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[Concluded] Operation: Star Healer

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Bump! Let's get some more mods!

Iamunanimousinthat said:
I also want to remind everyone that Star Seeds have already considered Metaphysical Aspects on this wiki, which are defined as:

"The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background."

Concepts also fall under this definition.

Everyone agrees that star seeds are non physical, so the part of the physical world is checked off.
They give rise to minds and souls so the "not being spiritual aspects" is checked off.

And I have shown that they define or govern the world. If destroy the concept of chair, then all versions of chairs must be destroyed in reality, past, present, and future. If you destroy the concept that gives rise to Mamoru, then all versions of him must be destroyed in reality: past, present, and future. The star seed of Mamoru was destroyed and all versions of him was destroyed in reality: past, present, and future.
Click to expand...

And if the main contention is that Star Seeds are non-physical but not necessary abstract; this is an already solved issue. Star Seeds are currently considered as Metaphysical aspects on the wiki. Concepts also fall under the definition of metaphysical aspects. So by wiki standards, it is perfectly acceptable to index star seeds as Concepts as they fit the requirements laid out in page as shown in the OP.

From the metaphysical page:

"As we can not list every possible kind of metaphysical aspect that may appear in fiction, not listed things like names, Dao, essence or ether are usually sorted into the existing abilities by judging what seems most similar to the ability even if it is not an exact equivalence."
 
Are the star seeds already considered Type 2 Information?

If not, I still think from reading all this that they fit the definition pretty closely.

They're not entirely abstract themselves but are seemingly building blocks for/the source of all parts of reality, even metaphysical parts.
 
FinePoint said:
Are the star seeds already considered Type 2 Information?
Click to expand...
Yes. He was also a type 1 concept, but lately his nature has been a tug-of-war. Because they demote them from being concept and information and they are given that definition again. The last demotion only removed the conceptual part, but currently they are still type 2 information.
 
FinePoint said:
Are the star seeds already considered Type 2 Information?
Click to expand...
Yes, they were both Type 2 information and Concept Type 1 before the downgrade thread this thread is refuting.

Type 2 information for being the source of properties for the things they give. They originally had Type 1 Concept manipulation because they are independent from the forms they give. Information alone doesn't cover the independence factor.
 
AsterReal said:
Yes. He was also a type 1 concept, but lately his nature has been a tug-of-war. Because they demote them from being concept and information and they are given that definition again. The last demotion only removed the conceptual part, but currently they are still type 2 information.
Click to expand...
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Yes, they were both Type 2 information and Concept Type 1 before the downgrade thread this thread is refuting.

Type 2 information for being the source of properties for the things they give. They originally had Type 1 Concept manipulation because they are independent from the forms they give. Information alone doesn't cover the independence factor.
Click to expand...
I see. Regardless, I think my opinion is that they should be both: Type 2 Information which happens to include some Type 1 Concepts as well.
 
FinePoint said:
Type 2 Information which happens to include some Type 1 Concepts as well.
Click to expand...
Do you mean that the Starseeds would grant a more powerful than conventional Type 2 Information Manipulation or do you mean that the conceptual part of the Starseeds would be accepted back?
 
AsterReal said:
Do you mean that the Starseeds would grant a more powerful than conventional Type 2 Information Manipulation or do you mean that the conceptual part of the Starseeds would be accepted back?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you mean.

Neither Type 2 Information nor Type 1 Concepts are inherently more powerful than each other.

The two things could exist in any arrangement in however many layers the verse wants.
 
FinePoint said:
I'm not sure what you mean.

Neither Type 2 Information nor Type 1 Concepts are inherently more powerful than each other.

The two things could exist in any arrangement in however many layers the verse wants.
Click to expand...
I meant that I understood that you seemed to indicate that the Type 2 Information Manipulation of the Starseeds having elements of the Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation would be more powerful than the conventional ability. But it would not be Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation as such.
 
AsterReal said:
I meant that I understood that you seemed to indicate that the Type 2 Information Manipulation of the Starseeds having elements of the Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation would be more powerful than the conventional ability. But it would not be Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation as such.
Click to expand...
I believe Finepoint is saying, (Correct me if I am wrong) that star seeds have the qualities of Type 2 information with Type 1 conceptual manipulation.
 
Was ask to comment here, sorry for the late response but I've got a lot of stuff going on.

Anyway, I'm not expert on SM and so no nothing to really discuss the arguments regarding the past thread or this one but reading through the thread the Star Seeds do seem to fit CM Type 1, the evidence looks alright at least from my bare bone understanding of CM, so I do agree with it.

However one point regarding the "independent from reality" part looks off...
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Hotaru's body and soul were destroyed by Mistress 9, yet her Sailor Crystal was unaffected and it allowed her to regenerate when she awakened as Sailor Saturn.
Click to expand...
The scan used in this point just shows a being made of what looks to be energy, erupting from a girl's torso... This honestly doesn't help clarify that the SC regenerated her a new body, there's no dialogue either, just SM shouting her name. Is there anymore context here? I still think CM Type 1 is fine given the other stuff but the scan used for this point doesn't provide enough context in my opinion.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
Was ask to comment here, sorry for the late response but I've got a lot of stuff going on.

Anyway, I'm not expert on SM and so no nothing to really discuss the arguments regarding the past thread or this one but reading through the thread the Star Seeds do seem to fit CM Type 1, the evidence looks alright at least from my bare bone understanding of CM, so I do agree with it.

However one point regarding the "independent from reality" part looks off...

The scan used in this point just shows a being made of what looks to be energy, erupting from a girl's torso... This honestly doesn't help clarify that the SC regenerated her a new body, there's no dialogue either, just SM shouting her name. Is there anymore context here? I still think CM Type 1 is fine given the other stuff but the scan used for this point doesn't provide enough context in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Actually, yes. When Mistress 9, an interdimensional alien parasite, emerges from Hotaru's body (since she had control over it), she destroys it and, as a result, also destroys her soul. Even so, she is able to regenerate later on when she awakens as Sailor Saturn.
 
AsterReal said:
Actually, yes. When Mistress 9, an interdimensional alien parasite, emerges from Hotaru's body (since she had control over it), she destroys it and, as a result, also destroys her soul. Even so, she is able to regenerate later on when she awakens as Sailor Saturn.
Click to expand...
That makes the context clear, thanks!
 
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