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Yes. I've edited the Void. I'm currently adjusting the Source. After, this thread will be completed.
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Clarifying the True Nature of The Source, The Presence, and The Overvoid (Tier 0 Proposal)
- Thread starter Elizio33
- Start date
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Don’t you think this page should be edit as well? I mean the Power of the Verse section—the explanations only describe Tier 2-C
DC Comics
For detailed information about this franchise, visit the DC Database. DCU. Short for the Detective Comics Universe. DC is a company that publishes many of the most popular comic book characters and franchises, such as Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the JLA, etc. This verse is a comic book...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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@Elizio33Don’t you think this page should be edit as well? I mean the Power of the Verse section—the explanations only describe Tier 2-C
DC Comics
For detailed information about this franchise, visit the DC Database. DCU. Short for the Detective Comics Universe. DC is a company that publishes many of the most popular comic book characters and franchises, such as Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the JLA, etc. This verse is a comic book...
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I've made the changes. I don't know if it meets your expectations, but feel free to improve it if I've missed anything.
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It seems fine to me.
What do the rest of you think?
What do the rest of you think?
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Before this CRT is closed, I need to ask one question, Will the DC Comics Cosmology page be edited, or is a new Cosmology page going to be created in the future?
vsbattles.fandom.com
DC Comics Cosmology
This page is dedicated to outlining the distinctions between DC Comics's different cosmologies. To summarize, the DC Universe has three dominant cosmologies characterized primarily (but not exclusively) by their authors: Grant Morrison, Scott Snyder, James Tynion IV, and Joshua Williamson; J.M...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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I have just changed the justification for The Source to match the most recent information, and the DC cosmology page will also be updated. For the Light, i will add information and scan from The New Gods (2025) #1 and those of The Flash (2025) since the Deep Change is named interchangeably with the Source and the Light.
The Source
Tier: High 1-A | 0
Keys: The Light of Creation | True State
Attack Potency: High Outerverse level (The Light of Creation is the pure, untainted, and incomprehensible principle of existence itself, through which existence was brought into the Great Darkness. Through it, Creation unfolds as an emanated dream extending to the root of Time, underlying all things as a fundamental mathematical principle. From it were born the Energies of Creation shaped and utilized by the Hands to enable the formation of the Multiverse that those within the Greater Omniverse) | Boundless (The Source, in its purest form, is a pre-creational state of absolute potential, existing prior to matter, energy, form, and duality, and underlies both the Light and the Great Darkness. It embodies the zero-point, often envisioned as a white emptiness or a blank page brimming with unrealized potential, identical to the Overvoid, God, or the Unknowable: the non-dual ground of being and the perfect essence and oneness underlying all things. In this state, matter and energy dissolve, returning existence to a condition before creation itself)
The Source
Tier: High 1-A | 0
Keys: The Light of Creation | True State
Attack Potency: High Outerverse level (The Light of Creation is the pure, untainted, and incomprehensible principle of existence itself, through which existence was brought into the Great Darkness. Through it, Creation unfolds as an emanated dream extending to the root of Time, underlying all things as a fundamental mathematical principle. From it were born the Energies of Creation shaped and utilized by the Hands to enable the formation of the Multiverse that those within the Greater Omniverse) | Boundless (The Source, in its purest form, is a pre-creational state of absolute potential, existing prior to matter, energy, form, and duality, and underlies both the Light and the Great Darkness. It embodies the zero-point, often envisioned as a white emptiness or a blank page brimming with unrealized potential, identical to the Overvoid, God, or the Unknowable: the non-dual ground of being and the perfect essence and oneness underlying all things. In this state, matter and energy dissolve, returning existence to a condition before creation itself)
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They are too many errors and missing scans in the DC comics cosmology page .Before this CRT is closed, I need to ask one question, Will the DC Comics Cosmology page be edited, or is a new Cosmology page going to be created in the future?
DC Comics Cosmology
This page is dedicated to outlining the distinctions between DC Comics's different cosmologies. To summarize, the DC Universe has three dominant cosmologies characterized primarily (but not exclusively) by their authors: Grant Morrison, Scott Snyder, James Tynion IV, and Joshua Williamson; J.M...
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This is great, and this CRT can finally be closed
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Yeah. The DC Cosmology page definitely needs a proper revision.
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I wont post anything here since the purpose of this thread is already finished. @Antvasima This thread should be closed
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1.The source is already edited .What about The Source and the DC Cosmology page?
2. Dc cosmology. They need to simply edit few mistakes and add few scans for the cosmology.
Bleed portion is severely lacking . Xearesay knows more about it
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Suggested description for the DC Cosmology blog in accordance with what was agreed upon here:
The Greater Omniverse and the Void
It should be noted that the term “Omniverse” has been used in various ways in recent years. While some stories refer to the Multiverse as the Omniverse, this is distinct from the Greater Omniverse featured in Scott Snyder’s Justice League run.
Beyond the Source Wall and Creation, an infinite number of Multiverses rise and fall across the Void. Each Multiverse serves as a testing ground, allowing life within it to evolve beyond selfishness and ascend toward higher truths. If a Multiverse fails to reach its final evolution, it is returned to the “banks of creation” where it was originally shaped by agents of The Source such as the Hands.
In some material, such as Justice League (2018), the Overvoid is depicted as a space beyond the Multiverse and the Source Wall through which higher beings can travel and interact. It is closer in nature to the Void featured in Mike Carey’s Lucifer (2000) than to the non-dual Overvoid of Grant Morrison’s stories, and can therefore be understood as a manifested aspect of the absolute Overvoid. This interpretation is further supported by the beliefs of the Monks of Klaa in Sandman: Overture, who describe the universe as a distraction within the mind of God during meditation, with ideas and realities drifting across the Void.
Unseen Council
A conceptual designation for a higher order of beings that exist beyond the Multiverse and the Source Wall, largely unseen and unknown to life within Creation. As noted above, the term has been used to describe entities operating on a level of reality that transcends the Sphere of the Gods and the Sixth Dimension, occupying several rungs above them on the cosmic ladder, a hierarchy that ultimately ascends toward the Source of All Things.
Among these higher beings are cosmic agents of the Source, such as the Hands, who shaped its energies to bring about the dawn of Creation across the Void; Chronicler, who records the histories of Multiverses at the end of their lifespans; and the Cosmic Raptor, an envoy of the Hands who sealed Perpetua within the Source Wall.
Light of Creation
The Light of Creation is an omnipresent and fundamental creative force throughout Creation, serving as the primary principle underlying reality.
While some earlier material, such as Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths (2022), appeared to depict the Light as synonymous with the Source, the Presence, or the Overvoid, this was a common misunderstanding. Later stories, such as The Flash (2025), introduce the Deep Change, associating it with the Light and the Source. The Deep Change, described as the “dreamer of all things,” serves as the very root of Time, from which existence emanates as a cosmic dream. It is defined as a mathematical principle underlying all things, rather than God, indicating that the Light is a manifest, active aspect of the Source rather than its purest, pre-creational state.
In this context, all energies that form and sustain the infinite Multiverses of the Greater Omniverse come from The Source in its manifest form.
Great Darkness/Primordial Darkness
In the prelude to Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths, Joshua Williamson reintroduced the concept of the Great Darkness, originally introduced in Alan Moore’s Swamp Thing series, and combined it with the origins of Creation described in Marv Wolfman’s Crisis on Infinite Earths. Williamson specifically references key passages from these works and adapts them into the broader cosmology developed over the years within DC continuity.
In issues #49–50 of Swamp Thing, the Great Darkness is depicted as the opposite of God’s Light, existing before the first Light came into being. Within modern cosmology, the Great Darkness precedes the Light of Creation (God’s Light) and becomes defined as “darkness” only through its interaction with the Light. Before the Light, the Great Darkness was without name, purpose, or self-awareness, a pre-creational void.
The Great Darkness is connected to the Shadowlands, the place to which God cast the Primordial Darkness after bringing forth the Light, and to which individuals such as Alan Scott and Obsidian are metaphysically linked. It also manifests through various aspects or avatars, including Darkseid, Empty Hand, Upside-Down Man, Trigon, and Lucifer, yet it is neither inherently evil nor nihilistic. It exists as a silent, eternal presence, a vast black canvas observing the flickers of Light without interference.
Some interpretations equate the Primordial Darkness with Pralaya or Mother Night, each representing the pre-creational void before Creation and the Light from different mythic or philosophical perspectives. In certain readings, Pralaya corresponds to the Sea of Brahma or as God's Unconscious.
Source/Presence/Overvoid = God
While the Source, the Presence, and the Overvoid are often associated with different parts of DC cosmology, these entities are in fact one transcendent entity when viewed as a whole: the Void beyond all Creations. One God, with each of the three representing the same non-dual, immutable ground of being, existing completely prior and beyond the Great Darkness.
God has appeared in various aspects to lower beings, but in truth it is an unknowable Void, infinite and eternal, where all duality and identity dissolve into unity. All the Creations of the Greater Omniverse sum to zero in comparison.
Some writers refer to this ultimate state of oneness and nothingness as Brahman, the universal spirit, or pure consciousness, all of which are essentially the same as the Source, the Presence, and the Overvoid, just described in different terms.
The Greater Omniverse and the Void
It should be noted that the term “Omniverse” has been used in various ways in recent years. While some stories refer to the Multiverse as the Omniverse, this is distinct from the Greater Omniverse featured in Scott Snyder’s Justice League run.
Beyond the Source Wall and Creation, an infinite number of Multiverses rise and fall across the Void. Each Multiverse serves as a testing ground, allowing life within it to evolve beyond selfishness and ascend toward higher truths. If a Multiverse fails to reach its final evolution, it is returned to the “banks of creation” where it was originally shaped by agents of The Source such as the Hands.
In some material, such as Justice League (2018), the Overvoid is depicted as a space beyond the Multiverse and the Source Wall through which higher beings can travel and interact. It is closer in nature to the Void featured in Mike Carey’s Lucifer (2000) than to the non-dual Overvoid of Grant Morrison’s stories, and can therefore be understood as a manifested aspect of the absolute Overvoid. This interpretation is further supported by the beliefs of the Monks of Klaa in Sandman: Overture, who describe the universe as a distraction within the mind of God during meditation, with ideas and realities drifting across the Void.
Unseen Council
A conceptual designation for a higher order of beings that exist beyond the Multiverse and the Source Wall, largely unseen and unknown to life within Creation. As noted above, the term has been used to describe entities operating on a level of reality that transcends the Sphere of the Gods and the Sixth Dimension, occupying several rungs above them on the cosmic ladder, a hierarchy that ultimately ascends toward the Source of All Things.
Among these higher beings are cosmic agents of the Source, such as the Hands, who shaped its energies to bring about the dawn of Creation across the Void; Chronicler, who records the histories of Multiverses at the end of their lifespans; and the Cosmic Raptor, an envoy of the Hands who sealed Perpetua within the Source Wall.
Light of Creation
The Light of Creation is an omnipresent and fundamental creative force throughout Creation, serving as the primary principle underlying reality.
While some earlier material, such as Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths (2022), appeared to depict the Light as synonymous with the Source, the Presence, or the Overvoid, this was a common misunderstanding. Later stories, such as The Flash (2025), introduce the Deep Change, associating it with the Light and the Source. The Deep Change, described as the “dreamer of all things,” serves as the very root of Time, from which existence emanates as a cosmic dream. It is defined as a mathematical principle underlying all things, rather than God, indicating that the Light is a manifest, active aspect of the Source rather than its purest, pre-creational state.
In this context, all energies that form and sustain the infinite Multiverses of the Greater Omniverse come from The Source in its manifest form.
Great Darkness/Primordial Darkness
In the prelude to Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths, Joshua Williamson reintroduced the concept of the Great Darkness, originally introduced in Alan Moore’s Swamp Thing series, and combined it with the origins of Creation described in Marv Wolfman’s Crisis on Infinite Earths. Williamson specifically references key passages from these works and adapts them into the broader cosmology developed over the years within DC continuity.
In issues #49–50 of Swamp Thing, the Great Darkness is depicted as the opposite of God’s Light, existing before the first Light came into being. Within modern cosmology, the Great Darkness precedes the Light of Creation (God’s Light) and becomes defined as “darkness” only through its interaction with the Light. Before the Light, the Great Darkness was without name, purpose, or self-awareness, a pre-creational void.
The Great Darkness is connected to the Shadowlands, the place to which God cast the Primordial Darkness after bringing forth the Light, and to which individuals such as Alan Scott and Obsidian are metaphysically linked. It also manifests through various aspects or avatars, including Darkseid, Empty Hand, Upside-Down Man, Trigon, and Lucifer, yet it is neither inherently evil nor nihilistic. It exists as a silent, eternal presence, a vast black canvas observing the flickers of Light without interference.
Some interpretations equate the Primordial Darkness with Pralaya or Mother Night, each representing the pre-creational void before Creation and the Light from different mythic or philosophical perspectives. In certain readings, Pralaya corresponds to the Sea of Brahma or as God's Unconscious.
Source/Presence/Overvoid = God
While the Source, the Presence, and the Overvoid are often associated with different parts of DC cosmology, these entities are in fact one transcendent entity when viewed as a whole: the Void beyond all Creations. One God, with each of the three representing the same non-dual, immutable ground of being, existing completely prior and beyond the Great Darkness.
God has appeared in various aspects to lower beings, but in truth it is an unknowable Void, infinite and eternal, where all duality and identity dissolve into unity. All the Creations of the Greater Omniverse sum to zero in comparison.
Some writers refer to this ultimate state of oneness and nothingness as Brahman, the universal spirit, or pure consciousness, all of which are essentially the same as the Source, the Presence, and the Overvoid, just described in different terms.
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Yes. The Deep Change is synonymous with the Light which is a manifest aspect of The Source in its purest form.
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Perpetuas multiverse is contained within the orrey
Some additions for cosmology page
1 New gods exists in various levels of the Multiverse and covers all the horizons
2 Throughout the multiverse, there is only one Darkseid, ruler of Apokolips. The New Gods exist outside the fractured reality created by the renegade Maltusian immortal Krona when he recklessly witnessed the beginnings of existence. It is from this vantage point that Darkseid hunts for the end of everything-Anti-Life. It is the one power that has always eluded this cosmic tyrant.
3 The new gods “safeguard” all planes of existence
4 New guardians #35, “I am seeking to protect this and all universes. This is my duty and my honor”
5 Green Lantern Corps #37, and finally, the last statement confirming that in the godhead saga is where highfather states he has been protecting the multiverse since “ages beyond your imagination”
6 7 apokalips exists outside the multiverse
8 new gods exists beyond the boundaries of the multiverse
9 it's necessary to go beyond the speedforce wall, and then go beyond the bleed, until you finally arrives on apokolips.
Batman Superman #22
10 The bleed is a structure beyond dimensional measurament, It's a wrong conception to ask about how “wide” the bleed is, it has no width or any kind of dimensional measurament, It's far bigger than anything you could imagine
11 Its a dimensions between dimensions which holds all levels of reality Coup d'Etat Vol.1 #1:
Some additions for cosmology page
1 New gods exists in various levels of the Multiverse and covers all the horizons
2 Throughout the multiverse, there is only one Darkseid, ruler of Apokolips. The New Gods exist outside the fractured reality created by the renegade Maltusian immortal Krona when he recklessly witnessed the beginnings of existence. It is from this vantage point that Darkseid hunts for the end of everything-Anti-Life. It is the one power that has always eluded this cosmic tyrant.
3 The new gods “safeguard” all planes of existence
4 New guardians #35, “I am seeking to protect this and all universes. This is my duty and my honor”
5 Green Lantern Corps #37, and finally, the last statement confirming that in the godhead saga is where highfather states he has been protecting the multiverse since “ages beyond your imagination”
6 7 apokalips exists outside the multiverse
8 new gods exists beyond the boundaries of the multiverse
9 it's necessary to go beyond the speedforce wall, and then go beyond the bleed, until you finally arrives on apokolips.
Batman Superman #22
10 The bleed is a structure beyond dimensional measurament, It's a wrong conception to ask about how “wide” the bleed is, it has no width or any kind of dimensional measurament, It's far bigger than anything you could imagine
11 Its a dimensions between dimensions which holds all levels of reality Coup d'Etat Vol.1 #1:
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I think that this seems fine to apply.
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Creation parasites the arc angles and Jin ein moks should be discussed as well.
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Antagon is 1A . He is dark aspect of the red
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I have a question, shouldn't The Avatar of the Presence / The Archangels / Elaine (after replacing the presence and after replacing Michael) directly scale to the Void. The most well known feat of the Archangels / Elaine (after she replaced the Presence) is that she, Mazikeen, and Lucifer physically grabbed the Void and moved it to connect the three Creations. From what I know of, there isn't any anti-feats for the Archangels/Elaine Tier directly scaling to the Void, since they are explicitly treated as the cream of the crop, only surpassed by the The Tier 0s officially, but I could be wrong.
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Hmm. There are other creators within the void also. Scaling them might get messy especially with how they relate to the Endless.
