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Bleach: Renji and Mask

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KazuiK said:
It is quite strange to speculate that this is not light because it is "hyperbolic". The mask skills really do what their name says, the name of his skill says he's going to headbutt and he really does, says he's going to do a lariat and he really does it, it says punch and he really punches.
Click to expand...
I mean, Gleen has a skill called ''Magical Punches'' but he does a kick, because according to him, this is what makes the ''punch'' be magical
 
Is DontTalk actually neutral? It seemed as if AKM said they were talking to some staff and then @'ed some staff (implying DT was one of the people who disagreed.) They then came and tried to break down the argument. They look to be in disagreement. I mean I could understand if you didn't count them but he wasn't neutral. I'd personally put him as "Neutral leaning Disagree" or straight up "Disagree".
 
DivineAura44 said:
Is DontTalk actually neutral? It seemed as if AKM said they were talking to some staff and then @'ed some staff (implying DT was one of the people who disagreed.) They then came and tried to break down the argument. They look to be in disagreement. I mean I could understand if you didn't count them but he wasn't neutral. I'd personally put him as "Neutral leaning Disagree" or straight up "Disagree".
Click to expand...
1. He said that and called mods who only 1 disagreed the
2. He never said DT was one of them
3. DT never said nor implied to be againts or in favor, only explaining the light requirements
4. So since he did not agree nor disagree he would not be put on side of the list of those that agreed or disagreed
 
Can somebody summarise the discussion so far and who agree with what please?
 
Antvasima said:
Can somebody summarise the discussion so far and who agree with what please?
Click to expand...
Arc7Kuroi said:
I think only other staff can @ staff, would you mind doing so?

To post a quick summary of the current arguments so the added input doesn't need to wade through 4 pages.

Pro-Light Speed Mask Attack
  • The laser is called a "beam of light", which as of this CRT, satisfies the fourth requirement given it is not contradicted.
  • The laser reflects off Renji's Zanpakuto, and is then re-affirmed by Mask stating his attack has been re-directed, satisfying another requirement.
    • Mask uses the phrase "turn aside", which means to deflect, and just refering to change in direction in general, as shown when it came into contact with a reflective blade.
  • Because Mask's laser has no anti-feats and meets two of the requirements it is light speed. Mask's laser was previous accepted as light speed before as well, but got removed when a CRT made it so "beam of light" doesn't satisfy the fourth requirement, but considering that change has been returned such that "beam of light" can satisfy said requirement, this thread was made.
Anti-Light Speed Mask Attack
  • Mask commonly refers to his opponents as "villains" and himself as a "hero", adding flair to his expressions by using phrases like "fist of justice", etc. Therefore, when Mask says "beam of light" he is also just being extra and dramatic, and he should not be taken seriously.
  • Damage specifically doesn't think Renji's blade reflected the attack. I'm not 100% sure how much the opposition holds this point as only Damage has really mentioned it, while the rest of the opposition is pushing hard for "hyperbolic Mask", but I figured I'd include it for transparency.
Click to expand...
Currently, Mitch, KingTempest, LordGriffin agree, and Elizhaa is neutral leaning yes. Damage, AKM, and Armor disagree. Shadow, Glass, and DT are neutral or no opinion.

Edit: got ninja’d by Sigurd, L
 
Yes this is just a thread to accept it as a LS attack, we are saving discussion for if it’s an outlier or not for a later thread.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Currently, Mitch, KingTempest, LordGriffin agree, and Elizhaa is neutral leaning yes. Damage, AKM, and Armor disagree. Shadow, Glass, and DT are neutral or no opinion.
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Thank you. Based on the summary, I am also neutral, but for this type of evaluation we should probably listen most to DontTalk and the calc group members.
 
The calc itself is fine, the issue is determining whether or not “beam of light” should be taken literally or not. Albeit if you’re neutral that’s fine, means we got a triple tie between yes, no, neutral, with Elizhaa tipping the scales ever so slightly in favor of yes.
 
I mean the crux of the issue is could masks statement somehow not mean what he means.

“The villain shall die by hero’s beam of light” mind you. After this statement, he fires the beam that meets another requirement.

The opposition believe this statement is somehow not literal yet immediately after he fires a beam of light.
 
At this point the argument has died. The changes probably aren't going through until opposition counters. The opposition has seen to stop countering. Next someone is gonna stand over a dead body knife in hand with blood on his shirt and the knife in their hand, say "I killed that person" and it's gonna be flowery language.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
To post a quick summary of the current arguments so the added input doesn't need to wade through 4 pages.

Pro-Light Speed Mask Attack
  • The laser is called a "beam of light", which as of this CRT, satisfies the fourth requirement given it is not contradicted.
  • The laser reflects off Renji's Zanpakuto, and is then re-affirmed by Mask stating his attack has been re-directed, satisfying another requirement.
    • Mask uses the phrase "turn aside", which means to deflect, and just refering to change in direction in general, as shown when it came into contact with a reflective blade.
  • Because Mask's laser has no anti-feats and meets two of the requirements it is light speed. Mask's laser was previous accepted as light speed before as well, but got removed when a CRT made it so "beam of light" doesn't satisfy the fourth requirement, but considering that change has been returned such that "beam of light" can satisfy said requirement, this thread was made.
Anti-Light Speed Mask Attack
  • Mask commonly refers to his opponents as "villains" and himself as a "hero", adding flair to his expressions by using phrases like "fist of justice", etc. Therefore, when Mask says "beam of light" he is also just being extra and dramatic, and he should not be taken seriously.
  • Damage specifically doesn't think Renji's blade reflected the attack. I'm not 100% sure how much the opposition holds this point as only Damage has really mentioned it, while the rest of the opposition is pushing hard for "hyperbolic Mask", but I figured I'd include it for transparency.
Click to expand...
@DontTalkDT

What do you think about the validity of the light beam feat?
 
The laser is called a "beam of light", which as of this CRT, satisfies the fourth requirement given it is not contradicted.
Click to expand...
This is false. This does not satisfy the fourth requirement, which reads:
  • It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source
The fourth requirement has a condition about reliability of said statement, and DT himself said on that CRT that a statement such as "beam of light" should be looked on a case-by-case basis and not taken as gospel.

Our standards already take into account that the attack is a "light beam" before it even needs to fulfill the requirements:
  • Therefore, lasers/light beams are only accepted as real if they meet, at a minimum, a few of these criteria:
The fourth requirement would be useless if we already assumed the "light beam" to be made of real light. We don't. That's why we have the fourth requirement in place.

A valid case of this would be something like a scientist explaining an attack in detail: "this energy attack is a beam of light and yada yada more info".

A character who has a history of adding flair to his language is not a reliable source, especially when he delivers the statement in a symbolic way such as "a villain shall die by a hero's beam of light" which is not really a matter-of-fact statement that can be relied upon in regards to the composition of the attack (villains are linked to darkness, heroes propagate light, "villain shall die by hero's light", the guy says "headbutt of justice", the issue is obvious here).

Honestly, this discussion should not have continued for 4 pages. This is just trying to skirt the standards based on the flimsiest reasons which ignore basic issues.
 
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AKM sama said:
This is false. This does not satisfy the fourth requirement, which reads:
  • It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source
The fourth requirement has a condition about reliability of said statement, and DT himself said on that CRT that a statement such as "beam of light" should be looked on a case-by-case basis and not taken as gospel.

Our standards already take into account that the attack is a "light beam" before it even needs to fulfill the requirements:
  • Therefore, lasers/light beams are only accepted as real if they meet, at a minimum, a few of these criteria:
The fourth requirement would be useless if we already assumed the "light beam" to be made of real light. We don't. That's why we have the fourth requirement in place.

A valid case of this would be something like a scientist explaining an attack in detail: "this energy attack is a beam of light and yada yada more info".

A character who has a history of adding flair to his language is not a reliable source, especially when he delivers the statement in a symbolic way such as "a villain shall die by a hero's beam of light" which is not really a matter-of-fact statement that can be relied upon in regards to the composition of the attack (villains are linked to darkness, heroes propagate light, "villain shall die by hero's light", the guy says "headbutt of justice", the issue is obvious here).

Honestly, this discussion should not have continued for 4 pages. This is just trying to skirt the standards based on the flimsiest reasons which ignore basic issues.
Click to expand...
This is mate in a few. First, let's ask why is he not reliable?
 
DivineAura44 said:
This is mate in a few. First, let's ask why is he not reliable?
Click to expand...
That’s what I wanna know. It satisfies other requirements but he’s literally saying a scientist would have to explain in detail why it’s made of light. And then saying because a character adds flair to what they say makes them unreliable is such a poor attempt at not accepting it it’s not even funny

honestly, the fact he never brought up the whole flair thing in the other thread shows he’s looking for whatever he can to invalidate it
 
AKM sama said:
This is false. This does not satisfy the fourth requirement, which reads:
  • It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source
The fourth requirement has a condition about reliability of said statement, and DT himself said on that CRT that a statement such as "beam of light" should be looked on a case-by-case basis and not taken as gospel.

Our standards already take into account that the attack is a "light beam" before it even needs to fulfill the requirements:
  • Therefore, lasers/light beams are only accepted as real if they meet, at a minimum, a few of these criteria:
The fourth requirement would be useless if we already assumed the "light beam" to be made of real light. We don't. That's why we have the fourth requirement in place.

A valid case of this would be something like a scientist explaining an attack in detail: "this energy attack is a beam of light and yada yada more info".

A character who has a history of adding flair to his language is not a reliable source, especially when he delivers the statement in a symbolic way such as "a villain shall die by a hero's beam of light" which is not really a matter-of-fact statement that can be relied upon in regards to the composition of the attack (villains are linked to darkness, heroes propagate light, "villain shall die by hero's light", the guy says "headbutt of justice", the issue is obvious here).

Honestly, this discussion should not have continued for 4 pages. This is just trying to skirt the standards based on the flimsiest reasons which ignore basic issues.
Click to expand...
Why is "beam of light hyperbole "
"The villain shall die by the hero's beam of light " doesn't sound even hyperbole , the opponent is the villain, the one who has the attack is the hero [in his perspective] would die [if it landed or the villain doesn't regenerate or block] and beam of light is.. well beam of light
Thus his statement isn't hyperbolic as it merely gives exposition and expalins what's going to happen [in his perspective]thus it's not hyperbole at all
 
It satisfies some of the requirements and has not a single anti-feat at all. So this thread should have been concluded upon since.
Some verses I'm sure light speed attacks has some anti-feat but this has none.

I think it should easily be accepted without any contradictions also.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Considering Mask has been reliable with his other attack descriptions and he’s the creator of the technique, to quote Elizhaa, I believe he’s reliable.
Click to expand...
let me explain what AKM said to the best of my knowledge anyway.

Calling attacks light beam does not satisfy any requirement on the wiki, after the attack is called a light beam it must also be
AKM sama said:
stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source
Click to expand...
hence this
AKM sama said:
Therefore, lasers/light beams are only accepted as real if they meet, at a minimum, a few of these criteria:
Click to expand...
one of the criterias been
stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source
Click to expand...
 
Pain_to12 said:
Calling attacks light beam does not satisfy any requirement on the wiki, after the attack is called a light beam it must also be
Click to expand...
Check past threads it does just not weigh much than when called photons or just light.
Pain_to12 said:
one of the criterias been
Click to expand...
It's consistent enough.

It being called "heroes beam of light" (don't see any hyperbolic statement here).
It doesn't bend.
It doesn't explode.
It doesn't have any anti feat.

So this is enough.
 
Pain_to12 said:
let me explain what AKM said to the best of my knowledge anyway.

Calling attacks light beam does not satisfy any requirement on the wiki, after the attack is called a light beam it must also be
Click to expand...
As of now due to the other CTR it does satisfy it

So "beam OF light" satisfies the 4th requirement

Then we have it being deflected/reflected by a material

That already 2

Then as supporting: it travels on a line and does not bend, does not explode and vaporizes

The only "antifeat" the opposition is bringing up is how mask refers to himself as a hero and his enemy as a villain
 
I'm confused here. It needs to be stated to be consisted of light or photons is the requirement.

His beam is called beam of light... This means it consists of light. Thus meeting that requirement. Is this not how “of” is used?

Puddle of water
Bucket of paint
Ball of hair
Box of crayon
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
As of the most recent LS CRT, I implore you read it, "beam of light" does satisfy a requirement, if it is from a reliable source and not contradicted. So, you are mistaken.
Click to expand...
well i am just repeating what AKM said so u can chat him up

Edit: Checked the light speed page, the accepted CRT you said as not been added, work on that first
 
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