fighting bakura and atem summoning obelisk and punching diabound out of the building
But said event only happened in the manga since in the anime bakura duels seto and kills blue eyes with diabound thus giving diabound blue-eyes's power
So when atem summons obelisk and tries to punch diabound in the anime bakura tells diabound to uses bust stream of destruction which is blue-eyes's move and diabound and bakura stalemate atem instead of getting punched out of the building
If i bring this up i coud see them arguing that the vision is the manga events and thus an alternate universes Because of MWI and alternate worlds stuff in the anime and manga"
Zencha9
They/Them- 4,222
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- #310
It's actually 2 dimensions above the human world since in transcend game they were already in a higher dimensions when kaiba duels sera in a dimension that is dark kaiba also described it as the infinite darkness only being below the afterlife
And sera's whole goal is to kill kaiba by making him go to the afterlife since it has a bigger infinity
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Yep. Good god, this is wonderful.
I'm Kronk right now: "It's all coming together".
Also, 5Ds wise, if they are the same Spirit World [considering they take place in the exact same universe, shown in Bonds Beyond Time], then the Signer Dragons directly scale to it via Devack having the power of the Spirit World, and Luna stomping the daylights out of him after obtaining her Signer powers [through Ancient Fairy Dragon].
Not to mention they should scale if the above is true since Stardust would've killed Judai in a single shot if he didn't put up a last minute defesne, and we know he used Yubel's powers so it amped up Neos. Considering it was an Earthbound Immortal, empowered by essentially the whole Spirit World, yet it couldn't face Ancient Fairy Dragon, speaks volumes about their raw power.
I'm Kronk right now: "It's all coming together".
Also, 5Ds wise, if they are the same Spirit World [considering they take place in the exact same universe, shown in Bonds Beyond Time], then the Signer Dragons directly scale to it via Devack having the power of the Spirit World, and Luna stomping the daylights out of him after obtaining her Signer powers [through Ancient Fairy Dragon].
Not to mention they should scale if the above is true since Stardust would've killed Judai in a single shot if he didn't put up a last minute defesne, and we know he used Yubel's powers so it amped up Neos. Considering it was an Earthbound Immortal, empowered by essentially the whole Spirit World, yet it couldn't face Ancient Fairy Dragon, speaks volumes about their raw power.
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Too bad I was referring to that, also because the multiverse in DBS is also called a timeline in-verse iirc.
Anyway I was comparing said multiverse to the 12 dimensions.
Anyway, neutral on the Tier 1 stuff
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2nd Seed
I don't want to call the breaks on your parade, but DSOD is the sequel to the manga. Yugioh GX (And the rest of the shows for that matter) all relate back to the anime's canon.
Zencha
These responses are getting too long, so Imma bear it back down to the bare essentials here.
The Size of the Dimensions
The World of Darkness/ Layer of Darkness (Going to clarify going forward I'll only be referring to its current state, not before the universe) is shown to only be the size of Earth. This is also after Honest claims that it's actually getting amped by the corruption of various duel cards (6:00-6:56), meaning this mirror reflection is larger than it would be when it attacks another one of the 12 dimensions. It should also mentioned be that it refers to the Earth as the universe and the Layer of Darkness as its equal in the latter two panels. We also know that it consumed the Waking the Dragons world before arriving at Earth, meaning that dimension is also, at best, planetary.
Now I'm not claiming that these worlds aren't their own separate timelines / universes / etc. I'm pointing out this is more like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, which is very much an alternative universe in Dragon Ball, but only a planetary feat as you can see on the end of Vegeta's page.
So, unfortunately, by this site's standards, the feat for Yubel would be: "At least 5-B, likely 5-A with Preparation; Low Multiversal & Interdimensional Range".
Strym
The Dragon Ball multiverse isn't called a timeline in-verse.
I don't want to call the breaks on your parade, but DSOD is the sequel to the manga. Yugioh GX (And the rest of the shows for that matter) all relate back to the anime's canon.
Zencha
These responses are getting too long, so Imma bear it back down to the bare essentials here.
The Size of the Dimensions
The World of Darkness/ Layer of Darkness (Going to clarify going forward I'll only be referring to its current state, not before the universe) is shown to only be the size of Earth. This is also after Honest claims that it's actually getting amped by the corruption of various duel cards (6:00-6:56), meaning this mirror reflection is larger than it would be when it attacks another one of the 12 dimensions. It should also mentioned be that it refers to the Earth as the universe and the Layer of Darkness as its equal in the latter two panels. We also know that it consumed the Waking the Dragons world before arriving at Earth, meaning that dimension is also, at best, planetary.
Now I'm not claiming that these worlds aren't their own separate timelines / universes / etc. I'm pointing out this is more like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, which is very much an alternative universe in Dragon Ball, but only a planetary feat as you can see on the end of Vegeta's page.
So, unfortunately, by this site's standards, the feat for Yubel would be: "At least 5-B, likely 5-A with Preparation; Low Multiversal & Interdimensional Range".
Strym
The Dragon Ball multiverse isn't called a timeline in-verse.
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I thought it was in the Zamasu arc. But you got my point about comparing the multiverse to the 12 universes
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Whether it is canon or not Data, we have 2 different canons both portraying these specific spirit dimensions as being higher-dimensions [one Yubel's quote, the other being Manga's Afterlife]. That was my whole point of bringing it up.
Zencha9
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1st that it's not the full world of darkness and isn't it's full size that's when he just appears in earth the spirit world and the 12 dimensions within are already consumed
2nd i already explained how the spirit world was consumed faster Because the world itself as well as it's inhabitants are made from the emotions of the masses in earth
From the note in the profile it's literally said that it's the same size as earth and thus really fail to see how it's the same situation
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@SomebodyData I apologize for the argument I wrote while I'm sleepy, I think you have a good point.
To help improve the state of these dimensions, in episode 144 from the 8:16 minutes to 10:40 we can see countless constellations in the sky
To help improve the state of these dimensions, in episode 144 from the 8:16 minutes to 10:40 we can see countless constellations in the sky
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