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Fear and Famine (Fear and Hunger Discussion Thread)

Except it's not really maintenance in their absence, they can struggle to even do that and the world could end up stagnating and reverting back an age should their influence be destructive. The world would not end if the New Gods remained recluse within the Void or nobody ascended at all, humanity would just lack direction and remain stagnant.
I've acknowledged the world is in decay. They maintain the world in the most basic sense that they prevent humanity from regress/aimlessness and from being at the complete mercy of such decay, yes.
 
Perhaps, but the end result is that he survives through some unknown means.
Because that is what the ritual Marina's father is using is for, the flesh pillar enabled Domek to obtain an immortality of sorts and perhaps reform at a later date.

We even see what this potential flesh pillar is, with the crow beast in the bunker.

This is true, but it doesn't change the result. Le'garde's godhood seems to be a step ahead of other New Gods.
Yes, it is through those acts that he intended to become something more, something purer.

It is the same thing with the Girl and why she was a prime candidate for ascending, she knew nothing but the very things she became because she grew up within the dungeons.

There isn't anything actually extra special about the man, the New Gods themselves state that the prophecy is all fallacy.

I've acknowledged the world is in decay. They maintain the world in the most basic sense that they prevent humanity from regress/aimlessness and from being at the complete mercy of such decay, yes.
Which you can acknowledge is a bit different from the statement of maintaining the universe, yes? I just think we should be careful with the words we use.
 
Which you can acknowledge is a bit different from the statement of maintaining the universe, yes? I just think we should be careful with the words we use.
… I've already elaborated on this point in particular. You can go back in the thread if you need a refresher. This is elaborated upon in my cosmology blog too...

I think it is weird that you are suddenly suggesting I'm not careful with language after the main discussion we had on cosmology. Especially after recently misinterpreting what I said about the Le'garde + Rot thing. The post you took it from prefaced the response with:

"The conflict is that he is already dead in all the S rank endings, and doesn't seem resurected in 2."

I provided two simple arguments against resurrection in what you quoted saying I assumed he was resurrected as well: Him not initially having his D'arce S ending appearance, and him not initially having the rotted appearance. I was pretty clear with saying and arguing that I didn't think he was resurrected, yet you claimed I was assuming he was resurrected. Tbh I find it hard to believe you seriously found my explicit opinion and those two arguments vague or unclear enough to claim I was saying and arguing the opposite.

This, and you suggesting I'm being uncareful with language when I agree on the why when it comes to the New Gods guiding humanity without loading up the agreement with all the stuff I've said earlier makes me worry you're not engaging in good faith...
 
I think it is weird that you are suddenly suggesting I'm not careful with language after the main discussion we had on cosmology. Especially after recently misinterpreting what I said about the Le'garde + Rot thing. The post you took it from prefaced the response with:

"The conflict is that he is already dead in all the S rank endings, and doesn't seem resurected in 2."
I didn't misinterpret you, you believe he wasn't resurrected and I was stating why I don't believe what you said contradicts the idea that he is:

Yet you can make the assumption that he is in fact resurrected due to the Rot, however when he sits on the throne it creates a reflection that isn't indicative of the flayed flesh. The placement of the Rot look and his design isn't just an easter egg, Miro throws these things in rather deliberately. It's not like everyone takes on the same appearance they had before when they become a New God either.
When I say "Yet you can make the assumption" I'm saying that it is plausible for any viewer to hold that take, not that you personally do so. You are making the claim that he wasn't resurrected due to his appearance not immediately reflecting that and I am saying he was due to the hidden detail that he can look that way.

This, and you suggesting I'm being uncareful with language when I agree on the why when it comes to the New Gods guiding humanity without loading up the agreement with all the stuff I've said earlier makes me worry you're not engaging in good faith...
I'm sorry that you feel that way, if you want me to apologize on the part of my wording maybe confusing the way I was taken then I can do that but I am doing my best to remain in good faith here.
 
Because that is what the ritual Marina's father is using is for, the flesh pillar enabled Domek to obtain an immortality of sorts and perhaps reform at a later date.
My only problem with this is that Nashrah's dialogue somewhat implies we never even fought the genuine Kaiser, otherwise he would have commented as such.

(Edit: looking at this again, Nashrah is angry at a ritual taking place, not having taken place, so I'll withdraw my point here).

Btw, where's the stuff on the pillars from? I've been looking into the Domek and Kaiser thing but the discord is a pain to scour through.
Yes, it is through those acts that he intended to become something more, something purer.

It is the same thing with the Girl and why she was a prime candidate for ascending, she knew nothing but the very things she became because she grew up within the dungeons.
Of course, and Nosramus himself admits that, while Le'garde's method is not necessarily correct, as in won't definetly lead to a true change like with an ascended god, the results will be remarkable, exceeding previous New Gods at the very least.

There isn't anything actually extra special about the man, the New Gods themselves state that the prophecy is all fallacy.
New Gods are not omniscient. They were wrong about the butterfly thing being a fallacy (don't have names on me, but it's the guy in the courtyard) and they repeatedly admit their ignorance in various topics.

They also admit that, while the prophecy is fallacy, Le'garde himself is of interest, with dialogue implying it can be due to the girl or himself (as neither ascension has occured yet. Again, not saying Le'garde is an Ascended god, just a very potent New God or something in between).
 
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Of course, and Nosramus himself admits that, while Le'garde's method is not necessarily correct, as in won't definetly lead to a true change like with an ascended god, the results will be remarkable, exceeding previous New Gods at the very least.
We aren't really in disagreement that the Yellow King is likely superior to some capacity, I was just explaining the mechanism behind the superiority.

New Gods are not omniscient. They were wrong about the butterfly thing being a fallacy (don't have names on me, but it's the guy in the courtyard) and they repeatedly admit their ignorance in various topics.
They aren't omniscient, no. But they are far more knowledgeable when it comes to the world or how these things operate than any one of us. The prophecy itself can be fallacious yet there still be some truth to Le'garde's value and what he's doing.

The character is just referred to as Butterfly, yes.
 
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I'm going to get back to making the profile for the Guard soon, though I'd like to talk more scaling.

The Crow Mauler feat is 9-B (gonna put that up for calc evaluation soon), and though I am more convinced on using the explosive vial for scaling, I'm still a bit unsure on how we're going to go about scaling on the average/lower end of characters. I'm thinking we use 'At least Wall level' for them until we find more stuff.

I vaguely alluded to it, but in-battle yield for explosive vial was not great compared to overworld. Went back to an older version of the calc blog I did. Unless someone does a recalc (any attempt would probably be better than mine because yield confused me tremendously) and finds it to be better, the Explosive Vial yield in battle that I found was disappointing, and is the main reason I question using it for 8-C tiering of even the weakest enemies.
 
I vaguely alluded to it, but in-battle yield for explosive vial was not great compared to overworld. Went back to an older version of the calc blog I did. Unless someone does a recalc (any attempt would probably be better than mine because yield confused me tremendously) and finds it to be better, the Explosive Vial yield in battle that I found was disappointing, and is the main reason I question using it for 8-C tiering of even the weakest enemies.
I think the issue that comes from it is that either way things will backscale, as there are enemies that feasibly do survive it such as Crow Mauler, Shakespeare, etc. Even characters like Ser Seymor will survive it.
 
I think the issue that comes from it is that either way things will backscale, as there are enemies that feasibly do survive it such as Crow Mauler, Shakespeare, etc. Even characters like Ser Seymor will survive it.
Right, but what about the in-battle yield? Not to put the work off on someone else, but I'm fairly certain my older calc on it is flawed/incorrect. For that reason, it is probably that it has much better ap and more closely scales to overworld calcs. I'd be behind using explosive vial in-battle for scaling generally if we could find accurate yield.
 
I was about to ask if this Orange person was on the dev team or something providing an answer to a question or something lol
 
Anyone know of any dev's actually providing information about characters/lore in questions and answers, or other kinds of messages in response to people though? It's becoming quite common within communities for games (ie Ultrakill and Pizza Tower)
 
Anyone know of any dev's actually providing information about characters/lore in questions and answers, or other kinds of messages in response to people though? It's becoming quite common within communities for games (ie Ultrakill and Pizza Tower)
Not sure about lore responses or smth, but if iirc, the dev answers questions and stuff pretty regularly on the itch.io page
Granted, that was 1-2 years ago, and I'm not sure if he still responds.
 
Orange~ is Miro.
Oh, alright then.
Imagine how stupid it would be for everyone to be 6-A due to some random discord statement
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Good thing it's fake
Yeah scaling everybody to something like this wouldn't make sense. Doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility for a New God though.
Not sure about lore responses or smth, but if iirc, the dev answers questions and stuff pretty regularly on the itch.io page
Granted, that was 1-2 years ago, and I'm not sure if he still responds.
On that, I combed through his responses on Termina, and most are either replies and fixes to bugs/glitch reports found by players, gameplay elements explained (ie saving being hard to prevent save scumming), or clarifying very specific details in universe stuff like everyone in Termina being over 18 cause Sylvian, and a character being trans.

They also say in response to replayability: 'You are right that these games (the first one even more so) are made for multiple runs and replayability in mind.' Just some food for thought.
 
Going through the first itch.io comment section, I at least found some more stuff. Miro confirming Berserk's influence (calling Le'garde 'kinda like a poor man's Griffith'), confirming the 'headless chicken' in battle effect as intended (when enemies will take one more turn to attack without their head), and how at first there wasn't mention of a coin in lore but that it was used to 'determine random variables in the game' using the Necronomicon as an example.
So THAT'S where the nuke level Kaiser statement is from, I feel dumb as hell now.
Am interested to know where these other statements are coming from though?
 
Would anyone scale to Rher being 8-A btw?
Heavy downscaling, sure. It's very casual on the trace's part and you are able to "harm" it to some extent. It simply gets bored with you and leaves, surviving attacks at all though is notable.

The New Gods could also probably scale to the Heartless One, who has this lol
Other people have said this already but that is a fake screenshot, I was down that road months ago.

Surprised it's still brought up at all.

So THAT'S where the nuke level Kaiser statement is from, I feel dumb as hell now.
This one I have not heard, but it's things like this that increase my urge to gatekeep this kind of thing. I hate this level of brainrot.
 
Heavy downscaling, sure. It's very casual on the trace's part and you are able to "harm" it to some extent. It simply gets bored with you and leaves, surviving attacks at all though is notable.
I assume it would also scale to the other traces, right?
How far would the downscaling go btw? Like would it stop with the New Gods or would it even reach the normal enemies?
 
I heard it all over the place, and kept trying to look for statements of Kaiser being unaffected by nuclear bombs in Termina. It's just another case of a fandom meatriding Word of God.
Problem is that it's also just fake Word of God, which is even worse. Miro wouldn't talk like this and prefers to show and not tell.

I assume it would also scale to the other traces, right?
How far would the downscaling go btw? Like would it stop with the New Gods or would it even reach the normal enemies?
It would scale to other Old God traces, yes.
It would probably reach contestant or character peaks and New Gods, not regular enemies.
 
Btw how are we gonna put references in the F&H pages?
Like would it be listed like <<Fear & Hunger 2: Termina - Combat Manual>> ?
I'd assume that we create pages for particular books (ones with powers like the Necronomicon and Book of enlightenment), and link to the wiki.gg for books just containing information.
 
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