Minor Deltarune Revision - Nonbinary Kris

[AyOgUyS]

Hi. The purpose of this CRT is to change Kris' gender from "Unknown" to "Non-binary" and add a note onto their page that states "Kris exclusively and explicitly uses They/Them pronouns, indicating they are nonbinary."

Kris is exclusively referred to in Deltarune with singular they/them pronouns and unlike Chara and Frisk, they are explicitly their own character separate from us, the Player. Every single character in Deltarune that ever refers to Kris, including those close to Kris, only does so using they/them. Toby Fox also referred to Kris as "they” right after someone else had previously referred to Kris as "he" (should be noted that Toby was using a TTS to talk so his statements were very likely delayed), indicating that yes, the intention is for Kris to be nonbinary.

Should be pretty straightforward and uncontroversial.

Agree: @Echidnacodefan2512, @LittleGuy99, @The_Renegade_Slugger, @Randomuser3412, @Ghengiroo115, @Edutyn, @GrathOfLux (Admin & HR), @Comiphorous, @IDK3465
Neutral:
Disagree: @Omegabronic

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

Agree

 

[LittleGuy99]

Agree

 

[The_Renegade_Slugger]

Something something, agree

 

[Randomuser3412]

Something something, agree

Oh, dear... it just keeps growing day after day (agree)

 

[The_Renegade_Slugger]

Agree

DAMN beat me by a second

 

[AyOgUyS]

Something something, agree

ITS OVER NINE THOUSAND!!

(hopefully one day...)

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Agree, hopefully this’ll be uncontroversial.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Agree, hopefully this’ll be uncontroversial.

There's really no reason at all for this to be even remotely controversial, its one of the most blatant examples of a nonbinary character imo.

 

[Edutyn]

Agree

Not clear enought, gime another 100 references.

Agree

 

[Lilybitdun]

Toby Fox referred to Kris as "they” right after someone else had previously referred to Kris as "he", indicating that yes, the intention is for Kris to be nonbinary.

You should prob put the scan of when this happened

 

[AyOgUyS]

You should prob put the scan of when this happened

Eh sure I'll look for it

 

[AyOgUyS]

Ok found the clip:

Admittedly I misremembered it but should still be notable

 

[GrathOfLux]

Are you suggesting changing the "Gender" section specifically to list "They/Them"? There is no dedicated pronoun section on the page to my knowledge.

I believe we'd normally use the Gender section to list something more along the lines of "Non-Binary", and I'd generally prefer this - but if there are examples on the wiki of simply listing the character's pronouns in that space then that's no fuss. In any case, I'm surprised it's remained with "Unknown" for this long, and I support changing it to better communicate this element one way or another.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Are you suggesting changing the "Gender" section specifically to list "They/Them"? There is no dedicated pronoun section on the page to my knowledge.

I believe we'd normally use the Gender section to list something more along the lines of "Non-Binary", and I'd generally prefer this - but if there are examples on the wiki of simply listing the character's pronouns in that space then that's no fuss. In any case, I'm surprised it's remained with "Unknown" for this long, and I support changing it to better communicate this element one way or another.

I think I wasn't clear enough, I'll edit the OP in a bit but I'm suggesting Kris' gender be changed to "Non-binary" like in this page.

Edit: Maybe an additional note that Kris uses exclusively they/them would be nice as well, will add to OP

 

[GrathOfLux]

That should be fine.

 

[AyOgUyS]

That should be fine.

Is this revision considered minor enough that your vote alone is enough, or do I need more staff input?

 

[Comiphorous]

Someone should at some point fix it on Frisk/Chara's page as well. Those two have been unknown for some time as well. despite also being non-binary characters as well.

Anyways, yeah this is simple i agree.

Edit: Actually, it's very simple. I should just do it myself.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Made a minor adjustment to the OP.

 

[IDK3465]

Agree lol

 

[Omegabronic]

Hi. The purpose of this CRT is to change Kris' gender from "Unknown" to "Non-binary" and add a note onto their page that states "Kris exclusively and explicitly uses They/Them pronouns, indicating they are nonbinary."

Kris is exclusively referred to in Deltarune with singular they/them pronouns

"They/Them" actually are gender neutral pronouns, we don't know what gender Kris identifies as, if any, they can equally be used for people who don't identify as any gender at all, or, for an outside meta perspective, simply be used as a way to not reveal or indicate any gender for a character for any particular reason or another

and unlike Chara and Frisk, they are explicitly their own character separate from us, the Player.

I don't see how that proves anything? Or correlates for that matter? They/Them is STILL not Nonbinary exclussive, pronouns alone don't prove any particular gender in this case regardless of Kris being their own character or not

Every single character in Deltarune that ever refers to Kris, including those close to Kris, only does so using they/them.

You would still need to prove this is because they are, specifically, Nonbinary, instead of not identifying as any gender, or because Toby simply didn't want to asign a specific gender to them and simply wanted to leave it open to interpretation

Toby Fox also referred to Kris as "they” right after someone else had previously referred to Kris as "he" (should be noted that Toby was using a TTS to talk so his statements were very likely delayed), indicating that yes, the intention is for Kris to be nonbinary.

Toby didn't correct them, nor did anyone there seemed to even notice that "he" was used... again, pronouns alone do not prove gender here, the pronoun is gender neutral, not Nonbinary exclusive

So i disagree, the page already conveys the true meaning of "they/them" as being neutral and capable of referring to any gender, aka, we simply don't know Kris' gender as of now

 

[AyOgUyS]

So i disagree, the page already conveys the true meaning of "they/them" as being neutral and capable of referring to any gender, aka, we simply don't know Kris' gender as of now

Isn't there literally an area in Deltarune with the dialogue "...non-men are allowed too." and in another place "...non-girls are allowed too."? If that isn't Toby telling us Kris is nonbinary, I really don't know what it could be. Also gender neutral really only applies in the case that you don't know somebody's gender which shouldn't be applicable to Kris because even their close friends and family who should definitely know their gender exclusively refer to them with they/them.

Edit: Also like, agender falls under nonbinary anyway

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Isn't there literally an area in Deltarune with the dialogue "...non-men are allowed too." and in another place "...non-girls are allowed too."? If that isn't Toby telling us Kris is nonbinary, I really don't know what it could be.

Yeah like

 

[AyOgUyS]

Yeah like

Thanks!
I was too lazy to find the exact quote

 

[Omegabronic]

Isn't there literally an area in Deltarune with the dialogue "...non-men are allowed too." and in another place "...non-girls are allowed too."? If that isn't Toby telling us Kris is nonbinary, I really don't know what it could be.

You mean man country? That part doesn't tell us if it is refering to Kris, it could be equally refering to the Seven Aces that are throughout the map in that section

Also, again, equally can be because Kris has no gender/Is agender, or cause Toby doesn't want to comfirm anything about that part of Kris's character

Edit: Also like, agender falls under nonbinary anyway

No it doesn't, agender = doesn't identify as any specific gender

Nonbinary is a gender, aka, not agender

Also for more reasons as to why "They/Them" is used in its gender neutral way


Toby uses "They/Them" for Monster Kid specifically because he didn't want to assign any specific gender to them, so we have precedent for how and why Toby uses "They/Them" for his characters

 

[AyOgUyS]

No it doesn't, agender = doesn't identify as any specific gender

Nonbinary is a gender, aka, not agender

Doesn't nonbinary just refer to any gender identity outside of the traditional male/female gender binary? Agender would logically fall under that as both are gender identities outside of the traditional male/female gender binary.

Toby uses "They/Them" for Monster Kid specifically because he didn't want to assign any specific gender to them, so we have precedent for how and why Toby uses "They/Them" for his characters

Monster Kid is also a vastly different character than Kris.