-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
GER vs Future Trunks
- Thread starter Zenkaibattery1
- Start date
- Status
- 14,422
- 11,443
>Writing massive paragraphs continuiosuly isn't going to help your case
Better than writing nothing.
>Trunks has 4th dimensional power so he can control a 4th dimensional weapon. He literally does so in the game lmao.
The weapon isn't even 4D, it has a 4D power. And Trunks gains the ability to make use of that power but he himself is still 3D and shown to be still bound by cause and effect.
>The sword is what's going to work on Gio, not Trunks himself. How the hell do you think it worked on Mechikabura who himself is a 4th dimensional being
Except Trunks will never actually get to use it? Is this really that hard for you to grasp?
>Again, please prove to me GER can reset a higher-dimensional weapon.
It's not up to me to prove GER can reset anything, it's up to you to prove that Trunks, the characters and the powers he gained, or the sword himself grants him invulnerability or causality resistance because guess what? The profiles, none of them, make any mention of the things that need to be true for you to not be full of it. Also RTZ is 4D anyway, it isnt higher dimensional to RTZ, it's the same dimensional tiering.
Better than writing nothing.
>Trunks has 4th dimensional power so he can control a 4th dimensional weapon. He literally does so in the game lmao.
The weapon isn't even 4D, it has a 4D power. And Trunks gains the ability to make use of that power but he himself is still 3D and shown to be still bound by cause and effect.
>The sword is what's going to work on Gio, not Trunks himself. How the hell do you think it worked on Mechikabura who himself is a 4th dimensional being
Except Trunks will never actually get to use it? Is this really that hard for you to grasp?
>Again, please prove to me GER can reset a higher-dimensional weapon.
It's not up to me to prove GER can reset anything, it's up to you to prove that Trunks, the characters and the powers he gained, or the sword himself grants him invulnerability or causality resistance because guess what? The profiles, none of them, make any mention of the things that need to be true for you to not be full of it. Also RTZ is 4D anyway, it isnt higher dimensional to RTZ, it's the same dimensional tiering.
- 17,779
- 17,306
He. isn't. undoing. the. sealing. It literally never happens. That's what you seem to fail to grasp. Just about any hax ability worth its salt could affect GER but you know why they don't? Because he prevents Trunks from ever using his sword. And could you please explain how he would ignore the RtZ like I asked? You keep on pointing out higher dimensionality (even though RtZ is also 4-D but let's ignore this for a sec) even though Trunks is the textbook definition of 3-D. He isn't uncountably infinitely larger than GER nor does he encompass four axes of movement which means he isn't physically 4-D but only has 4-D powers.Dragomer said:
@Zenkai
GER's RtZ is independent of Giorno's will and protects the user even without them being aware. And would you please stop reiterating 4-D like that means anything? He doesn't resist RtZ, he's getting RtZed. Being higher dimensional means jack (especially with the new tiering system) if you still abide by the same principles of causality as GER and seeing how no DBH character has Type 4 Acausality, that seems to be the case.
- 15,918
- 2,681
No, the Keysword is 100% 4-D and so is its power, so GER absolutely can't affect the Keysword. On the other hand, GER doesn't need to affect the Keysword, just Trunks even drawing it in the first place, while Trunks isn't neither 4-D nor resistant to Causality Manip, so GER FRA.
- 14,422
- 11,443
>No, the Keysword is 100% 4-D and so is its power,
Does that even matter given RTZ is 4-D as well and the keysword isn't resistant to causality manip nor does it grant it?
>GER FRA.
GER can't even do anything though.
Does that even matter given RTZ is 4-D as well and the keysword isn't resistant to causality manip nor does it grant it?
>GER FRA.
GER can't even do anything though.
- 3,044
- 757
- Thread starter
- #47
"The weapon isn't even 4D, it has a 4D power. And Trunks gains the ability to make use of that power but he himself is still 3D and shown to be still bound by cause and effect. "
The weapon is 4th dimensional. It was created and formed in a similar way Mechikabura became a 4th dimensional being; being formed and created through time itself, similar to how mechikabura absorbed time to become 4th dimensional.
"Except Trunks will never actually get to use it? Is this really that hard for you to grasp? "
So your argument is that Trunks will get reset? Someone needs to explain what GER does properly again. Because what one persons says contradicts what the other says. I thought the causality manipulation has to happen by killing the opponent and then putting them into an infinite loop, or is that something else? What specifically is resetting, and what specifically is setting into an infinite death loop. Because from the Xeno Goku thread, he can only be put into a loop if he is killed.
The sword did grant Trunks protection in the arcade game which is the main canon. Mechikabura who himself is higher-dimensional couldn't harm Trunks because of the Keysword at full power
The weapon is 4th dimensional. It was created and formed in a similar way Mechikabura became a 4th dimensional being; being formed and created through time itself, similar to how mechikabura absorbed time to become 4th dimensional.
"Except Trunks will never actually get to use it? Is this really that hard for you to grasp? "
So your argument is that Trunks will get reset? Someone needs to explain what GER does properly again. Because what one persons says contradicts what the other says. I thought the causality manipulation has to happen by killing the opponent and then putting them into an infinite loop, or is that something else? What specifically is resetting, and what specifically is setting into an infinite death loop. Because from the Xeno Goku thread, he can only be put into a loop if he is killed.
The sword did grant Trunks protection in the arcade game which is the main canon. Mechikabura who himself is higher-dimensional couldn't harm Trunks because of the Keysword at full power
- 17,779
- 17,306
It's still technically bound by the same principles of causality so I'm not sure why GER wouldn't be able to affect it but nevermind this, you at least get the point being made here.Ionliosite said:
And it's technically incon since GER can't really harm Trunks. Not sure if preventing an opponent from doing anything counts as an incap but I could be wrong.
- 14,422
- 11,443
> I thought the causality manipulation has to happen by killing the opponent and then putting them into an infinite loop, or is that something else
Something else, that's the infinite death loop. Which is done by resetting an opponent's death infinite times.
>The sword did grant Trunks protection in the arcade game which is the main canon. Mechikabura who himself is higher-dimensional couldn't harm Trunks because of the Keysword at full power
Yet it didn't grant him resistance to cause and effect, which is what matters here, and checking everysingle DBH profile, none of them have causality manip, are Type 4 acasual nor do they resist it. Being immune to one thing doesn't mean immunity to everything, especially a power never even shown in the verse and especially a power that's that same dimensional tier as it.
Something else, that's the infinite death loop. Which is done by resetting an opponent's death infinite times.
>The sword did grant Trunks protection in the arcade game which is the main canon. Mechikabura who himself is higher-dimensional couldn't harm Trunks because of the Keysword at full power
Yet it didn't grant him resistance to cause and effect, which is what matters here, and checking everysingle DBH profile, none of them have causality manip, are Type 4 acasual nor do they resist it. Being immune to one thing doesn't mean immunity to everything, especially a power never even shown in the verse and especially a power that's that same dimensional tier as it.
- 680
- 34
Just watch diavolo's fight with giorno,that'll explain to you ger's ability.
Rtz isnt just a Causality manip ability nor is it just a death reset. It can reset pretty much anything like willpower for example,but in canon ger only utilised rtz in 2 ways which is the death loop and causality reset
Rtz isnt just a Causality manip ability nor is it just a death reset. It can reset pretty much anything like willpower for example,but in canon ger only utilised rtz in 2 ways which is the death loop and causality reset
- 15,918
- 2,681
Oh, I forgot he needs to kill to start the Infinite Death Loop, and that won't happen due to 2-B Dura. Incon FRA then.Chariot190 said:
- 17,779
- 17,306
RtZ works on all actions, the Death Loop specifically needs GER to kll Trunks. Which is why the match is incon since Trunks can't do anything and GER can't killl him. Why is this so difficult to understand? Hell, the first showing of RtZ didn't even have Giorno kill Diavolo yet so I'm not sure where you even got this.Zenkaibattery1 said:
OK, now how does that protection translate to causality manip resistance or Type 4 Acausality? Because even being 4-D is meaningless if you have neither of these abilities. And even if it did mean something, Trunks is only empowered by the sword. He doesn't start being infinitely larger or made of time when he uses it.
- 249
- 31
You can only be put in a loop once killed. Despite this, GER rewinds cause and effect to put the opponent before they attacked. So Trunks can not attack or finish his attack. GER can just keep reewinding him. GER cannot damage Trunks. Incon
- 14,422
- 11,443
>Novel GER's ability again?
The same thing except BFR seemingly doesn't need to kill and his willpower manip is used in passing so we know what it actually does, about it tbh. Just expanded on a bit, but that little bit of expansion makes a difference.
The same thing except BFR seemingly doesn't need to kill and his willpower manip is used in passing so we know what it actually does, about it tbh. Just expanded on a bit, but that little bit of expansion makes a difference.
- 3,044
- 757
- Thread starter
- #60
I asked for an explanation because I wanted to understand the argument
I'll vote inconclusive for now, although, it seems a bit weird causality reset is being treated as an ability that can work someone infinitely stronger, as it has never shown to.
"OK, now how does that protection translate to cauality manip resistannce or Type 4 Acausality? "
We were talking about how Higher-Dimensional would help Trunks be unaffected, as there is no evidence GER works on Higher-Dimensional beings, otherwise Gio would be soloing so many verses and thus NLF
But keep my vote incon for now
I'll vote inconclusive for now, although, it seems a bit weird causality reset is being treated as an ability that can work someone infinitely stronger, as it has never shown to.
"OK, now how does that protection translate to cauality manip resistannce or Type 4 Acausality? "
We were talking about how Higher-Dimensional would help Trunks be unaffected, as there is no evidence GER works on Higher-Dimensional beings, otherwise Gio would be soloing so many verses and thus NLF
But keep my vote incon for now
- 3,451
- 1,071
Everyone keep repeating the same wrong thing and act like because they repeated the same stuff in 4 different paragraphe, it's somehow true now.
Also the keysword basicaly did what GER did to Diavolo on a greater scale since it reseted Mechikabura to before his wish instead of just how he was at the start of the fight so even ultra wank picosecond timeloop GER just get reset to a greater extent and sealed, Trunks's still winning even if we give everything to GER here.
And the keysword 100% give it's power to Trunks, his power litteraly skyrocketed for this very reason, it's litteraly Chronoa's POT unleashed in Trunks's hand.
Also the keysword basicaly did what GER did to Diavolo on a greater scale since it reseted Mechikabura to before his wish instead of just how he was at the start of the fight so even ultra wank picosecond timeloop GER just get reset to a greater extent and sealed, Trunks's still winning even if we give everything to GER here.
And the keysword 100% give it's power to Trunks, his power litteraly skyrocketed for this very reason, it's litteraly Chronoa's POT unleashed in Trunks's hand.
- 14,422
- 11,443
>causality reset is being treated as an ability that can work someone infinitely stronger, as it has never shown to.
But it literally has, Trunks is shown to be effected by cause and effect in every scene he's in. It's being treated to work because Trunks is still bound by causality, that's literaly the only reason why. Also GER can't solo a bunch of verses, what he can do is tie with a bunch because neither can kill each other, GER because of low stats and the verse because no way to get pass RTZ.
Also RTZ resetted a universal 4D ability so no, Trunks isn't infinitely above RTZ, they're on the same dimensional tiering.
But it literally has, Trunks is shown to be effected by cause and effect in every scene he's in. It's being treated to work because Trunks is still bound by causality, that's literaly the only reason why. Also GER can't solo a bunch of verses, what he can do is tie with a bunch because neither can kill each other, GER because of low stats and the verse because no way to get pass RTZ.
Also RTZ resetted a universal 4D ability so no, Trunks isn't infinitely above RTZ, they're on the same dimensional tiering.
- 14,422
- 11,443
>Everyone keep repeating the same wrong thing and act like because they repeated the same stuff in 4 different paragraphe, it's somehow true now.
Ever think everyone is saying it because it's true and it's you who's wrong?
>Also the keysword basicaly did what GER did to Diavolo on a greater scale since it reseted Mechi to before his wish so even ultra wank picosecond timeloop GER just get reset to a greater extent and sealed, Trunks's still winning even if we give everything to GER here.
Except no, it did that via sealing and power negation, not causality manipulation, as such no, it did not do basically the same thing, thinking it did only makes you wrong. Also you say ultra wank picosecond, yet the profile literally says moment as in an instants. Also don't forget GER used RTZ while time was literally erased, there is no picosecond, especially when it can work below the fastest possible amount of time in existence given time didnt exist.
>it's litteraly Chronoa's POT unleashed in Trunks's hand
And Chronoa isn't acasual Type 4, resist causality manipulation or anything that would suggests she or Trunks would resist c&e manip, cool so glad we got that out of the way.
Ever think everyone is saying it because it's true and it's you who's wrong?
>Also the keysword basicaly did what GER did to Diavolo on a greater scale since it reseted Mechi to before his wish so even ultra wank picosecond timeloop GER just get reset to a greater extent and sealed, Trunks's still winning even if we give everything to GER here.
Except no, it did that via sealing and power negation, not causality manipulation, as such no, it did not do basically the same thing, thinking it did only makes you wrong. Also you say ultra wank picosecond, yet the profile literally says moment as in an instants. Also don't forget GER used RTZ while time was literally erased, there is no picosecond, especially when it can work below the fastest possible amount of time in existence given time didnt exist.
>it's litteraly Chronoa's POT unleashed in Trunks's hand
And Chronoa isn't acasual Type 4, resist causality manipulation or anything that would suggests she or Trunks would resist c&e manip, cool so glad we got that out of the way.
- 17,779
- 17,306
Being a puppet to Mechi an uncountably infinite power difference does not make. Also, the only way that DBH would be 5-D is is Mechi was Low 1-C. If not then he's just you're run-of the-mill 4-D. And even if he was stated to be 5-D, being X-D doesn't mean jack, being infinite X-D does as per revsions.Dragomer said:
And no, whatever Trunks did with the sword isn't causality manip. If you want, make a CRT because it ain't on his profile and as such is MUDA MUDA.
- 14,422
- 11,443
Temporal BFR actually, a specific type of BFR. Not that this matters to the thread at all.Dragomer said:
- 14,422
- 11,443
That doesn't make him 5D, if he was he wouldn't be listed as 2-B, instead he'd be tier low 1-C.Dragomer said:
- 3,451
- 1,071
Not everyone is saying the same thing as you, not my fault if you imagined something like that.
No, it didn't, sealing and power negation have nothing to do with it since it's litteraly not Mechikabura's ability nor a power, he litteraly had his body returned to his youth, at best you could power null the 'won't age again' aspect but making go back to before the wish is reset to a greater extent than GER has shown.
The profile say it's how long it take to activate, not how long between each reset, we clearly see with Diavolo that it's not how you described.
And ? where the hell do you think the final battle against Mechikabura take place ? the only reason GER still has his speed rating is because nobody bothered to make a CRT after the standard where changed.
Doesn't matter, POT Unleashed make you higher dimensional, you don't need acausality when you're higher dimensional, you're not affected to begin with.
It doesn't suggest it, it outright say they'd no sell it.
No, it didn't, sealing and power negation have nothing to do with it since it's litteraly not Mechikabura's ability nor a power, he litteraly had his body returned to his youth, at best you could power null the 'won't age again' aspect but making go back to before the wish is reset to a greater extent than GER has shown.
The profile say it's how long it take to activate, not how long between each reset, we clearly see with Diavolo that it's not how you described.
And ? where the hell do you think the final battle against Mechikabura take place ? the only reason GER still has his speed rating is because nobody bothered to make a CRT after the standard where changed.
Doesn't matter, POT Unleashed make you higher dimensional, you don't need acausality when you're higher dimensional, you're not affected to begin with.
It doesn't suggest it, it outright say they'd no sell it.
- 17,779
- 17,306
Where the hell did you get this!? How does dimensionality in any way affect whether or not you're bound by causality. At it's best interprtation it gives you Type 1 and that's it. Seriously though, you really seem to have a poor understanding of how higher dimensions work. They're just axes of movement until proven otherwise. No special immunities, no secial hax, nothing. Half the time, dimensions don't even work the way they're supposed to across fiction so I don't know where you get off claiming this.Dragomer said:
- 3,044
- 757
- Thread starter
- #75
The thing he's trying to argue is GER working on Higher-Dimensional (4-D) 2-B beings, which until shown is NLF.
- 14,422
- 11,443
Yet you literally said, and I quote,
>Everyone keep repeating the same wrong thing
So what? Are you backpedaling now? Can you not even remember your own words, you literally said everyone was saying the same thing as me and now they're not? You seem unreliable if you can't even keep that straight.
Oh ok, guess the profile is wrong then because it's listed as sealing and negation and that's what everyone, including you has been saying up to this point. Why the sudden shift in tone?
>The profile say it's how long it take to activate, not how long between each reset, we clearly see with Diavolo that it's not how you described.
At this point I'm convinced you just don't know what you're talking about, that or you're backpedaling and pretending to move the goalposts now. The profile actually doesn't say how long it takes to activate, if so point it out because I'm looking at it right now and see nothing. RTZ is instant anyway, it happens the exact moment an attack is attempted and it can even work when there's no time in a literal instant. A fuckton faster than Trunks can attack that's for certain.
>And ? where the hell do you think the final battle against Mechikabura take place ? the only reason GER still has his speed rating is because nobody bothered to make a CRT after the standard where changed.
Missed the point completely, learn to read.
>Doesn't matter, POT Unleashed make you higher dimensional, you don't need acausality when you're higher dimensional, you're not affected to begin with.
And RTZ is 4D, same with POt, so moot point, changes nothing. You actually do need acausality if you're higher dimensional, especially when you're shown to still be effected by cause and effect.
>It doesn't suggest it, it outright say they'd no sell it.
Ok so where on the profile does it say that? I'm looking but can't find it.
>Everyone keep repeating the same wrong thing
So what? Are you backpedaling now? Can you not even remember your own words, you literally said everyone was saying the same thing as me and now they're not? You seem unreliable if you can't even keep that straight.
Oh ok, guess the profile is wrong then because it's listed as sealing and negation and that's what everyone, including you has been saying up to this point. Why the sudden shift in tone?
>The profile say it's how long it take to activate, not how long between each reset, we clearly see with Diavolo that it's not how you described.
At this point I'm convinced you just don't know what you're talking about, that or you're backpedaling and pretending to move the goalposts now. The profile actually doesn't say how long it takes to activate, if so point it out because I'm looking at it right now and see nothing. RTZ is instant anyway, it happens the exact moment an attack is attempted and it can even work when there's no time in a literal instant. A fuckton faster than Trunks can attack that's for certain.
>And ? where the hell do you think the final battle against Mechikabura take place ? the only reason GER still has his speed rating is because nobody bothered to make a CRT after the standard where changed.
Missed the point completely, learn to read.
>Doesn't matter, POT Unleashed make you higher dimensional, you don't need acausality when you're higher dimensional, you're not affected to begin with.
And RTZ is 4D, same with POt, so moot point, changes nothing. You actually do need acausality if you're higher dimensional, especially when you're shown to still be effected by cause and effect.
>It doesn't suggest it, it outright say they'd no sell it.
Ok so where on the profile does it say that? I'm looking but can't find it.
- 14,422
- 11,443
Except RTZ is 4D, not 3D. It being higher dimensional means nothing because they both are.Zenkaibattery1 said:
- Status
