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Hello everyone, hope y'all are doing well. For the history of this thread, the original Tier 1 was nuked because of translation issues while the CRT I created later was paused due to irl issues.
However, I decided it's best to create a new one because the reasons for tier 1 are largely different. This CRT is extremely simple as it has little to no relations with the time travel shinanigans and because WN is very obvious with its wording.
As always, do not make derailing posts that have nothing to contribute to the thread itself.
Do not engage in toxic behavior in anyone!
Tables of Contents
4th Spatial Dimension
So basically there's another spatial dimension besides the regular three. It's mainly used in Spatial Series Magic. In-verse it's called "another dimension":
I declared, and left using 『Shadow Step』 .
Daaamn, this skill is convenient! It’s like moving straight to the target through a different dimension.
Oh, and I fly through that plain using 〈Flight Magic〉. Chapter 44
Corrective ability from the unique skill 『Great Sage』 has been added.
«Due to excellent affinity, it has fused with 『Shadow Step』 and evolved into 『Spatial Transfer』 . Will you bestow this power on Alice O’Bell? [YES]/[NO] » Chapter 63
Thus, I brought along Myormiles and headed towards the Burmund kingdom with “Spatial transfer gate creation”.
This is due to the influence of spatial abilities, distortion cracks started appearing in front of me.
You’re able to move between multiple locations, it’s the upgraded version of “spatial transfer”. After deciding a destination, I can move there in an instant.
Because I can bring along others, it is convenient, but consumers a long of magical energy.
Thinking about it in common sense, manipulating space-time would naturally cost quite a fair bit of energy. Chapter 103
High ranked devils are those who mastered transfer magic. Pulling it off instantly and without a chant was unexpected, but nothing that can’t be dealt with. In the space-time category of abilities, Transfer consumed the most magical energy. Creating a gate and stabilizing space is the safest, and consumes the least magical energy to move. However, what Diablo did just now– transferring without the use of a gate, even when moving by himself–was ten times as costly. And to teleport without the use of a chant… only a handful of high ranked devils could do that. This isn’t an ability usable by just anyone. And the teleportation ability just now, it’s an advanced ability above spatial transfer. Spatial transfer may look instantaneous to the average person, but in the eyes of a master there’s a slight time lag. However teleportation happens literally in an instant, time lag doesn’t occur. It is the pinnacle of the transfer type abilities. This isn’t an ability that could be used in rapid succession. As a counter measurement against it, one should go on the defensive, and wait for the opponent to exhaust himself. Chapter 109
Instant teleportation can be used by many high level devils. Even if he was using predetermined coordinates, it’s still a big deal.
By the way, those who can teleport to any place (even those they haven’t visited) are overwhelmingly high existences. Even among my subordinates only Diablo can do it… probably. It’s not a skill you can use unless you’ve got a spiritual body.
The way it works is: Shadow Step –> Spatial Transfer –> Teleport.
You could also move using magic circles, but the previous three are skills, not magic.
I have been using skills and magic interchangeably so I didn’t even notice, but seems that there is a difference. I mean, Hinata said there was, and she must be right. Spatial transfer requires you to open a door and step into it to travel. It’s not something you can use during combat.
As for Teleportation magic, it instantaneously creates and executes a magic circle allowing for instant travel. It can be used to avoid enemy attacks and such, so those who can use teleport are rather strong.
But since it’s usually only limited to your starting point and a previously visited location, this skill by no means decides the opponent’s skill. Chapter 130
But the author confirms it's the 4th Dimension in the same context as how higher dimensions allow for greater degree of freedom in movement (this also proving it's significance):
[One Word]
The other-dimensional battle has begun!
A 4-dimensional battle freed from the limits of 3 dimensions has now (begun? the line just ends after "now", i can only imagine there was more text but idk lol)
Posted by: Yakitori
January 21, 2014 22 : 07 Admin
(i'm assuming 転移 is teleportation, i believe i've vaguely seen a scan that uses that kanji for it and it makes sense here, correct me if i'm wrong)
Teleportation is dimensional travel, so there might even be 4 dimensions, lol Fuse
January 21, 2014 23 : 56 Source
(The dates were removed in the translation request to make it easier to translate, as they hold little importance to the main content itself)
As for why the "might be", it's because Fuse likes to make the readers do the thinking and have interpretations, so he doesn't say "It must be so" so readers can come up with their theories.
Also, each World-Line also has its own Spatial Dimesnion. Why? Because travelling between world-lines requires different abilities, such as Yog Sothoth (Reading Steiner):
Because she went to the past together with Hinata’s Will, Chloe didn’t taste solitude. And under the tutoring of Hinata, an excellent teacher, she was able to learn all the skills that Hinata had known.
Because of that the foundation was made......
――She awoke the Ultimate Skill 『Space-Time King (YogSothoth)』 ――
Thanks to this ability she was able to recall the future memory. It’s a thing that Chloe from previous iterations was not able to do.
Originally, Hinata’s 『Mathematician』 and 『Usurper』 were unified with 『Absolute Severance』 and 『Infinity Prison』 and she acquired Ultimate Skill 『Hope King (Sariel)』 .
This time, she absorbed the energy from Hinata’s Soul without a problem, so she could remain without being mixed, and Hinata’s soul could be revived in pure form.
What it brought was an absolute power that rules over time and space. It was the awakening of two abilities called Ultimate Skill『Space-Time King (Yog-Sothoth)』 and 『Hope King (Sariel)』 .
Chloe who awoke this ability and obtained an ability to memorize and repeat the time she spent on this moment again and again.
During combat, she was able to start over again after she saw the enemy’s attack.
That absolute superiority Chloe had, made Hero Chloe becomes the strongest existence. Chapter 125
Author’s Note
Explanation time. I wrote it and was confused.
I notice that the consistency was sketchy and I couldn’t write freely when I began to think about the concept of time. Though it almost got mixed up several times, but is it alright?
I pray that there will be no fatal mistakes found in there.
This time Chloe succeeded in moving the World-Line!
Isn’t the World-Line volatility change by about 1%?
By the way, she acquired Reading Steiner too this time!
Chapter 125
Me:
Does a dimension that allow for movement in an extra degree of freedom (allowing one to go to any place in the Universe via it) count as significant?
(it's directly called the 4th Dimension too, not Time)
Imaginary Number Space
So basically, there's another thing in-verse called Imaginary Number Space:
本来、勇者のユニークスキル『無限牢獄』は、対象を永遠の時間、無限の虚数空間に封じ込めるスキルであり、現実世界への干渉を許す程甘い能力ではないのだそうだ。
Originally, the hero's unique skill,『Infinite Prison』was a skill that confined/traps/seals the target in an infinite imaginary number space for eternity, and it was not a weak ability that allowed it to interfere with the real world. Source
Though it does seem strange that the only thing he can do is to communicate telepathically…
It’s not like the skill weakens with time, after all. Being able to even recognize the present and converse with other creatures all seem like example of interference. What’s unusual is Veldora himself here… Chapter 4
(This line is the exact same in both LN and WN, kanji to kanji, thus why I'm using the translation for the LN version as getting both translated separately would be redundant).
«Solution. Unique skill [Endless Prison] has been partly analyzed. I shall present the escape method. It is impossible for flesh to escape. Physical damage wise, thebchance of destroying the prison is 0%. With regards to the imaginary space escape method–the analysis proved impossible. Analysis in identical situation–imprisonment in an [Endless Prison] is necessary for analysis. Therefore, currently this is impossible. The chance of releasing a spiritual body is 1%. Should one prepare a host for the spirit ahead of time, and move there in the process, the success rate increases to 3%. At the moment, this process is similar to reincarnation. Should the affinity with the host be poor, memories and skills will all be reset. End of the report on escape methods» Chapter 4
Doesn’t look more than flimsy film, this [Endless Prison] skill.
But for it to be impervious to physical damage….
There must be some weakness to this absolute defense.
(Did hero take any damage? Any wounds or something?)
(Well asked! Our blows were well watched, and I have landed a few direct hits! But, there was no effect. “Death Calling Winds”, “Black Lighting”, and even “Storm of Destruction”. All are skills that cannot be evaded, and yet no effect! I gave up! It was laughable!!!)
And all other similar babble would end in Veldora’s loud laughter.
Unique skill [Endless Prison] was definitely used to cover her body, if all outside interference is negated, no shield is necessary.
What a useful skill! Unique skill [Certain Severance]. Unique skill [Endless Prison]. If you combine these two, wouldn’t you be essentially invincible. Chapter 4
Since it's infinite, it's also significant in size. Also, this shouldn't be confused with Rimuru's Imaginary (Number) Space as Rimuru's version is an upgrade:
Imaginary Room... A dimension made to isolate any and all targets. The upgraded version of 『Stomach』 ＋ 『Isolate』 .
Chapter 199
And because while this Imaginary Number Space is bound by Time, Rimuru's version is not (and it's specifically MADE by Ciel):
《This is the End of the World. It could also be referred to as the “End of Time and Space”. As for Veldora, he was isolated inside the 『Imaginary Space』 and completely protected, so please rest assured.》 Chapter 248
Actually, my ‘imaginary space’ can preserve things in it perfectly as it is not ruled by time but we’re not talking about that right now. Rimuru's Elegant Escape Plan - Part 6
Also, as shown above, Rimuru had spatial type abilities, but h didn't use them to get Veldora out of the Imaginary Number Space. That can only mean that he's incapable of doing so as both are separate axes unrelated to each other.
So there's a Universe that, aside from its 3 regular spatial axes, also has an infinite Imaginary Number space (something that extends on different axes, and also significant).
It has no extension in the real world (real number space). But it's a part of the Universe as a whole as it's encompassed by the Time axis.
Some super strong beings can seal targets (3-D themselves) inside this space.
When a target is sealed there, it's as if they're erased from the universe entirely in the eyes of regular people that receive 3D.
Those super strong beings can also move in and out of this space to make themselves impervious to any attack.
And this ability of theirs is currently accepted as Dimensional Manipulation (moving in and out of different axes).
So what Dimensionality does the universe get? 5D (+1D) or 7D (spatial dimensions x 2 + Time)?
Isolates the target from the "real world" (real-number space).
Going by the lesser interpretation, it's a +1D.
You can't use Spatial abilities to go to and fro.
Conclusion: World-Line is 1-C (6-D).
Additional Note:
Soooo there were previously arguments that Yuuki didn't destroy everything AS a space-time continuum but IN the space-time continuum (difference between Low 2-C and 3-A) based on this translation.
Well, said member got demoted for using MTL and Seiji confirmed recently that it's AS a space-time continuum.
Combined attack (Diablo, Milim, Guy, True Dragons, Ramiris, and a lot more): 1-C x2 minimum (said by Rimuru to be capable of destroying the world which includes at least more than one World-Line based on the author's words).
Beelzebub: 1-C (absorbed the combined attack)
Rimuru: 1-C x infinite (created imaginary space which is infinite in comparison to the energy required to create the world that cannot fill the imaginary space).
Here is a blog for the cosmology to be uploaded once this CRT is accepted:
Combined attack (Diablo, Milim, Guy, True Dragons, Ramiris, and a lot more): 1-C x2 minimum (said by Rimuru to be capable of destroying the world which includes at least more than one World-Line based on the author's words).
Beelzebub: 1-C (absorbed the combined attack)
Rimuru: 1-C x infinite (created imaginary space which is infinite in comparison to the energy required to create the world that cannot fill the imaginary space).
Combined attack (Diablo, Milim, Guy, True Dragons, Ramiris, and a lot more): 1-C x2 minimum (said by Rimuru to be capable of destroying the world which includes at least more than one World-Line based on the author's words).
Beelzebub: 1-C (absorbed the combined attack)
Rimuru: 1-C x infinite (created imaginary space which is infinite in comparison to the energy required to create the world that cannot fill the imaginary space).
Using a whole offhand WoG to justify a tier 1 upgrade ain’t it chief. it’s still a “might be” or a not well thought of and unelaborate thing. This type of WoG is explicitly disallowed
Regarding direct information from the author/creator of a character: We do not use statements from them that are phrased in an uncertain, uncaring, and/or unspecific manner, such as "Could be", "Maybe", "Probably", "Possibly" etcetera. Brief or vague answers to fan-questions via social media are also generally disregarded, whereas more elaborate explanations in serious interviews are usually considered more reliable.
Using a whole offhand WoG to justify a tier 1 upgrade ain’t it chief. it’s still a “might be” or a not well thought of and unelaborate thing. This type of WoG is explicitly disallowed
This wasn't really a question itself but more so just the author talking about 4th dimension itself.
For all that we know, only WoG that already reaffirms what exists in the main source material is valid, especially if it's not asked about in a battleboarding-esque way of pestering people and as long as it doesn't contradict anything else.
There's a difference between an author saying "This ability generates flames reaching millions of degrees" and a user asking "Does this technique produce flames that reach millions of degrees" more or less.
Hello everyone, hope y'all are doing well. So I asked this question to some staff in discord but some is not enough, thus comes this question thread. So there's this review section on the Japanese site (syosetu) which allows author-reader interaction to an extent. Now the author of TenSura...
vsbattles.com
And in the same thread Agnaa affirmed all of them (this WoG was given in those examples) are usable.
Also, it's not mentioning anything magically new. It's elaborating on a Pre-Established concept of "different Dimesnion for spatial travel" (as shown in scans) and simply calling it the 4th dimension.
As for the "may", I already elaborated on that in the OP
As for why the "might be", it's because Fuse likes to make the readers do the thinking and have interpretations, so he doesn't say "It must be so" so readers can come up with their theories.
The author just loves leaving stuff to the readers' imagination. The "may be" is for "maybe it exists", and that maybe is confirmed inside the novel by Rimuru using it.
Hello everyone, hope y'all are doing well. So I asked this question to some staff in discord but some is not enough, thus comes this question thread. So there's this review section on the Japanese site (syosetu) which allows author-reader interaction to an extent. Now the author of TenSura...
vsbattles.com
And in the same thread Agnaa affirmed all of them (this WoG was given in those examples) are usable.
Also, it's not mentioning anything magically new. It's elaborating on a Pre-Established concept of "different Dimesnion for spatial travel" (as shown in scans) and simply calling it the 4th dimension.
As for the "may", I already elaborated on that in the OP
The author just loves leaving stuff to the readers' imagination.
Well I don't think that's particularly important for the WoG even if you interpret may that way. It still gets encompassed by that note, since it's about WoG in general. I don't particularly care what Agnaa said in these more verse specific cases because for all I care he might not see it as very applicable on this wiki nor actually believe his statements here are for the wiki itself (or we might be missing context or he might be missing context as well). He would have to come on the thread himself (and how it applies to this thread) and clarify for what he says to matter as a justification.
Well I don't think that's particularly important for the WoG even if you interpret may that way. It still gets encompassed by that note, since it's about WoG in general. I don't particularly care what Agnaa said in these more verse specific cases because for all I care he might not see it as very applicable on this wiki nor actually believe his statements here are for the wiki itself (or we might be missing context or he might be missing context as well). He would have to come on the thread himself (and how it applies to this thread) and clarify for what he says to matter as a justification.
Well I don't think that's particularly important for the WoG even if you interpret may that way. It still gets encompassed by that note, since it's about WoG in general. I don't particularly care what Agnaa said in these more verse specific cases because for all I care he might not see it as very applicable on this wiki nor actually believe his statements here are for the wiki itself (or we might be missing context or he might be missing context as well). He would have to come on the thread himself (and how it applies to this thread) and clarify for what he says to matter as a justification.
Well sure, WoG in general can hold to that rule, but specific cases are always there as you've said. I'm fine with Agnaa coming here personally to clarify things if he's willing.
Also, something of note:
The translation by Seiji talks about Teleportation first and 4D later, which I'm sure is to make it easier to read and more natural English, but in the raws the "there may be 4D" comes first and "After all, Teleportation is dimensional travel" comes later.
Well sure, WoG in general can hold to that rule, but specific cases are always there as you've said. I'm fine with Agnaa coming here personally to clarify things if he's willing.
I pinged him on discord about it but there's also a good chance he just doesn't bother to come since he has other things to do ig. Would be pretty unfortunate if he didnt.
Also, something of note:
The translation by Seiji talks about Teleportation first and 4D later, which I'm sure is to make it easier to read and more natural English, but in the raws the "there may be 4D" comes first and "After all, Teleportation is dimensional travel" comes later.
So yeah, he basically supposes there is 4D first, then says "because there is that...".
I declared, and left using 『Shadow Step』 .
Daaamn, this skill is convenient! It’s like moving straight to the target through a different dimension.
Oh, and I fly through that plain using 〈Flight Magic〉. Chapter 44
teleportation can be used by many high level devils. Even if he was using predetermined coordinates, it’s still a big deal.
By the way, those who can teleport to any place (even those they haven’t visited) are overwhelmingly high existences. Even among my subordinates only Diablo can do it… probably. It’s not a skill you can use unless you’ve got a spiritual body.
The way it works is: Shadow Step –> Spatial Transfer –> Teleport.
You could also move using magic circles, but the previous three are skills, not magic.
I have been using skills and magic interchangeably so I didn’t even notice, but seems that there is a difference. I mean, Hinata said there was, and she must be right. Spatial transfer requires you to open a door and step into it to travel. It’s not something you can use during combat.
As for Teleportation magic, it instantaneously creates and executes a magic circle allowing for instant travel. It can be used to avoid enemy attacks and such, so those who can use teleport are rather strong.
But since it’s usually only limited to your starting point and a previously visited location, this skill by no means decides the opponent’s skill. Chapter 130
It's pretty blatantly like Wormholes (which requires 4D). The WoG is only used as a confirmation. Clarifies that "different Dimension" here means "another spatial axis" ¯\(ツ)/¯
It's pretty blatantly like Wormholes (which requires 4D). The WoG is only used as a confirmation. Clarifies that "different Dimension" here means "another spatial axis" ¯\(ツ)/¯
and this isn't a case of going through an overlapping dimension to reach another destination right?
Better off not even using the WoG since it also suggests that this isn't necessarily an extra axis deal if it's up to interpretation like that. It'd be like a character using a knife in the story but then the author said "could be a knife or an axe". (basically the WoG could be just as harmful as it is beneficial to your interpretation)
At least there isn't anything in the verse suggesting so.
This was the only detailed explanation we got on Spatial Movement.and how it works. So I guess in the absense of contradictory evidence, we'd assume it's not overlapping.
Rest is just about how higher levels of spatial movement have less and less time lag due to immediate magic circle execution.
Better off not even using the WoG since it also suggests that this isn't necessarily an extra axis deal if it's up to interpretation like that. It'd be like a character using a knife in the story but then the author said "could be a knife or an axe". (basically the WoG could be just as harmful as it is beneficial to your interpretation)
Well, the WoG does mention the 4th dimension, and I'm sure we're familiar with how Wormholes work requiring 4D space scientifically. If we know what the author had in mind while working on Spatial Movement (which by this we know), it's less poison and more beneficial.
Rimuru: 1-C x infinite (created imaginary space which is infinite in comparison to the energy required to create the world that cannot fill the imaginary space).
First one is quite strange, I'm not sure how seriously to take it. For second one, I've heard something about it but don't have detailed information, I need to do some research. Lastly scaled characters are completely arbitrary, I've been saying something about it for the last few threads but nobody listens anyway.
First one is quite strange, I'm not sure how seriously to take it. For second one, I've heard something about it but don't have detailed information, I need to do some research. Lastly scaled characters are completely arbitrary, I've been saying something about it for the last few threads but nobody listens anyway.
First one is quite strange, I'm not sure how seriously to take it. For second one, I've heard something about it but don't have detailed information, I need to do some research. Lastly scaled characters are completely arbitrary, I've been saying something about it for the last few threads but nobody listens anyway.
Is there a difference between imaginary part and imaginary number? Because our teacher says there is. I mean in $5+3i$ , is it right to say the imaginary part is $3i$ and imaginary number is $3$?...
Is there a difference between imaginary part and imaginary number? Because our teacher says there is. I mean in $5+3i$ , is it right to say the imaginary part is $3i$ and imaginary number is $3$?...
math.stackexchange.com
There's also a QnA thread of @AlexSamDen and Agnaa talking about it. There are two interpretations, either 1D or 4D (2D and 3D Imaginary Number Space/INS isn't a thing due to how math works), but I took the lower interpretation as there's no proof of this INS being 4D/containing 4D stuff.
As for the first one, it's just how Wormholes work.
And it seems the author is going by that interpretation given he says the 4th dimension exists since Teleportation (Dimensional Movement, in this context as spatial Dimensions) exists. Scientifically too, you can't connect two points in 3D space without bending the plane in the 4th dimension. And while this is fiction, the author seems to be following the scientific interpretation.
Well sure, WoG in general can hold to that rule, but specific cases are always there as you've said. I'm fine with Agnaa coming here personally to clarify things if he's willing.
Also, something of note:
The translation by Seiji talks about Teleportation first and 4D later, which I'm sure is to make it easier to read and more natural English, but in the raws the "there may be 4D" comes first and "After all, Teleportation is dimensional travel" comes later.
So yeah, he basically supposes there is 4D first, then says "because there is that...".
the second sentence ending in だし reads as a "because"
you may often see the same with から where they will explain a consequence FIRST and then the reasoning after, if it was translated literally to english, it would be like "[effect], [cause] because" which is unnatural in english hence why i swapped them
the second sentence ending in だし reads as a "because"
you may often see the same with から where they will explain a consequence FIRST and then the reasoning after, if it was translated literally to english, it would be like "[effect], [cause] because" which is unnatural in english hence why i swapped them
So basically it's translated like that to sound more natural right? Japanese is weird with grammar compared to English , but I guess that's normal for any two completely different languages
vsbattles.fandom.com
but I agree on this
