A dispute about the Dragon Ball Super power ratings

[Antvasima]

I am starting this thread so the Son Goku talk page is not spammed any further.

Coston thinks that we have rated Goku, Beerus, Whis, Vegeta, Vados, and Champa far too high due to bad fan translations of the DBS episodes.

Please present your arguments below. Thank you.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Coston went full tard by saying the 4 galaxy. DBZ databook is not canon and has recently been completely debunked by DBS.

As for the, Goku being low galaxy-galaxy level looks okay because of the shockwaves which are quite abnormal in beaviour. I don't buy the universe busting but shaking the entire universe is pretty impressive

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

the shockwaves getting bigger by going further can be explained by

1- destructtive interference being weaker as we go away from source of waves

and

2- goku trying to perfect the shock wave nullification since punch 1 (thats why he thot he cud perfect it by punch 2, but ended up perfecting by punch 3)

also, the wave getting 'stronger' was an empirical observations, and my reasonings seem to generally fit it well

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Really now? I think my question for rite now is are we going to keep the ones you've mentioned they way they are for now or what?

 

[FanofRPGs]

Can someone translate this script from DBZ Kai?


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[Faisal_Shourov]

Please see here. Coston thinks that we have rated Goku, Beerus, Whis, Vegeta, Vados, and Champa far too high due to bad fan translations of the DBS episodes.

Does he have actual translations?

 

[Antvasima]

@CrossverseCrisis Given that all that I have to go by are the repeated statements and displays in the fan translation of Goku's and Beerus' clash threatening to destroy the universe, likely yes, but I do not know Japanese, so I am not the best person to ask.

 

[Archon_Hero]

With the amount of statements we received from the Narrator,Whis,King Kai,Old Kai,and the statement about the kaioshin realm( and most obviously the feat itself) this shouldn't necessarily be that questionable to be quite frank.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

I just checked the comments and they honestly werent worth refuting.The argument presented was what dbz meant by Seika which means world.Of course they meant the universe seeing as how the shockwaves were commented on by beings right outside it...

 

[Antvasima]

@Faisal He claims to have translated the Japanese script himself, and has a history of having a long discussion with DarkLK regarding the status of Featherine Augustus Aurora.

 

[Archon_Hero]

Pretty much. Considering how their clash was affecting such a wide radius it doesn't make much sense for them to refer solely to earth.

 

[FanofRPGs]

Well he spammed stuff on Take Five Forums and OBD also it seems

 

[Archon_Hero]

I trust herms as a translator more to be honest. This individual might as well be classified as a simple fan translator as well.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

He's an idiot apparently because he said that Goku is multi planet still. He has no clue how much energy is required to destroy planets with just shockwaves. Let alone shockwaves which can travel through the entire universe

I dont believe Beerus is universe level or close, but he's just another regular downplayer. Had he not downplayed we could've taken him more seriously

 

[Archon_Hero]

He should be somewhat close. He held back in his clash against Goku and Whis is at least 50% stronger then him, so Whis at least would likely be universal.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

well, beerus did nullify energy which was universe busting, and that energy itself was half made by beerus's energy and half by goku's, so beerus contributed half universal energy to the ball ,adn then later at some unknown percentage of his power, nullified the ball

so that shud at least make him a debatable universal

 

[Archon_Hero]

True. The energy he contributed in the blast equaled about half of the universal level attack, and if he in fact was using 70% of power then I would assume he could destroy about 80% of the matter in the universe.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

and thats before considering the fact that he nullified all of it on his own

 

[Antvasima]

This is definitely the wrong thread for discussing that. This was strictly about Coston's claims. I have already said that Lord Kavpeny will take a look at thd DBZ power ratings around the 28th of October and onwards.

 

[FanofRPGs]

This is definitely the wrong thread for discussing that. This was strictly about Coston's claims. I have already said that Lord Kavpeny will take a look at thd DBZ power ratings around the 28th of October and onwards.

Okay

 

[Sheoth]

Yes, please stay on topic and remain civil everyone.

 

[Coston]

Elder Kai was the one making a statement about the ripple and we know that the Supreme Kai has cosmic senses and psychic power which would made their statement more the side of pure reasoning rather spouting nonsense words.

Once again people ignored the word "the further it is away from the center, the greater its destructive power is" of the ripple. That clearly said no matter how great is its destructive power from far away, the same does not apply to the center, which is the weakest point.

Even more funny how people ignored the fact both Beerus and Goku clashed against each other multiple times over before Elder Kai give out the "3 more times" number. During this point onward that Goku used nullifying technique against Beerus while Beerus never noticed any similar happened prior that.

Next is Episode 13.

I hope people don't forgot that Whis stated the energy ball created from the clash between Goku and Beerus can "at least destroy Earth and nearby stars as collateral damage". It's kinda funny how "at least" = "massively higher" by some people's logic here.

Then Whis stated after that it is "the power to destroy the World". Yes. Sekai. World. Nothing more.

Hell, Whis is the only one who NEVER touch upon the word "Universe" or Uchuu. Only Elder Kai, who scared Beerus like he was some teenage girl was the only one who ever touch upon the word "Universe" or Uchuu.

If "destroy Earth and nearby stars at least as collateral damage" is somehow the power to end the World and can take Whis out then I am very disappointed.

Even more so at people who didn't try to check thing seriously and racked their brain to consider alternate possibilites, explanation and analyzing the meaning from the transgression of the events in each Episode.

Furthermore, somewhere in Ep10 or 11, Goku has to use Kamehameha to destroy rains of planet-busters energy spheres from Beerus. In Ep14, Goku was harmed by 12 planet-busting energy balls by Beerus.

If that wasn't multi-planet, then what it is?

 

[Archon_Hero]

Considering their clash was affecting such a large radius that point is rather moot. In that context it would be more logical to assume the word sekai was being used in the idealogical notion of the terminology universe.The Narrator had stated it and their is the statement about Beerus destroying the kaioshin realm which thanks to this feat makes sense. The universe was shaking regardless so multi planetary level power is nowhere near the amount necessary to perform such a feat, stars were also being destroyed so......

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

The epicenter does not matter. The shockwaves travelled across the whole universe. That is enough proof of its power

 

[Coston]

Except that the clash was stated to be "the further it is away from the center, the greater is its destructive power".

So whether happened far away doesn't apply to the center, which is its WEAKEST point.

We saw planets, moons and asteroid belts being destroyed but somehow Kaioshin Realm, which is outside the Universe is somehow unaffected? Even more so considered Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku and Kid Buu wrecked it to hell the last they fought on it.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

Except that the clash was stated to be "the further it is away from the center, the greater is its destructive power".
So whether happened far away doesn't apply to the center, which is its WEAKEST point.

We saw planets, moons and asteroid belts being destroyed but somehow Kaioshin Realm, which is outside the Universe is somehow unaffected? Even more so considered Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku and Kid Buu wrecked it to hell the last they fought on it.

Stars was also destroyed

 

[Archon_Hero]

Pretty sure the Kai's felt the clash and even saw the blinding light from the beam struggle, what are you on about exactly?

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Except that the clash was stated to be "the further it is away from the center, the greater is its destructive power".
So whether happened far away doesn't apply to the center, which is its WEAKEST point.

We saw planets, moons and asteroid belts being destroyed but somehow Kaioshin Realm, which is outside the Universe is somehow unaffected? Even more so considered Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku and Kid Buu wrecked it to hell the last they fought on it.

the getting stronger at greater distance can be explained by:

1- an area o of destructive interference being through the whole universe, whereby the as we go futher from the fight, the destructive interference gets smaller

and 2- goku was trying to nullify waves from strike 1 (thats why he said he expected to perfect it by strike 2)

so the combo of the energy being greatly reduced in the region near the fights and goku considerable supressing the collateral energy leads to the empirical observation of waves getting stronger, when in fact what truely is happening is that the wave s are getting less restricted and less supressed as they go further away from the clash

thanks for listen

 

[Coston]

@GTgokussj4: Unknown, we did saw planets and moon-like celestial bodies scattered. The exploded celestial body is more a planet than a star.

@Archon Hero: Despite that close-up visual suggested otherwise? The main cast were directly below that and nothing happen much. Not the light can reach there. It's even funnier when somehow Elder Kai and Kibitoshin saw the light when the close-up visual showing that it was only getting bigger than the Earth.

@The Living Tribunal1: Except Suprema Kai has psychic power and cosmic awareness far superior to King Kai, which does not suggest their observation is simply via experience alone, even so, the Supreme Kai have vast knowledge so it is even more unlikely that it was simply an empirical observation.

The nullfying thing only happened near the end of Ep12. Prior that, both Beerus and Goku clashed multiple times over before it reaching to the point "3 more times left".

Or maybe because the ripple works via the OPPOSITE of Inverse Square Laws, where the further it is away from the center, the stronger it get, a highly valid explanation which can easily solve the problem better instead making it more complicated then it was supposed to be.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

Even if you want to downplay them that won't be a multi-planet feat sinse stars was also being destroy by them punching each other and threathing the universe with a shockwave from two people punches that will make the universe become a viod is multi-galaxy level if it isn't then i don't know what is.

 

[Archon_Hero]

I'm still not understanding your points. That was very clearly a star,are you sure you've seen celestial bodies? The feat regardless requires an ability to produce power far above mere planetary level strength.There are far too many statements regarding Beerus's power and Herms is a very reliable translator so unless something happens in the future your ideals would be considered somewhat irrational. Edit: Using the notion of visuals which comes from the viewers interpretation is not a reliable defense, I hope you have more to throw on the table or you ideals aren't going to change much(I'm trying to be fair here, but stating that they are only planetary makes this very difficult to consider a serious negotiation)

 

[Coston]

...

Why the hell people are always ignoring "the further it is away from the center, the greater its destructive power is"?

Is that something really that dangerous which can threaten DB's standing as a "universal" level fiction?

So what kind of reliable translator translates the word "Sekai"/"World" into "Uchuu"/"Universe"? Tell me. Or twisting the statement of Elder Kai in Episode 10 from:

"ÒééÒüùÒâôÒâ½Òé╣-µºÿÒüîµ£¼µ░ùÒéÆÕç║ÒüùÒüªÒééÒüäÒüúÒüƒÒéëÒüôÒü«Õ«çÕ«ÖÒüîÒü®ÒüåÒü¬ÒéïÒüï´╝ƒ"

"Do you have any idea what will happen to the universe if Lord Beerus went all-out?"

To

"The Universe will be destroyed if Lord Beerus is serious."

Is this really a "reliable" translator?

 

[Antvasima]

A question: When the Elder Dai Kaioshin stated that the universe would be destroyed if there were 3 more clashes between Beerus and Goku, what did the original Japanese version supposedly say?

 

[AllanSaiyan]

********* is a good place to watch episode 12 and Goku and Beerus blast fuse together that was kinda different from there punches because even the earth was showning effects from that blast,in ressurection of f didn't whis protect against a planet explostion? Thats what i am saying that blast had to be universal because when the kais saw that they were alright, he was like surprise as if something was suppose to happen.Beerus nullifying a universal blast that will turn the whole universe into a vacum and he wasn't even at 100%.

 

[Archon_Hero]

He translated things for years and was never really refuted even by other translators from what I recall. The point about the shockwaves was already discussed so I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up everyone knows.As many know sekia and universe are interchangeable, and once again considering the shockwaves were destroying planets,stars, and causing the universe to crumble the context of the word falls along the lines of the term universe( being expressed as world makes know logical sense based on what happens).

 

[Coston]

I never said they are planetary.

In fact, I never deny the feat destroying thousands of planet-busters from Beerus using Kamehameha or even tanking twelve planet-busting energy spheres to face while scratching a little of Goku.

Those feats are easily multi-planet, or even large planet level. If we still considered feats of BoG valid then Beerus is easily star level as he can quickly destroyed Solar System or how he destroyed twin stars, making the place where he was fell into a complete blackout in his sleep in FoF suggesting that Beerus is well above low multi-star level.

 

[Archon_Hero]

FoF is being retconned and that still isn't nearly enough power to perform said feat.

 

[DeezNuts1102]

what is this downplaying? Okay, I've reviewed my japanese language for a month now, and yes Sekai also means the universe, it seems that some japanese refer Sekai as universe, but not all of them, heck even both the supreme Kai said Uchuu(Universe) several times during their battle.

Whis said Sekai in episode 13 or 14 doesn't contradict anything at all.

 

[Archon_Hero]

He believes the feat to be multi-planet level which really doesn't make any sense, if you want try to speak to him I'm going to sleep and will continue this conversation tomorrow.

 

[DeezNuts1102]

@Archon :nope, i ain't gonna argue with him. Too much downplaying, but i will support you guys though