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And you're not even giving reasons why you say IZ was ONLY low 2-C. You say he never took over the universes but you don't back up your claim when you say this.
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Possible Zamasu upgrade
- Thread starter Mickey1940
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- #42
Zamasu's face and ki showed up in the DB Super main timeline, which is i think 17 years apartZamasu Chan said:
What happened in Trunks's timeline 17 years ago is vastly different than DB Super
Meaning they are 2 completely unrelated timelines
Which should justify 2C
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I don't have to prove that he didn't takeover the other universes. The burden of proof is on you to show that he did.Zamasu Chan said:
Him wanting to takeover the multiverse just supports the "eventually becoming 2-C" more, not that he was 2-C from the beginning as again, he was only stated to have taken over one universe.
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No one is denying that Zamasu was in the process of absorbing the Main Timeline's Universe 7.Mickey1940 said:
His influence was spreading to other timelines and the universes within said timelines.
But there is no proof that his influence completely took over the other universes in Trunks's timeline and/or the universes in the Main Timeline.
The only thing that we can prove is that Zamasu became one with Universe 7 in the Future Trunks's timeline, and that his influence was spreading to the other universes.
This would be, as I said before, a feat that is slightly unquantifiably higher than baseline Low 2-C, but not 2-C as there is no direct proof of it being 2-C at the point that Zen'o erased Zamasu
I don't know what Whis and Beerus sensing Zamasu has to do with anything. Zamasu was already in the process of absorbing the Main timeline's Universe 7 at that point. The thing is, he never finished absorbing it, so he wouldn't be 2-C.
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I was asked for my input on the topic so here is my stance on IZ.
Technically U7 alone is a 2-C structure so he should be 2-C from becoming one with that alone, the extra timeline thing just takes him further into the tier. But even if we said U7 was a low 2-C structure he could be physically seen in the main timeline, and Beerus and Whis felt the energy all the way at Beerus palace on Whis skin, even stating it was effecting the present at that time, so he had spread and was effecting at least that far already to.
Either way he should technically be 2-C, although some people will ignore his presence in the main timeline effecting all the way to Beerus palace, and ignore the fact U7 has at least 2 Universal sized separate spaces anyway.
Technically U7 alone is a 2-C structure so he should be 2-C from becoming one with that alone, the extra timeline thing just takes him further into the tier. But even if we said U7 was a low 2-C structure he could be physically seen in the main timeline, and Beerus and Whis felt the energy all the way at Beerus palace on Whis skin, even stating it was effecting the present at that time, so he had spread and was effecting at least that far already to.
Either way he should technically be 2-C, although some people will ignore his presence in the main timeline effecting all the way to Beerus palace, and ignore the fact U7 has at least 2 Universal sized separate spaces anyway.
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You explained it better than I didSSJRyu1 said:
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I probably remember that the stuff above was discussed and rejected, i don't think its a good idea to make a new thread about that since it will be chaotic and will likely not get accepted by the other admins. The only way for that going through is by having new current informations that can go with that like if a new possible databook is released that said that Gogeta and Broly were actually destroying universes in the mirror dimension.
My_area
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Infinite Zamasu took over the entire Future Trunks timeline which is Universe 7 only thus Low 2C then he breached and started taking over a small portion of main timeline Universe 7 which is slightly above baseline Low 2C and that was intial Infinite Zamasu that was erased by Zeno and there is no proof that Infinite Zamasu took over other Universes before coming here
The final Infinite Zamasu would have took over 12 Universes and more timelines if Zeno never erased but since Goku and co never encountered that so final Infinite Zamasu isn't counted on promo of ep 127 where Jiren is stated to be stronger than all enemies Goku and co faced so thus no 2C GoD,Angels and Grand Priest
The final Infinite Zamasu would have took over 12 Universes and more timelines if Zeno never erased but since Goku and co never encountered that so final Infinite Zamasu isn't counted on promo of ep 127 where Jiren is stated to be stronger than all enemies Goku and co faced so thus no 2C GoD,Angels and Grand Priest
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In dragon Ball one timeline has 12 universes.My area said:
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Yeah of Broly was stated to be destroying universes within the Mirror Dimension it'd prove that IZ due to being one with U7 would indeed be 2-C.
My_area
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Nah thats due to Author not knowing how timeline works
One Universe has one timeline and all 12 Universes have a seperate timeline because if that was not the case then Zeno erasing timeline would be Low 2C because destroying 12 Universes in one timeline is Low 2C but its not
One Universe has one timeline and all 12 Universes have a seperate timeline because if that was not the case then Zeno erasing timeline would be Low 2C because destroying 12 Universes in one timeline is Low 2C but its not
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No, each timeline has 12-18 space time continuums.
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That's because in Dragon Ball the timelines are huge. Space time continuums are what's in the timeline, that's why all the GoDs are dead in Trunks' future because each timeline has 12-18 space time continuums.
This is something that I found out just recently.
This is something that I found out just recently.
My_area
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Timelines are huge?There is no proof for that as there is no mega timeline having 12 timeline in DBS
Space and time continums means timelines and you are saying that Future Trunks timeline has 12-18 timelines which makes no sense
Trunks future?
No DB depicate timeline as one timeline having 12 to 18 physical Universes and each 12 to 18 timelines means 12 to 18 physical Universes which is wrong as author doesn't know that each Universe when born has a timeline and its a seperate timeline from normal one
Space and time continums means timelines and you are saying that Future Trunks timeline has 12-18 timelines which makes no sense
Trunks future?
No DB depicate timeline as one timeline having 12 to 18 physical Universes and each 12 to 18 timelines means 12 to 18 physical Universes which is wrong as author doesn't know that each Universe when born has a timeline and its a seperate timeline from normal one
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There is proof of it, and it is widely excepted on the wiki.
All 12 Universes exists in the Future Trunks's timeline, which is a timeline separated from the Main Timeline which has its own set of 12 universes.
Timelines in fiction can be bigger than others.
That's just how it works in Dragon Ball.
All 12 Universes exists in the Future Trunks's timeline, which is a timeline separated from the Main Timeline which has its own set of 12 universes.
Timelines in fiction can be bigger than others.
That's just how it works in Dragon Ball.
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How is breaching other universes NOT 2C?My area said:Infinite Zamasu took over the entire Future Trunks timeline which is Universe 7 only thus Low 2C then he breached and started taking over a small portion of main timeline Universe 7 which is slightly above baseline Low 2C and that was intial Infinite Zamasu that was erased by Zeno and there is no proof that Infinite Zamasu took over other Universes before coming here The final Infinite Zamasu would have took over 12 Universes and more timelines if Zeno never erased but since Goku and co never encountered that so final Infinite Zamasu isn't counted on promo of ep 127 where Jiren is stated to be stronger than all enemies Goku and co faced so thus no 2C GoD,Angels and Grand Priest
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Because he doesn't fully consume those universe's Space-Time.
He was going to but was destroyed before he could.
He was going to but was destroyed before he could.
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but the fact that he COULD spread that far should justify breaching the 5th dimensional axis between universesWarren Valion said:
which should justify a 2C rating
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Basically the fact that Other world and living world are stated to be seperate seperated spaces mutliple times, which require teleportation, or death to cross, according to Daizenshuu. And confirmations heaven alone is the size of the universe in guides and the show, and Demon realm being an entierly seperate dimesnion where the laws and physics are not the same as the normal unvierse. Kaioshin realm is also a seperate space not quite universal in size but stated to be like 1/5 Unviersal size. Later Whis and some gods can fly through them, but they also can traverse time and Universes etc. so not suprising they can cross seperate spaces.My area said:
As for the time argument, same deal as the other universes, technically they are part of the 12 universe "timeline", but that functions as a multiverse on the wiki, so it is double standards to accept the seperate Unvierses as their own space times, and not the Other worlds as their own as well, since they are as big or bigger than the living Universe, and also seperate spaces.
So technically U7 alone is a 2-C structure. It may not be agreed by everybody but that is a fact tbf.
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@SSJRyu1
You would probably need Azathoth's, Matthew Schroeder's and Kepekley23's approval before we upgrade Son Goku (Dragon Ball Super) to 2-C.
You would probably need Azathoth's, Matthew Schroeder's and Kepekley23's approval before we upgrade Son Goku (Dragon Ball Super) to 2-C.
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The Twelve Universes are physical constructs separated by measurable distances which can be traversed by regular flight, they blatantly aren't separated Space-Time Continuums contained within a larger structure, seeing as each Timeline has their own set of Universes coupled with their own Zen'o which is capable of destroying all of these Universes.
Parallel "Universes" which exist separated by physical distances within a bigger Cosmos rather than being different Space-Time Bubbles / Manifolds altogether are a thing in Physics. It is called a Quilted Multiverse.
Furthermore, I am also fairly sure that we don't use the Daizenshuu here, as far as I am aware they contradict many things about the setting, and actually state that the Universe and the Afterlifes are Infinite at one point.
Parallel "Universes" which exist separated by physical distances within a bigger Cosmos rather than being different Space-Time Bubbles / Manifolds altogether are a thing in Physics. It is called a Quilted Multiverse.
Furthermore, I am also fairly sure that we don't use the Daizenshuu here, as far as I am aware they contradict many things about the setting, and actually state that the Universe and the Afterlifes are Infinite at one point.
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Yeah, I agree with Ultima Reality and Dark649. They only scale from the initial Infinite Zamasu, before he evolves into 2-C. So everyone's significantly above baseline of Low 2-C, but still not even remotely close to 2-C. The gap between the two tiers is immeasurable.
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That's what I meant is that it's unquantifiable or unknown; it could be 2x, 6x, Googleplex times, or wherever, but can't be assumed through basic multipliers.
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Really think about this for a sec, Infinite Zamasu was born and took over space time in no time at all. He even crossed the unquantifiable distance (5D axis) which makes him borderline 2-C. This means that the initial IZ isn't only low 2-C. He's at least low 2-C.
Now let's look at the POSSIBILITY; Zamasu showed no signs of stopping and since he's part of 5D axis there's no reason to believe it was impossible to breach other universes especially since there much closer. He's already borderline 2-C, he had enough time to fuse with nearer universes and Zeno had to destroy the whole multiverse even though he was only told to destroy Zamasu. Zeno can sense energy, so it's POSSIBLE that he could have sensed Zamasu's influence spreading through the multiverse.
This even supports the Gods fighting argument, which is in fact outdated. "But they were only destroying the matter" is an example of an outdated argument. The GoDs aren't 3-A anymore. And let's look at deeper into this. In BOG when Goku and Beerus were destroying the universe, they were destroying the universe. They were doing it for quite some time and Whis did nothing to stop them. But when Beerus and Champa started they were stopped immediately. Why would both Whis and Vados freak out over another 3-A feat? Mind you if Goku and Beerus did destroy the universe then Whis could just rewind it. In Beerus and Champa's case, the temporal do over won't work because of destroyed space time. These characters are already low 2-C so why are people still using the matter argument?
At least low 2-C possibly 2-C isn't too far fetched at all. You have to think of different outcomes and how people view this. I keep saying possibly 2-C at best and nobody is listening.
Now let's look at the POSSIBILITY; Zamasu showed no signs of stopping and since he's part of 5D axis there's no reason to believe it was impossible to breach other universes especially since there much closer. He's already borderline 2-C, he had enough time to fuse with nearer universes and Zeno had to destroy the whole multiverse even though he was only told to destroy Zamasu. Zeno can sense energy, so it's POSSIBLE that he could have sensed Zamasu's influence spreading through the multiverse.
This even supports the Gods fighting argument, which is in fact outdated. "But they were only destroying the matter" is an example of an outdated argument. The GoDs aren't 3-A anymore. And let's look at deeper into this. In BOG when Goku and Beerus were destroying the universe, they were destroying the universe. They were doing it for quite some time and Whis did nothing to stop them. But when Beerus and Champa started they were stopped immediately. Why would both Whis and Vados freak out over another 3-A feat? Mind you if Goku and Beerus did destroy the universe then Whis could just rewind it. In Beerus and Champa's case, the temporal do over won't work because of destroyed space time. These characters are already low 2-C so why are people still using the matter argument?
At least low 2-C possibly 2-C isn't too far fetched at all. You have to think of different outcomes and how people view this. I keep saying possibly 2-C at best and nobody is listening.
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Why not? If there is sufficient enough aruement then this topic should still be up for debateAntvasima said:
and why are you the one to decide who closes this?
My_area
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@ SSJ Ryu
Seperate space but not time so its not 2C but only much higher than baseline 3A
For it to be 2 C then atleast one of them should have a seperate timeline or seperate space and time continum for it to be a 2C structered Universe but the size you mentioned is correct
If Heaven has a seperate timeline then I will agree for 2C U7 upgrade
@Zamasu chan
Yes but breaching through 5D axis and only conqering a tiny space in different timeline isn't 2C as if Infinite Zamasu would have took over Future Trunks timeline and main timeline before getting erased then 2C Infinite Zamasu would be agreed but he only took over the Future Trunks timeline which is Low 2C and took a small space in main timeline before getting erased which is higher than baseline Low 2C
Now that I have explained then he is only Low 2C and there is no doubt that he would become 2C but only if he wasn't erased by Zeno but since that never happened so all high tiers scales to intial Infinite Zamasu who is Low 2C not the eventual Infinite Zamasu who didn't even appear in DBS so he is out of the point so all scales to intial one
That was because Whis knew that Beerus would nullify it while Beerus was showing no signs againat Champa so they had to stop him and plus both combined could destroy Universe in manga so both are 3B in manga so Beerus cant nullify it since he is 3B and not 3A like he is in anime
Though you have a point of temporal do over but I guess Whis and Vados stopped it instead of wasting their energy to use it to go back in time
GoD are Low 2C but not the supressed one like Beerus in BOG or Sidra giving portion of his power
The thing is 2C is quite possible but I dont see why it will happen when Universe 7 isn't a 2C structure nor is GoD Low 2C while supressed nor is GoD in manga 3A
Another point to make that Beerus and Champa fight was stated by Vados in anime to destroy U6 and U7 which gives Beerus and Champa really high AP in Low 2C range and them combined can do 2C feat means both seperately aren't so Infinite Zamasu isn't either and thats intial one from which everyone scales because if both were baseline 2C then destruction would result in 4 Universe getting destroyed which isn't the case here
Seperate space but not time so its not 2C but only much higher than baseline 3A
For it to be 2 C then atleast one of them should have a seperate timeline or seperate space and time continum for it to be a 2C structered Universe but the size you mentioned is correct
If Heaven has a seperate timeline then I will agree for 2C U7 upgrade
@Zamasu chan
Yes but breaching through 5D axis and only conqering a tiny space in different timeline isn't 2C as if Infinite Zamasu would have took over Future Trunks timeline and main timeline before getting erased then 2C Infinite Zamasu would be agreed but he only took over the Future Trunks timeline which is Low 2C and took a small space in main timeline before getting erased which is higher than baseline Low 2C
Now that I have explained then he is only Low 2C and there is no doubt that he would become 2C but only if he wasn't erased by Zeno but since that never happened so all high tiers scales to intial Infinite Zamasu who is Low 2C not the eventual Infinite Zamasu who didn't even appear in DBS so he is out of the point so all scales to intial one
That was because Whis knew that Beerus would nullify it while Beerus was showing no signs againat Champa so they had to stop him and plus both combined could destroy Universe in manga so both are 3B in manga so Beerus cant nullify it since he is 3B and not 3A like he is in anime
Though you have a point of temporal do over but I guess Whis and Vados stopped it instead of wasting their energy to use it to go back in time
GoD are Low 2C but not the supressed one like Beerus in BOG or Sidra giving portion of his power
The thing is 2C is quite possible but I dont see why it will happen when Universe 7 isn't a 2C structure nor is GoD Low 2C while supressed nor is GoD in manga 3A
Another point to make that Beerus and Champa fight was stated by Vados in anime to destroy U6 and U7 which gives Beerus and Champa really high AP in Low 2C range and them combined can do 2C feat means both seperately aren't so Infinite Zamasu isn't either and thats intial one from which everyone scales because if both were baseline 2C then destruction would result in 4 Universe getting destroyed which isn't the case here
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We have already discussed this several times before, do not have the time to waste talking about everything extensively over and over, and the staff have already rejected this.
As for me, I generally avoid pulling rank, but I am the most active bureaucrat in this wiki, and the person mainly responsible for keeping the wiki organised for the last 4 years.
As for me, I generally avoid pulling rank, but I am the most active bureaucrat in this wiki, and the person mainly responsible for keeping the wiki organised for the last 4 years.
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Beerus and Champa aren't 2-C because there's no indication that the space-time of the universes would be destroyed, only matter.
They are Low 2-C via scaling to Jiren.
They are Low 2-C via scaling to Jiren.
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