"Lower" ratings (Staff Only)

[KingTempest]

I've noticed we've had "higher" ratings on our Attack Potency page but not "lower" ratings.

Maybe it's because transformations or abilities that make characters weaker/slower are rare? Idk, but if we have 'at most" ratings, we should have "lower" ratings.

I wanted to use this for Monkey D. Luffy who is stated to be slower with one of his forms, but we had no "lower" rating that could be used for speed.

It could just be like the higher justification, but reversed.

Lower​

This should be used to denote a character's weapons, techniques, or attributes that are much weaker than their base level, but still within the same tier. For example, a character that is Solar System level but has an attack that divides their power by 100 times. In this instance it should be written as “Solar System level, lower with that ability or technique”.

Furthermore, lower may also be used to denote a case where the character is possibly or likely a lower tier, but to what degree is not specified. This is specifically referring to cases such as “At most 4-B, likely lower” or “At most Solar System level, likely lower”.

 

[Cul0r]

I need this, please add this, it will definetly apply to a good ton of verses.

 

[KingTempest]

Informed to be moved to Staff Discussions

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Very interesting. This doesn't come up very often, but it DOES come up every now and then. I think this would be helpful overall, so it has my agreement for what it's worth.

Edit: Sorry, I made my comment before this was moved to Staff Discussions.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

This makes sense, I mean it's rare, but it definitely happens

 

[Antoniofer]

People genrally uses the Likely, At most or Possibly when a rating unquantificable lower, like, first form its Subsonic but when it transform its body mass increases and thus its movements becomes more clumsy, then the rating goes At most Subsonic. If its quantificable lower, like, first form was as fast as a speeding vehicle but the second form its as fast as a dog then its simply rated dog fast or alike.

 

[KingTempest]

People genrally uses the Likely, At most or Possibly when a rating unquantificable lower, like, first form its Subsonic but when it transform its body mass increases and thus its movements becomes more clumsy, then the rating goes At most Subsonic. If its quantificable lower, like, first form was as fast as a speeding vehicle but the second form its as fast as a dog then its simply rated dog fast or alike.

This is just confusing. Especially for people with faster forms after

"A-1, at most A-1 with this, higher with that, even higher with that"

It'd be better to do this

"A-1, lower with this, higher with that, even higher with that"

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Agree with the proposals.

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT @AKM sama @Promestein @Ultima_Reality

What do you think about this?

 

[DontTalkDT]

I suppose this is fine

 

[ElixirBlue]

I agree

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, despite the point I made early, I'm not really against this, it even sounds nice. The difference between "higher/lower" and "at least/most" its minimal either way, is just that the last one tend to be used in different keys.

 

[Promestein]

This is just confusing. Especially for people with faster forms after

"A-1, at most A-1 with this, higher with that, even higher with that"

It'd be better to do this

"A-1, lower with this, higher with that, even higher with that"

Lower with what? Lower in base form? That's just shitty illogical formatting.

 

[Peter1129]

Lower with what? Lower in base form? That's just shitty illogical formatting.

Well for example in the Ultra Series we have Ultraman Tiga who has three basic forms. His balanced/base form Multi-Type, his strength form Power-Type, and his speed form Sky-Type. And it’s explicitly stated in series that when he uses Power-Type his strength increases but his speed decreases and Sky-Type does the opposite and increases his speed but decreases his strength. So if his profile is made it would look something like this

Attack Potency: 4-A, lower with Sky-Type, higher with Power-Type, far higher with Glitter

Speed: Massively FTL+, lower with Power-Type, higher with Sky-Type and Glitter

And uhh sorry for barging in on a Staff only thread. Just wanted to give an example of a character whose stat decreases with a different form.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Lower with what? Lower in base form? That's just shitty illogical formatting.

Apologies for intruding on a staff-only thread, but Tempest is talking about forms that decrease certain stats. The "Lower" in the example above is for a hypothetical form that debuffs certain stats.
Example: Super Saiyan Grade 3 decreasing speed significantly due to increased muscle mass.

 

[MistaClean]

This looks fine.

 

[KingTempest]

Well for example in the Ultra Series we have Ultraman Tiga who has three forms. His balanced/base form Multi-Type, his strength form Power-Type, and his speed form Sky-Type. And it’s explicitly stated in series that when he uses Power-Type his power increases but his speed decreases and Sky-Type does the opposite and increases his speed but decreases his strength. So if he has a profile it would just be

Attack Potency: 4-A, lower with Sky-Type, higher with Power-Type, far higher with Glitter

Speed: Massively FTL+, lower with Power-Type, higher with Sky-Type and Glitter

And uhh sorry for barging in on a Staff only thread. Just wanted to give an example of a character whose stat decreases with a different form.

Apologies for intruding on a staff-only thread, but Tempest is talking about forms that decrease certain stats. The "Lower" in the example above is for a hypothetical form that debuffs certain stats.
Example: Super Saiyan Grade 3 decreasing speed significantly due to increased muscle mass.

You guys pretty much explained it perfectly, thanks

Sorry if I made it confusing Prom

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Don't some of the IRL profiles already have these?

 

[KingTempest]

Don't some of the IRL profiles already have these?

I have no idea if they do tbh

 

[CloverDragon03]

Pretty sure a "lower" rating has always been a thing but yeah, it's been used so little that it may as well have not existed.

This looks fine to me.

 

[Promestein]

Alright, gotcha, I was just confused.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think this is fine, but it does seem like a situational thing. Like lower when exhausted or "Getting weaker due to old age" and various characters who go through things like that.

 

[KingTempest]

I think this is fine, but it does seem like a situational thing. Like lower when exhausted or "Getting weaker due to old age" and various characters who go through things like that.

Some people do have cases like that, but others like in the OP just have techniques or transformations that are slower than their regular combat speed for weaker forms (like in the OP)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This seems fine.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I think this is fine, but it does seem like a situational thing. Like lower when exhausted or "Getting weaker due to old age" and various characters who go through things like that.

Sorry for talking in a staff only thread

but basically, this thread is to the type of characters that have transformations/powers that makes them slower or weaker with certain abilities, such as Gear 3 from Luffy, which makes him stronger, but it makes him slower, or Ultra Super Saiyan, that despite making the user vastly stronger, it makes them far slower, it is not a situational thing such as exhausted or age, it is a pretty common thing in fiction which is not situational

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like this has been accepted so far, but since it is an important formatting change, we should preferably wait for more input before applying it.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Some people do have cases like that, but others like in the OP just have techniques or transformations that are slower than their regular combat speed for weaker forms (like in the OP)

Another example would be Third Grade Super Saiyan, as that is explicitly stated to make the user slower due to the increased muscle mass.

 

[KingTempest]

We have 8 staff members who accepted it so far. Should we wait for more?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I would personally prefer if we wait some more in order to make certain, but after that we can likely apply this, yes.

 

[AKM sama]

Seems like this will promote backward scaling more. For example, in cases where we give a higher tier for a transformation but don't backscale it to lower forms, even when people make arguments like "well the lower form should not be that much weaker", I am guessing this would promote ratings like

"6-A in higher transformation, lower in lower transformation"

when normally we would list it as (say)

"6-B with lower transformation, 6-A with higher transformation"

 

[Antvasima]

That is a good point.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

All staff members:

So what should we do here then?

 

[Damage3245]

AKM makes a good point.

I'd have to see more examples of this in practice to see how useful it is compared to the alternative on profiles currently.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Seems like this will promote backward scaling more. For example, in cases where we give a higher tier for a transformation but don't backscale it to lower forms, even when people make arguments like "well the lower form should not be that much weaker", I am guessing this would promote ratings like

"6-A in higher transformation, lower in lower transformation"

when normally we would list it as (say)

"6-B with lower transformation, 6-A with higher transformation"

You bring up a valid point, but some transformations lower stats for some and yet are a transformation, so I think having "Lower" is still a good idea, it also immediately tells a viewer that a certain transformation lowers the stats of the character and doesn't make them higher

For instance, with your method, we'd have to be like this

"6-B with Transformation, higher in Base Form"

I just don't like the look of that, I'm a big proponent of Base Forms being the first rating listed

Not to mention, rarely does a transformation lower stats, making Lower a minor addition that causes no problems

 

[AKM sama]

Apart from the couple of examples already listed here, I would also like to see more instances where such a thing will be applicable.

 

[KingTempest]

Apart from the couple of examples already listed here, I would also like to see more instances where such a thing will be applicable.

Whitebeard in One Piece in his final deteriorating key.

6-B, lower overtime (Gets weaker the more he fights)

 

[AKM sama]

Wouldn't that fit more as an explanation in stamina or weakness section? That's probably true for many characters.

 

[KingTempest]

Wouldn't that fit more as an explanation in stamina or weakness section? That's probably true for many characters.

It could fit in both. It's like giving reactive power level for a "higher" overtime.

 

[AKM sama]

Both are totally different things. Even if we implement the "lower" rating concept, we are not going to use it for things like that. That stuff is pretty normal for 99% characters and belongs in the stamina/weakness section.