Low 2-C Gold Saints, and 7th Sense users (Saint Seiya)

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Saint Seiya: Gigantomaquia - A História de Mei

Os poderosos Gigantes ressurgem das entranhas do Monte Etna, no sul da Itália. Ágrios e sua força brutal, Toas e seus relâmpagos, Pallas o parvo, e Tífon, o líder de todos. Eles têm apenas um desejo: vingar-se da Deusa Atena, a defensora da humanidade. Assim tem início a Gigantomaquia, a grande...

saintseiya.fandom.com

- Precisávamos de poder para a ressurreição do grande deus! - urra Encélado, o "brado de combate". - Como sua força é colossal, precisávamos de uma energia equivalente àquela presente na concepção do Universo. Só com o sacrifício de um Cavaleiro conseguimos romper o lacre forjado por Atena! Só com o sangue de um Cavaleiro! A pulsação da vida presente no sangue quente! O Cosmo! - Encélado ergue as mãos em reverência, com o rosto encharcado de lágrimas emocionadas sob a máscara demoníaca.

It's actually Coma Berenices Mei who starts to break Typhon's seal by burning his cosmos to its absolute limit. But they say it very blatantly that "We need an energy equivalent to that present in the Universe's conception."

As for the Seiya feat, this is the translation of the Brazilian translation:

"Seiya positions himself for combat, unleashing a kind of Big Bang. When the Cosmos is elevated to its maximum, at the awakening of the Seventh Sense, to the primordial energy of the universe."

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Actually what I just posted was a Fan Translation. The Oficial Translated scans that Unshakable posted are different and more blatant.

"Seiya positions himself for combat, unleashing a kind of Big Bang. When the Cosmos is elevated to its maximum, at the awakening of the Seventh Sense, it unleashes a miraculous force, comparable only to the primordial energy of the universe.

So yeah don't use that shitty Google Translate english version.

 

[Hasch]

The giga-Novel has the big bang happening twice within it. I posted both, you had to chose that one.

As for the Seiya feat, this is the translation of the Brazilian translation:

So far both aren't literal Big Bangs, one is Seiya just atacking Agrios and the other is just him awakening his unstable 7th sense, wich obviously isn't gold saint level.

- Precisávamos de poder para a ressurreição do grande deus! - urra Encélado, o "brado de combate". - Como sua força é colossal, precisávamos de uma energia equivalente àquela presente na concepção do Universo. Só com o sacrifício de um Cavaleiro conseguimos romper o lacre forjado por Atena! Só com o sangue de um Cavaleiro! A pulsação da vida presente no sangue quente! O Cosmo! - Encélado ergue as mãos em reverência, com o rosto encharcado de lágrimas emocionadas sob a máscara demoníaca.

It's actually Coma Berenices Mei who starts to break Typhon's seal by burning his cosmos to its absolute limit. But they say it very blatantly that "We need an energy equivalent to that present in the Universe's conception."

Now that I read that whole thing, it's Mei's sacrifice + draining cosmos from all the bronce's trough several battles that accomplished that.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So far both aren't literal Big Bangs, one is Seiya just atacking Agrios and the other is just him awakening his unstable 7th sense, wich obviously isn't gold saint level.

They're both very blatantly literal Big Bang level. Whether you think it's an outlier or not is besides the point.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Here is another scans for ya from the same novel.

- O quê você fez?! O que você fez, Mei?! - grita Shun,.desesperado. Mesmo Hyoga, que nunca perde a calma, está boquiaberto com a cena. Mei estava chacinando Seiya, com a mão afundada no corpo de Seiya até a raiz dos dedos. O jovem retira a faca em um movimento brusco, fazendo com que o sangue passe ajorrar com uma intensidade ainda maior. - Esse Cosmo... Shun treme de pavor. Uma pressão formidável. Os Cavaleiros percebem que aquele não pode ser, em hipótese alguma, um soldado raso que não conseguiu chegar a Cavaleiro. Mei passa os dedos pelo rosto. Maquiagem de sangue. - Poucas vezes senti um Cosmo tão gigantesco... Essa vontade é praticamente a de...! Shun e Hyoga se afastam de Mei em um estalo, abrindo distância, incapazes de ficar tão perto daquela energia inacreditável. Esse... Isso não é o Mei! Hyoga se posiciona para o combate, tomando o meio- irmão como inimigo. - Precisávamos de poder para a ressurreição do grande deus! - urra Encélado, o "brado de combate". - Como sua força é colossal, precisávamos de uma energia equivalente àquela presente na concepção do Universo. Só com o sacrifício de um Cavaleiro conseguimos romper o lacre forjado por Atena! Só com o sangue de um Cavaleiro! A pulsação da vida presente no sangue quente! 0 Cosmo! - Encélado ergue as mãos em reverência, com o rosto encharcado de lágrimas emocionadas sob a máscara demoníaca. - Ressurreição? De quem ele tanto fala? - Ele está falando de deus, belo e jovem Andrômeda - Toas, o "relâmpago célere", surge do nada no templo subterrâneo. E ele não chega sozinho. Ágrios, a "força brutal", também está agora diante do altar e o rosto magérrimo de Pallas, o "parvo", surge na entrada da grande caverna. Os quatro Gigas cercam os Cavaleiros. - Os Cavaleiros de Atena ousaram até mesmo esquecer o nome do deus!

- What did you do?! What did you do, Mei ?! - Shun shouts, desperate. Even Hyoga, who never loses his temper, is gaping at the scene. Mei was butchering Seiya, with his hand sunk in Seiya's body to the roots of his fingers. The young man removes the knife in a sudden movement, causing the blood to flow even more intensely. - That Cosmo ... Shun trembles with dread. Formidable pressure. The Knights realize that he cannot, under any circumstances, be a private soldier who failed to reach Knight. Mei runs his fingers over his face. Blood makeup. - I rarely felt such a gigantic cosmos ... will is practically that of ...! Shun and Hyoga snap away from Mei, opening distance, unable to stay that close to that energy unbelievable. This ... This is not Mei! Hyoga positions himself for combat, taking his half brother as an enemy. - We needed power for the resurrection of the great god! - howls Enceladus, the "battle cry". - As its strength is colossal, we needed an energy equivalent to that present at the conception of the Universe. Only with the sacrifice of a Knight can we break the seal forged by Athena! Only with the blood of a Knight! The pulse of life present in the hot blood! O Cosmo! - Enceladus raises his hands in awe, his face soaked with emotional tears under the demonic mask. - Resurrection? Whom does he talk about so much? - He is talking about god, beautiful and young Andromeda - Toas, the "lightning fast", appears out of nowhere in the underground temple. And he doesn't arrive alone. Agios, the "brutal force", he is also now in front of the altar and Pallas' thin face, the "fool", appears at the entrance to the great cave. The four Gigas surround the Knights. - The Knights of Athena even dared to forget the name of the god!

 

[Hasch]

They're both very blatantly literal Big Bang level. Whether you think it's an outlier or not is besides the point.

No they aren't, just reaching the 7th sense isn't Big Bang level and neither is non 7th sense Seiya using a technique, since he reaches 7th sense after fighting Agrio.

Here is another scans for ya from the same novel.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying nobody burned their cosmos to big bang level.

The giants where draining Cosmos from all the bronces for a long time and Mei's whole body was used to awaken Typhon.


- Tem algo estranho.

- Que foi? - Seiya se vira para Hyoga.

- Sinto o corpo pesado...

- Você também?

- Acho que todos sentimos isso - diz Shun, em um tom de grande preocupação.

- Eu achava que eram resquícios da luta com o Ágrios, mas...

- Poderia até ser, se apenas eu e você, que travamos intensas batalhas com os Gigas, estivéssemos sentindo isso. Mas afetar até o Hyoga, que quase não foi atacado, não faz o menor sentido.

- Isso começou no momento em que cheguei ao Etna - revela Hyoga. - E piorou depois que entramos nesta caverna. A energia do Pó de Diamante não teve nem metade da sua potência, e ainda não consegui me recuperar.

- Eu achava que estava me sentindo assim por causa dos sangramentos ou do gás... mas não é isso. Parece que a nossa própria força está escapando do corpo.

- Não são danos das lutas - diz Mei, balançando a cabeça. - Não é o cansaço, nem o veneno no ar. É o Cosmo que está sendo sugado. A força dos Cavaleiros, a origem de todas as formas de vida... Nem adianta lutarmos. Não temos a menor chance.

- Sugado? Você fala como se algo estivesse absorvendo o nosso Cosmo...

- Exatamente - a voz de Encélado confirma a teoria de Mei. - Desde o momento em que puseram os pés no Etna, seu Cosmo vem sendo sugado, aos poucos. Esta terra está dentro do campo protetor de Flegra, as chamas terrenas que protegem a nós, os Gigas, da mesma forma que o Santuário é protegido pelas redomas de Atena - a criatura tem plena consciência do impacto de suas revelações nos Cavaleiros. - Neste lugar, aqueles que não trajam o Adamas jamais se recuperam dos danos sofridos. Cada vez que queimam seu Cosmo, a energia é sugada pelo campo de força. Isso significa que, enquanto existir a redoma protetora de Flegra, nunca serei derrotado, nem mesmo pelos 88 Cavaleiros reunidos!

- Não é possível... Quer dizer que nosso Cosmo estava sendo sugado a cada ataque que lançamos? - os Cavaleiros de Atena estão perplexos.

- A luz que ilumina estas cavernas também deve vir dessas tais chamas terrenas - conclui Seiya.

- Nós, recém-despertos, não estávamos em número suficiente para atacarmos à força o Santuário protegido por Atena... - continua Encélado. - Mas bastou raptar uma garotinha para conseguirmos roubar toda a sua energia... Com a garota são quatro apenas, e da hierarquia mais baixa... Só Bronze não será suficiente para saciar a fome do deus, mas... Por ora, morram! - grita o Giga, erguendo a bengala maligna e se concentrando para liberar seu poder de destruição.

- Aí vem outra onda de impacto! - a tensão da corrente de Andrômeda aumenta ainda mais.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

No they aren't, just reaching the 7th sense isn't Big Bang level and neither is non 7th sense Seiya using a technique, since he reaches 7th sense after fighting Agrio.




I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying nobody burned their cosmos to big bang level.

You realize you're arguing against the narration, and the Giga's. Who work under Typhoon whom were trying to unseal him, correct?

 

[Hasch]

You realize you're arguing against the narration, and the Giga's. Who work under Typhoon whom were trying to unseal him, correct?

Narration must be read in context tho.

It's clear those 2 first sentences aren't literal, the last one has a whole page explaining how they gradually build up the required Big Bang level cosmos.

 

[Antvasima]

I would go for "At least 3-C, possibly Low 2-C" as a compromise honestly. They have a lot of feats on both ends.

So should we use this solution?

 

[Hasch]

So should we use this solution?

I would agree to 3C possibly 3A.

As I said, all titans where extremely nerfed and had fake memories, nothing at all like when they fought their kids, who are the ones with actual 2C feats. The whole Episode G manga is a staged battle by Pontos using Mnemosyne to nerf the titans so the Golds can kill them and he can revive Gaia.

Exceptions would be the G golds with power ups like Dunamis and Zeus thunder.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I am looking for a calc for Classic series saga atm

may take me some time.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, a big bang featured as an explosion does not exceed a 3-A scale of power as far as I am aware, so I am personally fine with "At least 3-C, possibly 3-A".

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Well, a big bang featured as an explosion does not exceed a 3-A scale of power as far as I am aware, so I am fine with "At least 3-C, possibly 3-A".

The big bang in saint seiya gave birth to Time alongside the universe. Additionally, Gemini Saga's "3-C" feat is calc'able. The destruction of all atoms in the milk way galaxy as an omnidirectional blast. I am currently looking into that. This is in regards to changing the "at least 3-C"

 

[Hasch]

Additionally, Gemini Saga's "3-C" feat is calc'able. The destruction of all atoms in the milk way galaxy as an omnidirectional blast. I am currently looking into that.

But he isn't destroying every atom in the galaxy...

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so "At least 3-C, possibly Low 2-C" then?

 

[Hasch]

Okay, so "At least 3-C, possibly Low 2-C" then?

If it's only based on the Athena exclamation which needs 3 Golds maybe.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

But he isn't destroying every atom in the galaxy...

That would go against the entire very source of power that is established in the verse.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

If it's only based on the Athena exclamation which needs 3 Golds maybe.

no its not based off that. its based off a mountain of other evidence we have been discussing for the past 4 pages

 

[Hasch]

That would go against the entire very source of power that is established in the verse.

They target the atoms to break things, they don't break every atom in an object.

That's why the main pilar in the poseidon arc wasn't "deleted"

no its not based off that. its based off a mountain of other evidence we have been discussing for the past 4 pages

But most of that where mistranslations and hiperbole, when it wasn't it was contradicted by more evidence.

Hence 3c, posibly 3A with AE.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I will come back to this later. As i am busy currently.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Well, a big bang featured as an explosion does not exceed a 3-A scale of power as far as I am aware, so I am personally fine with "At least 3-C, possibly 3-A".

It created time, it's Low 2-C.

 

[Hasch]

Why would creating time make it low multiversal?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Big Bang

To quote from Wikipedia: "The Big Bang is the cosmological model of the universe, originally conceived to describe its origins, that is best supported by all cosmological observations. The essential idea is that the universe has expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some...

vsbattles.fandom.com

If the big bang affects or creates time, we treat it as Low 2-C

 

[Hasch]

Yeap, mixed it up with high 3A.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so "At least 3-C, possibly Low 2-C" then?

 

[Hasty12345]

GE has been called galxy level like 50 times trough the whole franchise

yes, because gold saints SECRETLY could destroy the universe. this invalidates all prior claims of power. If the wording suggested it was a known fact, then it would be considered an outlier statement.

AE is not a secret technique, nor can it destroy a universe as it's focused on a single point....

"power to destroy an reshape the universe"= That is literally talking about the power of "love", it's not literal in any way.

emotion being a source of power doesn't render the statement in anyway invalid.

Shion further states that gold saints cosmo as STRONG as the big bang, not "power of the big bang", not "power of cosmo which originated with the big bang" but AS STRONG as the BIG BANG.

coupled with a CLEAR CUT statement of gold saints being able to destroy the universe, and SHAKA ON PANEL CREATING COUNTLESS UNIVERSES.

The problem is that the "power level" of saints fluctuate so much it's ridiculous, at their peak they're all capable of low 2-C power, Seiya has demonstrated this many times and the golds are stated on this level twice with Shaka having an on panel feat that clearly demonstrates those statements hold some validity.

I'm fine with "Galaxy level at most/possibly/at peak universal+" whatever is agreed upon.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Exactly. The Saints are not static, wasn't stated by Mu in Episode G that Cosmo is a infinite power which is why they jump in power so much?

 

[Hasty12345]

Exactly. The Saints are not static, wasn't stated by Mu in Episode G that Cosmo is a infinite power which is why they jump in power so much?

Aiolos also states he has infinite power that rests within his cosmo, however, he might be a special case as he might be some reciprocal of Pontos which is implied in GA.

However, we see the bronzes raise their cosmo infinitely to activate their God Cloths so saints fluctuating so much is just a matter of how much cosmo they use.

 

[Starbrand_Fan]

Why would creating time make it low multiversal?

Dude..Low 2-C is Universe level+, 2-C is Low Multiverse level

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Exactly. The Saints are not static, wasn't stated by Mu in Episode G that Cosmo is a infinite power which is why they jump in power so much?

The infinite power thing comes from Miracles. which can jump someone to being above the Gods. so it gives a massive tier jumps.

 

[Antvasima]

I would go for "At least 3-C, possibly Low 2-C" as a compromise honestly. They have a lot of feats on both ends.

@Matthew_Schroeder @Ultima_Reality @Shadowbokunohero

So should we use this option?

 

[AerrowStorm1]

I would say "Low 2-C" for the top tiers (Aiolia, Seiya, Shun, Aiolus, Shaka, etc) since so many of them have evidence of being Near or At Big Bang Levels.

The lower tier Gold Saints such as Deathmask and Aphrodite get "3-C, possibly low 2-C" since they're not as powerful.

Seiya himself has way too much proof to be anything other than Low 2-C.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I think tier 3-C (Galaxy Level) is a bit non-sensical. There is only a couple to like 4 statements retaining to 1 galaxy. Even then it can be calc'ed at something much higher than tier 3-C/Galaxy Level.

1.) We are told that the 7th sense which Gold Saints absolutely have to master. The 7th sense is the power of the Conception/birth of the primordial universe/Big Bang.

2.) Tier 3-C in itself is non-seneschal. see the below pictures.

3.) Galaxian Explosion is compared to Photon Burst by Saga his ownself. Photon Burst has power comparable to the big bang

4.) Galaxian Explosion was able to make cronos in his astral form retreat which was the form he used to defeat Uranus according to Cronos

5.) Lightening Bolt by Leo Aiolia scales to Tenma Kofuku and that Scales to Galaxian Explosion again. The Lightening bolt technique was able to break a Divine Weapon made by Gaia, the Soma whom Hyperion wields.

6.) Lapeto despite being in his own world. having the power he had in the age of Myth, and Absorbing the power of all his Inhabitants, and after creating his own Universe again. Lapeto had to dodge Tenma Kofuku. EDIT: Also, when Lapeto uses his wife as a weapon and absorbs her power. Shaka's Kan is able to hold off the attack for a short period of time.








Here is a couple of examples why I think Tier 3-C/Galaxy Level is non-sensical


Exhibit A.)

Galaxian Explosion vs Galaxian Explosion.

Exhibit B.) Galaxian Explosion is described as "disintegrating Galaxies."

Exhibit C.) Currently waiting on Calc members to evaluate a calc, or steer me in the proper direction to get a calc done..............

 

[Hasch]

I think tier 3-C (Galaxy Level) is a bit non-sensical. There is only a couple to like 4 statements retaining to 1 galaxy

Bullshit, there's at least 1 in each spin off, out of memory there's at least 3 in G and 3+ in the OG manga

1.) We are told that the 7th sense which Gold Saints absolutely have to master. The 7th sense is the power of the Conception/birth of the primordial universe/Big Bang.

7th sense varies wildly, from star level and up seeing the Libra weapons and that galaxy level power is reserved for the strongest gold saints techniques.

We are also told Cosmos itself is the power from the Big Bang, even normal bronce saints "mimic the creation of the universe" with their battle moves, using Cosmos is causing a Big Bang in their inner universe

3.) Galaxian Explosion is compared to Photon Burst by Saga his ownself. Photon Burst has power comparable to the big bang

Again, that only proves PB is galaxy level.

Both GE and TK are stated galaxy level and compared to PB, so why would we discard those 2 comments for the single PB 1?

Lapeto despite being in his own world. having the power he had in the age of Myth, and Absorbing the power of all his Inhabitants, and after creating his own Universe again. Lapeto had to dodge Tenma Kofuku. EDIT: Also, when Lapeto uses his wife as a weapon and absorbs her power. Shaka's Kan is able to hold off the attack for a short period of time.

Dimension Iapeteos never said he created a universe, he said he created "another world" meaning a paralel dimension, which is of unknow size, also I think the golds where also amped by soma in that fight while Iapetos still didn't have his memories.

Galaxian Explosion vs Galaxian Explosion.

If you mean the dialogue "like the universe started" then you have nothing, since the clash is also compared to the concept of "good vs evil"

Also, it's two techniques at once not the power of a single GE, which is galaxy level in LC, which isn't even canon to the OG manga.

Exhibit B.) Galaxian Explosion is described as "disintegrating Galaxies."

There's no plural in japanese.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Bullshit, there's at least 1 in each spin off, out of memory there's at least 3 in G and 3+ in the OG manga

Yeah I don't remember that many statements of singular use of galaxy.

Either way it still falls apart with a simple calc which i am currently working on.

7th sense varies wildly, from star level and up seeing the Libra weapons

Libra weapons are irrelevant. In fact, they are so much higher than Gold Saints it is insane. + Your statement relies heavily on Seiya who is a teenage kids that should know nothing about the Libra Weapons.

Here is a quick summary of the Libra Weapon feats

1.) Blocked attack from Pontos that were bloodlusted, and he was annoyed that someone was getting in the way of him controlling Aiolia

2.) They blocked attacks from Alone- Hades whom was stated stronger than Hypnos and Thanatos

3.) They blocked an attack from Poseidon

4.) Thy were stated stronger than the combined power of all 12 gold saints combined

5.) The Libra Sword put a crack into the Cataclysm Slash which was stated to be equal to or greater than Abzu and later it stalemated a super over powered Athena Exclamation

6.) The Libra Weapons turned the tide of a war of Ares + Eris and a couple of other Gods. Which led to Ares retreating into the underworld.

7.) They destroyed Poseidon's pillars which were supported by his will.

They are not star level! Seiya's statement is immediately contradicted.

Question, How did you get star level Gold Saints? When by virtue of downscaling by wiki standards that would be impossible.

and that galaxy level power is reserved for the strongest gold saints techniques.

Do you have any idea how many Gold saints have the statements of "I am the strongest?" Also the "Strongest Gold Saint Technique" Gets immediately contradicted by scaling, and shown feats. So that statement isn't really usable.

We are also told Cosmos itself is the power from the Big Bang, even normal bronce saints "mimic the creation of the universe" with their battle moves, using Cosmos is causing a Big Bang in their inner universe

Your argument here falls apart due the elaborate explanation we get about the 7th sense, + the supporting feats that follow after it which have been talked about thousands of times on this thread. This will not scale to bronze saints or silver saints as they do not have the 7th sense. This would only scale to the main character + Those whom they are equal too or those greater than them.

Again, that only proves PB is galaxy level.

This has been talked about to death on why its wrong.

Both GE and TK are stated galaxy level and compared to PB, so why would we discard those 2 comments for the single PB 1?

Why are you disregarding the scaling, and feats which contradict your Galaxy Level thesis? Also, Why are you saying there is just 1 Big bang statement for photon burst when there is 5+

Scaling and feats >>>>> Statements

Dimension Iapeteos never said he created a universe, he said he created "another world" meaning a paralel dimension, which is of unknow size,

You are wrong here, and here its stated to be a Universe.

also I think the golds where also amped by soma in that fight while Iapetos still didn't have his memories.

During the scene with Lapeto no. They were not

and it was only Aiolia and Shura later received power but they were not permanent. Aiolia didn't receive anything until after the fight with Lapeto iirc. However, Shaka didn't receive anything.

If you mean the dialogue "like the universe started" then you have nothing, since the clash is also compared to the concept of "good vs evil"

Also, it's two techniques at once not the power of a single GE, which is galaxy level in LC, which isn't even canon to the OG manga.

you missed my point. There is 6+ Galaxies on the panel that I have shown. so even if you were to divide that up. it is still multi-galaxy.

There's no plural in japanese.

They don't have any way to add an "S" at the end of their words. However, they have indicative words such as few, several, many. etc

You can't stonewall the thread forever.

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew_Schroeder @Ultima_Reality @Shadowbokunohero

What should we do here?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think dude is being very stubborn by insisting every single mention of Big Bang is purely metaphorical.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I think dude is being very stubborn by insisting every single mention of Big Bang is purely metaphorical.

What do you think should be done?

I don't think no matter what we do, or what we say. Hasch, I believe is strongly against Low 2-C as far I am aware. He appears to be the only one strongly against/opposed to it.

There was someone who said "At least 3-C up to Low 2-C At their stronges/Maximum power" on the first page of this thread. However, going this route. What tier would the keys be for Julian Solo, Kido Saori, and Alone using Hades power? They were originally tier 3-A before this thread.

Then there is the proposal of "At least 3-C likely/possibly Low 2-C" However, this causes a problem with the Host body of the gods like the Keys for Julian Solo, and Alone using Hades power

In my opinion, i think just a plain Low 2-C tier has enough evidence.

Also, if we can get a calc member to calculate the yield for sub-atomization of the Milky way galaxy. I am almost positive it would yield 3-B results. Which would change the Tier 3-C mentioned above this sentence/paragraph. ( I am currently working on this method but its not going well )

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There was someone who said "At least 3-C up to Low 2-C At their stronges/Maximum power" on the first page of this thread. However, going this route. What tier would the keys be for Julian Solo, Kido Saori, and Alone using Hades power? They were originally tier 3-A before this thread.

I think the gods would straight up be Low 2-C. They scale above the maximum output of Gold Saints.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I think the gods would straight up be Low 2-C. They scale above the maximum output of Gold Saints.

Including the Lost Canvas Rhad when he reicieved power from Hades blood or heart ( i forgot which one it was)

Also, what about regulus? With Zodiac Exclamation?


What should the Gold Saints be?

At least 3-C up to Low 2-C at maximum power

Or

At least 3-C Possibly/Likely Low 2-C?

What happens if we finally get a Calc for Saga's Galaxian explosion?