Plot manip question.

[HakutoRei000]

1. How does plot manipulation actually work in a fight in a VS thread?


2. I’ve heard plot manipulation often runs into NLF issues — how does that usually happen in a VS thread?


3. If plot manipulation is shown to affect an entirely different story (not just in-narrative, but a whole separate fictional work), how is that treated in here?

4. Similar to question 3 — what if the plot manipulation works across completely different stories by the same author, with entirely separate worlds and no connection to the main narrative at all?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

1. How does plot manipulation actually work in a fight in a VS thread?

Depends on how it's used by the character in question.

2. I’ve heard plot manipulation often runs into NLF issues — how does that usually happen in a VS thread?

Sometimes, you've got to take it step by step.

3. If plot manipulation is shown to affect an entirely different story (not just in-narrative, but a whole separate fictional work), how is that treated in here?

Range in the other story is in the verses cosmology; otherwise, it's just a cool feat.

 

[HakutoRei000]

Depends on how it's used by the character in question.

Sometimes, you've got to take it step by step.

Range in the other story is in the verses cosmology; otherwise, it's just a cool feat.

cool feat yeah, how about the 4th question?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Same thing, just a cool crossover feat. During matches, verses are automatically kinda merged together so it wouldn't really change anything.

 

[HakutoRei000]

Same thing, just a cool crossover feat. During matches, verses are automatically kinda merged together so it wouldn't really change anything.

Ah cool, how about outlier tho? like if a character has that shi isnt the battle kinda end there?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Ah cool, how about outlier tho? like if a character has that shi isnt the battle kinda end there?

It depends on how detailed the power and the feats are.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Ah cool, how about outlier tho? like if a character has that shi isnt the battle kinda end there?

Depends on what it does.

An example is if a Character can make things happen to people through Plot Manipulation. They could change the plot and make it so, "And then he suddenly caught fire" or "He took a step, and vanished without a trace".

But as powerful as it seems, as long as you can resist fire or regenerate from being erased, then it's not different from getting hit by Fire Manipulation or Existence Erasure.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

It is also important to understand that there is no default order to metaphysical aspects, so it all relies on what it is shown doing rather than what it is believed to be capable of doing.

For example, per default plot manipulation would not be able to manipulate concepts, but concept erasure can't necessarily be used to erase the plot either. In a vs-debate a clash between such powers may have an indeterminate outcome, unless at least one of the fictions involved clarifies how the interaction between the metaphysical aspects works.

 

[HakutoRei000]

Depends on what it does.

An example is if a Character can make things happen to people through Plot Manipulation. They could change the plot and make it so, "And then he suddenly caught fire" or "He took a step, and vanished without a trace".

But as powerful as it seems, as long as you can resist fire or regenerate from being erased, then it's not different from getting hit by Fire Manipulation or Existence Erasure.

Ah but can they just write their enemy to just be defeated?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Ah but can they just write their enemy to just be defeated?

Only if it's been demonstrated to do so.

it's the same as any other hax out there; it's limited to what it's been demonstrated to do.

Like, a guy who manipulates electricity. He'll only be able to do what he's demonstrated to do with it; he won't be able to fly with electricity or absorb electricity by default.

it's just like any other hax.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Ah but can they just write their enemy to just be defeated?

Depends on what 'defeated' means. Do you mean the character suddenly remembers losing? Are they suddenly dead? Unconcious? The thing about Plot Manipulation is that it's a script for reality, most of the time. Meaning the things that are scripted typically are scenarios, and as I showed above, depending on the character being hit by the plot manipulation, they may just be able to power through it.

Of course, there are some Plot Manipulators who have abilities that say, Oh, your attacks never hit me, or you can't do anything unless I say so. Those can obviously still work, but even then, if the character being affected has passive abilities that can circumvent those, they may still be able to fight. Anyway, what I'm saying is that plot manipulation isn't the end all, be-all.

 

[HakutoRei000]

It is also important to understand that there is no default order to metaphysical aspects, so it all relies on what it is shown doing rather than what it is believed to be capable of doing.

"Does range matter for plot manip? Like, if the user isn’t a High-Dimensional Existence, can they still affect one if their power is stated to cover the whole narrative? Also, if the character’s a smurf but their hax is 1-A, can they still affect a 1-A existence without needing to scale their AP to 1-A?"

 

[HakutoRei000]

Depends on what 'defeated' means. Do you mean the character suddenly remembers losing? Are they suddenly dead? Unconcious? The thing about Plot Manipulation is that it's a script for reality, most of the time. Meaning the things that are scripted typically are scenarios, and as I showed above, depending on the character being hit by the plot manipulation, they may just be able to power through it.

Of course, there are some Plot Manipulators who have abilities that say, Oh, your attacks never hit me, or you can't do anything unless I say so. Those can obviously still work, but even then, if the character being affected has passive abilities that can circumvent those, they may still be able to fight. Anyway, what I'm saying is that plot manipulation isn't the end all, be-all.

What about passive plot manip? Like if it’s always active, and it’s stated to change any outcome that may, will, or could possibly kill the user — and it’s shown to even resist hax up to High 1-A. Does that mean their durability scales up to High 1-A through plot manip, or is it just listed as High 1-A resistance?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

What about passive plot manip? Like if it’s always active, and it’s stated to change any outcome that may, will, or could possibly kill the user — and it’s shown to even resist hax up to High 1-A. Does that mean their durability scales up to High 1-A through plot manip, or is it just listed as High 1-A resistance?

It would still just be listed as Plot Manipulation on their profile, though you can add an exclaimer saying it's passive. As for how it would work in a match, it would just mean whoever is fighting them will have to either have resistance to Plot Manipulation, or will just have to subdue them (Choke them out, pin them down, put them to sleep, knock them out, BFR, etc)

 

[HakutoRei000]

It would still just be listed as Plot Manipulation on their profile, though you can add an exclaimer saying it's passive. As for how it would work in a match, it would just mean whoever is fighting them will have to either have resistance to Plot Manipulation, or will just have to subdue them (Choke them out, pin them down, put them to sleep, knock them out, BFR, etc)

alr thank you

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

"Does range matter for plot manip? Like, if the user isn’t a High-Dimensional Existence, can they still affect one if their power is stated to cover the whole narrative?

Yes range does matter, as I had linked in my previous message plot manipulation follows the same default principle of other metaphysical hax on the wiki. So it can only be given what it is shown doing, a good example is Arthur from Fire Force who has plot manip. However, because the plot he seemingly affects is only 2C he wouldn't in this case, be assumed to be capable of affecting a tier 1 cosmology with his plot manip.

Also, if the character’s a smurf but their hax is 1-A, can they still affect a 1-A existence without needing to scale their AP to 1-A?"

I'm unsure, I believe smurf hax no longer functions the way it once did on the wiki. Characters are no longer accepted to be 3D physically with 1A hax afaik.