Yeah, Pralaya's High 1-A+ key would remain. As for the second point, i think you're right. I mistakenly believed that an impersonal, a pre-form of a tier 0 God would be enough for High 1-A+ type 2. Then, True State Pralaya would best suit the type 2, indeed. Anyway, do you agree with the rest?
Yeah. The only thing I disagreed with was Pralaya (Mahapralaya) being Type 1. She should be Type 2. The Voice being Type 1 is fine though. Not even sure why Pralaya had both in the first place. Since the Creator was originally supposed to be Type 1 in DeMatteis cosmology.
Personally I dont know why Presence's voice should be treated as seperate character
Not as a "separate character," but as God acting in an impersonal, pre-form way in His act of creation. The name "Presence" is just an umbrella that encompasses the terms of God, Voice, or Yahweh. In essence, they are the same, but appears and functions differently if I may say so.
Non-duality, in this context, also means that nothing is separate from the Void. In strict terms, nothing can truly exist apart from it. As you said, the Overvoid is an indivisible whole. However, it doesn't necessarily prevents expressions, manifestations, or functions to exist within it. Across Morrison, DeMatteis, and Vertigo, the Void represents the true extent of God, within which both existence and non-existence are encompassed. Concepts such as creation, beings, and events are part of God’s self-expression or dream, meaning they arise within Him without forcefully violating His non-duality. Most importantly, Grant Morrison doesn’t always strictly adhere to real-world science or philosophy: he draws great inspiration from them, incorporating elements into his own cosmology.
Let's wait until the 42 hours have passed, but for now. Most agree with everything in the OP, except the initial suggestion for Pralaya.
What about vertigo void? On dematteis and grant Morrison merge l agree.
It becomes one with Overvoid
The profiles of The Overvoid and The Void will be merged. In the profile of The Presence, the different Tier 0 keys (the Creator, the Divine Presence, the Unknowable) will be merged together and replaced with what we've discussed. Here's how the tiers in the profile of The Presence might looks like:
There is no problem with merging the Source and the Presence
Didnt Elizio say Overvoid = Void = Presence?
So, is “Key: The Voice” for the Source?
To clarify, the true form of the Source and the Presence = Overvoid/Void, they are identical. The profiles of The Source and that of The Presence should stay sepate as they are too well known, but have multiple keys on both profiles representing their manifestations and another one representing the true Godhood.
Nope. It's for God acting in an impersonal, pre-form way when He brought light by uttering the words: "Let there be light!"
They are the same. The Presence is creator god of one creation .
SureI think that Elizio's current suggested changes here can likely be applied now.
Can you link to the pages that you need unlocked here please? And should we turn any page into a redirect link in conjunction?
This
Type 2 is greater than Type 1. So yes, Pralaya true form being Type 2 means she's stronger than the Voice (Type 1). Unless this was changed in a recent thread. That has always been the case between the two types of High 1-A+ since it was established.
Yeah. And note that the profiles of The Void (Vertigo) and The Overvoid should be merged.
Gaiman didn't say anything relevant here, except that he didn't know. Even DeMatteis was unaware of the existence of Overvoid when questioned about it in the past. Yet, the Void, Void outside Creation, Void Beyond All Voids, Overvoid are different names of the same expense of nothingness and is frequently associated with God.
What l am trying to say is the vertigo void cannot be the same as the rest since in the story it is not treated as the ultimate void. It is not also the presence. Overvoid and dematteis void can be merged together l have no issue but l don't agree with vertigo's
I have unlocked all of those pages now. Tell us here when the revisions here have been finished.
That is fine with me. You can turn "The Void (Vertigo)" into a redirect link if you wish.
Hmm. Maybe we should not turn that page into a redirect link after all then?
Can you elaborate more ? How the Void (Vertigo) isn't treated as the same as the Overvoid or God ?
Hmm. Maybe we should not turn that page into a redirect link after all then?
This vertigo void is of a sunyata concept. Whereby God achieves enlightenment by removing all stimulus including the molecules in the universe. But in overture it is not supreme as there is another greater void called the true darkness beyond everything to which all creation will return to. Overvoid(Morrison's) and Dematties God are the supreme beings in there respective stories and continuities. Even though the vertigo void can have the same attributes it is not supreme hence has to be disqualified.
The unknownable who can be equal to overvoid and divine presence can be referenced but not really found in black orchid. Here forment and moment represent of wuji chaos and order and come from even a greater void of which birthed them.
Yes the true darkness is mother night. If there is a continuity merge the 3 primordial darkness or unconscious state of God could be equal.
Yeah, I tried to find the scans for it back then
It's from issue 11 of Black Orchid (1993). That said, you guys are making this more complicated than it should be by mentioning and adding all of these characters to the thread. Foment and Moment are not even that relevant. I think they appear for like a single issue or two and that's about it. At best, this just upgrades Chaos and Order.
