My Little Pony: Equestria Girls Upgrade Top-Tiers : " At least Low 2-C "

[Antvasima]

Which profiles were updated and what statistics did you change them to?

We need considerably more staff input before we apply any massive upgrades to the regular MLP cast though.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I made mention to them above. It was Twilight Sparkle (Sci-Twi) [Geode and Midnight] , Gloriossa Daisy [Full Transformation] , Sunset Shimmer [Pony-Up, Daydream, Geodes] , and the Dazzlings (Powered Up only).

I know this and understand that. We are just trying to organize our thoughts so it'd be easier to explain once we invite more staff.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, and what statistics did they get?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Dazzlings got At least Low 2-C

Twilight Sparkle got straight up 2-C for both of her forms.

Sunset has At least Low 2-C for her Pony-Up Form, 2-C for Geode and Daydream Forms

Gloriossa became 2-C.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, and what were the justifications?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

In a nutshell Sci-Twi nearly destroyed two realities while being extremely casual with it. Due to the casualness it was agreed for the feat to make her 2-C due to how close to 2-C almost destroying it would equate to [roughly 80-90% of 2-C, and casual feats in the show indicating more than at least 2x the feat, like Celestia and her Sun feat] . Sunset scales due to casually reversing the feat in question and making Midnight use more power than doing the feat to fight her , but was still losing the fight and needed a distraction to overpower her..

The Powered-Up Dazzlings took on, and oneshotted the combined effort of the same Elements that created Daydream, so they would be somewhat comparable to Midnight/Daydream, but not enough to make them 2-C, so they'd be "At least Low 2-C" but on such a scale they would reach 2-C if they gained any additional power-ups

Gloriossa was a power that required Midnight to be birthed again to defeat, directly implying she is 2-C as well.

Pony-Up Sci-Twi & Geodes reach it by being superior to Gloriossa, whose comparable to Midnight/Daydream

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I am very uncertain about scaling Gloriosa and the characters scaled to her in turn that high though. Their displayed scale of power did not seem to warrant it from what I recall.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I can understand your concern, but there really isn't anything contradicting it essentially. We've had upgades that seemed outlandish before as long as it has logic, and there are statements that show that Midnight's feat, even though on a scale above most in the verse, isn't neccessarily unreachable to the verse. If it were unreachable Gloriossa wouldn't have been compared the ways she did, or It was more due to the fact Sunset stopped Midnight before she effectively destroyed both realities. And like the original show, it's only scalable to Element level entities within EqG, not neccessarily everyone in the cast .

Plus it does help that they haven't been overpowered by anything far less to those who are stated to comparable to such a feat.In other words, asides those who explicitly scale to the feat in question, there isn't any feats done to them significantly less that they are shown to struggle with. It's only threats comparative to Midnight, so that strengthens it's legitimacy.

 

[Lightbuster30]

A. They are superior to the power that created Sunset Shimmer though. Sunset Shimmer reversed the world destruction by absorbing 5 out of 6 Elements. The Dazzlings were comparable to all 6 of them at once.
B. DoggoRoboto brought up multiple parallel timelines in the EqG world which makes destroying it a bit above 2-C actually.

C. I actually disagree with 2-C in the first place. I do not think Equestria was in danger. I don't even think the alternate timelines contained in the EqGverse were in danger either. No proof they were in danger, and I'm not seeing proof the terms "world" or "universe" included separate timelines from the main one.

But as far as Equestria not being in danger? I'm on the phone and that explanation requires a bit more detail. Expect an elaboration soon. Or not. Depends on when I get home and to a real computer.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Worlds refer to both Equestria Girls & Equestria in their entirety since literally throughout the entirety of EqG Universe is stated more times to refer to it's totality than planet, which really is only implied twice out of perhaps 5 different occassions of Universe being used more. And I never included "alternate timelines", just the main universes of Equestria and Equestria respectively. I didn't use the alternate timelines to upgrade them, because as you said, and I agree with, there isn't evidence those timelines within Equestria Girls were affected so much as the original timelines. And if you remember you did see some of the Equestrians respond to the tearing so it was affecting them to some extent on their side, whichc didn't fully because again it was reversed.

Feel free to attempt to debunk this but expect some hard countering.

IF you are successful in debunking it being 2-C , what tier do you want it changed to ?

 

[Lightbuster30]

IF you are successful in debunking it being 2-C , what tier do you want it changed to ?

Low 2-C obviously. Midnight Sparkle was literally ripping open the fabric of her reality.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Okay then fair enough. I was slightly worried you wouldn't want it to be Tier 2 anymore, but I still will defend the upgrade.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Seems fine

 

[Lightbuster30]

Just for the record, I never said that world = planet in My Little Pony. 9/10 I usually take it as universe. What I said was: "and I'm not seeing any proof the terms "world" or "universe" (notice how I used "or" and was using them in the same context) included separate timelines from the main one." That's all I said: That universe does not include parallel timelines.

I'll form my points later.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The EQG Elements evolved to defeat the Dazzlings as otherwise they would've gotten stomped by them. Then evolved in Geodes. The Elements are comparable in the sense they evolve over time to a certain extent unless contradicted severely.


@Sparkle I'll answer your question either on said thread or if another is made

Why would they have gotten stomped by the Dazzlings' otherwise? The Dazzlings are only considered 4-B because they fought against the elements. They didn't evolve, they just won because Sunset joined.

Why don't you just answer it here? It's very relevant.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I don't know if this should scale to anything except the Elements though.

The Pony of Shadows. And potntially FP Tirek because it took a special variant of the elements to defeat him.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I mentioned this to the Admins when they accpeted it, but I'll go ahead and lay it all out in quite a bit of detail :

• Due to the Dazzlings together being shown to be comparable to the combined power of the same Elements that created Daydream Shimmer, that makes her almost 2-C, but not actually there, hence "At least Low 2-C", and separately they'd be Low 2-C's of ridiculous power, but not at 2-C ... but extremely close. The Pony-Ups gain Low 2-C via being the power used to transform into Daydream and Midnight, but aren't at 2-C.

So basically the hierarchy of Equestria Girls would kind of be lke this (First is Weakest, Last is Strongest):

• Equestria Girls Rainbow Rock Pony Up / Powered Up Dazzlings: At least Low 2-C
• Rainbow Rock Power of Friendship : At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-C (Oneshotting those borderline at 2-C would possibly result in this power being 2-C)
• Daydream Shimmer: 2-C
• Midnight Sparkle / Base Sci-Twi with access to Midnight Sparkle's powers: 2-C
• Gloriossa: 2-C (She is at the same level as Midnight Sparkle roughly)
• Everfree Pony-Up Sci-Twi / Geodes Main Six: 2-C
• Post-Everfree Geodes Sci-Twi: 2-C

This mostly makes sense (I have my own personal problems, like not thinking it's the same pony up as in RR or FG in LoE, but no one else seems to agree with that), but shouldn't the combined Dazzlings be logically about as strong as Daydream and Midnight? And therefore 2-C?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Sparkle I do agree with you actually about the Dazzlings at l4east... The latter... I'm not as certain.

@Light I do agree with you. My original upgrade has absoulutely nothing to do with it being separate timelines involved aside fromt he main ones...I even mentioned it before that I didn't use it as reasoning... So you don't need to go through that honestly.

 

[Antvasima]

So should the 2-C characters be adjusted to Low 2-C?

I woild also appreciate if you ask some administrators and discussion moderators to comment here, to make sure that we are not exaggerating the statistics.

 

[PeaceOnTheRise]

This sounds absurd. Shouldn't Midnight only be 2-C via hax? Just because she has an ability to destroy two universes by potentially tearing their fabric into an endless amount of portals, that doesn't in any way translate to actual AP, durability or any other stat. She still resorts to a beam struggle with Sunset after all. And it doesn't by any means translate to characters capable of hurting her stronger forms being capable of destroying several universes. They should be judged by their own feats, not by assuming everything Midnight and her stronger forms do scale to 2-C.

Midnight has a specific ability that goes into 2-C territory. That's literally the only thing we can claim for certain (maybe also Sunset if she did anything thst cancelled Midnight's 2-C abilities, I don't remember). But everything above that is pure speculation and wank IMO.

If we got a scene where Sci-Twi bumps into Flash and Flash doesn't get disintegrated, would Flash be considered 2-C too?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Ant Not neccessarily. The feat uses the main universes example. He assumed it iincluded the alternate timelines within EQG. Also I already contacted the admin and they gave their approval. I don't have the energy to contact some for this thread right now, so if anyone else wants to feel free...

@Peace Unless explicitly contradicted Peace, we automatically assume feats to be comparable to their magic, as they have to supply the magic to do the feat, and magic is scalable to every aspect of how they use magic unless they explicitly stated an exception within the show for that example . It's akin to how we currently treat Celestia's sun feat. Sunset also outright fixed it as well with her own magic given to her by her friends that had nothing to do with the portal... So are we going to assume hers is hax ?

 

[Udlmaster]

Some ****** shit

DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK.

This here is a IP Tracer, you'll be doxxed if you click it. Hover over it without clicking it, you'll see to goes to "Iplogger".

 

[PeaceOnTheRise]

@Peace Unless explicitly contradicted Peace, we automatically assume feats to be comparable to their magic, as they have to supply the magic to do the feat, and magic is scalable to every aspect of how they use magic unless they explicitly stated an exception within the show for that example . It's akin to how we currently treat Celestia's sun feat. Sunset also outright fixed it as well with her own magic given to her by her friends that had nothing to do with the portal... So are we going to assume hers is hax ?

Possibly? We could assume she got a similar specific ability of portal control. I think this system makes sense when talking about things like Celestia's raising of the sun, because it's more direct and easily quantifiable: either you have enough power for it or you don't. But portal creation is a specific ability that doesn't always translate to a complete 2-C. It could potentially be applied to destroy universes, but we don't know about the actual power output, unlike the sun situation where it's pretty clear and cut. That's why I'm thinking hax is more appropriate here for both Sci-Twi and Sunset, and the rest should retain their original ranking.

Alternatively, if their 2-Cs get settled, Discord would probably have to be scaled to that level, too, via his own portal creation.

 

[Antvasima]

I would also appreciate if you ask some administrators and discussion moderators to comment here, to make sure that we are not exaggerating the statistics.

 

[Lightbuster30]

The portals were created by her own raw power tho.

 

[PeaceOnTheRise]

The portals were created by her own raw power tho.

Were they though? I don't think we have any definitive proof.

 

[Lightbuster30]

You mean aside that they were happened from her own magic beams? Her beams were clearly just that powerful to begin with. You really do't have any proof the portals would have spread to universe level if she wasn't that powerful in the first place. By your own logic, Chancellor Neighsay's amulet should be low 2-C. Let's give everyone in fiction who can make portals low 2-C! Oh, wait, they never actually threatened a universe.

The potency of magical effects is clearly limited to the own casters attack potency. You have dozens of examples of this in MLP, like Twilight failing to undo Sombra's mind control because she wasn weaker than him. Twilight failing an age spell because she didn't have enough power to do it. Burden of proof is on you to prove Midnight Sparkle is the exception to the rule.

 

[PeaceOnTheRise]

You mean aside that they were happened from her own magic beams? Her beams were clearly just that powerful to begin with. You really do't have any proof the portals would have spread to universe level if she wasn't that powerful in the first place. By your own logic, Chancellor Neighsay's amulet should be low 2-C. Let's give everyone in fiction who can make portals low 2-C! Oh, wait, they never actually threatened a universe.
The potency of magical effects is clearly limited to the own casters attack potency. You have dozens of examples of this in MLP, like Twilight failing to undo Sombra's mind control because she wasn weaker than him. Twilight failing an age spell because she didn't have enough power to do it. Burden of proof is on you to prove Midnight Sparkle is the exception to the rule.

1) What I'm arguing is actually the exact opposite: that portal creation alone doesn't warrant a 2-C. In this case it was explicitly stated to be dangerous to the universe, so it could be considered to be on that level, but not necessarily via raw power.

2) That would seem like sound reasoning, but I need more examples. Did Twilight actually ever attempt to do either? I think she never tried to un-brainwash anyone in the S9 opener and she never attempted a real age spell in Magic Duel.

3) Even if we do consider Midnight and Daydream 2-Cs, I doubt later characters like Gloriosa should scale to that. Gloriosa herself has not displayed any feats that would put her on that level. Similarly, Sci-Twi overcoming the consciousness/mental image of Midnight inside her head with the help of the others does not equal actually overpowering her.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Light likely has the first two arguments so I am not going to respond to them right now as I'm tired. But the third, woo boy the third, is not a good argument.


Midnight is clearly not Sci-Twi going crazy. We see bits of Midnight's energy everytime she usesmoee magic than regular Twi can do. She was about to become Midnight herself because she was trying to overpower Gloriossa's magic. Like here:


This is her becoming Midnight... Before we see what's going on in her head. Did you miss this first part or something ?

 

[Lightbuster30]

1. You literally tried scaling Discord to Midnight Sparkle's tier 2 feat based on nothing except portal creation.

2. She did try that. On Apple Bloom iirc. She explicitly states that she failed because her magic wasn't strong enough to stop Sombra. In the comic series, Celestia is resistant to mind control based on being just that strong. It doesn't matter if she never tried an age spell. The fact of the matter is: She explicitly couldn't do it on account of not being powerful enough. A lack of strength explictly was the problem.

3. @The 2nd Existential Seed Gave plenty of reasoning for Gloriosa being > Midnight Sparkle. You can talk to him about it.

4. Speaking of The 2nd Existential Seed I think I'll respond to your post now: @The 2nd Existential Seed So what if the Equestrians saw the tears? That doesn't prove they were being affected. It proves they could see the tears. And they absolutely were not affected by it. Not a single Equestrian was affected beyond seeing the tears happen. The only thing suggesting Midnight Sparkle was threatening both worlds is the fact that she brought it up to begin with. But the first film said only the human world was in danger. I'm not going to trust Twilight's word when she; at the time, was too insane to care about reality collapsing on top of her head.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

It proves it was connecting to their world and affecting their world, not necessarily the Equestrians themselves. If it wasn't the tears would only have been seen from one side, like most tearing of reality feats are... Only visible from one universe, not two universes then after the tears were completed affect the other. But no, the tears were simultaneously IN Equestria and EQG Universe, heavily indicating it was affecting both. So affecting Equestrians have nothing to do with it not affecting both universes.

Manipulating the fabric of two universes would count as 2-C even if doing it little at a time or if done minimally as it was done by one person casually . It wouldn't have affected the Equestrians at first as the feat was reversed and the feat started in the sky of Equestria, meaning it wouldn't have directly affected them until much later afterwards. So yeah ...

Maybe just say she can manipulate two universes but not actually fully affect the Equestrians due to your reasons. It still results in 2-C and satisfies your argument. That would still result in 2-C, but the problem is it wouldn't result in a low end like the rest. It would result in straight up 2-C for even the Powered Up Dazzlings.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Alternatively, if their 2-Cs get settled, Discord would probably have to be scaled to that level, too, via his own portal creation.

But those weren't world ending. I'm pretty sure Midnight's feat is only considered 2-C because it threatened to destroy both universes. It's not the rift itself that makes it 2-C.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Light likely has the first two arguments so I am not going to respond to them right now as I'm tired. But the third, woo boy the third, is not a good argument.

Midnight is clearly not Sci-Twi going crazy. We see bits of Midnight's energy everytime she usesmoee magic than regular Twi can do. She was about to become Midnight herself because she was trying to overpower Gloriossa's magic. Like here:

This is her becoming Midnight... Before we see what's going on in her head. Did you miss this first part or something ?

It seemed like a battle of willpower, not physical strength.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Thats not how 2-C works. 2-C is destroying two universes at the same time. if the My Little Pony Universe would be affected at a later date, then she does not sate the requirement as she is doing it one Universe at a time. The Equestria Girls Universe was in immediate danger of destruction. If it weren't, Sunset Shimmer wouldn't be pointing it out. By the time Equestria is in real danger; if gets to that point, the Equestria Girls Universe will have been long gone by then and thus both verses would have been destroyed individually.

In addition: Affecting the fabric of 2 universes is only 2-C if both are being affected at once and the entirety of the individual Realities are being affected. Since the Equestria Girls Universe was in immediate danger, you can argue all of their Reality was being influenced at once. Since Equestria might be in danger at an unknown later date, then the entirety of their Reality was not being manipulated.

Also: Midnight Sparkle knew she was destroying the Equestria Girls Universe. The problem is: She didn't care. You'd think someone who wants to go to another Universe; whilst performing a 2-C feat simultaneously, would be concerned with the other Universe they were affecting. Seeing as destroying it would be counterintuitive as to what she wants. But, no, she knew and was fully aware of what she was doing to her "home" Universe and simply didn't care. If she knew or thought she was destroying Equestria in the process, then she probably wouldn't be blasting open reality to get there.

Maybe Equestria would be on the line, and Midnight Sparkle did know this, but the fact that she felt she could stay there for a long enough period of time to get a huge understanding of magic before it happened implies it is still not 2-C as it means she wasn't putting Equestria in immediate danger (At least long enough for her to learn a huge amount about magic) and wasn't affecting it all at once and it means she wasn't destroying 2 Universes in one go.

Question: Is Midnight Sparkle an alter ego with her own knowledge? Twilight certainly seemed to treat her as one.

Anyways, since we don't know for sure if all of Equestria was being influenced at once, and we don't know how long it would take if that were the case, I propose everyone, including Midnight Sparkle and above gets: "Low 2-C, likely/possibly 2-C". We can work out which one to use later.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Edited my comment, so you may want to edit yours in turn @The 2nd Existential Seed.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I will accept that. But similar cases have been accepted as 2-C for an almost completely identical to this one... So I'm still not 100% sure. But I will call an impasse to this topic until it's brought up again.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Are we talking about Zamasu? Because in his case, he was going to merge with 2 universes. He'd effectively be them. So, of course he'd be 2-C as the universes still exist. Midnight's threat on the other hand would switfly destroy the Human World and potentially destroy the Pony World later on. And as I've said in my edited comment (now edited twice) she planned on staying in Equestria long enough to learn a great deal about magic, so Equestria would probably be safe for an unknown period of time.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Again we said we'd converse about this when we decide on which to use... So I halfway expected the conversation to end about it there for the time being . But I wasn't referring to Zamasu. It was someone else , but yes they are in Dragon Ball. It was Beerus vs Champa, whixh affecting both universes simultaneously over time was considered 2-C if done together by the staff, but was split in half and made into Low 2C.

I also don't like that logic in the sense it is implying she's holding her powers back rather than letting them rampage across both. Also, again technically Twilight's word carries more weight as just being Midnight planned to do that, doesn't mean she would due to again her insanity. Twilight made that statement after knowingly being far more knowledgable about Equestria than Midnight ever would... So her statement carries far more weight than a wishful delight from Midnight saying her powers would likely take 'X amount of time'.

The burden is on you to prove Midnight had enough mental awareness to retroactively give a claim like that versus Twilight. Remember, her intent means nothing as her mental state clearly didn't hint towards this, especially when she was blinded by power she couldn't control as the scene clearly indicated. She clearly has more knowledge as of her statement being stated. We've had statements from characters indicating writer's intent, and in all honesty that is what that feels like.

The fact Sunset didn't correct her when she made that statement about almost destroying both worlds gives more weight to it since she was the one who made the statement you mentioned before.

 

[Lightbuster30]

It's not the same thing tho. As I've said before, Equestria would likely get destroyed after the Human World. It doesn't matter if it's happening over time. Either both get destroyed at once or it's no higher than Low 2-C.

Soooo....she'd deliberately let her power rampage and destroy the world she's trying to go to? What? And what do you even mean "holds back"? You're the one who suggested Equestria was being affected at a slower rate.

By it's own definition: Destroying the Human World while going to Equestria; the world she's supposedly destroying, automatically implies this degree of mental awareness. It's literally not possible for her not to be aware and simutaneously perofrm these actions at the same time. She "couldn't control it" in the sense that it corrupted her mind. That doesn't make her unaware of her actions, because she blatantly knew what was going on. Why would she not notice if it;s happening to Equestria if she knew it was happening in her own world? Unless you want to argue she was in denial it would happen to Equestria; telling herself she could still get the knowledge, in which case burden of proof goes to you.

Sunset could have had any number of reasons not to corrrect her. Relevance being one of them. Twilight's point isn't about how many universes she destroyed. When she said that, she was trying to confort Juniper by listing her own corruption. Trying to argue for statements based on not being corrected can lead to some really fucky feats. I do not agree with that line of reasoning.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Lightbuster makes sense. Low 2-C seems more appropriate.

What do you think about the scaling? Should Gloriosa really be Low 2-C as well? It seems exaggerated to me.