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But that's how it being handled in this site. A simple "I agree/disagree" no reasoning is sufficient.
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Ben 10: Removing Vilgax Attacks and Cosmic Destruction from Mainline Canon [ACCEPTED]
- Thread starter Lonkitt
- Start date
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- #42
That's incredibly wrong
Agreements are straightforward, because the arguments behind the agreement are literally in the OP
Disagreements need to be specified, which Firestorm's were not, including when I asked for evidence of what they were claiming. Firestorm also did not refute my points
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Disagreement with CRT without a reason is ok only for regular members, staff members should give reasoning. Otherwise it'd basically be "yuh/nah".
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Dude, I was just recounting the agreements from previous threads and what was applied. I gave no agree or disagree to the current thread as I was trying to understand the current context. I was not involved in making the previous threads, so that's why I referred to them to elaborate.
I would appreciate that you don't throw shade at me or misrepresent me when I'm voluntarily participating and trying to assist on the matter.
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- #45
I'm not throwing shade. I'm just explaining to another user why I am not counting what you brought up as a disagreement, since initially you were writing your posts as if you disagreed. Of course, you then said you weren't voting at all
Still though, what I'm saying about agreements and disagreements is true
Let's not get off topic please
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Agree with this overall
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You just said that I "ignore the arguments" and didn't "provide the evidence they claim to have refuting said arguments", and "[passed] on the job of explaining."
Again, I was just reiterating past agreements and how they were currently applied. I hadn't refuted any arguments that the games were not part of the Prime Timeline.
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- #48
Either way, let's stay on topic here
Hellformer
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I think I had made it clear that any media alternate to the show should be treated as an alternate timeline by default. But if we have some good enough evidence for why that different medium shares exactly the same events as prime timeline, it would be 100% canon. A good example would be Ben 10 Alien Swarm's events being mentioned in Ben 10 UA (with zero contradictions) without the events taking place in the show. Which means that Ben 10 AS is completely canon to prime timeline.
As far as the CRT is concerned, I agree with Ben 10 VA and CD being not canon to the prime timeline. They should be treated as alternate timelines and can be scaled differently based on their own feats.
GeneralSol16
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And this is what happens when you mess with a verse you do not know.
First of all, the games ARE part of the Cross-Time, being referenced in the show itself.
Next, the head writer of these games have not just been a head writer of the show itself as well, but the games have been written to work under the same narrative and logic of the Prime Timeline, being able to fit in it, even tho not being "Canon", just as everything else written by her.
- https://archive.is/QfIKw
So, the games work under the same logic and powerlevel of the Prime Timeline in a narrative way, and they're are indeed part of the lesser Multiverse.
First of all, the games ARE part of the Cross-Time, being referenced in the show itself.
Next, the head writer of these games have not just been a head writer of the show itself as well, but the games have been written to work under the same narrative and logic of the Prime Timeline, being able to fit in it, even tho not being "Canon", just as everything else written by her.
- https://archive.is/QfIKw
So, the games work under the same logic and powerlevel of the Prime Timeline in a narrative way, and they're are indeed part of the lesser Multiverse.
GeneralSol16
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And what the hell people? Before spamming "Agree FRA", you should wait for those who support the Verse.
If only they were as efficient in other aspects.
If only they were as efficient in other aspects.
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- #52
I watched the shows, but alright, lie about how much I know, I guess
No...?
You're acting like all of the games are connected, which is not the case...did you even read my thread? This is about Vilgax Attacks and Cosmic Destruction specifically. They aren't related to that DS game you're showing off. Please read the OP carefully next time
You're being overly aggressive for someone who's ignoring everything I'm saying and just saying all the games are connected with zero evidence
Calm down
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- #53
Head writers writing something don't mean it's canon btw. There's plenty of writers who write non-canon material for their own series and admit it is non-canon. Other times, they don't even have to admit it and it's obvious by itself that it's non-canon
You'll have to actually address the arguments I've brought up instead of bringing in an unrelated game and insulting me
Hellformer
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He did that because he wasn't the one to propose canonicity CRTs of Ben 10. No need to act so ill-mannered, especially when other people are chill.
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- #55
I was a bit confused by how he was phrasing things initially which is why I reacted the way I did. I understand now that he was just saying what others had brought up though
I'd like to stay on topic though since Firestorm has made his stance clear on not voting
GeneralSol16
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Dude, that game IS Vilgax Attacks.
And the point is that games, as any other media, are part of the multiverse.
That is not the point of that link.
She says that the games a d everything she has written are written in a way that go along with the Prime Timeline, meaning they'd be as powerful as Ben Prime and vice-versa.
Your arguments are about not being part of the Prime Timeline, something that we never said
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- #57
That's Vilgax Attacks on the DS. Completely different game and not the priority. The cosmology page was talking about Vilgax Attacks for consoles, not the DS handheld
So yes, the DS game isn't connected to my arguments here. Also, you still haven't shown me the evidence that all the games connect. One game possibly connecting doesn't mean all games do
Really? Where did she say that? Show me the sauce
Also....even if she did say that, it's just wrong. Did you not read all of the contradictions I wrote about in the OP (both regarding the narrative and clear contradictions to abilities/functions)? Again, I feel like you glossed over what I wrote...
My arguments are about how Vilgax Attacks and Cosmic Destruction shouldn't be considered canon to the mainline multiverse period. That's what this thread is about, removing it from any of the pages involving the show. I even pointed about ability/Omnitrix and Ultimatrix function rules that contradict the main canon
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What does this mean and can this be explained in greater detail?
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OP looks good to, I agree,
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Oh yeah, for those who don't know, none of the things that happen in Vilgax Attacks DS ever occurs in the main versions, which are on consoles like the PS2, PSP, Xbox 360, and Wii. These main versions are what the cosmology page currently references
The DS has a very different plot. Alien X Albedo never shows up in the main version. Using that potential reference in the DS version isn't a sign of canon for Vilgax Attacks
The DS has a very different plot. Alien X Albedo never shows up in the main version. Using that potential reference in the DS version isn't a sign of canon for Vilgax Attacks
GeneralSol16
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Again, you're implying that just because it's a game, it can't be canon.
Like...the link I put there...?
None of them are contradictions, they're literally game mechanics. Azmuth has stated that Quick-Changing is bad for the Omnitrix, and he has never done it so fast, so many times in a so short amount of time.
Xenon isn't Wildvine home planet, and even if it was, Ben couldn't know.
Zanesucksatlife
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This is like saying Super DB heroes should be considered canon because it takes place in DB when it's clear it's non canon:
Can you provide a scan for this ?
Their arguments are, Ben 10 should have game profiles for the Games ,
GeneralSol16
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Sure.
The only way for a staff member (excluding Firestorm and Reiner) to appear in a Ben 10 CRT in the first hour of being up, is if the time has the words ",Downgrade" or "Removal".
We've asked for calcs, revisions, etc for months , but lmao.
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What? No, that's not it at all, why are you creating strawmen here?
I thoroughly explained why Vilgax Attacks and Cosmic Destruction aren't canon...you're just ignoring them. Stop twisting my arguments
Dead link
- Ben has done it that fast. In fact, he did it faster in "Back with a Vengeance"
- They aren't game mechanics if it's literally explained in the cutscene, which is treated like the lore/narrative. Please open the links next time
- Wildvines are born on Xenon too, ergo, it counts as a home world. Also, Ben would definitely know, Secret of the Omnitrix was a pretty damn big event in his life and he's been keeping in touch with Max, his grandfather the greatest plumber of all time, for years. Omniverse makes it so Ben visited Galvan Prime in the past. A friend also recently pointed out to me that he visited the area where Galvan B, where Galvanic Mechamorphs come from (which I feel silly for not mentioning too). Either way, it debunks the idea that Ben during AF has never visited his aliens' homeworlds up until that point
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Let's not get off topic
GeneralSol16
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I could not care less about DB. Maybe the supporters aren't good enough, maybe it's a complete different case, who could it know?
The freaking Link lol
Which would be meaningless, as they would just be the same as Prime's
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- #67
Again, the link is dead
Except it wouldn't because the games aren't canon. They're different continuities with different stories and different backgrounds. Ergo, they scale to their own feats
It's the same thing with how there's a Raimi Trilogy Spidey profile and a Raimi Games Spidey profile. Raimi Games is adapting stuff from the film trilogy, but is clearly set in its own continuity. This really isn't rare...
Zanesucksatlife
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Super dragon ball heroes, along with xenoverse have their own pages, so it can't be a different case.
Your link is broken.
And? Game pages exist, and they're almost identical,
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- #69
The Ben 10 games would definitely differ vastly from the show profiles. Each of the games have notable differences from the shows along with different feats etc.
Plus each game is set in different continuities from each other, so who knows how different they'll ultimately be
Kellex
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Yeah, I agree from what I'm seeing and hearing so far.
Is it not working for you guys? It works for me. Maybe try again?
Zanesucksatlife
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Ahh, icic. (It's been awhile since I even played so I somewhat forgot)
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it works for me as well
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- #73
No dice. Can't open it on my end sadly
Hellformer
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Is the OP arguing that VA and CD are alternate timelines instead of being canon to the prime timeline? Or not even that?
Zanesucksatlife
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This works
Hellformer
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Try this
Zanesucksatlife
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Do you want a screenshot of what it says ?
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nvm hellformer sent it already
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- #79
I'm arguing that VA and CD are in their own continuities. They aren't in the the multiverse or anything like that. They scale to their own feats etc etc
Wait okay I got it now. Here's what she said
See, this is where wording is important. Notice how she said "TRIED to make those stories work within canon AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE" in all caps...That's her saying "I tried my best, but they don't fit completely"
So we really shouldn't treat them as canon. She tried to get them as close as possible, but they aren't canon and had no priority in the writers' room
Zanesucksatlife
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I see that
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