One Piece: Pixelscalingless Planet | Blue Planet Version 4

[KingTempest]

So there was recently a thread that tackled the One Piece planet size. The thread attempted to downgrade the current calculation based on flawed reasoning, but true reasoning was deduced by the verse's scalers that made the calculation incorrect.
In the process of recalculating the planet size by fixing the pixelscaled images, an amazing user by the name of @EtherealCrater came to me with a proposal for the planet, which we worked on behind the scenes and produced this calculation.

For context.
In chapter 1060, the island by the name of Lulusia Kingdom was obliterated, creating a massive crater of an impossible to fill hole where the island once stood.
The energy caused by that weapon was confirmed to have generated a tiny earthquake around the crater.
But in chapter 1089, we learn that the earthquake that was caused actually affected the whole world.
The quake sent energy to the core of the planet, which then rebounded back to the entirety of the planet, which the entirety of the planet felt at the same time.
This makes no sense if it traveled through the circumference of the planet, they would've felt it in respect to when the waves passed over them, but instead people from all over the world felt 1 earthquake during the exact same timeframe.
Because this was the case, this is the explanation.
The seismic waves caused by the initial shock traveled down into the Blue Planet, then rebounded back omnidirectionally.
This is the only way to explain this phenomenon.
This means that it went down the radius of the planet to hit the center, then it came back to the surface, and the total timeframe of this event is below.
The energy took 6 days to hit the whole planet. It's confirmed that the whole planet felt the quake at the exact same time 6 days later.

Due to the timeframe of the wave's traveling, Ethereal deduced that we could find the size of the planet without pixelscaling doing a simple calculation. We then worked on it and deduced a simple formula.
Seismic waves speed * 6 days = distance from surface -> core -> surface, which is the same as 2 radii, or the diameter of the planet.

It was calculated using 8km/s, the average speed of seismic waves. But we were informed that due to the size of the planet, the pressure of the planet would be astronomical. And due to the speed of seismic waves being dependent on the pressure of the medium its traveling through, we were advised to use 14km/s for the speed of the waves.

Waves moving on an average of 14km/s for 6 days from surface to core to surface
14,000 (speed in km/s) * 518,400 (6 days in seconds) / 2 (to get 3 days worth instead of 6, just to account for the radius alone) = 3,628,800 kilometers.

I bring this to a CG thread to implement this into the verse's new math while making sure in advance that the logic of the planet is sound. Recently in the past few years we've had people pick hay out of a haystack that brings down the metaphysical barn that I call the stability of the verse, so I want to make sure with the staff of this site that this is foolproof method prior to any future random arguments that are to be had.

Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[EtherealCrater]

I just want to add on that M3X said that even using 14 km/s would still be a lowball. So even the current iteration of the calc is lower than what it should be.

 

[Damage3245]

The quake sent energy to the core of the planet, which then rebounded back to the entirety of the planet, which the entirety of the planet felt at the same time.

At the moment this currently isn't stated in the scans linked there; there is no mention of energy being sent to the core of the planet and it bouncing back omnidirectionally.

All we know for certain is that six days after Lulusia was destroyed, a global earthquake happened. It doesn't mean that for 3 days siesmic waves travelled down to the core of the planet from Lulusia and then travelled back up every else across the planet over the next 3 days.

I believe we know too little about how the weapon powered by the Mother Flame functions and what its exact effects are (include how it somehow causes 1 meter global rise in sea levels, along with creating a hole that never seems to fill no matter how much water enters it).

So I'm a little wary of this proposed method which requires us to commit to an assumption of how it works.

 

[Saqphire]

I'm sorry but aint this just calc stacking?

 

[KingTempest]

At the moment this currently isn't stated in the scans linked there; there is no mention of energy being sent to the core of the planet and it bouncing back omnidirectionally.

All we know for certain is that six days after Lulusia was destroyed, a global earthquake happened. It doesn't mean that for 3 days siesmic waves travelled down to the core of the planet from Lulusia and then travelled back up every else across the planet over the next 3 days.

I believe we know too little about how the weapon powered by the Mother Flame functions and what its exact effects are (include how it somehow causes 1 meter global rise in sea levels, along with creating a hole that never seems to fill no matter how much water enters it).

So I'm a little wary of this proposed method which requires us to commit to an assumption of how it works.

The latter half is irrelevant to the cause regardless.
We see (it's stated) that there is an earthquake around where Lulusia is destroyed.

What we are told of it is that it's an ancient weapon with the power to completely wipe out islands. Any extra assumption of the planet is unwarranted.

At the minimum we know it caused an earthquake, the attack went deep into the planet (which is why there's a crater deep into the planet), then 6 days later the whole planet felt it.

It would take extra assumptions to say something supernatural is the cause instead of basic energy transfer

I'm sorry but aint this just calc stacking?

How is this possibly calc stacking

 

[EtherealCrater]

Apparently, what actually happened was...

Day 1 - 5: Nothing

Day 6: Magical quakes spawn around the world without having to travel

Are we serious?

 

[Damage3245]

Apparently, what actually happened was...

Day 1 - 5: Nothing

Day 6: Magical quakes spawn around the world without having to travel

Are we serious?

No, I'm just saying that we don't know enough. The function and effects of the weapon are still quite mysterious at this stage in the manga.

 

[KingTempest]

the functions and effects of the weapon ≠ the functions and effects of just basic physics

loki's powers are still a mystery but if loki charges a battery with lightning breath i think we'd say that his lightning has realistic properties

 

[Kachon123]

No, I'm just saying that we don't know enough. The function and effects of the weapon are still quite mysterious at this stage in the manga.

This sounds like a cop out. It's a flying object that shoots laser beams from the sky to annihilate whatever's below it. It doesn't have a magic earthquake making ability. The earthquake was just the aftershock of Lulusia's destruction.

 

[IbukiDoujisGiantTail]

No, I'm just saying that we don't know enough. The function and effects of the weapon are still quite mysterious at this stage in the manga.

so then can nothing be calced in any ongoing series if we don't have every possible explanation of their mechanics??

 

[Damage3245]

so then can nothing be calced in any ongoing series if we don't have every possible explanation of their mechanics??

Slippery slope: that's not what I said.

You can calc whatever you like of course, but that doesn't guarantee its reliability. If most staff feel that it is safe to use, then it will end up being used.

 

[Kachon123]

@Damage3245 Is your only gripe that we don't know the full mechanics of the ancient weapon?

 

[IbukiDoujisGiantTail]

Slippery slope: that's not what I said.

No, I'm just saying that we don't know enough. The function and effects of the weapon are still quite mysterious at this stage in the manga.

What's so mysterious about a giant laser that destroyed an island and caused earthquakes??

 

[Damage3245]

@Damage3245 Is your only gripe that we don't know the full mechanics of the ancient weapon?

That's my first gripe; i don't have any more time to comment tonight so will continue tomorrow.

 

[EtherealCrater]

The only way to debunk this calc is to prove that

A. Earthquakes didn't happen

or

B. Earthquakes don't need to travel

We we're explicitly told that earthquakes happened and other instances of earthquakes do travel. It requires more assumptions to debunk than the original.

We are told that earthquakes happen and earthquakes just naturally travel, this is a known fact.

We also do have a possible explanation for the 1 meter rise in sea levels, which is the blast pushing back the water across the planet.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

3,628,800 kilometers.

A body with Earth-like density and this radius would gravitationally compress itself enormously. Realistically, it would collapse toward stellar structure physics. You cannot keep ordinary rocky-planet density at this scale without exotic matter or fictional stabilization. One Piece makes no particular effort to make the soil, gravity, or scale of the planet that big, the fact you got that result from an Earthquake is also telling, it might be just a case of genuine ignorance on Oda's part.
Logically, this size makes no sense given the whole worldbulding, and the same physics you're using. 10km deep water and 10km high clouds on a 3 million km radius is functionally insane.

Also, you made an objective mistake on GBE.

(3/5) * 6.674e-11 * (1.1038834563235711e+33)^2 / (7,257,600/2) = 1.3446859564578183e+49 Joules = 134.4685 KiloFoe

Why did you use the km unit instead of the meters?
The value you should be using is: R = 3628800000m

Pluging that denominator we have:

GBE: (3/5) * 6.674e-11 * (1.1038834563235711e+33)^2 / (3628800000) = 1.34468596e46Joules or 134.4685 Foe
So the calc overshoots by exactly 1000× due to unit mismatch.

---

Also, another issue, you claim "everyone felt the Earthquake at the same time 6 days later", this is nonsense, completely irrealistic, thus, a center-reflection propagation model is speculative. Real seismic waves do refract through planetary interiors and emerge globally, but not in a perfectly synchronized fashion. The manga likely ignores travel timing entirely for narrative simplicity. That's not how Earthquakes work whatsoever. The phenomenon itself is just as realistic as the planet size it provides.

Also, the propragation speed assumes immense internal pressure without accouting for the consequences of having such internal pressure in the first place.

One more problem, even if we grant the perfect synchronization, the 6-days don't necessarily represent seismic travel time. Because waves from one island don't converge on the geometric center of the planet, they travel outward in all directions and would converge near the antipodal point of Lulusia. A true omnidirectional rebound from the core requires the energy to arrive at the core from all directions at once, which requires the explosion to be occurring everywhere on the planet simultaneously, not just at one island.

For everyone else, let me explain exactly what the calc assumes to be happening:

• Lulusia explodes.
• Seismic energy travels inward.
• The waves reach the planet’s center.
• The center acts like a perfect redistribution point.
• The energy rebounds outward equally in all directions.
• The entire planet feels the quake simultaneously.

You don't need me to explain that this does not work under any physics model to ever exist, right? You don't get to use a realistic formula for an unrealistic feat.

Seismic wave propagation from a localized source does not behave like this geometrically. A single-point explosion does not produce a synchronized spherical collapse into the center. If you explode one island on a sphere, the wavefront expands outward from that point.

Seismic energy from a point source doesn't behave like a balloon inflating from the center of the planet outward. It behaves like a ripple in a pond, radiating outward spherically in all directions from that one point of origin. The wave front is not centered on the planet's core. It is centered on Lulusia. Because of this, the wave front expands asymmetrically relative to the rest of the planet. Locations near Lulusia feel the shaking first. Locations far from Lulusia feel it much later. Locations on the opposite side of the planet feel it last. This is seismology's most basic rule about point-source events and there is no configuration of a single surface explosion that breaks it.

"Well, but they all DID feel it at the same time!"

Doesn't matter. That in itself is unrealistic, meaning the feat is unrealistic, thus the assumption it makes is also unrealistic.

The calc's model requires the energy to hit the planet's core and then rebound outward in all directions simultaneously, like an explosion at the center of the sphere. This is the only geometry that would produce perfectly simultaneous surface arrival everywhere at once. But for that to happen, the energy would need to arrive at the core from all directions at the same time. Think about what that requires: every point on the planet's surface would need to be generating seismic energy inward simultaneously, all converging on the core at the same moment. That is the only input geometry that produces an omnidirectional rebound output. A single surface explosion at Lulusia does the opposite, it sends a single wave front that arrives at the core from one direction, at one moment, and continues propagating outward in a lopsided, asymmetric pattern. What you get from a one-sided impact on the core is not a uniform sphere of energy expanding outward. You get continued directional propagation, with some refraction and scattering. Not a simultaneous global pulse.



I'm sorry, but this is a disaster. I don't have any authority, but I did want to give my two cents.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

The only way to debunk this calc is to prove that

A. Earthquakes didn't happen

or

B. Earthquakes don't need to travel

You forgot about C: The way you calculated the travel is just incorrect.

 

[KingTempest]

A body with Earth-like density and this radius would gravitationally compress itself enormously. Realistically, it would collapse toward stellar structure physics. You cannot keep ordinary rocky-planet density at this scale without exotic matter or fictional stabilization. One Piece makes no particular effort to make the soil, gravity, or scale of the planet that big, the fact you got that result from an Earthquake is also telling, it might be just a case of genuine ignorance on Oda's part.
Logically, this size makes no sense given the whole worldbulding, and the same physics you're using. 10km deep water and 10km high clouds on a 3 million km radius is functionally insane.

Threads have already been made on this premise and have been declined.

...

We talking about the diameter so this does not matter

Also, another issue, you claim "everyone felt the Earthquake at the same time 6 days later", this is nonsense, completely irrealistic, thus, a center-reflection propagation model is speculative. Real seismic waves do refract through planetary interiors and emerge globally, but not in a perfectly synchronized fashion. The manga likely ignores travel timing entirely for narrative simplicity. That's not how Earthquakes work whatsoever. The phenomenon itself is just as realistic as the planet size it provides.

Also, the propragation speed assumes immense internal pressure without accouting for the consequences of having such internal pressure in the first place.

One more problem, even if we grant the perfect synchronization, the 6-days don't necessarily represent seismic travel time. Because waves from one island don't converge on the geometric center of the planet, they travel outward in all directions and would converge near the antipodal point of Lulusia. A true omnidirectional rebound from the core requires the energy to arrive at the core from all directions at once, which requires the explosion to be occurring everywhere on the planet simultaneously, not just at one island.

For everyone else, let me explain exactly what the calc assumes to be happening:

• Lulusia explodes.
• Seismic energy travels inward.
• The waves reach the planet’s center.
• The center acts like a perfect redistribution point.
• The energy rebounds outward equally in all directions.
• The entire planet feels the quake simultaneously.

You don't need me to explain that this does not work under any physics model to ever exist, right? You don't get to use a realistic formula for an unrealistic feat.

Seismic wave propagation from a localized source does not behave like this geometrically. A single-point explosion does not produce a synchronized spherical collapse into the center. If you explode one island on a sphere, the wavefront expands outward from that point.

Seismic energy from a point source doesn't behave like a balloon inflating from the center of the planet outward. It behaves like a ripple in a pond, radiating outward spherically in all directions from that one point of origin. The wave front is not centered on the planet's core. It is centered on Lulusia. Because of this, the wave front expands asymmetrically relative to the rest of the planet. Locations near Lulusia feel the shaking first. Locations far from Lulusia feel it much later. Locations on the opposite side of the planet feel it last. This is seismology's most basic rule about point-source events and there is no configuration of a single surface explosion that breaks it.

"Well, but they all DID feel it at the same time!"

Doesn't matter. That in itself is unrealistic, meaning the feat is unrealistic, thus the assumption it makes is also unrealistic.

The calc's model requires the energy to hit the planet's core and then rebound outward in all directions simultaneously, like an explosion at the center of the sphere. This is the only geometry that would produce perfectly simultaneous surface arrival everywhere at once. But for that to happen, the energy would need to arrive at the core from all directions at the same time. Think about what that requires: every point on the planet's surface would need to be generating seismic energy inward simultaneously, all converging on the core at the same moment. That is the only input geometry that produces an omnidirectional rebound output. A single surface explosion at Lulusia does the opposite, it sends a single wave front that arrives at the core from one direction, at one moment, and continues propagating outward in a lopsided, asymmetric pattern. What you get from a one-sided impact on the core is not a uniform sphere of energy expanding outward. You get continued directional propagation, with some refraction and scattering. Not a simultaneous global pulse.



I'm sorry, but this is a disaster. I don't have any authority, but I did want to give my two cents.

First of all
"A realistic formula"
Speed * Time = Distance.
This is the only formula we're using. Literally nothing else matters.

Regarding the method of the earthquake and the specific motions of the seismic waves, there are parts that are important and there are parts that are irrelevant.
The calculation is that seismic waves moved in a direction. The nitpicking of how those seismic waves came to be and in the manner and direction of how they came to be is overall irrelevant.

If someone generates a bolt of lightning through rubbing their hand on a balloon but a lightning bolt is formed from damn clouds and travels from clouds to the ground, we're not going to say that the bolt was made in a stupid fashion so we can't measure somebody dodging it. This is the equivalent of what you're trying to implement. It can be physically outlandish, but it's clearly shown and it can be measured, regardless of if it follows the correct science or not.

Somebody can talk about generating water by heating up the air to a certain temperature. That is objectively wrong. But in the same breath it's something that can be measured, and that's our job.

The science behind the exact mechanics mean abysmally little regarding what it is we're tackling.

The specific speed that we utilized was recommended by a cgm who was involved in the threads regarding the logic behind the planet's logical parameters. If it is agreed for good reason that the pressure arguments are flawed then we can use the initial average, but that speed was recommended by @M3X_2.0 and if you have an issue then we can use the average and call it a day.

At the end of the day, something with a speed traveled in 1 direction and came back in another one. It got measured. That's it, that's all. All this other hustle and bustle because a floating UFO that shot lasers didn't accurately portray earthquakes doesn't matter when the basis of the calculation is that "seismic waves move this fast, seismic waves moved that way in this amount of time".

You missing the 2 month long thread about a big planet appealing to earth's standards isn't an invitation to bring the same thing here.

 

[Kachon123]

Adding onto KT's point, the issue with Char's response is that it's attacking the mechanism instead of the observable result.

In power scaling, we regularly quantify fictional phenomena that don't obey real-world physics perfectly. The question isn't "would this happen exactly like this in real seismology?" The question is "what did the story explicitly present, and can that presentation be measured?"

The manga gives us three important things:

1. Lulusia’s destruction generated seismic activity.
2. The effects propagated across the entire planet.
3. The world experienced the quake 6 days later as a global event.

Since these 3 are facts, like KT said, the calc itself is literally just distance = speed * time.

Char's response spends most of its time arguing that a real earthquake from a localized source would not create perfect simultaneous worldwide shaking. That’s true in real life, but irrelevant here because the manga already depicts an abnormal phenomenon to begin with. Fiction does not stop being quantifiable just because the mechanism is unrealistic.

The argument that a one-sided seismic source cant make an omnidirectional synchronized propagation is just another way of saying "this fictional event is scientifically impossible." But that was already obvious the moment a sky weapon erased an island and caused a worldwide earthquake 6 days later. The calc is not trying to explain real seismology. It's measuring the seismic propagation event that the manga depicts.

Also, Char's response accidentally concedes the most important point:
if the quake truly was perceived globally at the same timeframe, then the propagation clearly did not behave like a normal surface ripple traveling conventionally across the crust.

That means one of two things must be true:

• Oda ignored propagation timing entirely for narrative convenience.
• The waves propagated through the planet in some abnormal manner.

And as @M3X_2.0 said, the calc is still a low ball because it's not using some absurd fictional velocity for a planet so big. It uses real seismic wave benchmarks and applies it to the canon timeframe.

The point about the converging point also misses the point. The calc isn't claiming that the waves literally obey textbook geophysics. It's literallyt just following the known travel path of:
surface -> interior -> global emergence over 6 days

That's enough to find the distance travelled from the wave speed.

At the end of the day, fictional mechanics being unrealistic has almsot never never disqualified calcing something. Otherwise, the overwhelming majority of calcs in fiction would become unquantifiably instantly. What matters here is whether:

• movement occurred,
• a timeframe exists,
• and a speed can be assigned.

This feat has all three.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Threads have already been made on this premise and have been declined.

"Threads have been made"

Shows an unfinished abandoned thread that never got concluded.

We talking about the diameter so this does not matter

No idea what you quoted here, but the GBE being incorrect does definitely matter.

---

THE MAIN THING:

First of all
"A realistic formula"
Speed * Time = Distance.
This is the only formula we're using. Literally nothing else matters.

Regarding the method of the earthquake and the specific motions of the seismic waves, there are parts that are important and there are parts that are irrelevant.
The calculation is that seismic waves moved in a direction. The nitpicking of how those seismic waves came to be and in the manner and direction of how they came to be is overall irrelevant.

If someone generates a bolt of lightning through rubbing their hand on a balloon but a lightning bolt is formed from damn clouds and travels from clouds to the ground, we're not going to say that the bolt was made in a stupid fashion so we can't measure somebody dodging it. This is the equivalent of what you're trying to implement. It can be physically outlandish, but it's clearly shown and it can be measured, regardless of if it follows the correct science or not.

Somebody can talk about generating water by heating up the air to a certain temperature. That is objectively wrong. But in the same breath it's something that can be measured, and that's our job.

The science behind the exact mechanics mean abysmally little regarding what it is we're tackling.

The specific speed that we utilized was recommended by a cgm who was involved in the threads regarding the logic behind the planet's logical parameters. If it is agreed for good reason that the pressure arguments are flawed then we can use the initial average, but that speed was recommended by @M3X_2.0 and if you have an issue then we can use the average and call it a day.

At the end of the day, something with a speed traveled in 1 direction and came back in another one. It got measured. That's it, that's all. All this other hustle and bustle because a floating UFO that shot lasers didn't accurately portray earthquakes doesn't matter when the basis of the calculation is that "seismic waves move this fast, seismic waves moved that way in this amount of time".

"Speed × Time = Distance" is not what anyone disputed. You spent most of your response defending a formula nobody challenged. The actual disagreement is whether the inputs being plugged into that formula are valid. A correct formula does not validate incorrect inputs. This is elementary.

Your lightning analogy fails because it addresses the wrong variable entirely. You are defending how the waves were generated. Nobody is challenging that. The challenge is how they propagated afterward. If someone generates lightning by rubbing a balloon, the resulting bolt still behaves like lightning. It still propagates directionally as an electrical discharge. You can still measure it because the propagation behavior is preserved. That is not the situation here. The calc requires seismic waves, after being generated however unusually, to then propagate in a manner that seismic waves are physically incapable of producing: a perfectly synchronized pulse arriving at every point on a sphere's surface simultaneously from a single point of origin. The unrealistic element is not the generation. It is the propagation itself. That is the thing being measured. You cannot separate those.

Your own calculation exposes this. Look at the division by two:

(14,000) × (518,400) / 2

That division only exists because the calc assumes the waves traveled surface → core → surface. The propagation model is not a side detail. It is baked directly into the arithmetic. You cannot claim the geometry is irrelevant while simultaneously depending on it to produce your answer.

The core-rebound model also does not solve the synchronization problem, it creates a new one. For a rebound from the core to produce a perfectly simultaneous surface arrival everywhere, the energy would need to arrive at the core uniformly from all directions at once. That requires the entire surface of the planet to be generating inward energy simultaneously. One island exploding sends a wave that arrives at the core from one direction, at one moment, and continues propagating asymmetrically. The core does not convert a directional incoming wave into a perfect omnidirectional pulse. That is not refraction. That is not scattering. That is a physically invented mechanism with no basis in any wave propagation model. The manga showing multiple panels shaking simultaneously is a narrative technique conveying global significance.

On the speed: the appeal to a CGM recommendation is not a methodology. 14 km/s is the P-wave speed measured in Earth's inner core specifically, the single densest, highest-pressure region in the planet. Using it as the average traversal speed across the full surface-to-core-to-surface journey, including crust and mantle, is not conservative. It is cherry-picked toward the highest plausible value. If the pressure argument for a higher speed is sound, it needs to be demonstrated, not deferred to an informal recommendation.

This brings the methodology to its actual structure:

1. Treat the manga's simultaneous depiction as literal physical data.
2. Invent a fictional propagation mechanism to justify what that depiction would require.
3. Apply real seismic wave velocities to the fictionalized mechanism.
4. Apply real-world internal pressure assumptions to justify the elevated speed.

You are selectively importing real physics when it inflates the result and discarding it when it constrains the model. Real seismic velocity and real propagation behavior are not separable. The speed of a seismic wave is a function of the medium it travels through and the path it takes through that medium. If you discard the realistic path, you lose the justification for the realistic speed. The two are coupled. Treating them as independent variables you can mix and match produces a number, but not a measurement.

This is methodological cherry-picking.

BOTH THE SPEED AND THE TIMEFRAME COME FROM ASSUMING THE WAVES BEHAVE REALISTICALLY. You cannot assign realistic speeds from realistic waves on unrealistic feats, that's literally my point.

---

You missing the 2 month long thread about a big planet appealing to earth's standards isn't an invitation to bring the same thing here.

Stop treating threads like end-all be-all, they can be undone just as easily as they were proposed.

At the end of the day, fictional mechanics being unrealistic has almsot never never disqualified calcing something. Otherwise, the overwhelming majority of calcs in fiction would become unquantifiably instantly. What matters here is whether:

• movement occurred,
• a timeframe exists,
• and a speed can be assigned.

Kachon,

The movement itself makes no sense, so why would the speed make sense?
A speed can't be assigned because you need to apply a realistic seismic speed on an unrealistic feat, you're making an assumption with extra steps. The VERY VALUE YOU'RE USING only works with omnidirectional propagation, which is not what's happening here. The shockwave supposedly went directly to the core in a one-dimensional direction and then spread outwards? How long did it take to travel to the core, for it to THEN spread the waves at 14km/s?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

THE TIMEFRAME COME FROM ASSUMING THE WAVES BEHAVE REALISTICALLY

Oh yeah, I say this because the waves didn't necessarily take 6 days to spread to the whole planet, the speed which they reached the core (meaning they had to travel directly down, MEANING you can't really use the 14km/s on that timeframe) is unknown. It could have taken it 5 days to reach the core at unknown speeds, and from the core, it reached the rest of the planet omnidirectionally, which THEN would use realistic seismic speeds.

Or any other unrealistic situation. What's more likely? A bigass planet with so many geological contradictions that makes it seem like Oda doesn't care about physics vs A regular planet with one feat that shows Oda doesn't care about physics?

 

[KingTempest]

i'm not replying to every single message there that's a waste of time.
So Char, what would you say happened in the actual feat? Where did the energy travel and how did it affect the whole planet?

 

[Planck69]

Any argument of "the size is unrealistic" should summarily be canned. Authors never get bogged down in this sort of minutia and the entire existence of Eastern fantasy and it's solar system sized countries completely laughs at the face of this hand wringing about scientific accuracy. On that part, I agree with KingTempest completely.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Any argument of "the size is unrealistic" should summarily be canned. Authors never get bogged down in this sort of minutia and the entire existence of Eastern fantasy and it's solar system sized countries completely laughs at the face of this hand wringing about scientific accuracy.

Amazing that you use a series that have explicit confirmation on their sizes and thus REQUIRE suspense of disbelief, while comparing it to a massive headcanon fancalculated size inferred by assuming realistic behavior.

Does physics matter or not, Planck? Because you can't just cherry pick what is convenient to get the highest result.

On that part, I agree with KingTempest completely.

Then explain why would we use Earth's realistic high end seismic travel speed? Literally why, it doesn't behave like Earth's seismic waves, why are we using it?

 

[KingTempest]

Then explain why would we use Earth's realistic high end seismic travel speed? Literally why, it doesn't behave like Earth's seismic waves, why are we using it?

simple

earth's seismic wave travel speed is the average for a planet with earth's qualities. rock. water. etc.
this planet has earth's qualities. except much bigger.
because it's much bigger, but it has the same depth of water, it means that there's a lot more rock.
if there's a lot more rock, it means that the average speed is increased, because waves travel faster through rock than water.

this means the average for the speed of the waves is astronomically higher on the blue planet than earth.
we just settled with the 14 km/s figure we were given.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

simple

earth's seismic wave travel speed is the average for a planet with earth's qualities. rock. water. etc.
this planet has earth's qualities. except much bigger.
because it's much bigger, but it has the same depth of water, it means that there's a lot more rock.
if there's a lot more rock, it means that the average speed is increased, because waves travel faster through rock than water.

this means the average for the speed of the waves is astronomically higher on the blue planet than earth.
we just settled with the 14 km/s figure we were given.

Yeah.
But the way the energy is travelling.
Is not realistic with seismic wave travel.
Because it's travelling in one direction (not the band)
directly to the core
and then rebounding as an Earthquake later.

That is entirely fictional.

So you can't use a realistic speed that requres the waves to travel omnidirectionally from the center point (which is where the explosion occurred). Just like you can't use light speed on light attacks that behave unrealistically. Pretty simple, right?

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah.
But the way the energy is travelling.
Is not realistic with seismic wave travel.
Because it's travelling in one direction (not the band)
directly to the core
and then rebounding as an Earthquake later.

seismic waves can rebound. this isn't a problem. the generation of more doesn't bring a logical inconsistency with the fact that the base one has a certain quality.

That is entirely fictional.

So you can't use a realistic speed that requres the waves to travel omnidirectionally from the center point (which is where the explosion occurred). Just like you can't use light speed on light attacks that behave unrealistically. Pretty simple, right?

it is pretty simple
the issue is that those are 2 different things.
light has strict standards on this wiki because people bullshit light all the time.
vibrations and seismic waves do not.

it's a wave. it was made through earthquakes, so it's a seismic wave. it has a speed.

if somebody causes a sound wave in a stupid way and the sound wave does unsoundwave like things, guess what speed the wiki is gonna give that sound wave?
mach 1

 

[GodlyCharmander]

seismic waves can rebound

Not like that they can't. They can't arrive from one cardinal direction and rebound to every direction on a planet.

seismic waves do not.

Great, so it's a case-by-case and I'm proposing a valid reason to call bullshit on that feat. Glad we came to a conclusion... Oh and one more thing.

it was made through earthquakes

It wasn't

It was made through an explosion, that DAYS LATER TURNED INTO AN EARTHQUAKE.

First, the speed of seismic waves is not determined primarily by the rock-to-water ratio of the surface. It is determined by the elastic modulus and density of the material the wave is passing through at each depth. Second, and more importantly, this argument only makes sense if the waves are actually traveling through that rocky interior in a physically realistic way.

They are not. So you can't use 8km/s, nor can you use 14km/s.

 

[KingTempest]

Not like that they can't. They can't arrive from one cardinal direction and rebound to every direction on a planet.


Great, so it's a case-by-case and I'm proposing a valid reason to call bullshit on that feat. Glad we came to a conclusion... Oh and one more thing.


It wasn't

It was made through an explosion, that DAYS LATER TURNED INTO AN EARTHQUAKE.

First, the speed of seismic waves is not determined primarily by the rock-to-water ratio of the surface. It is determined by the elastic modulus and density of the material the wave is passing through at each depth. Second, and more importantly, this argument only makes sense if the waves are actually traveling through that rocky interior in a physically realistic way.

They are not. So you can't use 8km/s, nor can you use 14km/s.

it was made through an explosion that turned into an earthquake instantaneously and that earthquake traveled*
one moment you argue the planet has earth like qualities and the next you're saying that we can't use said earth like qualities for the damn speed of the waves

your whole argument is based on something holding certain physics but not others so it all crumbles, and that's just wrong on this wiki.
like i said

if somebody causes a sound wave in a stupid way and the sound wave does unsoundwave like things, guess what speed the wiki is gonna give that sound wave?
mach 1

 

[GodlyCharmander]

your whole argument is based on something holding certain physics but not others so it all crumbles

It holds no physics at all. You're claiming the Earthquake suddenly stopped spreading omnidirectionally, travelled straight to the core, and rebounded to the whole planet surface. There is literally no physics in this whatsoever. Again, why are we using 14km/s if the waves are not spreading in all directions like that value indicates?

if somebody causes a sound wave in a stupid way and the sound wave does unsoundwave like things, guess what speed the wiki is gonna give that sound wave?

mach 1

We literally removed Undertale's sound wave feats because they were made from feelings and soul power and behaved unrealistically, that is literally not true whatsoever.

 

[KingTempest]

"we removed sound wave feats cause they weren't sound"

bruh

anyways

So Char, what would you say happened in the actual feat? Where did the energy travel and how did it affect the whole planet?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

"we removed sound wave feats cause they weren't sound"

They were sound magic, which is basically what you'd argue we'd approve.

Anyways

I don't suppose my own personal headcanon matters here. I don't necessarily have to provide an alternative solution to an unrealistic feat other than, "Oda literally did not make this feat thinking about the planet size and realistic depictions of a seismic wave."

Which is true btw, neither the speed of realistic Earth waves were in his mind when making this feat, yet you're claiming a huge world building fact that would not be consistent with any other sizes he mentioned in the story were derived from it. No matter how much I try to explain to you, you don't accept that this is as fanfiction-y as possible, and definitively not an accurate depiction of Blue Planet.

Why is the Red Line always drawn as a relevant sizable piece of land in the center of the world, with reverse mountain being relatively huge, in all its depictions, if the planet is meant to be 550 times larger than Jupiter? We know reverse mountain isn't particularly huge, why isn't the red line the thinnest red strip known to man in every world map Oda has ever drawn? And even in-universe globes?

Maybe because the size you got from this calculation is just Oda being bad at physics? Should we just wave all those inconsistencies as artstyle, and say Oda always meant for this super big planet? I'm sorry but the value here makes no sense in all variables of the world, physically, in terms of story telling there's no reason to have a planet that big, consistency with other sizes of the world, maps, grandline, how big the BLUES WOULD BE, nothing makes sense when you have a planet that big. Please, this can't be hard to understand.

 

[EtherealCrater]

They were sound magic, which is basically what you'd argue we'd approve.

And were these quakes magic quakes? No and even if they were, quakes from the gura-gura no mi are accepted to be real quakes despite their supernatural properties. Not mimicking how it is in real life 1:1 is not a disqualifier for the feat.

neither the speed of realistic Earth waves were in his mind when making this feat,

Source? If this is the case we should automatically assume everything else doesn't mimic their real life counterparts.

Why is the Red Line always drawn as a relevant sizable piece of land in the center of the world, with reverse mountain being relatively huge, in all its depictions, if the planet is meant to be 550 times larger than Jupiter? We know reverse mountain isn't particularly huge, why isn't the red line the thinnest red strip known to man in every world map Oda has ever drawn? And even in-universe globes?

This calc doesn't use maps, which are frequently argued to be inconsistent.

I'm sorry but the value here makes no sense in all variables of the world, physically, in terms of story telling there's no reason to have a planet that big, consistency with other sizes of the world, maps, grandline, how big the BLUES WOULD BE, nothing makes sense when you have a planet that big.

This is literally just incredulity. In my opinion, it makes perfect sense.

 

[KingTempest]

They were sound magic, which is basically what you'd argue we'd approve.

I don't suppose my own personal headcanon matters here. I don't necessarily have to provide an alternative solution to an unrealistic feat other than, "Oda literally did not make this feat thinking about the planet size and realistic depictions of a seismic wave."

Which is true btw, neither the speed of realistic Earth waves were in his mind when making this feat, yet you're claiming a huge world building fact that would not be consistent with any other sizes he mentioned in the story were derived from it. No matter how much I try to explain to you, you don't accept that this is as fanfiction-y as possible, and definitively not an accurate depiction of Blue Planet.

Your whole argument is just "he didn't think of it!" and it's just a terrible argument that we literally just dealt with

Why is the Red Line always drawn as a relevant sizable piece of land in the center of the world, with reverse mountain being relatively huge, in all its depictions, if the planet is meant to be 550 times larger than Jupiter? We know reverse mountain isn't particularly huge, why isn't the red line the thinnest red strip known to man in every world map Oda has ever drawn? And even in-universe globes?

Do you wanna say the planet's the size of australia now since reverse mountain ain't that big?

Maybe because the size you got from this calculation is just Oda being bad at physics? Should we just wave all those inconsistencies as artstyle, and say Oda always meant for this super big planet? I'm sorry but the value here makes no sense in all variables of the world, physically, in terms of story telling there's no reason to have a planet that big, consistency with other sizes of the world, maps, grandline, how big the BLUES WOULD BE, nothing makes sense when you have a planet that big. Please, this can't be hard to understand.

...
this is your point?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

And were these quakes magic quakes

Pay attention to what I'm replying to. Stop making false equivalencies.

No, I'm not comparing Undertale sound waves with quakes, I'm saying unrealistic behavior has been grounds to remove ratings in the past, not just the fact they were magic.

Source? If this is the case we should automatically assume everything else doesn't mimic their real life counterparts

Au Contrare, we should always assume something is realistic UNTIL THEY SHOW UNREALISTIC BEHAVIOR. Which is the case here.

This calc doesn't use maps, which are frequently argued to be inconsistent.

I never said the calc uses maps, BUT THE MAPS are definitely a much closer look to Oda's depiction of the planet than an Earthquake calc using realistic values that were never meant to be used. There is no concern to realism, and the source is the fact the Earthquake is unrealistic. That much I proved.

You're CLAIMING, with full letters, that the Red line is a stretch of land so thin that it wouldn't even be visible on a map. That's what the calc claims, that's what you claim. Then why can we see it on maps in every depiction? Like actually explain that.

This is literally just incredulity. In my opinion, it makes perfect sense.

Oh yeah inconsistency and unrealistic behavior is just incredulity. The fact it would take the average boat hundreds of years to cross the grandline and the east blue is JUST INCREDULITY!

Or are we also arguing that the average pirate boat is massively hypersonic, Ethereal?

Your whole argument is just "he didn't think of it!"

You know the worst part about this? You know that's not my only argument. You know that's not the totality of my argument. Yet you make these outrageous claims so my points appear weaker than what they really are.

No, I argued for unrealistic behavior that disqualifies the use of realistic speeds derived from realistic behavior, i've pointed out visual inconsistencies that far, far, FAAAAAAAR outweigh the average inconsistency on a map. Mind you, the fact scaling is somewhat inconsistent in maps doesn't mean the maps have to be discarded and can never be used again, that's bogus, it's literally the author depiction of the planet, we're not asking for perfect consistency, but if the Red Line was supposed to be a thin strip across the planet, it would be depicted as so.

I've also shown other logical inconsistencies, the fact the highest point and lowest point of the world are about 50km, the size of the blues making no sense, the calm belt making no sense, the speed of boats making no sense, the sheer outlier that Whitebeard would become making no sense, the ENTIRE WORLDBUILDING is DESTROYED by this calculation, and yet you think my argument is just 'he didn't think of it"? Are you JOKING?

No. I'm putting my foot down, and letting everyone know what problems I have with the calc, and they are valid concerns to have. I don't mean to put it in a disrepectful way, but this is like arguing flat earth in a sense, because every contradiction is explained away with an assumption that doesn't necessarily converse with the whole picture and evidence.

Do you wanna say the planet's the size of australia now since reverse mountain ain't that big?

No. But there's a difference between, "red line is made slightly bigger on a map to pinpoint where it is", and "red line technically should not even be visible on a map, but we will depict it as covering 10% of the surface area". At some point, that depiction would just become extremely and utterly inaccurate for any reason possible.

Like there's no way this isn't a good point against this, right? In-universe globes depict the red line as a visible portion of land, what use would that have in terms of practicality? None, it's like making an island on a real life globe the size of antartica to show where it is, it makes the location inaccurate.

this is your point?

Stop. Like, genuinely stop pretending this isn't valid. This is not a healthy way to deal with opposition, Tempest. What I've stated is basically the entirety of One Piece world building collapsing under an assumption made from a calc. If a feat is not meant to depict size, distance and speed, we generally shouldn't use it for that, and this paints very clearly the reason why, in most cases.

The fact even a staff had the audacity to point out a completely different series where the size of countries are stated as, narratively needed as, and used as Solar System sized constructs, as a comparison to a fan-calc reaching an impossible conclusion, is what really has me scratching my chin. I have the same belief as @DontTalkDT that fiction can make exceptions to literally anything, but that exception has to come from a canon source, not just a fan-calc, literally how is this different than calculating KE from a canon speed/mass on a feat that doesn't generate that much KE on impact?

Like, to me, the point I'm trying to make seems obvious, honestly.

 

[EtherealCrater]

No, I'm not comparing Undertale sound waves with quakes, I'm saying unrealistic behavior has been grounds to remove ratings in the past, not just the fact they were magic.

Which isn't applicable in this case because unusual quakes have already been accepted and isn't a debunk.

Au Contrare, we should always assume something is realistic UNTIL THEY SHOW UNREALISTIC BEHAVIOR. Which is the case here.

Nothing you have presented proves that their speed is slower than normal. All you've brought up is how they travel, not their actual speed. Many aspects of the One Piece world has shown unrealistic behavior and are accepted as such.

Akainu is accepted to be able to produce temperatures of 28,000 degrees C, despite Magma not being able to reach these temps.

Kizaru is accepted to be able to accelerate his light beyond the speed of light, despite light not being able to do this.

Whitebeard's quakes can crack the very air itself, despite it being impossible.

Note how all of these examples are not disqualifiers for their abilities being magma, light and quakes. Akainu's magma isn't accepted as being colder than magma, Kizaru's light is not accepted as being slower than light, WB's quakes are not accepted as being weaker than normal quakes. One aspect being different doesn't debunk it's other aspects.

The Mother Flame's quakes traveling in a weird way doesn't debunk their speed at all.

BUT THE MAPS are definitely a much closer look to Oda's depiction of the planet than an Earthquake calc using realistic values that were never meant to be used

Maps without any sense of scale are useless and don't offer a better outcome; there's also the problem of size comparisons being unreliable. The Mercator Projection is a perfect example where the depictions on the map are not accurate to the real life versions.

You're CLAIMING, with full letters, that the Red line is a stretch of land so thin that it wouldn't even be visible on a map. That's what the calc claims, that's what you claim. Then why can we see it on maps in every depiction? Like actually explain that.

This would just be an extension of my last point as maps are often inaccurate for size comparisons.

Oh yeah inconsistency and unrealistic behavior is just incredulity. The fact it would take the average boat hundreds of years to cross the grandline and the east blue is JUST INCREDULITY!

Or are we also arguing that the average pirate boat is massively hypersonic, Ethereal?

These points have been thoroughly argued and debunked in previous threads. Travel speeds are too inconsistent to be a debunk.

87050428.571429/2.572 = 33,845,423.23928033 seconds = 391.72 Days

Yes, travel speeds are way too inconsistent as it would take over a year just for the Strawhats to leave Alabasta yet they do it in a few weeks AT MOST.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

unusual quakes have already been accepted and isn't a debunk

Appeal to prior consensus. Plus I'm sure this isn't even true.

I am presenting a specific reason why applying a realistic speed to an unrealistically propagating wave is methodologically invalid. That objection does not disappear because a previous thread didn't address it. If anything, that makes it more relevant now, not less.

Also, Tempest didn't even show a thread, he just showed some abandoned discussion.

Nothing you have presented proves that their speed is slower than normal

Unreasonable deniability isn't an argument.

You have the burden of proof backwards. The speed is not an established fact, it is an assumption. I do not need to prove the waves are slower. You need to prove they travel at 14 km/s. The waves provably do not behave like real seismic waves. That directly undermines the basis for importing a real-world speed value. An unproven assumption doesn't become valid just because nobody has produced a direct contradiction to it. Stop treating your default position as though it has already been established.

In short, the 14km/s has no leg to stand on. Stop asking me to fulfill a burden that's literally not mine.

Akainu is accepted to be able to produce temperatures of 28,000 degrees C, despite Magma not being able to reach these temps.

Kizaru is accepted to be able to accelerate his light beyond the speed of light, despite light not being able to do this.

Whitebeard's quakes can crack the very air itself, despite it being impossible.

Let me say loud and clear: This is a strawman.
I am not arguing that fictional seismic waves stop being seismic waves. I am arguing against importing a specific numerical value derived from realistic propagation behavior and applying it to propagation behavior that is demonstrably not realistic. Those are different claims and you are arguing against the one I didn't make.

Note how all of these examples are not disqualifiers for their abilities being magma, light and quakes. Akainu's magma isn't accepted as being colder than magma, Kizaru's light is not accepted as being slower than light, WB's quakes are not accepted as being weaker than normal quakes. One aspect being different doesn't debunk it's other aspects.

I'm sorry to say this but your own analogy destroys your argument.

Follow me: Akainu's magma is not considered colder because it was proven by feats to be hotter. Kizaru is not considered slower because he was explicitly stated and demonstrated to be faster.

In every example you raised, the real-world value acts as a floor established by actual evidence.

These waves have never had their speed demonstrated or stated anywhere. There is no feat. There is no statement. The 14 km/s figure is not a floor established by evidence, it is a ceiling pulled from a specific Earth model and inserted into the calc without any in-universe justification. The analogy you constructed argues for my position, not yours. Lmao.

The Mother Flame's quakes traveling in a weird way doesn't debunk their speed at all.

"debunk their speed"

You are still treating the speed as an established fact that requires debunking. It isn't. It is an assumption that requires justification. The unusual propagation behavior is precisely why that justification hasn't been provided. I don't need to prove the speed is wrong. You need to prove the speed is right. You haven't.

Maps without any sense of scale are useless and don't offer a better outcome; there's also the problem of size comparisons being unreliable. The Mercator Projection is a perfect example where the depictions on the map are not accurate to the real life versions.

This would just be an extension of my last point as maps are often inaccurate for size comparisons.

The Mercator Projection argument is completely inapplicable here. Mercator distortion exists because a spherical surface is being flattened onto a 2D plane, it is a mathematical consequence of that transformation. In-universe globes have no such transformation occurring. They are already spherical. The distortion you are describing literally cannot exist on a globe by definition. Beyond that, even granting maximum distortion from any known projection, the Red Line would still not be visible on a globe at realistic scales. It is thousands of times larger than it should be even on the smallest in-universe depiction. That is not a projection artifact. That is a scale contradiction the seismic calc has to account for, not dismiss. The Mercator Projection is literally just math, if you reverse engineer one, you would get accurate scales.

These points have been thoroughly argued and debunked in previous threads. Travel speeds are too inconsistent to be a debunk.

They were not debunked.

The thread you are referring to was abandoned. An unfinished thread is not a verdict. Cite a conclusion or don't cite the thread.

Travel speeds are also not inconsistent, they are only inconsistent if you deliberately select the lowest possible value and ignore the context entirely. The Grand Line is canonically a region of extreme and violent weather. Using a calm-water recreational sailboat speed as your baseline for Grand Line travel is not a neutral choice. It is a choice engineered to produce an inconsistency.

87050428.571429/33.6549556 = 2,586,556 seconds = approximately 30 days
That is four weeks, which is entirely consistent with the narrative timeframe, and that figure still does not account for the Grand Line's storms and currents actively accelerating travel beyond standard sailing speed. The inconsistency only exists if you construct it by using the wrong input. That is not evidence of a contradiction. That is, if we even consider this distance calculation accurate, which I don't, because it isn't, it is not inconsistent whatsoever.

With proper pixelscaling, the distance is more like 20000km, or 20000000m which is 20000000/33.6549556 = 6.9 days. Far more reasonable, and still within realistic speeds for such a violent weather.

So what's inconsistent again?

 

[Floxy178]

I haven't read the posts in this thread but I have a question, wouldn't 14 km/s * 518400s be half of circumference? There fore 14 * 518400 * 2 / pi = 4620331 km for diameter, no?

 

[Damage3245]

I haven't read the posts in this thread but I have a question, wouldn't 14 km/s * 518400s be half of circumference? There fore 14 * 518400 * 2 / pi = 4620331 km for diameter, no?

The OP mentions that the 3,628,800 km figure is just the radius of the planet. The diameter would be 7,257,600 km, and the circumference would be 22,800,706 km.

 

[Floxy178]

The OP mentions that the 3,628,800 km figure is just the radius of the planet. The diameter would be 7,257,600 km, and the circumference would be 22,800,706 km.

I was asking because I thought distance should be through surface, and I was wrong.