Make Anos Great Again (MAGA) - Some minor additions/upgrades

[ThienDe01]

Opening remarks: I wish everyone a happy, joyful, and successful New Year.
Here are some minor additions/upgrades and some "wanks" that I've come up with.

Additions/Upgrades​

Spell​

• Nonexistent Physiology - Type 1 (Limited):<Lynel> and <Najira> erase the user's existence to help them become invisible to others.
• Free Movement:<Bik Inni> allows users to run on water.

Anos Voldigoad​

• Resistance Magma Manipulation: Anos emerged from the lava-filled volcano unharmed by the lava.
• Nonexistent Physiology - Type 1 (Limited): <Lynel> and <Najira> erase the user's existence to help them become invisible to others.
• Platform Creation, Darkness Manipulation: Anos created staircases in the air using darkness to ascend to the "Moon of Creation".
• Free Movement: <Bik Inni> allows users to run on water.
• Instinctive Action: Anos instinctively protected his mother even before he was born; Anos can act even while he is asleep.
• Absorption: Anos absorbed Graham's source.
• Flight Speed Infinite: Anos continuously channels magical power into <Fless> to increase its flying speed, and since Anos has endless magical power, he can have infinite flying speed.

Avos Dilhevia​

Avos Dilhevia possesses the Magic Eyes of Mauve (presumably due to legends about these eyes spread by the gods 2000 years ago), so Avos will possess the abilities of these eyes.

Mauve Eyes of Destruction: Greater Power Nullification, Invulnerability Negation, Statistics Reduction, Physics Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Information Manipulation (Type 2), Conceptual Manipulation, Immortality Negation (Types 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 8) & Regeneration Negation (High-Godly) (These eyes are capable of permanently destroying Gods (who can revive after they're completely destroyed and regenerate from source destruction) and their Order as well as weaken and destroy Gods authorities as well as their divine weapons. That is the law of nature, the law of magic-the order that makes the world this world. Altering Order, alters the laws of Physics like Gravity. WOG stated that the Order of the gods are the laws of physics WOG stated that the Order of the gods are the laws of physics.Since it can affect order/gods, it would naturally include Revalschned and the Land of Traces, an infinite world made of traces. Traces are data/information and everything in the world have traces, from past to present. Including physical things, combat experience, past events, memories, beings, world-destroying abilities, concepts, laws, etc. By recreating traces of things, Revalschned can recreate said things. It is also possible to modify the traces/data of the past, thereby changing the past itself. Since it can reduce enemies to nothing, this would naturally include the soul and mind, which exist within the same abyss as the Source)

*****​

Wank Bonus Feat​

Divine Sword Roduier​

Divine Sword Roduier has immeasurable attack speed because: Divine Sword Roduier slashed Shin's flesh and caused Shin to bleed, although Shin dodged the slash before it touched his flesh.

Spoiler

The golden flames completed their transformation into the golden Divine Sword Roduier. The blade tore through Shin’s black armor, but he evaded before it reached his flesh. A single piece of paper, accompanied by a slight spattering of blood, fell from the torn armor. It was the page Reno had given Shin two thousand years ago.

*****​

Source of Spirit​

Source of Spirit is Legend/ Lore (Story), and it is the aspect that makes up a spirit.

Spoiler

“Spirits are formed from rumors and legends. In most cases, spirits are born from widespread rumors or famous legends and are fully developed at birth, but this isn’t the case for half-spirit, half-demon children. The spirit source is influenced by the demon half of their body. A newly created, weak rumor forms their source.”
“This was a lie. He lied about the child of the Great Spirit Reno. There was no child born between Reno and Shin, and Misa’s spirit lore was not the order to destroy the Demon King. The legend of Avos Dilhevia is the lore that formed her source.”

Changes in legend will cause the spirits to change as well.

Spoiler

“If Avos Dilhevia were to be replaced by a spirit with the same name, Misa would be able to live in harmony with her spirit heart. Spirits change as their legends and rumors change, so achieving this wouldn’t be impossible. The problem there, however, is that spirits are most influenced by the original lore at the point of their birth.”

Spirits live according to legend, and when the legend ends, the spirit dies.

Spoiler

“They say you’re wilting,” I said.

“Yes, that’s right. I am fading. I will never again resurrect.” “Does that mean your lore has ceased to exist?”

A gentle chuckle echoed through the forest. “It seems there is something I can teach you besides the ways of war,” Migelonov said happily. “If a rumor or legend comes to an end, the spirit born from that lore will pass away. But one more situation can result in a spirit’s death: when that spirit turns against their own lore.”

Spirits lived according to the rumors and legends from which they were born. Just like how Gennul was the Wolf of Hiding and Ennunien was the Great Tree of Learning, all spirits lived their lives accordingly.''

The Spirits will be resurrected if the legends survive.

Spoiler

“Reno...” Shin murmured.

“The mother of all spirits faded away by going against her lore, giving birth to a demon. But the Great Spirit Avos Dilhevia has now regained her original form as a spirit, as the legends foretold.”

Avos Dilhevia was no longer half spirit, half demon. She was a pureblood spirit called Misa.

“And so, there is no reason for the Great Spirit Reno to have faded away at all.”

Reno defying her lore was now a thing of the past. As long as the new lore didn’t fade away, they could revive over and over again.

“M-Mother?”

Spoiler

Spirits: Beings formed of rumors and legends. As long as their lore is remembered, they are unable to die unless they act against those stories.''

=> Source of Spirit is the plot fundamental that governs spirits. (Based on the criteria below)

High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence. Such an aspect could be their place in the narrative, their history, their information (Type 2), their concept, or something else along those lines. For any aspect to qualify, destruction of that aspect must cause erasure of the character in some form, and evidence must exist that the character cannot exist without that fundamental aspect existing as well. In addition, it must not be something that regenerating the body, mind, or soul would ordinarily restore. As such, take care when evaluating Type 3 concepts, and aspects that are not sufficiently expanded upon to make a judgment will not qualify.

*****​

Evansmana AP​

• Heaven Splitter is a hidden art that gathers infinite sword slashes into one.

Spoiler

Lay stood on the roof of the fourth ship, glaring up at the impending solar eclipse. He had Evansmana, the Sword of Three Races, clutched in his hand, the blade glowing with divine light.

He had poured his entire body into Heaven Splitter, the hidden art that gathered infinite sword slashes into one, and tried to cut the sun in half. But the holy sword had only been able to scratch the surface. The eclipse had only been rewound by a fraction, the majority of Evansmana’s power having been depleted as it crossed the sky of destruction.

Spoiler

“Traces make the blade—Heaven Splitter.”

An infinite number of Revalschned’s sword strikes struck my body. I took a large step forward to face them directly.

• Each slash from Evansmana will be superior to the previous one.

Spoiler

“You are capable of recreating traces of the past. Heaven Splitter was indeed what Lay once used. However, his sword grows with every slash, moving towards the future. Every swing surpasses the one before it, making his moves impossible to predict. But your sword merely traces the past.”

• Explain

Spoiler: Explain

• First time using Heaven Splitter:

The first slash has AP of: k (k = a finite value)
The second slash has AP of: k+1 (because the power of slash 2 is greater than slash 1)
The third slash has AP of: k+2 (because the power of slash 3 is greater than slash 2)
[...]
=> The "infinite" slash (P₁) has AP of: countably infinite (ℵ₀)

• Second time using Heaven Splitter:

"The slashes of Evansman when using <Heaven Splitter> for the 2nd time" (P₂) must have AP as "an uncountable infinity (ℵ₁)" because:
"The power of Evansman's slash after using <Heaven Splitter> for the 2nd time" (P₂) must be greater than the power of the "infinite" slash (P₁).
=> P₂ > P₁ = ℵ₀
Cantor's theorem: For every cardinal number κ, we always have 2^κ > κ. Therefore, a value certainly greater than ℵ₀ is 2^ℵ₀ (2^ℵ₀ is the mathematical definition of ℵ₁).

---

Agree:

• Free Movement, Resistance Magma Manipulation, Platform Creation, Darkness Manipulation, Instinctive Action: BreezeHM, Tatsumi504, Ruler_Star_Kuma, Dog3352, TheHyperGuy, Saucy_Jackistan24
• Absorption: BreezeHM, Tatsumi504, Dog3352, TheHyperGuy, Saucy_Jackistan24, Ruler_Star_Kuma
• Divine Sword Roduier has immeasurable attack speed: Dog3352, TheHyperGuy.

Neutral: Dog3352, TheHyperGuy (Evansmana AP)

Disagree:

• Nonexistent Physiology - Type 1 (Limited): Cipher72, Bahaha, BreezeHM, Tatsumi504, Ruler_Star_Kuma, Dog3352, TheHyperGuy, Saucy_Jackistan24, ROZAN-U.
• Avos Dilhevia possesses the Magic Eyes of Mauve: BreezeHM, Tatsumi504, Ruler_Star_Kuma, Saucy_Jackistan24.
• Flight Speed Infinite: Ruler_Star_Kuma, Tatsumi504, Dog3352, TheHyperGuy, Saucy_Jackistan24 .
• Divine Sword Roduier has immeasurable attack speed: Ruler_Star_Kuma (No argument), Tatsumi504, Saucy_Jackistan24 (No argument).
• Source of Spirit = Plot Fndamental: Vietthai96,Theglassman12, BreezeHM, Tatsumi504, Ruler_Star_Kuma, Dog3352, TheHyperGuy, Saucy_Jackistan24, ROZAN-U, Billy390, BestMGQScalerEver
• Evansmana AP: BreezeHM, Tatsumi504, Ruler_Star_Kuma, Saucy_Jackistan24, ROZAN-U.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

You did not cook.

 

[BreezeHM]

Spell​

• Nonexistent Physiology - Type 1 (Limited):<Lynel> and <Najira> erase the user's existence to help them become invisible to others.

Not NEP, just invisibility and Stealth Mastery

• Nonexistent Physiology - Type 1 (Limited): <Lynel> and <Najira> erase the user's existence to help them become invisible to others.

Same as above

• Flight Speed Infinite: Anos continuously channels magical power into <Fless> to increase its flying speed, and since Anos has endless magical power, he can have infinite flying speed.

This needs to be proven by feats, wiki doesn't accept this type of logic. Not to mention, just because someone has infinite of their power source, doesn't mean they can output infinity.

Avos Dilhevia​

Avos Dilhevia possesses the Magic Eyes of Mauve (presumably due to legends about these eyes spread by the gods 2000 years ago), so Avos will possess the abilities of these eyes.

This was a mistranslation, it's supposed to just be the regular magic eyes of destruction.

Wank Bonus Feat​

Divine Sword Roduier​

Divine Sword Roduier has immeasurable attack speed because: Divine Sword Roduier slashed Shin's flesh and caused Shin to bleed, although Shin dodged the slash before it touched his flesh.

Spoiler

The golden flames completed their transformation into the golden Divine Sword Roduier. The blade tore through Shin’s black armor, but he evaded before it reached his flesh. A single piece of paper, accompanied by a slight spattering of blood, fell from the torn armor. It was the page Reno had given Shin two thousand years ago.

Volume?

Source of Spirit​

Source of Spirit is Legend/ Lore (Story), and it is the aspect that makes up a spirit.

Spoiler

“Spirits are formed from rumors and legends. In most cases, spirits are born from widespread rumors or famous legends and are fully developed at birth, but this isn’t the case for half-spirit, half-demon children. The spirit source is influenced by the demon half of their body. A newly created, weak rumor forms their source.”
“This was a lie. He lied about the child of the Great Spirit Reno. There was no child born between Reno and Shin, and Misa’s spirit lore was not the order to destroy the Demon King. The legend of Avos Dilhevia is the lore that formed her source.”

Changes in legend will cause the spirits to change as well.

Spoiler

“If Avos Dilhevia were to be replaced by a spirit with the same name, Misa would be able to live in harmony with her spirit heart. Spirits change as their legends and rumors change, so achieving this wouldn’t be impossible. The problem there, however, is that spirits are most influenced by the original lore at the point of their birth.”

Spirits live according to legend, and when the legend ends, the spirit dies.

Spoiler

“They say you’re wilting,” I said.

“Yes, that’s right. I am fading. I will never again resurrect.” “Does that mean your lore has ceased to exist?”

A gentle chuckle echoed through the forest. “It seems there is something I can teach you besides the ways of war,” Migelonov said happily. “If a rumor or legend comes to an end, the spirit born from that lore will pass away. But one more situation can result in a spirit’s death: when that spirit turns against their own lore.”

Spirits lived according to the rumors and legends from which they were born. Just like how Gennul was the Wolf of Hiding and Ennunien was the Great Tree of Learning, all spirits lived their lives accordingly.''

The Spirits will be resurrected if the legends survive.
=> Source of Spirit is the plot fundamental that governs spirits. (Based on the criteria below)

None of this is plot as a fundamental aspect.

Evansmana AP​

• Heaven Splitter is a hidden art that gathers infinite sword slashes into one.

• Each slash from Evansmana will be superior to the previous one.

Spoiler

“You are capable of recreating traces of the past. Heaven Splitter was indeed what Lay once used. However, his sword grows with every slash, moving towards the future. Every swing surpasses the one before it, making his moves impossible to predict. But your sword merely traces the past.”

• Explain

Spoiler: Explain

• First time using Heaven Splitter:

The first slash has AP of: k (k = a finite value)
The second slash has AP of: k+1 (because the power of slash 2 is greater than slash 1)
The third slash has AP of: k+2 (because the power of slash 3 is greater than slash 2)
[...]
=> The "infinite" slash (P₁) has AP of: countably infinite (ℵ₀)

• Second time using Heaven Splitter:

"The slashes of Evansman when using <Heaven Splitter> for the 2nd time" (P₂) must have AP as "an uncountable infinity (ℵ₁)" because:
"The power of Evansman's slash after using <Heaven Splitter> for the 2nd time" (P₂) must be greater than the power of the "infinite" slash (P₁).
=> P₂ > P₁ = ℵ₀
Cantor's theorem: For every cardinal number κ, we always have 2^κ > κ. Therefore, a value certainly greater than ℵ₀ is 2^ℵ₀ (2^ℵ₀ is the mathematical definition of ℵ₁).

---

So many things wrong with this, but in the first place, Heaven Splitter does not actually gather infinite sword slashes into one.


Everything else is fine.

 

[Cipher72]

Nonexistent Physiology - Type 1 (Limited):<Lynel> and <Najira> erase the user's existence to help them become invisible to others.

How is this NEP ?
Looks like invisibility ngl

• First time using Heaven Splitter:

The first slash has AP of: k (k = a finite value)
The second slash has AP of: k+1 (because the power of slash 2 is greater than slash 1)
The third slash has AP of: k+2 (because the power of slash 3 is greater than slash 2)
[...]
=> The "infinite" slash (P₁) has AP of: countably infinite (ℵ₀)

• Second time using Heaven Splitter:

"The slashes of Evansman when using <Heaven Splitter> for the 2nd time" (P₂) must have AP as "an uncountable infinity (ℵ₁)" because:
"The power of Evansman's slash after using <Heaven Splitter> for the 2nd time" (P₂) must be greater than the power of the "infinite" slash (P₁).
=> P₂ > P₁ = ℵ₀

Did he swing infinite times and does it carry over ?

making his moves impossible to predict.

Also it looks like it's talking about mastery and not power. Anyways feel free to correct me since I don't know the context.

 

[ThienDe01]

Not NEP, just invisibility and Stealth Mastery

These two spells make them invisible by erasing their existence (erased existence = non-existence, so I think it's NEP).

This needs to be proven by feats, wiki doesn't accept this type of logic. Not to mention, just because someone has infinite of their power source, doesn't mean they can output infinity.

The ability to infuse more magic power to increase speed has been demonstrated.

Anos himself possesses unlimited magic power, so infusing unlimited magic power into him will allow him to fly at unlimited speed. This logic is consistent with what has been shown in the story.

This was a mistranslation, it's supposed to just be the regular magic eyes of destruction.

Oh, I just checked the web browser again, and the purple eyes are referring to Anos.

Volume?

Volume 4 Act 2 Chap 68

None of this is plot as a fundamental aspect.

Can you tell me the reason?

So many things wrong with this, but in the first place, Heaven Splitter does not actually gather infinite sword slashes into one.

Oops, I accidentally deleted the scan while adjusting the spoiler box. I'll add it back right away.

 

[ThienDe01]

How is this NEP ?
Looks like invisibility ngl

These two spells make them invisible by erasing their existence (erased existence = non-existence, so I think it's NEP).

Did he swing infinite times and does it carry over ?

Lay only needs to strike once, and his opponent will be struck multiple times in an instant without Lay even having to swing his sword.

Spoiler

The light of Evansmana pierced through the thin layer of Beno Ievun and opened a hole in Avos Dilhevia’s body. She was immediately wrapped in white light.

“...Heaven Splitter.”

In the span of a single breath, countless blades of light sliced Avos Dilhevia’s body. Slashes struck her one after another without the sword being swung, severing her fate. That was the first hidden art of the Sword of Three Races: Heaven Splitter.

Avos Dilhevia was enveloped in a divine light. That light was split in half by the sword’s hidden art, forming two orbs of light that blinked like the stars.

“I release you from your sorrowful fate as the Demon King of Tyranny. The Sword of Three Races taught me that.”

 

[Cipher72]

These two spells make them invisible by erasing their existence (erased existence = non-existence, so I think it's NEP).

As in literally erasing their existence or flowery stuff.

Lay only needs to strike once, and his opponent will be struck multiple times in an instant without Lay even having to swing his sword.

Can countless be substituted for Infinite ?

making his moves impossible to predict.

Also it looks like it's talking about mastery and not power. Anyways feel free to correct me since I don't know the context

What about this ?

 

[Tatsumi504]

Divine Sword Roduier has immeasurable attack speed because: Divine Sword Roduier slashed Shin's flesh and caused Shin to bleed, although Shin dodged the slash before it touched his flesh

No, Shin was just fast enough to evade before the sword could reach his flesh. There's even a calc for it

 

[Bahaha]

These two spells make them invisible by erasing their existence (erased existence = non-existence, so I think it's NEP).

Any more information on those spells? Because "erased their existence" to sneak up on someone is NOT justifiable grounds for something like NEP.

Spoiler

“You are capable of recreating traces of the past. Heaven Splitter was indeed what Lay once used. However, his sword grows with every slash, moving towards the future. Every swing surpasses the one before it, making his moves impossible to predict. But your sword merely traces the past.”

"surpass" does not inherently mean more powerful. A master ninja can surpass a normal person in movement skills without being more powerful. Seeing as "making his moves impossible to predict" is in the same sentence just after a comma, it puts severe doubts to this being an AP feat.

 

[ThienDe01]

literally erasing their existence

They've already shown it.

Can countless be substituted for Infinite

It's possible, and it doesn't really matter much since Lay used <Heaven Splitter>, starting with the infinite number of cuts on the thread, so the result would be the same in subsequent attempts.

What about this ?

Because the God of Traces wields the Evansmana, which is a past version of Lay's Evansmana, the attacks from these Evansmanas are recreated by the God of Traces from the past. Anos is fully aware of how they are unleashed.

 

[ThienDe01]

No, Shin was just fast enough to evade before the sword could reach his flesh. There's even a calc for it

I said Shin dodged the slash from the divine sword. But even though Shin "did" dodge it before it hit his skin, he still bled from the blow. This is immeasurable attack speed when the attack reverses cause and effect (the opponent "did" dodge but was still hit).

 

[ThienDe01]

Any more information on those spells? Because "erased their existence" to sneak up on someone is NOT justifiable grounds for something like NEP.

<Lynel> is a spell that allows the character to become invisible.
The raw mentions that <Lynel> can completely erase their existence.

Spoiler: Raw

言葉の途中で、グラハムが血を吐き、口元を濡らす。

存在を完全に消すほどの＜幻影擬態ライネル＞と＜秘匿魔力ナジラ＞で、二番エッドと四番ゼットが迫り、正面と背後から挟み打ちにした。

グラハムの腹部と胸が、根源殺しの魔剣で貫かれていた。

Spoiler: MTL

In the middle of speaking, Graham coughs up blood and wets his mouth.

With `Phantom Mimicry Lynel'' and `Hidden Magic Najira'' that were strong enough to completely erase their existence, Edd No. 2 and Zed No. 4 approached and attacked them from the front and back.

Graham's abdomen and chest had been pierced by the demon sword that killed the root.

"surpass" does not inherently mean more powerful. A master ninja can surpass a normal person in movement skills without being more powerful. Seeing as "making his moves impossible to predict" is in the same sentence just after a comma, it puts severe doubts to this being an AP feat.

The word "grows" refers to an increase in quantity, so this entire paragraph will be about AP or "speed". Because it increases both stats, Anos cannot predict what Evansmana's AP and speed will be in the future.

 

[ROZAN-U]

<Lynel> is a spell that allows the character to become invisible.
The raw mentions that <Lynel> can completely erase their existence.

Spoiler: Raw

言葉の途中で、グラハムが血を吐き、口元を濡らす。

存在を完全に消すほどの＜幻影擬態ライネル＞と＜秘匿魔力ナジラ＞で、二番エッドと四番ゼットが迫り、正面と背後から挟み打ちにした。

グラハムの腹部と胸が、根源殺しの魔剣で貫かれていた。

Spoiler: MTL

In the middle of speaking, Graham coughs up blood and wets his mouth.

With `Phantom Mimicry Lynel'' and `Hidden Magic Najira'' that were strong enough to completely erase their existence, Edd No. 2 and Zed No. 4 approached and attacked them from the front and back.

Graham's abdomen and chest had been pierced by the demon sword that killed the root.

It's just a METAPHOR for making something invisible.

And mtl isn't allowed

 

[ROZAN-U]

=> Source of Spirit is the plot fundamental that governs spirits.

Waow, another METAPHOR used as literal.

Each slash from Evansmana will be superior to the previous one.

Brother, it's not even talking about evansmana. Anos is talking about lay's ability to improve his swordsmanship with every slash. Evansmana power is not growing infinitely, his swordsmanship is getting better.
"his sword grows with every slash"

 

[Tatsumi504]

I said Shin dodged the slash from the divine sword. But even though Shin "did" dodge it before it hit his skin, he still bled from the blow. This is immeasurable attack speed when the attack reverses cause and effect (the opponent "did" dodge but was still hit).

No, it cut through his armor and skin but Shin moved out of the way before it cut his flesh.

 

[Tatsumi504]

I said Shin dodged the slash from the divine sword. But even though Shin "did" dodge it before it hit his skin, he still bled from the blow. This is immeasurable attack speed when the attack reverses cause and effect (the opponent "did" dodge but was still hit).

No, it cut through his armor and skin but Shin moved out of the way before it cut his flesh.

Additions/Upgrades​

Spell​

• Nonexistent Physiology - Type 1 (Limited):<Lynel> and <Najira> erase the user's existence to help them become invisible to others.

No, it just makes one invisible and magic undetectable. Skilled users can make themselves go unnoticed even Infront of some of the best magic eyes and the core purpose of magic eyes is to reveal the true nature of all things hence it's just a metaphor.

Anos Voldigoad​

• Resistance Magma Manipulation: Anos emerged from the lava-filled volcano unharmed by the lava.

Ok

• Nonexistent Physiology - Type 1 (Limited): <Lynel> and <Najira> erase the user's existence to help them become invisible to others.

No

• Platform Creation, Darkness Manipulation: Anos created staircases in the air using darkness to ascend to the "Moon of Creation".

Ok

• Free Movement: <Bik Inni> allows users to run on water.

Bik Inni should be on the profile already

• Instinctive Action: Anos instinctively protected his mother even before he was born.

Should also add he is capable of acting even while he is asleep

• Absorption: Anos absorbed Graham's source.

It's less that he absorbed it and more that he used his source as a cage to hold Graham's

• Flight Speed Infinite: Anos continuously channels magical power into <Fless> to increase its flying speed, and since Anos has endless magical power, he can have infinite flying speed.

Unfortunately doesn't work that way

Avos Dilhevia​

Avos Dilhevia possesses the Magic Eyes of Mauve (presumably due to legends about these eyes spread by the gods 2000 years ago), so Avos will possess the abilities of these eyes.

This was a mistranslation. Avos doesn't have any of Anos powers that stems from the Voldigoad bloodline and the Lion of Destruction. The rest is fair game.

Source of Spirit​

=> Source of Spirit is the plot fundamental that governs spirits. (Based on the criteria below)

I'd like to see where this goes actually since their lore does affect not only the spirit but individuals (characters in this case) mentioned or related to it.

Evansmana AP​

Uh no. Evansmana as a weapon does constantly grow in power but that statement is referring to Lay's skill as a swordsman (Shin is still the goat though) not to mention that it'll break the scaling if this passes

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

What the hell is this, man.

 

[Legion350]

Assuming the statement about the source is literal this only grants Mid-Godly. Because it says when the legend dies they do. This is like Type 8 immortality and Mid Godly at best.

 

[ThienDe01]

It's just a METAPHOR for making something invisible.

No, it just makes one invisible and magic undetectable. Skilled users can make themselves go unnoticed even Infront of some of the best magic eyes and the core purpose of magic eyes is to reveal the true nature of all things hence it's just a metaphor.

If two people said that, then I think it's a real metaphor.

And mtl isn't allowed

I used MTL because I didn't think the scan results were that important, and my purpose was just to show them more context and similarities between the two versions, but I wouldn't be using it for official scans.

Waow, another METAPHOR used as literal.

I don't know why you consider this a metaphor; I think I've already presented the necessary properties adequately.

Brother, it's not even talking about evansmana. Anos is talking about lay's ability to improve his swordsmanship with every slash. Evansmana power is not growing infinitely, his swordsmanship is getting better.
"his sword grows with every slash"

Uh no. Evansmana as a weapon does constantly grow in power but that statement is referring to Lay's skill as a swordsman (Shin is still the goat though) not to mention that it'll break the scaling if this passes

Spoiler: Raw

「あの男の剣は、それを振るう度に成長する未来へ向かう刃だ。一太刀毎に過去を超えるからこそ、予測がつかぬ。だが、お前の剣はただ過去をなぞるだけだ」

Spoiler: MTL

“That man’s sword is a blade that moves toward a future where it grows stronger every time it is swung. Because each strike surpasses the past, it cannot be predicted. But your sword merely traces the past.”

The raw text clearly states that each slash is stronger than the previous one. This refers to Evansmana's AP, not Lay's combat experience.
I've attached an MTL for reference; I'll probably need to ask for translation assistance if anyone here deems it necessary.

No, it cut through his armor and skin but Shin moved out of the way before it cut his flesh.

The scan only mentions that the divine sword struck the armor and tore it apart, immediately followed by a mention that Shin "dodged" it before it cut through his flesh. This sentence doesn't mention anything about it actually cutting through flesh, only denying it.

In the next sentence, the author states that Shin was bleeding, meaning Shin was indeed struck.

Connecting the events, we get: Divine sword struck Shin -> Armor shattered but not hit his flesh (because Shin dodged) -> Shin bled = his flesh was cut.

This aligns with the immeasurable attack speed as I explained above.

Bik Inni should be on the profile already

It has two abilities listed on its profile: Cloth Manipulation and Surface Scaling. So I'm adding another ability that I've noticed.

Should also add he is capable of acting even while he is asleep

ok

It's less that he absorbed it and more that he used his source as a cage to hold Graham's

This still counts as absorption.

Biological Absorption: The user can absorb other living beings into their own body, often breaking them down into energy or gaining their abilities, power, or memories. Sometimes, people that are absorbed in this manner aren't killed, but merely stored inside the body of the being that has absorbed them.

Unfortunately doesn't work that way

Because Anos didn't need to fly that fast to chase a dragon at this point.
But theoretically, it was still possible because Anos had demonstrated the ability to channel magic to increase his speed.

This was a mistranslation. Avos doesn't have any of Anos powers that stems from the Voldigoad bloodline and the Lion of Destruction. The rest is fair game.

They tricked me with a mistranslation .

I'd like to see where this goes actually since their lore does affect not only the spirit but individuals (characters in this case) mentioned or related to it.

No one has debated this yet.

 

[ThienDe01]

Assuming the statement about the source is literal this only grants Mid-Godly. Because it says when the legend dies they do. This is like Type 8 immortality and Mid Godly at best.

Recreating a fundamental aspect should be HGR, not MGR.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

• Nonexistent Physiology - Type 1 (Limited):<Lynel> and <Najira> erase the user's existence to help them become invisible to others.

No

Anos Voldigoad​

• Resistance Magma Manipulation: Anos emerged from the lava-filled volcano unharmed by the lava.

Sure

Platform Creation, Darkness Manipulation: Anos created staircases in the air using darkness to ascend to the "Moon of Creation".

Sure

• Free Movement: <Bik Inni> allows users to run on water.

Already added for him, just add Bik Inni for those who can use it

• Instinctive Action: Anos instinctively protected his mother even before he was born.

Sure

• Absorption: Anos absorbed Graham's source.

Nah

• Flight Speed Infinite: Anos continuously channels magical power into <Fless> to increase its flying speed, and since Anos has endless magical power, he can have infinite flying speed.

No

Avos Dilhevia​

Avos Dilhevia possesses the Magic Eyes of Mauve (presumably due to legends about these eyes spread by the gods 2000 years ago), so Avos will possess the abilities of these eyes.

Mistranslation

Divine Sword Roduier​

Divine Sword Roduier has immeasurable attack speed because: Divine Sword Roduier slashed Shin's flesh and caused Shin to bleed, although Shin dodged the slash before it touched his flesh.

Nah

Source of Spirit is Legend/ Lore (Story), and it is the aspect that makes up a spirit.
“Spirits are formed from rumors and legends. In most cases, spirits are born from widespread rumors or famous legends and are fully developed at birth, but this isn’t the case for half-spirit, half-demon children. The spirit source is influenced by the demon half of their body. A newly created, weak rumor forms their source.”
“This was a lie. He lied about the child of the Great Spirit Reno. There was no child born between Reno and Shin, and Misa’s spirit lore was not the order to destroy the Demon King. The legend of Avos Dilhevia is the lore that formed her source.”
[/SPOILER]
Changes in legend will cause the spirits to change as well.

Spoiler

“If Avos Dilhevia were to be replaced by a spirit with the same name, Misa would be able to live in harmony with her spirit heart. Spirits change as their legends and rumors change, so achieving this wouldn’t be impossible. The problem there, however, is that spirits are most influenced by the original lore at the point of their birth.”

Spirits live according to legend, and when the legend ends, the spirit dies.

Spoiler

“They say you’re wilting,” I said.

“Yes, that’s right. I am fading. I will never again resurrect.” “Does that mean your lore has ceased to exist?”

A gentle chuckle echoed through the forest. “It seems there is something I can teach you besides the ways of war,” Migelonov said happily. “If a rumor or legend comes to an end, the spirit born from that lore will pass away. But one more situation can result in a spirit’s death: when that spirit turns against their own lore.”

Spirits lived according to the rumors and legends from which they were born. Just like how Gennul was the Wolf of Hiding and Ennunien was the Great Tree of Learning, all spirits lived their lives accordingly.''

The Spirits will be resurrected if the legends survive.

Spoiler

“Reno...” Shin murmured.

“The mother of all spirits faded away by going against her lore, giving birth to a demon. But the Great Spirit Avos Dilhevia has now regained her original form as a spirit, as the legends foretold.”

Avos Dilhevia was no longer half spirit, half demon. She was a pureblood spirit called Misa.

“And so, there is no reason for the Great Spirit Reno to have faded away at all.”

Reno defying her lore was now a thing of the past. As long as the new lore didn’t fade away, they could revive over and over again.

“M-Mother?”

Spoiler

Spirits: Beings formed of rumors and legends. As long as their lore is remembered, they are unable to die unless they act against those stories.''

=> Source of Spirit is the plot fundamental that governs spirits. (Based on the criteria below)

Disagree

 

[Legion350]

Recreating a fundamental aspect should be HGR, not MGR.

The problem is that your statement mentions that they die when the Legend does. So they aren’t recreating the fundamental aspect. It would only be High Godly if they could come back from the source destruction, but your quote disputes this.

 

[ThienDe01]

The problem is that your statement mentions that they die when the Legend does. So they aren’t recreating the fundamental aspect. It would only be High Godly if they could come back from the source destruction, but your quote disputes this.

Ok. But I wasn't upgrading HGR in this topic; I was just using the definition from HGR to demonstrate that Legend is a fundamental aspect.

 

[ROZAN-U]

The raw text clearly states that each slash is stronger than the previous one. This refers to Evansmana's AP, not Lay's combat experience.

Nowhere in the scan it says about evansmana.

"Tha man sword" refers to any sword he uses, grows stronger and his attack also became unpredictable. This clearly refers to lay growth with any sword not evansmana ap.

Something anos has already said before when he fought him.

"Accompanied by rumbling explosions most uncharacteristic of a sword
fight, Lay and I slashed at one another. I increased my strength with every
hit, but Lay showed formidable growth, exceeding new limits with everystrike.
His swordsmanship was fierce; his innate ability was frightening. Perhaps
the match would be settled instantly if I increased my strength past his
capacity to grow, but I wanted to see just how far he could go.

With this much innate talent for sword fighting, he would catch up to any
opponent’s ability within a few exchanges of blows—and surpass them."

I don't know why you consider this a metaphor; I think I've already presented the necessary properties adequately.

You're argument for it being plot is basically story and lore passed among people. It's not literal narration on metaphysical level.

 

[ThienDe01]

Already added for him, just add Bik Inni for those who can use it

I remember this feature was for <KoKo> on the profile, so I'm adding this to <Bik Inni>.

And please state your arguments for the parts you disagree with.

 

[Tatsumi504]

The problem is that your statement mentions that they die when the Legend does. So they aren’t recreating the fundamental aspect. It would only be High Godly if they could come back from the source destruction, but your quote disputes this.

They do come back from even source destruction and this is accepted as HGR already so I don't know why it's even in the OP

 

[Tatsumi504]

You're argument for it being plot is basically story and lore passed among people. It's not literal narration on metaphysical level.

Explain

 

[ThienDe01]

"Accompanied by rumbling explosions most uncharacteristic of a sword
fight, Lay and I slashed at one another. I increased my strength with every
hit, but Lay showed formidable growth, exceeding new limits with everystrike.
His swordsmanship was fierce; his innate ability was frightening. Perhaps
the match would be settled instantly if I increased my strength past his
capacity to grow, but I wanted to see just how far he could go.

With this much innate talent for sword fighting, he would catch up to any
opponent’s ability within a few exchanges of blows—and surpass them."

Your scan not only shows Lay's increased combat experience, but it also indicates an increase in the "power" of each slash, to the point that Anos has to constantly increase his power to fight Lay.
Anos also mentioned this increase in "power" in the raw text I sent.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Your scan not only shows Lay's increased combat experience, but it also indicates an increase in the "power" of each slash, to the point that Anos has to constantly increase his power to fight Lay.
Anos also mentioned this increase in "power" in the raw text I sent.

'but lay showed formidable growth, exceeding new limits with each strike' = talking about the sword and not just lay himself??

what are you talking about

 

[ThienDe01]

'but lay showed formidable growth, exceeding new limits with each strike' = talking about the sword and not just lay himself??

what are you talking about

My comment here is about "increase in strength," and I'm not claiming that increase is specific to Evansmana.
The reason I always talk about Evansmana AP is because it has <Heaven Splitter> - which makes scaling AP the easiest for me. If I were to scale AP for Lay, I would still have to use Evansmana's <Heaven Splitter>.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

GG

 

[ROZAN-U]

Explain

Hearsay among people isn't really a plot

 

[ROZAN-U]

My comment here is about "increase in strength," and I'm not claiming that increase is specific to Evansmana.
The reason I always talk about Evansmana AP is because it has <Heaven Splitter> - which makes scaling AP the easiest for me. If I were to scale AP for Lay, I would still have to use Evansmana's <Heaven Splitter>.

.it's an increase on his own strength. The increase he has on his sword is the swordmanship. And "heaven splitter" is an ability of the sword that cuts fate, it doesn't have increase in AP like that. Neither it would have " infinite AP" based on something hyperbolic like that.

Character with finite power have absolutely ate up consecutive slash of heaven splitter.

His Gaddez transformed into dragon claws that sunk into the cage of Jirasd
and Beno Ievun, piercing the barrier. He then grabbed the lightning-covered
Beno Ievun and used great force to rip it apart.
“Graaah!” he roared.
Lay looked at the Dragon Knight. He was still on one knee with his sword as
his support, but he swiftly grabbed the Sword of Three Races by the source.
“Sword of Three Races, first hidden art—”
The moment Nate slipped out of the magic cage, countless slashes of
Evansmana were ready to greet him.
“Heaven Splitter!”
Thirty consecutive strikes of the sword were released in the span of a single
breath, yet each blow was caught perfectly by Nate’s Gaddez. Lay got to his feet
to deal a follow-up blow using the Sword of Three Races.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Hearsay among people isn't really a plot

What if it affects the people involved/ narrated in it?

 

[ROZAN-U]

What if it affects the people involved/ narrated in it?

Is that enough tho? The plot manipulation page also state the things in narration should be akin to fiction in comparison to the plot governing it.

Spirit are their rumors and lore itself, nor the people who spread rumors are fiction in comparison to it.

 

[Tatsumi504]

I see

 

[ThienDe01]

Please don't lock this thread, I'll be back in about 4 hours from work and will reply to your comments.

 

[ThienDe01]

it's an increase on his own strength.

Assuming what you said is true, that this power increase is Lay's, this would also mean that each of Lay's slashes would still increase AP. And with infinite slashes when using <heaven splitter>, Lay's AP would be infinite.

The increase he has on his sword is the swordmanship

Both my scan and your scan indicate that the progression here is AP. Your scan also says that Anos has to constantly increase his power to fight when Lay's attacks are surpassing previous attacks.
If Lay isn't increasing his power, there's no reason for Anos to increase his power with each attack when the progression is only in combat skills.

And "heaven splitter" is an ability of the sword that cuts fate, it doesn't have increase in AP like that. Neither it would have " infinite AP" based on something hyperbolic like that.

Why can't AP be scaled just because it's a Fate Hax? It's a sword, so of course it will have AP. Even Evansmana's <Heaven Splitter> attack is being used to scale AP in Lay's profile.
Each slash is stronger than the previous one. Why do you think Lay using <Heaven Splitter> wouldn't have that effect? The nature of <Heaven Splitter> is still to slash the opponent with an infinite number of slashes, so there will still be an increase in power after each slash. And because it has gone through an infinite number of slashes, it has infinite AP.
As for the AP increase after each slash, it's not as fancy as I explained its logic. If it were just flowery language, why would Anos increase Lay's power, and why would Anos repeat that each of Lay's attacks was stronger than the previous one when speaking to the God of Traces?

Character with finite power have absolutely ate up consecutive slash of heaven splitter.

Power is finite, but durability can be infinite. They are not contradictory.

 

[ThienDe01]

The plot manipulation page also state the things in narration should be akin to fiction in comparison to the plot governing it.

These are some meanings of the word "fictional"

Fictional: Fictional characters or events occur only in stories, plays, or films and never actually existed or happened.

Fiction: imaginary

Shin didn't want to spread the legend of an imaginary Demon King (Avos Dilhevia). Avos Dilhevia herself did not exist in real history, her existence was entirely shaped by the legends spread by Lay.

Spoiler: Volume 4 Chap 57

He wouldn’t cooperate in spreading the name of an imaginary Demon King, but neither would he stop Kanon from doing so. That was the most that Shin, my loyal retainer, could do.

Spoiler: Volume 4 Chap 57

Stunned, Reno stared at Shin. “Are you going to reincarnate?”

“I must keep my word. Soon, Hero Kanon will begin spreading rumors of a fictional Demon King. I plan on taking my leave before then.”

Spoiler: Volume 4 Chap 57

His eyes unwavering, Kanon kept his eyes on Shin. “Indeed, it would be an insult to have an imposter take his place. I, as well as anyone, know just how mighty and revered the Demon King is. That is why I will atone for the sin of assuming the Demon King’s identity. I shall atone with my own life—as the fictitious Demon King, Avos Dilhevia.”

Therefore, Avos Dilhevia is merely a fictional character in the legend of the fictitious demon king spread by Lay.

 

[Vietthai96]

Just because something is called fiction or imagination doesn't mean it is fundamental narration, plot and affect physical reality. Plot must be independent of mind, or else imagination manifest into reality is just Subjective Reality, Rumor and Lore is mostly dependent on the people who spread them, and they change depends on person to person, so no, this isn't plot