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One Piece: Alabasta -> Skypiea Key Merge, Scaling Swap, and Calc Implementation

KingTempest

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One Piece: Alabasta -> Skypiea Key Merge
I got a haircut but I'm still ripping the hair out of my scalp for this verse.
Let's get busy.

Alabasta & Skypiea Scaling​

Through my many rereads of Alabasta and Skypiea, I've learned a few things.
#1 Nobody grows over the course of the end of Alabasta to the middle of Skypiea
#2 The top tier fighters are all relative in both arcs
#3 The guards of Cobra are strong, but they are weaker than the Monster Trio
#4 The guards of Cobra scale to Pell's durability feat.

Focusing on the primary ones

The guards of Cobra scale to Pell's durability feat.​

Pell, who withstood the explosion, was already extremely injured​

So we recognize with Pell that after he fought Robin, Pell is at the point of where he is incapable of even solidly standing up straight.
Pell got put down by a shot from Miss Father's Day, the counterpart of Mr. 7, the 8th strongest man of the collective of Baroque Works, while Pell's ally, Chaka, could block an attack from Crocodile (the strongest man) and stall him for a few minutes, even after Crocodile almost incapacitated him, with Crocodile acknowledging him for even still being alive, implying that he intended to kill him.

This is impressive, because even Nico Robin, who dispatched Pell in the first place, struggled to keep up with Crocodile, showing that Chaka doing so is a large testament to his power.

Chaka showcased himself, strength and durability wise, to be superior to the likes of a weakened Pell. Chaka, when he gets a profile, should scale above an injured Pell's durability.
Chaka's AP rating will scale to a suppressed Crocodile, who scales above Chaka's durability, who scales above a weakened Pell.
In his full capabilities, Pell should scale to Chaka, as he's recognized as the strongest soldier of Alabasta.

Next

The guards of Cobra are strong, but they are weaker than the Monster Trio​

Cobra's reaction to the capabilities of Luffy showcases that Luffy is superior to them.
As Cobra states "Crocodile slays my soldiers as though they were mere bugs, and yet he..."
The intention of Oda in this panel showing Pell's helplessness yet showing Luffy's strength implies that Luffy is superior to the likes of Pell.
The Monster Trio does scale from Luffy, but it's supported even more due to the showings that they were able of dispatching the top 3 Baroque Works members as well.
On top of that, Zoro took an even stronger bullet than the one Pell took, and he was relatively better afterwards.

A weakened Pell should validly be the measurement of the rest of the team.
Now

The top tier fighters are all relative in both arcs​

The top tier fighters consist of members of a few factions

Straw Hat Pirates​

  1. Luffy
  2. Zoro
  3. Sanji
  4. Robin (Miss All Sunday)

Baroque Works​

  1. Mr. 0 (Crocodile)
  2. Ms. All Sunday (Nico Robin)
  3. Mr. 1 (Daz Bones)
  4. Ms. Doublefinger (Zala)
  5. Mr. 2 (Bon Clay)

Skypieans​

  1. Gan Fall

Shandians​

  1. Wyper
  2. Kamakiri
  3. Braham

Birkans​

  1. Enel
  2. Ohm
  3. Shura
  4. Gedatsu
  5. Satori
  6. Commander Yama

These guys are all relative.

Alabasta​

Male and Female partners are equals.
Daz Bones and Bon Clay are in the same ballpark.
Zala ~ Daz ~ Bon.
Zoro fights Daz as an equal, wins.
Sanji fights Bon as an equal, wins.
Alabasta Zoro is equal to Luffy.
Luffy fights Crocodile as an equal and wins with a rage amp.

Skypiea​

Satori fought Luffy Sanji and Usopp, yes through Impact Dials primarily, but AP wise he slams Luffy into a tree to where it caused noticeable discomfort (while Luffy has a resistance, it still shows he's a threat, akin to Koro).
Sanji said Satori is strong.
Shura fought Gan Fall hand in hand.
Wyper stated that Gan Fall and the Priests are capable of killing each other.
The priests (Ohm and Gedatsu) noted that taking out Gan Fall was a great blow but losing Satori was another, and that out Satori shows that they underestimated the enemy.
Shandia vs Birka. Braham vs Shura. Wyper and Gedatsu. Kamakiri and Ohm. The war shows that the 3 captains of Birka can combat the priests captains of Shandia.
They note that Kamakiri wasn't injured in battle, but he was trying to protect Raki.
Again, they note that Satori was a threat.
Shura was on the level of Gan Fall and Braham regularly, but with his Ordeal of String he almost defeated all of Birka singlehandedly if not for Wyper.
Zoro and Braham went hit for hit.
Luffy and Wyper went hit for hit.
Robin got pressured bad by Yama, even without the dials.
Zoro said Wyper was strong when they clashed.
Shura and Ohm clashed.
Zoro can fight Ohm, his weapon is just too much.
Enel visibly struggles with Zoro and compliments his capabilities.
We know of Luffy vs Enel. I'm not sending all that.

The last point of nobody growing is just cause they don't actually increase in any caliber. We just arbitrarily split the keys.

The new scaling chain will scale off of Chaka and Pell due to scaling above an injured Pell.

New profiles
 
Keep cooking.
e10551b1d60e.gif
 
I also agree with everything, thought personally i think it would be more safe to go with the High 7-C End for Pell's Durability, as its based from the straightforward
statement of the bomb be 5km where the other go its from Crocodile's sandstorm which rely more on pixelscaling.
 
I also agree with everything, thought personally i think it would be more safe to go with the High 7-C End for Pell's Durability, as its based from the straightforward
statement of the bomb be 5km where the other go its from Crocodile's sandstorm which rely more on pixelscaling.
Pell got hit by the explosion mid-air, so it makes more sense to use the air detonation end if both are accepted.
 
I also agree with everything, thought personally i think it would be more safe to go with the High 7-C End for Pell's Durability, as its based from the straightforward
statement of the bomb be 5km where the other go its from Crocodile's sandstorm which rely more on pixelscaling.
Currently I am leaning in favor of that option as well.
 
Pell got hit by the explosion mid-air, so it makes more sense to use the air detonation end if both are accepted.
Then there shouldn't be any calc using Ground Detonation only the Air Detonation, with the 5 km end and the Crocodile's sandstorm end.

Explosion Radius: 5/2 = 2.5 km

Air Burst Energy: ((2.5/0.28)^3)/1000 = 0.711780248 Megatons of TNT

Pell CA: pi*(2.0119858870968/2)^2 = 3.178 m^2

Pell's Durability: 711780.248/(4π(1.02224577)^2))*3.178 = 172257.967 Tons of TNT or 172.258 Kilotons (Large Town level)

Thought it does downgrade the feat, its still within the same range as Crocodile's sandstorm as well as the several Enel's El Thor which are often calc in similar range.
 
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Then there shouldn't be any end using Ground Detonation and just use the Air Detonation, with the 5 km end and the Crocodile's sandstorm end.
I'll keep the Ground Detonation end. The bomb was going to detonate at ground-level before pell flew it up in the air. Crocodile's 5 km estimation was for the ground detonation.

The air detonation evidently had a diameter much greater than 5 km diameter.
 
I'll keep the Ground Detonation end. The bomb was going to detonate at ground-level before pell flew it up in the air. Crocodile's 5 km estimation was for the ground detonation.

The air detonation evidently had a diameter much greater than 5 km diameter.
Not necessarily. It's not like detonating in the air would make the explosive itself nearly 30 times more powerful than if it has detonated at the surface of the ground. I don't think in the manga we get a great view of the explosion in the air itself. We view it mostly from below.
 
Just update me on what value we're gonna use cause idc
 
That scan shows the aftermath of the explosion, not the explosion itself. The edges of the cleared area of the sandstorm don't denote the furthest edge of the explosion itself; the force of the explosion obviously extends beyond what is visible for the explosion itself as we can see windows shattering and buildings shaking in areas not directly touched by the explosion. That the explosion had enough force to clear the sand directly above Alubarna is not the same thing as the explosion being bigger than Alubarna itself. And it wouldn't make sense with what we were told about the diameter of the explosion earlier.
 
That scan shows the aftermath of the explosion, not the explosion itself. The edges of the cleared area of the sandstorm don't denote the furthest edge of the explosion itself; the force of the explosion obviously extends beyond what is visible for the explosion itself as we can see windows shattering and buildings shaking in areas not directly touched by the explosion. That the explosion had enough force to clear the sand directly above Alubarna is not the same thing as the explosion being bigger than Alubarna itself. And it wouldn't make sense with what we were told about the diameter of the explosion earlier.
What? Even in the page of the explosion explosion itself, we see that it extends far beyond the 5 km center plaza with the sandstorm along its edge. It was clearly much bigger in the air.
 
I'm a little lost on something for the calcs. That Moron's blog here cites Stefano's calc here for the diameter of the sandstorm as being 18.5202778148 km, but I'm having a hard time tracking down where that figure is actually located. Can someone remind me where it was calced?
 
I'm a little lost on something for the calcs. That Moron's blog here cites Stefano's calc here for the diameter of the sandstorm as being 18.5202778148 km, but I'm having a hard time tracking down where that figure is actually located. Can someone remind me where it was calced?
I think it comes from here
 
I'm a little lost on something for the calcs. That Moron's blog here cites Stefano's calc here for the diameter of the sandstorm as being 18.5202778148 km, but I'm having a hard time tracking down where that figure is actually located. Can someone remind me where it was calced?
The 18.5202778148 km should be the diameter of the shockwave calculated in comparation to Alubarna, which i calculated here years ago using the bomb's destructive yield (based on the assumption that the fireblast of 5 km was concentrated the city square where the two armies made up in the millions of men where fighting as show while Crocodile was explaning his plan) which resulted to a diameter of 13.33333336 km.
 
I think it comes from here
I see... If that line that That_Moron drew was at the level of where the explosion took place... then it only took place at a height a few kilometres above the surface of the city. If the explosion really did have a radius of 9.26 kilometers, then it would have been large enough to engulf the city itself in its blast radius.

The 18.5202778148 km should be the diameter of the shockwave calculated in comparation to Alubarna, which i calculated here years ago using the bomb's destructive yield (based on the assumption that the explosion blast of 5 km was concentrated where the two armies made up in the millions of men where fighting) which resulted to a diameter of 13.33333336 km.
Aye, I thought it was based on something like that. It results in an odd size scaling chain where the root of it is that we assume that the explosion's size will be 5 km in diameter, which we use to scale the city, which we use to scale the size of the explosion as being 18.5 km...
 
The city is larger than that so that doesn’t apply whatsoever
 
Aye, I thought it was based on something like that. It results in an odd size scaling chain where the root of it is that we assume that the explosion's size will be 5 km in diameter, which we use to scale the city, which we use to scale the size of the explosion as being 18.5 km...
It seen a reasonable, if the explosion was going to dwarf the whole city then why have the two armies specifically concentrated in the city square when he could have just have them fight all over the city?

I assumed the reason why its because the 5 km blast was only going to cover the city square where the fighting was happening, as display during his dialogue, which its why Crocodile had to wait for the two armies to clash in that place, and considering that one of the rebel army alone was made by millions of people, that city square would have to be really big.
 
Explosion Shockwave Width > Sandstorm > City > City Crater > 5km
 
The translation its refer to the explosion itself and not the crater, i can't tell which its the most accurate to the original text.
it can't talk about altering the view if it isn't actually changing things, which the crater does

Stephen Paul's translation says
Crocodile: It's a special ammunition designed to blow up an area 5 km in diameter.
The scenery from this spot will change quite a bit, I imagine...
Source
 
Explosion Shockwave Width > Sandstorm > City > City Crater > 5km
it can't talk about altering the view if it isn't actually changing things, which the crater does

Stephen Paul's translation says

Source

It doesn't make a lot of sense for the explosion to be wider than the city itself, if it's only supposed to blow up an area 5 kilometres in diameter in front of the palace. Since Crocodile says "From this spot" in that speech bubble, the palace itself shouldn't be destroyed and encompassed by the explosion. (Which makes sense as Crococdile wants to rule Alabasta as it's king, he doesn't want to destroy the entire city completely)

I don't think 18.5 km is accurate to use for the diameter of the explosion.
 
It doesn't make a lot of sense for the explosion to be wider than the city itself, if it's only supposed to blow up an area 5 kilometres in diameter in front of the palace. Since Crocodile says "From this spot" in that speech bubble, the palace itself shouldn't be destroyed and encompassed by the explosion. (Which makes sense as Crococdile wants to rule Alabasta as it's king, he doesn't want to destroy the entire city completely)

I don't think 18.5 km is accurate to use for the diameter of the explosion.
We visibly see that the shockwave of the explosion supersedes the size of the city.
Come on
 
I'll try to explain why I don't think Kachon's calculation should be used.

MuipX3g.png


This is what is being used to find the diameter of the explosion, the diameter being that red line which in comparison to the calculated size for the city gets it to be 18.5 kilometers in diameter.

Now, this is an omnidirectional explosion, so if we draw a line going downwards from where the explosion supposed happened, we get this:

ugyPjdt.png


The vertical extent of the explosion actually reaches off panel, it'd encompassed the entire city easily. If the explosion detonated that high off the ground and was as big as what has been scaled, then the city should've been destroyed.

But there's a bigger issue than this.

Kachon's calc, uses this formula:

Air blast radius (near-total fatalities) Yield: Y = ((x/0.28)^3)/1000 with Y in megatons of TNT and x the radius in km.

Near-total fatalities in this case meaning 20 psi, or defined effects being: Heavily built concrete buildings are severely damaged or demolished. Fatalities approach 100%.

So there's an obvious issue with this. The city itself apparently has a diameter of around 13 kilometers. The explosion's effects, felt over an 18 kilometer diameter would demolish even heavily built concrete buildings, but we're told by Crocodile himself than the destructive effects will be in an area 3 miles across. And this is reiterated multiple times with characters stating that the blast will be 3 miles across here and here. Usopp even points out that logically the shooter of the explosive should be a mile and a half away in order to not get caught up in the explosion. So if the explosion was truly as powerful as what has been calced, then if it detonated in the palace square as planned then it would have destroyed the entire city which contradicts what we were told would happen.

All in all, I don't think the scans presented indicate a near-total fatalities level of destruction as a scaled radius of 9.26 kilometers. Having a visible effect on the sandstorm that far away wouldn't denote 20 psi.

I think we should use Stefano's suggestion and go with the stated diameter from the manga.
 
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Alabasta & Skypiea Scaling​

Through my many rereads of Alabasta and Skypiea, I've learned a few things.
#1 Nobody grows over the course of the end of Alabasta to the middle of Skypiea
The last point of nobody growing is just cause they don't actually increase in any caliber. We just arbitrarily split the keys.
Where's the proof that Alabasta characters scale to the speed showings in Skypiea? We already know speed can drastically grow between islands. Luffy goes from comparable to lightning to being able to dodge light speed attacks

Just because the Skypiea characters don't have higher AP feats doesn't instantly mean the keys should be merged since it's directly stated characters get stronger each island
reminder-that-all-the-strawhats-get-stronger-after-each-v0-576z8ise0hob1.png


All that was given was the separate inverse scaling of each arc individually, not arc vs arc

Disagree with key merge and the High 7-C end for Pell's durability should be used with the problems Damage pointed out with the pixel-scaled diameter
 
Where's the proof that Alabasta characters scale to the speed showings in Skypiea? We already know speed can drastically grow between islands. Luffy goes from comparable to lightning to being able to dodge light speed attacks
Luffy has his own rage zenkai boosts and a lot of the time there is just blatant inconsistencies.
Just because the Skypiea characters don't have higher AP feats doesn't instantly mean the keys should be merged since it's directly stated characters get stronger each island
reminder-that-all-the-strawhats-get-stronger-after-each-v0-576z8ise0hob1.png


All that was given was the separate inverse scaling of each arc individually, not arc vs arc
"All of us have been slowly getting stronger" is just referencing them growing and learning new skills. The end of Alabasta is the peak of their strength for the longest until EL.

They grow because of the battles that they put themselves through that push their limits to the absolute max and beyond. Zoro at the end of his fight with Daz Bones was not strengthened any time to Skypiea, especially when the whole arc they're casual.

Them saying "even if we haven't realized it" shows that it's not them literally gaining muscle mass.

"He too, with every island he's visited, has overcome death" shows that it means that in times of extreme pressure, they rise to the challenge, not that their muscles increase everytime they step on new land.

Especially skypiea, which is only a few days after alabasta, not like the other arcs where they train for several days or have very large gaps.

The true translation from Stephen Paul says this
Zoro: Every time we cross a new island,
we grow stronger in new ways without realizing it.
And every island, he escapes death
in the same way we all have.
Nobody in our crew is flaky enough to die from any little thing!!
Growing stronger in "new ways" implies that it isn't just them gaining ap and speed, they grow as fighters when pushed. They weren't pushed in Jaya and when they were finally pushed in Skypiea, Enel knocked them all out.
 
Luffy has his own rage zenkai boosts and a lot of the time there is just blatant inconsistencies.

"All of us have been slowly getting stronger" is just referencing them growing and learning new skills. The end of Alabasta is the peak of their strength for the longest until EL.

They grow because of the battles that they put themselves through that push their limits to the absolute max and beyond. Zoro at the end of his fight with Daz Bones was not strengthened any time to Skypiea, especially when the whole arc they're casual.

Them saying "even if we haven't realized it" shows that it's not them literally gaining muscle mass.

"He too, with every island he's visited, has overcome death" shows that it means that in times of extreme pressure, they rise to the challenge, not that their muscles increase everytime they step on new land.

Especially skypiea, which is only a few days after alabasta, not like the other arcs where they train for several days or have very large gaps.

The true translation from Stephen Paul says this

Growing stronger in "new ways" implies that it isn't just them gaining ap and speed, they grow as fighters when pushed. They weren't pushed in Jaya and when they were finally pushed in Skypiea, Enel knocked them all out.

Since their scaling to the feats of Alabasta is prior to their high diff fights, then after the high diff fights should be stronger than that right? Something like "Alabasta Zoro until the Mr1 fight < Mock Town Zoro" or I'm missinterpretjng something? Not against the idea that they did not grow, but I feel like this could be extended to every version of SH up to Enies Lobby since thats the one place that it is stated they've grown stronger physically, making the profiles something like "East Blue-Water 7| Enies Lobby-Paramount War" type stuff.
 
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