[R2M3] Venefica's Tier 7 Tourney: Spagmatron vs Asuna

[VeneficaAuthor]

Original Tourney Thread
Tourney Bracket
Votes

Character	Key	Votes
Spagmatron​	Base	0
Asuna​	Adventurers Tournament Arc	0
Inconclusive		0

The third match of round 2 of the VeneficaAuthor Tier 7-A/High 7-A tourney! It's Spagmatron from FU vs Asuna from Bakuhatsu! Winner faces the winner Haruka vs Cinner in the top 4.

40 meters starting distance with equal speed.

Spagmatron is at High 7-A.
Asuna is at 7-A.

I feel this could be the tourney's best match, so good luck!

 

[Froggytron]

Spagamtron starts with his Information analysis and makes adjustments, as well as his high-EXP boosts (at somewhere above High 7-A baseline) kick in the moment the fight starts. Then Spagamtron (being an analytic curious mind) sends a singular slow Red Laser Circle towards Asuna, which on its way traps a nearby flower (assuming there are any in the abandoned city area) and delivers it captured nearby her as a gift.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Spagamtron starts with his Information analysis and makes adjustments, as well as his high-EXP boosts (at somewhere above High 7-A baseline) kick in the moment the fight starts.

I listed him at High 7-A for this reason

Then Spagamtron (being an analytic curious mind) sends a singular slow Red Laser Circle towards Asuna, which on its way traps a nearby flower (assuming there are any in the abandoned city area) and delivers it captured nearby her as a gift.

I'm not sure what the plot here is, but I don't want to advance anyone via pacifism

 

[Rayfire]

SECOND ROUND LES GOOOOOO

I declare This The theme (Cuz both are heroic characters in some way)

Ok so, starting off, Asuna’s main challenge will be getting through those red circles that spagmatron has. Although, Asuna has multiple means of escaping them before spagmatron can convert her to EXP. These include:

• Riftways (She can use them to teleport out of the red circles and behind spagmatron to do a Omai Wa Mo Shinderu)
• Playback (Allows her to leap through the dimension of time, Or just the 4th dimension if you don’t have much time, and although it’s limited in it’s full capabilities, Asuna can reverse time by 10 seconds, far back enough to when it‘s like Spagmatron never used them, Effectively Pulling a “Time, Huh? Thanks for the tip!”)

Moving onto Sin Vision, Asuna would pretty much have little to no evil in her. She might be a little teasing and cocky at times, but Asuna isn’t someone who starts fights for no reason, She wants to keep her friends safe from the many dangers of the world she lives in, And she also showed Kianna how to “Let loose” so that she wouldn’t be afraid of fighting in the adventurers tournament, and a whole lot more It’s safe to say that Spagmatron wouldn’t at least outright kill Asuna, even though they are designed to capture “Low Sin-Meter entities” (Not sure what counts) considering that she’s a good, and even heroic person overall.

That also means they would never fight to begin with, cause Asuna would probably realize that this random robot she encountered is friendly and not trying to brutally kill her like most monsters she‘s fought, but VS thread rules are a thing hfgfhfg

The precog that Spagmatron gets sounds a lot more like Analytical Prediction based on it’s description, especially considering they’re only predicting the most likely action they will take based solely on how good of a person they are, not what their abilities or history is or anything crazy like that. Asuna is a very unpredictable fighter in her own regard, as she has been shown to change strategies mid-fight quite a few times and quickly unleash surprises on her opponents, since she is super strategical in a fight. If it is straight up pre-cognition and Spagmatron can predict Asuna’s actions anyway somehow, Asuna’s danger sense does the same thing, putting them on equal footing.

Any damage that Spagmatron could do with their various lasers and rockets, Asuna can undo quickly with healing magic, especially considering that Spagmatron is not in one-shot range (Froggy stated in R1M6 somewhere that Spagmatron is “a bit” above baseline High 7-A with the EXP Meter) Though Spagmatron seems to be able to also regenerate what is described as “Shadow liquid body parts” whatever that means.

Asuna can and will also close the AP gap through her reactive evolution, possibly giving HER the AP advantage instead depending on how far into High 7-A Spagmatron is. But even when they are both first starting out, since Spagmatron is described to only be a bit above the baseline High 7-A, he shouldn’t be in oneshot range as already mentioned above ^

Well, that's my initial thoughts for now (Little late but that’s fine)

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Though Spagmatron seems to be able to also regenerate what is described as “Shadow liquid body parts” whatever that means.

Observe Spagmatron's arms and legs on his character portrait

 

[Rayfire]

Observe Spagmatron's arms and legs on his character portrait

Ah, right. I didn’t really pay much attention his portrait cause I had already seen it lol, But that does make it seems pretty limited given that some of his body is clearly robotic, which apparently can’t regenerate, though I prolly need to wait for froggy to comment on this

 

[Froggytron]

I'm not sure what the plot here is, but I don't want to advance anyone via pacifism

I love how Vene instantly knows

 

[Froggytron]

Ok so, starting off, Asuna’s main challenge will be getting through those red circles that spagmatron has. Although, Asuna has multiple means of escaping them before spagmatron can convert her to EXP. These include:

But hey come into it, Rayfire never picks up at individual moves vsbattle style, he just jumps into both strengths and makes x scenarios battle straight away. Kinda saddening.

Spagamtron starts with his Information analysis and makes adjustments, as well as his high-EXP boosts (at somewhere above High 7-A baseline) kick in the moment the fight starts. Then Spagamtron (being an analytic curious mind) sends a singular slow Red Laser Circle towards Asuna, which on its way traps a nearby flower (assuming there are any in the abandoned city area) and delivers it captured nearby her as a gift.

Spagm’s introduction move could still play a big role in this fight, given that gifts are something she could get interested in, knowing her danger sense is on (so Spagm cannot possibly plan something bad if she feels nothing). Thats what is a strong factor at the beginning, because while Spagm doesn't feel any harm/hurt intent, it is a most pacifist unit from FU, catching ‚low Sin-Meter beings‘ (aka people who sinned low, that why ‚low‘) in bubbles so they don't get annihilated by Frogmen and all else just ruining the are around with Red Laser and massacring high sin-meters (evil people/beings). Yet given this is a vsbattle match, the bubbles themselves will still behave offensively.

The very first bubble then has great odds of straight capturing Asuna (which will shock her given the danger sense didn't alert), and it would at a very fast rate convert her into EXP. Yet Asuna herself has EXP, and stealing EXP directly is the way presenting the lowest difficulty, that being said EXP draining will be exponentially faster (if Asuna loses a recently taught attack with EXP lowering, that seems like a deadly factor already). What saves her (obviously) is genius battle IQ and Riftways, yet the EXP stealing would be so fast it already consumes energy to create a second smaller bubble around her Staff, and would use an additional part of EXP being drained to force out of hand and shoot the small bubble containing staff at exponentially raising speeds away, while speed-run deconstructing it for more EXP. The staff getting pulled out and distancing could prove an additional distraction for Asuna trying to catch it, meaning way more EXP will be drained before Asuna uses Riftway to get out. And all remaining EXP drained goes straight to Spagmatron.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

The staff getting pulled out and distancing could prove an additional distraction for Asuna trying to catch it, meaning way more EXP will be drained before Asuna uses Riftway to get out. And all remaining EXP drained goes straight to Spagmatron.

I just wanna jump in to say that Spagmatron isn’t allowed to go into 6-C, so any boosts from EXP will be monitored

 

[Rayfire]

But hey come into it, Rayfire never picks up at individual moves vsbattle style, he just jumps into both strengths and makes x scenarios battle straight away. Kinda saddening.

Ye MB lol

The very first bubble then has great odds of straight capturing Asuna (which will shock her given the danger sense didn't alert), and it would at a very fast rate convert her into EXP. Yet Asuna herself has EXP, and stealing EXP directly is the way presenting the lowest difficulty, that being said EXP draining will be exponentially faster (if Asuna loses a recently taught attack with EXP lowering, that seems like a deadly factor already). What saves her (obviously) is genius battle IQ and Riftways, yet the EXP stealing would be so fast it already consumes energy to create a second smaller bubble around her Staff, and would use an additional part of EXP being drained to force out of hand and shoot the small bubble containing staff at exponentially raising speeds away, while speed-run deconstructing it for more EXP. The staff getting pulled out and distancing could prove an additional distraction for Asuna trying to catch it, meaning way more EXP will be drained before Asuna uses Riftway to get out. And all remaining EXP drained goes straight to Spagmatron.

Actually, Asuna doesn’t really even need her staff to use magic at all. She and other adventurers can use them out of her hands if she wants to, the staffs are just a cool factor, but mostly a way to aim attacks slightly better. But if she wants it back, there’s no reason to believe Asuna won’t use Playback (Time Magic skill) to turn back time by 10 seconds, therefore bypassing the whole additional shields thing, and then being able to know what Spagmatron was going to do, whilst Spagmatron would have no idea Asuna had just travelled back in time. This version of Frogmen doesn’t have Time manipulation themselves, so Asuna should be able to take advantage of this, By taking advantage of what Spagmatron thought she would do, and strike first instead.

 

[Rayfire]

I just wanna jump in to say that Spagmatron isn’t allowed to go into 6-C, so any boosts from EXP will be monitored

Also this ^

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Ye MB lol

Actually, Asuna doesn’t really even need her staff to use magic at all. She and other adventurers can use them out of her hands if she wants to, the staffs are just a cool factor, but mostly a way to aim attacks slightly better. But if she wants it back, there’s no reason to believe Asuna won’t use Playback (Time Magic skill) to turn back time by 10 seconds, therefore bypassing the whole additional shields thing, and then being able to know what Spagmatron was going to do, whilst Spagmatron would have no idea Asuna had just travelled back in time. This version of Frogmen doesn’t have Time manipulation themselves, so Asuna should be able to take advantage of this.

Spagmatron isn’t a Frogman, he’s the third form of a lower line of evolutions with 80% Frogman soul, but yeah the time thing accurate

 

[Froggytron]

I declare This The theme (Cuz both are heroic characters in some way)

Nice OST

• Playback (Allows her to leap through the dimension of time, Or just the 4th dimension if you don’t have much time, and although it’s limited in it’s full capabilities, Asuna can reverse time by 10 seconds, far back enough to when it‘s like Spagmatron never used them, Effectively Pulling a “Time, Huh? Thanks for the tip!”)

Playback could help, but not really sure if it would get her EXP and staff (given that staff could get stolen) back, as that requires a time skill advanced enough like 2-second-rewind (used by Spagm’s superiors), and these time spells were banned by tourney rules. Using playback right away is also not a good move, as she won't use the full 10 seconds then (not sure if I understand the power correctly .__.). It also seems like a power having a cooldown or sidebacks, spamming it could be dangerous, even if she can spam riftways.

That also means they would never fight to begin with, cause Asuna would probably realize that this random robot she encountered is friendly and not trying to brutally kill her like most monsters she‘s fought, but VS thread rules are a thing hfgfhfg

Yeah, they would never fight normally, at least if Asuna didn't attempt to save high sin meters from being massacred by FU units.

The precog that Spagmatron gets sounds a lot more like Analytical Prediction based on it’s description, especially considering they’re only predicting the most likely action they will take based solely on how good of a person they are, not what their abilities or history is or anything crazy like that. Asuna is a very unpredictable fighter in her own regard, as she has been shown to change strategies mid-fight quite a few times and quickly unleash surprises on her opponents, since she is super strategical in a fight. If it is straight up pre-cognition and Spagmatron can predict Asuna’s actions anyway somehow, Asuna’s danger sense does the same thing, putting them on equal footing.

Spagm, unfortunately, doesn't have precog like Frogmen, but Sin-Meter predicting combined with Inform-analysis and the genial observing and analyzing mind of Spagmatron could come very close to being equal with danger sense.

Any damage that Spagmatron could do with their various lasers and rockets, Asuna can undo quickly with healing magic, especially considering that Spagmatron is not in one-shot range (Froggy stated in R1M6 somewhere that Spagmatron is “a bit” above baseline High 7-A with the EXP Meter) Though Spagmatron seems to be able to also regenerate what is described as “Shadow liquid body parts” whatever that means.

There is a ton to say about this, but I don't want to spam straight in 2nd message

Asuna can and will also close the AP gap through her reactive evolution, possibly giving HER the AP advantage instead depending on how far into High 7-A Spagmatron is. But even when they are both first starting out, since Spagmatron is described to only be a bit above the baseline High 7-A, he shouldn’t be in oneshot range as already mentioned above ^

The first Laser Bubble had great potential to make the AP gap even higher (nerfing Asuna if her power is EXP amount based and boosting Spagm’s EXP-meter, which is menacingly high for a 3rd level to begin with). There is also more to say, but I don't want to create chaos right away, I then hate to reply to gigantic texts I caused to happen

Well, that's my initial thoughts for now (Little late but that’s fine)

Ah, right. I didn’t really pay much attention his portrait cause I had already seen it lol, But that does make it seems pretty limited given that some of his body is clearly robotic, which apparently can’t regenerate, though I prolly need to wait for froggy to comment on this

More things to say about this as well. But hey, just from one look at a single FU Android profile, you can hardly get their full picture. Yet you already made a good picture from the chaos the profile has xD What a good analytic skills

 

[Froggytron]

Spagmatron isn’t a Frogman, he’s the third form of a lower line of evolutions with 80% Frogman soul, but yeah the time thing accurate

So beautifully said

Anyway, pardon me, Im kinda busy right now. I will still try to reply in a few hours

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Playback could help, but not really sure if it would get her EXP and staff (given that staff could get stolen) back, as that requires a time skill advanced enough like 2-second-rewind (used by Spagm’s superiors), and these time spells were banned by tourney rules. Using playback right away is also not a good move, as she won't use the full 10 seconds then (not sure if I understand the power correctly .__.). It also seems like a power having a cooldown or sidebacks, spamming it could be dangerous, even if she can spam riftways.

Asuna’s is allowed because she can’t force her opponent into instant killing position with zero escape options like Frogman does (poor Akumo was only saved from being stomped by clairvoyance)

Plus Asuna’s magic seems to be strong, and spagmatron doesn’t have a listed time resistance, so not sure why playback wouldn’t work especially since they seem to actually do the exact same stuff almost except Asuna is at 10 seconds. Not sure if this match is going to become a debate on how layered each system is, I really hope not since I just wanted to see these two battle rather than have a ‘who is more ridiculously OP’ debate

 

[Rayfire]

The staff getting pulled out and distancing could prove an additional distraction for Asuna trying to catch it

Already explained above that Asuna doesn’t really need it (She’s not like tanjiro who is completely out of options without a sword) ^

And also, Asuna‘s staff isn’t really a part of her body, meaning that when Asuna reverses time, it’d return to where it was 10 seconds earlier, AKA, in her hands, meaning she’ll get it back pretty easily

Venefica also does a good job explaining why asuna’s time magic is allowed ^ Asuna also can’t attack whilst she’s in the dimension of time (4th dimension in this case), she can just use it to fix a mistake or take an opponent off-guard mostly. It isn’t an auto “Minor spelling mistake, I win” card

But yeah, Asuna should be able to escape quickly even if spagmatron takes her by surprise, so spag won't gain very much EXP from that, and asuna would then have knowledge of the red circles and how to avoid them. I think that's all she really needs to worry about, since those are the only things that can reach asuna from any distance.

 

[Rayfire]

Now that i think about it, Wouldn't Spagmatrons intention to capture/trap asuna set off her danger sense? She can see bad intentions coming from a mile away, even if they are well hidden, For Example...

(Vol 1 Chapter 6, Asuna encounters Haruka)

That should put more into perspective about how asuna's danger sense works (Should put this on her profile as well prolly) So, with that in mind, I think if spagmatron tried to make himself seem friendly at first, asuna would see through it, unless froggy has a reason to say otherwise (e.g they don't technically have any intentions cause their robots or something, idk)

Spagmatrons Analytical prediction would do the same thing for a while though, at least until asuna comes up with a strategy and suddenly changes tactics before spag can adapt. But this should mean that asuna wouldn't fall for any trickery, unless, again, froggy has arguments against this

 

[Froggytron]

Asuna won’t use Playback (Time Magic skill) to turn back time by 10 seconds, therefore bypassing the whole additional shields thing, and then being able to know what Spagmatron was going to do, whilst Spagmatron would have no idea Asuna had just travelled back in time. This version of Frogmen doesn’t have Time manipulation themselves, so Asuna should be able to take advantage of this, By taking advantage of what Spagmatron thought she would do, and strike first instead.

So she can mentally time travel with this, kinda like Okabe Rintaro from Stains Gate, really a cool for an ability! While Spagm doesn't have time resistance or manipulation, he knows about it (as the Information Analysis can show him the strongest attack of the opponent, without doubt, that Playback), together with his mind process and analysis, I could see Spagm behaving similarly to Sans, which knew how many times player died based on seeing their face expression, despite unable to see how they time traveled/rewind time.

Also this ^

Yet abilities gained aren't. But what would happen if both hypothetically achieved the top of High 7-A with their EXP systems, would they then be stuck at the 99% High 7-A mile infinitely?

Asuna’s is allowed because she can’t force her opponent into instant killing position with zero escape options like Frogman does (poor Akumo was only saved from being stomped by clairvoyance)

Poor Akumo, without clairvoyance he couldn't stomp Frogman with endlessly evolving stats and abilities just before Frogman's sight

Plus Asuna’s magic seems to be strong, and spagmatron doesn’t have a listed time resistance, so not sure why playback wouldn’t work especially since they seem to actually do the exact same stuff almost except Asuna is at 10 seconds. Not sure if this match is going to become a debate on how layered each system is, I really hope not since I just wanted to see these two battle rather than have a ‘who is more ridiculously OP’ debate

Don't worry, I namely didn't understand, now I understand from about 40%

Already explained above that Asuna doesn’t really need it (She’s not like tanjiro who is completely out of options without a sword) ^

I knew that from the profile, but Spagm didn't, or more precisely the laser bubble itself. Traditionally temporarily removing the top weapon of a hero will cause them to spread less distraction on the battlefield, the bubble would attempt that there as well.

And also, Asuna‘s staff isn’t really a part of her body, meaning that when Asuna reverses time, it’d return to where it was 10 seconds earlier, AKA, in her hands, meaning she’ll get it back pretty easily

Also imagined, yet Spagm will have to assume.

Venefica also does a good job explaining why asuna’s time magic is allowed ^ Asuna also can’t attack whilst she’s in the dimension of time (4th dimension in this case), she can just use it to fix a mistake or take an opponent off-guard mostly. It isn’t an auto “Minor spelling mistake, I win” card

How often she can 'time leap' (I watched both seasons of Steins Gate + the film) in a battle? Are there any cooldowns or drawbacks by using it repeatedly?

But yeah, Asuna should be able to escape quickly even if spagmatron takes her by surprise, so spag won't gain very much EXP from that, and asuna would then have knowledge of the red circles and how to avoid them. I think that's all she really needs to worry about, since those are the only things that can reach asuna from any distance.

I wouldn't say they are the only method. But Spagm seeing the time leaped Asuna knows the flower bubble is a trap will further tell him she saw it before (with the info he has about her strongest attack making it clear to him how), so he can behave differently, surprising Asuna each time she time leaps in time. How would Asuna react if Spagm started spamming the area with Laser Circles with Danmaku Star?

Now that i think about it, Wouldn't Spagmatrons intention to capture/trap asuna set off her danger sense? She can see bad intentions coming from a mile away, even if they are well hidden, For Example...

That should put more into perspective about how asuna's danger sense works (Should put this on her profile as well prolly) So, with that in mind, I think if spagmatron tried to make himself seem friendly at first, asuna would see through it, unless froggy has a reason to say otherwise (e.g they don't technically have any intentions cause their robots or something, idk)

Im confident danger sense wouldn't see most of the Red Laser attacks, because at level 3 they already start to operate on their own, namely the Laser Bubbles. Spagm trying to catch tens of thousands of innocent beings (which try to run unknowing they will just protect them) would go insane, that's why the bubbles themselves catch and decide. Spagm remotely detonating Laser Circles into explosions could, on the other hand, be slightly sensed, even if it contains very low harmful intention. FU units knowing about reincarnation take annihilating one physically just as punching them, as their soul will take a new body once again. That's why FU likes so much to capture evil souls themselves, ruining their "true" reincarnating life completely. Punching someone still counts as certain harm, but this morality difference could keep catching Asuna off guard.

Spagmatrons Analytical prediction would do the same thing for a while though, at least until asuna comes up with a strategy and suddenly changes tactics before spag can adapt. But this should mean that asuna wouldn't fall for any trickery, unless, again, froggy has arguments against this

I would namely say Spagm is put into the 'Sans position', yet while Sans cannot change attacks or land undodgeable attacks (meaning with enough willpower and training you can nearly certainly beat Sans bossfight, given enough attempts), Spagm's arsenal has countless means to block dodging paths completely, and each time will soon detect which combos Asuna seen and results in changing strategies infinitely as well. Also worth noting when Asuna dies, she loses definitely, (hopefully) no means of determination will bring her back to life (she would wait for Stage 3 to be called and revive her after the tourney ends).

Now that the starting positions seem to be made clear, with which would Asuna attack? How would she behave when time leaped back? So far there has been low content from Asuna's offense to be seen argued with

 

[Froggytron]

Hope I didn't forget anything. But as it now appears both concepts of 'time leaping' with mind into your past self and Sans's position references take place, this debate fight happens to be one of the most original I ever argued in Hope Vene enjoyed the sight while eating popcorn as well

 

[Rayfire]

Dang thats long, might take a while to reply since im busy, mb

 

[Froggytron]

Dang thats long, might take a while to reply since im busy, mb

And there still was a little offense seen from either side

I take replying after several days to be a "while", so don't worry about not replying in hours, that's just a small window. I myself reply within hours rarely xD

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Yet abilities gained aren't. But what would happen if both hypothetically achieved the top of High 7-A with their EXP systems, would they then be stuck at the 99% High 7-A mile infinitely?

Yes

 

[Rayfire]

So she can mentally time travel with this, kinda like Okabe Rintaro from Stains Gate, really a cool for an ability! While Spagm doesn't have time resistance or manipulation, he knows about it (as the Information Analysis can show him the strongest attack of the opponent, without doubt, that Playback), together with his mind process and analysis, I could see Spagm behaving similarly to Sans, which knew how many times player died based on seeing their face expression, despite unable to see how they time traveled/rewind time.

Ah, i see. Even so, it's undeniable that asuna can still escape from the red circles that way, so it'll still be useful

Yet abilities gained aren't. But what would happen if both hypothetically achieved the top of High 7-A with their EXP systems, would they then be stuck at the 99% High 7-A mile infinitely?

Last part already answered by venefica. Funnily Enough, If you mean spagmatron can gain new abilities, Asuna has been shown to gain new skills and magic types mid-fight as well, though they are not complex like time or luck magic, which asuna needed some time to even begin to get the hang of.

How often she can 'time leap' (I watched both seasons of Steins Gate + the film) in a battle? Are there any cooldowns or drawbacks by using it repeatedly?

Well, she can't just spam it to go days backwards in time, otherwise she would canonically be able to get days of prep time for free, so the cooldown would be 10 seconds, the same amount of time asuna can travel backwards in, but not really any drawbacks other than that cooldown

I wouldn't say they are the only method. But Spagm seeing the time leaped Asuna knows the flower bubble is a trap will further tell him she saw it before (with the info he has about her strongest attack making it clear to him how), so he can behave differently, surprising Asuna each time she time leaps in time. How would Asuna react if Spagm started spamming the area with Laser Circles with Danmaku Star?

Asuna has dealt with Danmaku before (Vol 1 Chapter 3 Fight) So this wouldn't be anything new to her. Even if she saw no way of dodging or getting through those attacks, She can use thunder magic skills like turbocharge to amp her speed, and maybe her (only) luck skill, fortune, to help her out too. She could also use a riftway to just teleport through the chaos

Also, Asuna is no slouch when it comes to adapting to new situations, like how spagmatron would once he see's asuna has presumably travelled back in time. Like how she immediately adapted to suddenly having to face a monster (Kedron, Chapter 3 again) that was way stronger than her, and was using abilities she had never encountered before (Earth magic, Danmaku, Abstract Existence, etc) And taking into account her battle IQ, this will probably put them on equal footing in terms of adaptability too.

Im confident danger sense wouldn't see most of the Red Laser attacks, because at level 3 they already start to operate on their own, namely the Laser Bubbles. Spagm trying to catch tens of thousands of innocent beings (which try to run unknowing they will just protect them) would go insane, that's why the bubbles themselves catch and decide. Spagm remotely detonating Laser Circles into explosions could, on the other hand, be slightly sensed, even if it contains very low harmful intention. FU units knowing about reincarnation take annihilating one physically just as punching them, as their soul will take a new body once again. That's why FU likes so much to capture evil souls themselves, ruining their "true" reincarnating life completely. Punching someone still counts as certain harm, but this morality difference could keep catching Asuna off guard.I

I see. Even so, Asuna has plenty of options to get through that (Speed amps and fortune for example as explained ^) so asuna should be able to get through tens of thousands of them, especially considering her acrobatics, or if she's lazy, just teleport through em

I would namely say Spagm is put into the 'Sans position', yet while Sans cannot change attacks or land undodgeable attacks (meaning with enough willpower and training you can nearly certainly beat Sans bossfight, given enough attempts), Spagm's arsenal has countless means to block dodging paths completely, and each time will soon detect which combos Asuna seen and results in changing strategies infinitely as well.

Asuna will also adapt as explained above ^ which puts them on equal footing (Again lol) So it kind of makes the adaptation abilities irrelevant for both of them here, it'll just be a "no u vs no u" situation, lol

Also worth noting when Asuna dies, she loses definitely, (hopefully) no means of determination will bring her back to life (she would wait for Stage 3 to be called and revive her after the tourney ends).

Yeah, that is true Although asuna will probably pull of some crazy stuff relating to resurrection in the future

My question is, how would spagmatron deal with Asuna's speed amps short-term, and literal luck manipulation? and also, is his whole body able to regenerate, or just the black liquidy stuff?

 

[Javenplayz253]

Ah, i see. Even so, it's undeniable that asuna can still escape from the red circles that way, so it'll still be useful

Last part already answered by venefica. Funnily Enough, If you mean spagmatron can gain new abilities, Asuna has been shown to gain new skills and magic types mid-fight as well, though they are not complex like time or luck magic, which asuna needed some time to even begin to get the hang of.

Well, she can't just spam it to go days backwards in time, otherwise she would canonically be able to get days of prep time for free, so the cooldown would be 10 seconds, the same amount of time asuna can travel backwards in, but not really any drawbacks other than that cooldown

Asuna has dealt with Danmaku before (Vol 1 Chapter 3 Fight) So this wouldn't be anything new to her. Even if she saw no way of dodging or getting through those attacks, She can use thunder magic skills like turbocharge to amp her speed, and maybe her (only) luck skill, fortune, to help her out too. She could also use a riftway to just teleport through the chaos

Also, Asuna is no slouch when it comes to adapting to new situations, like how spagmatron would once he see's asuna has presumably travelled back in time. Like how she immediately adapted to suddenly having to face a monster (Kedron, Chapter 3 again) that was way stronger than her, and was using abilities she had never encountered before (Earth magic, Danmaku, Abstract Existence, etc) And taking into account her battle IQ, this will probably put them on equal footing in terms of adaptability too.

I see. Even so, Asuna has plenty of options to get through that (Speed amps and fortune for example as explained ^) so asuna should be able to get through tens of thousands of them, especially considering her acrobatics, or if she's lazy, just teleport through em

Asuna will also adapt as explained above ^ which puts them on equal footing (Again lol) So it kind of makes the adaptation abilities irrelevant for both of them here, it'll just be a "no u vs no u" situation, lol

Yeah, that is true Although asuna will probably pull of some crazy stuff relating to resurrection in the future

My question is, how would spagmatron deal with Asuna's speed amps short-term, and literal luck manipulation? and also, is his whole body able to regenerate, or just the black liquidy stuff?

Why can't they get along ;-;

 

[Rayfire]

Why can't they get along ;-;

Cause Matchup rules

I can totally see asuna fist-bumping spagmatron if they weren't magically wanting to fight each other tho

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Bump

 

[Froggytron]

Ah, I see. Even so, it's undeniable that Asuna can still escape from the red circles that way, so it'll still be useful

At least the first one, she now knows they are floating traps.

The last part was already answered by Venefica. Funnily enough, If you mean Spagmatron can gain new abilities, Asuna has been shown to gain new skills and magic types mid-fight as well, though they are not complex like time or luck magic, which Asuna needed some time to even begin to get the hang of.

Interesting how they both have ways to match themselves even in the endgame

Well, she can't just spam it to go days backward in time, otherwise, she would canonically be able to get days of prep time for free, so the cooldown would be 10 seconds, the same amount of time Asuna can travel backward in, but not really any drawbacks other than that cooldown

Asuna has dealt with Danmaku before (Vol 1 Chapter 3 Fight) So this wouldn't be anything new to her. Even if she saw no way of dodging or getting through those attacks, She could use thunder magic skills like turbocharge to amp her speed, and maybe her (only) luck skill, fortune, to help her out too. She could also use a rift way to just teleport through the chaos

Her moveability with 10x speed and portals could help to evade through, even if Spagm goes for Charged State (by consuming energy from the ground for a 4x power boost and 4x boost of attacks) allowing to add numerous Laser Points to the Laser Circles danmaku.

• Charged State (laser-pointing) - Upon gathering lots of energy in a short amount of time (like with Absorption), Spagmatron gets into his 'charged state', where all his bodily Red Laser Crystals start glowing menacingly. This state grants him the power to create laser points on the battlefield (in an open area), tiny red glowing dots, which with a small delay connect themselves with a Red Laser line possessing all Red Laser attributes, cutting holes into anything between them. Spagmatron possesses the potential to summon dozens of them (many laser-points merged in a single line) at High 7-A level, or up to thousands in their 7-A form. Gathering additional energy is necessary to keep the charged state ongoing, as laser-points in bigger counts are energy-demanding.

Laser-points still are dodgeable even without prediction with good reflexes, as the dots must appear before they connect. The is still another danger presenting itself in dodging the crazy danmaku and getting to Spam...

Also, Asuna is no slouch when it comes to adapting to new situations, like how Spagmatron would once see Asuna has presumably traveled back in time. Like how she immediately adapted to suddenly having to face a monster (Kedron, Chapter 3 again) that was way stronger than her, and was using abilities she had never encountered before (Earth magic, Danmaku, Abstract Existence, etc) And taking into account her battle IQ, this will probably put them on equal footing in terms of adaptability too.

I see. Even so, Asuna has plenty of options to get through that (Speed amps and fortune for example as explained ^) so Asuna should be able to get through tens of thousands of them, especially considering her acrobatics, or if she's lazy, just teleport through em

The skill of adapting from already dodging them previously would help, although it would be tight will all Spagm can throw at her. Dodging through all of this still presents a danger, as all Red Laser attacks emit limited Temperature Manipulation & Radiation Manipulation & Sound Manipulation. At least in the short term noise and heat (vaporizing body layers of even stat stronger opponents fighting) won't do anything notable with Asuna's resistance, but the radiation emitted from all sides could be different, it kills silently, furthermore when Asuna is distracted in this hard dodging and trying to figure out how to take down Spagm.

Asuna will also adapt as explained above ^ which puts them on equal footing (Again lol) So it kind of makes the adaptation abilities irrelevant for both of them here, it'll just be a "no u vs no u" situation, lol

Agreement here

Yeah, that is true Although Asuna will probably pull of some crazy stuff relating to resurrection in the future

As well the higher FU Android levels

My question is, how would Spagmatron deal with Asuna's speed amps' short-term, and literal luck manipulation? and also, is his whole body able to regenerate, or just the black liquidy stuff?

If Asuna uses playback and then uses 10x speed to keep dodging danmaku and eventually gets to Spagm (who is a mid-range fighter, he wont like her to be close), she still has to surpass all defenses Spagm builds around himself, as he is insecure seeing all the possible ways Playback could be used. The first Digi-shield could be bypassed with the luck manip, but Asuna wont expect a secondary beneath it. And she won't expect Laser Circles stored between these shields, set to automatically detonate outwards the moment the first Digi-shield is broken. Spagm doesn't intend to hurt, he wants to protect himself against all the time stuff uses, as well the Digi-Shields can completely hide anything hidden underneath them, the circles and under shield in this case, aka the adjustments Spagm makes the moment he sees the inform analysis, with which he starts. Even if the explosions won't KO Asuna being close somehow, the high dose of radiation combined with previous exposure could KO Asuna even if she uses riftway to get far away, the normal HP heal shouldn't alone assist a cure to such a complicated damage.

 

[Froggytron]

Why can't they get along ;-;

Cause Matchup rule
I can totally see asuna fist-bumping spagmatron if they weren't magically wanting to fight each other tho

Precisely. Normally prior to seeing low Sin-Meter Asuna, Spagm would attempt to solve any conflicts by stomping Asuna with checkers, which would result in Spagm getting unavoidable first punches eventually (by anime logic)

 

[Rayfire]

Her moveability with 10x speed and portals could help to evade through, even if Spagm goes for Charged State (by consuming energy from the ground for a 4x power boost and 4x boost of attacks) allowing to add numerous Laser Points to the Laser Circles danmaku.

• Charged State (laser-pointing) - Upon gathering lots of energy in a short amount of time (like with Absorption), Spagmatron gets into his 'charged state', where all his bodily Red Laser Crystals start glowing menacingly. This state grants him the power to create laser points on the battlefield (in an open area), tiny red glowing dots, which with a small delay connect themselves with a Red Laser line possessing all Red Laser attributes, cutting holes into anything between them. Spagmatron possesses the potential to summon dozens of them (many laser-points merged in a single line) at High 7-A level, or up to thousands in their 7-A form. Gathering additional energy is necessary to keep the charged state ongoing, as laser-points in bigger counts are energy-demanding.

The skill of adapting from already dodging them previously would help, although it would be tight will all Spagm can throw at her. Dodging through all of this still presents a danger, as all Red Laser attacks emit limited Temperature Manipulation & Radiation Manipulation & Sound Manipulation. At least in the short term noise and heat (vaporizing body layers of even stat stronger opponents fighting) won't do anything notable with Asuna's resistance, but the radiation emitted from all sides could be different, it kills silently, furthermore when Asuna is distracted in this hard dodging and trying to figure out how to take down Spagm.

I suppose that’d be another danger for Asuna to watch out for, but that would be something Asuna’s danger sense would detect for her. And I think you are seriously underestimating asuna’s acrobatics. Basically, she can weave between thousands of pieces of debris from a danmaku attack no problem (Vol 1 Chapter 3) which I think is enough to explain that i don’t think it will be as tight as you say it is.

Funnily enough, I was planning for Asuna to survive in space next chapter, which would give her resistance to radiation, Though since that‘s not in this key yet, that’s not really applicable, so I’ll just say this:

“Radiation sickness happens when high-energy radiation damages or destroys certain cells in the body. Areas of the body most at risk of being affected by high-energy radiation are the bone marrow cells and the lining of the intestinal tract.”

Basically, Once Asuna realizes that Spagmatron is using some sort of radiation, as I’ve explained earlier, she can always heal any damage that she takes (Healing Magic regenerates limbs and organs, which are, y’know, cells!) Which would undo any progress that the radiation could have made.

As for the sound, Asuna has resistances to that on her profile, and temperature manipulation Asuna technically has some sort of resistance to that, through partial element resistance, meaning resistance to heat & cold. Even if the temperature alone could harm Asuna, it wouldn’t be very much, since people like Haruka can survive Being surrounded in fire by Shizu, (Vol 1 Chapter 7) and she’s pretty comparable to Asuna.

If Asuna uses playback and then uses 10x speed to keep dodging danmaku and eventually gets to Spagm (who is a mid-range fighter, he wont like her to be close), she still has to surpass all defenses Spagm builds around himself, as he is insecure seeing all the possible ways Playback could be used. The first Digi-shield could be bypassed with the luck manip, but Asuna wont expect a secondary beneath it. And she won't expect Laser Circles stored between these shields, set to automatically detonate outwards the moment the first Digi-shield is broken. Spagm doesn't intend to hurt, he wants to protect himself against all the time stuff uses, as well the Digi-Shields can completely hide anything hidden underneath them, the circles and under shield in this case, aka the adjustments Spagm makes the moment he sees the inform analysis, with which he starts. Even if the explosions won't KO Asuna being close somehow, the high dose of radiation combined with previous exposure could KO Asuna even if she uses riftway to get far away, the normal HP heal shouldn't alone assist a cure to such a complicated damage.

You’re assuming that Asuna even tries to get close in the first place, but even though she can dodge a lot of stuff Spagmatron can throw at her pretty easily, she won’t take any risks unless she finds an opening. She can snipe him from afar with superhuman precision, and the only thing she has to worry about are the red circles with their planetary ranges.

Radiation thingy explained above ^

If Asuna did decide to get close and personal, there’s no reason to believe Asuna wouldn’t get KO’d by that. Your forgetting about Asuna’s raw endurance here In Chapter 3 (I’m bringing up this one a lot here lol) Asuna took a hit for Shizu after she saw that she was about to get impaled through the chest, which went through Asuna’s own before she knew what healing magic was. And what happened when pretty much all of her organs were destroyed? She kept frickin goin, she lost a lot of blood, and she stated that it hurt like never before at first, but a bit later, Asuna forgot that happened at all during the fight. That’s how crazy her endurance and willpower is. If Asuna can survive that and not die, or, y’know, pass out, I don’t think an explosion going off in Asuna’s face will do the trick, even if she doesn’t expect it.

 

[Froggytron]

I suppose that’d be another danger for Asuna to watch out for, but that would be something Asuna’s danger sense would detect for her. And I think you are seriously underestimating asuna’s acrobatics. Basically, she can weave between thousands of pieces of debris from a danmaku attack no problem (Vol 1 Chapter 3) which I think is enough to explain that i don’t think it will be as tight as you say it is.

The point is circle spam at higher focus (Spagmatron making the turrets to shoot from kilometers away as well) combined with Laser Point spam is getting into tens of thousands, while the circles don't disappear, rather they get more and more powerful and accelerate in speed at an exponential rate. Eventually, they would start to greatly surpass Asuna even at her Supercharge, as Spagm would want them rotating unpredictably around like crazy. Then however if Asuna can time-leap 10 seconds in each 10 seconds, she (at least her mind returning) would evade the point where the circles get as fast.

The danmaku is also dangerous because circles don't alert danger sense, and they don't need to hit, they simply manifest the bubble around the opponent once they get close, and several capturings could weaken Asuna enough to worse in dodging fatally, where many hits could surpass her healing and annihilate her till no piece is left. So dodging will always be hard even for a Touhou player like Asuna, given that 'Playback knowledged' Spam will always change the patterns.

“Radiation sickness happens when high-energy radiation damages or destroys certain cells in the body. Areas of the body most at risk of being affected by high-energy radiation are the bone marrow cells and the lining of the intestinal tract.”

Basically, Once Asuna realizes that Spagmatron is using some sort of radiation, as I’ve explained earlier, she can always heal any damage that she takes (Healing Magic regenerates limbs and organs, which are, y’know, cells!) Which would undo any progress that the radiation could have made.

Can her healing work at a cellular precision? Even if it can, having to heal nonstop (or at least for a brief whiles) will still raise the difficulty of dodging and fighting Spagamtron.

As for the sound, Asuna has resistances to that on her profile, and temperature manipulation Asuna technically has some sort of resistance to that, through partial element resistance, meaning resistance to heat & cold. Even if the temperature alone could harm Asuna, it wouldn’t be very much, since people like Haruka can survive Being surrounded in fire by Shizu, (Vol 1 Chapter 7) and she’s pretty comparable to Asuna.

Red laser burns layers of opponents, it's like a radiation^2 containing super-fire washing her from all sides (given that circles and Laser Points will fly/flicker around her nonstop), healing the layers will present another challenge.

Also, I forgot the key debuff of Red Laser, the aging. While 2-3 hits can age one into dying from old age, the radiation alone accelerates one's aging process immensely, converting all that lifetime stealen into energy for Spagmatron. Her physical body doesn't seem to be immortal, aging till death from all circles around within 10 seconds (she can time leap again) is at a high probability (unless there is something she can do, never heard about normal healing making a character younger tho).

You’re assuming that Asuna even tries to get close in the first place, but even though she can dodge a lot of stuff Spagmatron can throw at her pretty easily, she won’t take any risks unless she finds an opening. She can snipe him from afar with superhuman precision, and the only thing she has to worry about are the red circles with their planetary ranges.

Can the snipe projectiles bypass the Digi-Shields? Spagm summoning Laser-Points in front of them (getting closer to him) will age them till they disappear (if they cannot remain on their own for extremely long times/infinitely, which I assume they don't, as her magic attacks possess Hundreds of kilometers of range). There still are many more defensive 'layerings' Spagmatron has aside from these 2 outher defensives

If Asuna did decide to get close and personal, there’s no reason to believe Asuna wouldn’t get KO’d by that. Your forgetting about Asuna’s raw endurance here In Chapter 3 (I’m bringing up this one a lot here lol) Asuna took a hit for Shizu after she saw that she was about to get impaled through the chest, which went through Asuna’s own before she knew what healing magic was. And what happened when pretty much all of her organs were destroyed? She kept frickin goin, she lost a lot of blood, and she stated that it hurt like never before at first, but a bit later, Asuna forgot that happened at all during the fight. That’s how crazy her endurance and willpower is. If Asuna can survive that and not die, or, y’know, pass out, I don’t think an explosion going off in Asuna’s face will do the trick, even if she doesn’t expect it.

I figured out from high-EXP meter Spagm (once getting into Charged State) having at least 6.83x AP advantage, given Charged State boosts by 4x. Then the nearly instantly exploding circles hidden could have a chance to one-shot her with a good explosion to the head, vaporizing her brain. Still kinda a rough things you put your character through in the story

 

[Rayfire]

The point is circle spam at higher focus (Spagmatron making the turrets to shoot from kilometers away as well) combined with Laser Point spam is getting into tens of thousands, while the circles don't disappear, rather they get more and more powerful and accelerate in speed at an exponential rate. Eventually, they would start to greatly surpass Asuna even at her Supercharge, as Spagm would want them rotating unpredictably around like crazy. Then however if Asuna can time-leap 10 seconds in each 10 seconds, she (at least her mind returning) would evade the point where the circles get as fast.

I don't remember seeing that on spagmatrons profile, but i'll go with it. Due to the VS thread rules, they can't get any more powerful than High 7-A, which restricts how much stronger they can grow, and there is also no reason to believe asuna won't simply adapt to the growing speed of the circle spams either in response, since she has reactive evolution, which will not only help her stay on top in speed, especially if she uses those thunder magic speed amps, possibly getting into blitz levels depending on how fast she wants to end the fight, but also close the AP gap to an extent. (No exact value yet, but asuna can get around 3-4x stronger max with Reactive evolution cause XP system, meaning the AP gap if that happens is now 2.27x, not nearly enough to oneshot)

So, i don't think the circle spams will be a problem considering asuna can also grow and accelerate pretty fast as well. Even if it's not as fast as spagmatrons own adaptation, her speed amps will buy her plenty of time.

Can her healing work at a cellular precision? Even if it can, having to heal nonstop (or at least for a brief whiles) will still raise the difficulty of dodging and fighting Spagamtron.

Well, it perfectly recreates severed limbs and organs, so i think so. The temporary higher-dimensional existence for asuna's playback skill will give her a window of opportunity to heal whenever she wants also.

Red laser burns layers of opponents, it's like a radiation^2 containing super-fire washing her from all sides (given that circles and Laser Points will fly/flicker around her nonstop), healing the layers will present another challenge.

Also, I forgot the key debuff of Red Laser, the aging. While 2-3 hits can age one into dying from old age, the radiation alone accelerates one's aging process immensely, converting all that lifetime stealen into energy for Spagmatron. Her physical body doesn't seem to be immortal, aging till death from all circles around within 10 seconds (she can time leap again) is at a high probability (unless there is something she can do, never heard about normal healing making a character younger tho).

After looking through FU Plus-Droids profile to find it (Weird it's not on spagmatrons profile) i found that it only takes effect on impact. Given that asuna can dodge all the red circle spams that spag can throw at her as explained above ^ i feel asuna should have no problem dodging the red lasers even without danger sense, especially considering she gets warning time with those dots.

Can the snipe projectiles bypass the Digi-Shields? Spagm summoning Laser-Points in front of them (getting closer to him) will age them till they disappear (if they cannot remain on their own for extremely long times/infinitely, which I assume they don't, as her magic attacks possess Hundreds of kilometers of range). There still are many more defensive 'layerings' Spagmatron has aside from these 2 outher defensives

Well, off the top of my head, i'm not exactly sure of bypassing the digi-shields, But I came across this one spagmatrons profile:

Weaknesses: Armor parts slightly melt upon direct impact with extremely powerful forces, Digi-shield forcefield can't "portal attacks" away every time, "cooldown" rises with how powerful the last attack deflected was.

So, if asuna spammed random magic types and combos, Spagmatron's digi-shields would break, and he would thus take damage not sure if it's just the black liquid stuff that spag can regenerate or not either, so that might also be big for asuna

Even if asuna can't land a solid hit somehow from that distance (Even though she has superhuman precision), she could restrain spagmatron through pseudo- telekinesis, AKA, air magic, at least temporarily (Both are Class T), or even use it to launch them into random buildings to deal further damage if need be, and as far as i know, spagmatron can't really do anything about that except attempt to disrupt her with red circles, which she can dodge and defend against as already explained above ^

I figured out from high-EXP meter Spagm (once getting into Charged State) having at least 6.83x AP advantage, given Charged State boosts by 4x. Then the nearly instantly exploding circles hidden could have a chance to one-shot her with a good explosion to the head, vaporizing her brain. Still kinda a rough things you put your character through in the story

They might change it to 8x to oneshot (Im watching the CRT thread for oneshots) but not only is the value to oneshot generally 7.5x currently, but it's also not guaranteed to hit her square in the face either, so one-shotting that way is unreliable, and that's at the very beginning of the fight before asuna's reactive evolution kicks in and brings that AP advantage down to 2.27x as explained earlier

Bakuhatsu is kind of made to be super dark, expect a lot of deaths

Now that i remember it, how would spag deal with asuna's gravity magic if she attempts to restrain his movements at the very least with it? i know spag can ignore other gravity effects inside red circles, but doesn't that mean he cant attack with any of his lasers? Unless there's something he could do i feel like that's an edge for asuna

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Well, it perfectly recreates severed limbs and organs, so i think so. The temporary higher-dimensional existence for asuna's playback skill will give her a window of opportunity to heal whenever she wants also.

How advanced is this exactly? Healing pretty much equals Regen which is capped at Mid for this tourney

 

[Rayfire]

How advanced is this exactly? Healing pretty much equals Regen which is capped at Mid for this tourney

Low-Mid, It's on her profile

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Let's get this battle into the final stages please!

 

[Rayfire]

Okie dokie

Oh, and that reminds me, I could probably argue for Haruka now, I’ll just be a bit slow at times if that helps speed the tourney up

Okay so, as already explained in my reply above ^ I don’t see spagmatron landing a clean hit even if Asuna’s danger sense didn’t work for some of his attacks. Spagmatron can get faster and stronger, but so can Asuna, and her thunder magic speed amps mean she’ll stay on top in speed, so she shouldn’t get hit by those red circles, especially with riftways that could let her get through red circle spams she otherwise couldn’t.

I also think Sonic with speed amps, flying and namely superior acrobatics would dodge even this combo.

Froggy said this ^ In the match against Saturday sonic as well, and i think this should be the same case for asuna, not to mention her other abilities can help her out even more here, and her reactive evolution should let her counter spag's adaptation (Once again, it's mostly a "No u vs No u" Situation, but overall asuna's speed amps can help her insure that she is faster even then in this case, it's mostly power, because at a certain point neither of them can get any stronger cause Asuna's XP and Versus Thread rules)

It’d be deadly if Asuna got hit with the age manipulation, but once again, the dots give Asuna warning time if I am not mistaken, and even if it didn’t, danger sense and superior speed lets Asuna dodge such a blow

As far as I can tell, it’s implied that only the shadow liquid limbs on spagmatron can regen, not the actual robotic parts on his body. Meaning that if the digi-shield gives out and spag gets hit by Asuna spamming, they can’t heal from it, whilst Asuna can heal and undo any progress spagmatron could have done, lasers or radiation.

In fact, fortune would really help Asuna to get through the digi-shield and whatever defence spagmatron could whip out as well.

And if Asuna decided to show off absolute zero prison (Ice magic skill) and managed to hit spagmatron with it (Unsure if he would see it coming, considering that it’d be an entirely new strategy for Asuna) then not only can they not move, but they also can’t use turrets or lasers either. Their only option then is red circles, but Asuna would quickly know what they are and how to avoid them, especially with speed amps. Speaking of which, even if spagmatron can break out after some time, Asuna would presumably have made him get behind in terms of adaptation.

I don’t think spag could come back if Asuna hit him with a riftway to some far away location either, not sure about this tho

So, right now at least, Asuna’s wincons are:

1. Bypassing the digi-shields and other defences to destroy the robotic parts of spagmatrons body
2. BFR through riftways
3. Incap via absolute zero prison
4. Asuna manages to make a skill mid-fight that can defeat him

 

[Froggytron]

Let's get this battle into the final stages please!

IT college is highly demanding (especially on Wednesday being stacked with all the worst subjects and the largest time), but by Rayfire's words, it is cooking time. Time to lay down Spagm's deck from the most part

 

[Rayfire]

IT college is highly demanding (especially on Wednesday being stacked with all the worst subjects and the largest time), but by Rayfire's words, it is cooking time. Time to lay down Spagm's deck from the most part

Take your time

 

[Froggytron]

I don't remember seeing that on spagmatrons profile, but i'll go with it. Due to the VS thread rules, they can't get any more powerful than High 7-A, which restricts how much stronger they can grow, and there is also no reason to believe asuna won't simply adapt to the growing speed of the circle spams either in response, since she has reactive evolution, which will not only help her stay on top in speed, especially if she uses those thunder magic speed amps, possibly getting into blitz levels depending on how fast she wants to end the fight, but also close the AP gap to an extent. (No exact value yet, but asuna can get around 3-4x stronger max with Reactive evolution cause XP system, meaning the AP gap if that happens is now 2.27x, not nearly enough to oneshot)

So, i don't think the circle spams will be a problem considering asuna can also grow and accelerate pretty fast as well. Even if it's not as fast as spagmatrons own adaptation, her speed amps will buy her plenty of time.

On the profile it's mentioned several times that Laser Circles accelerate in power and speed with time, distance traveled and radiation/energy consumed. At least with their speed, no hard limit is defined, in theory, they could be left to accelerate in perfect orbiting patterns to gain infinitely advancing speed with time passed, until they blitz Asuna completely. That however is the case if Asuna won't spam time leap, as circles won't reach speeds blitzing Asuna within 10 seconds she can keep coming back. If she for some reason doesn't, this could be one way for Spagm.

Well, it perfectly recreates severed limbs and organs, so i think so. The temporary higher-dimensional existence for asuna's playback skill will give her a window of opportunity to heal whenever she wants also.

10 seconds (playback's cooldown) is still a big time window for 7-A characters, possibly tens of thousands of moves could happen within that time, Asuna will likely have to regen mid-fight before using playback for a second time.

After looking through FU Plus-Droids profile to find it (Weird it's not on spagmatrons profile) i found that it only takes effect on impact. Given that asuna can dodge all the red circle spams that spag can throw at her as explained above ^ i feel asuna should have no problem dodging the red lasers even without danger sense, especially considering she gets warning time with those dots.

Although I several times argued with Red Laser aging targets with its radiation, it's true I never directly specified it on any profile. Pardon it then, now I know what to fix after the tourney Laser Points alone are indeed dodgeable, but will higher the difficulty when added to most likely paths Asuna would take to dodge orbiting Laser Circles. More sofisticated uses could also be made with them

Well, off the top of my head, i'm not exactly sure of bypassing the digi-shields, But I came across this one spagmatrons profile:

Weaknesses: Armor parts slightly melt upon direct impact with extremely powerful forces, Digi-shield forcefield can't "portal attacks" away every time, "cooldown" rises with how powerful the last attack deflected was.

So, if asuna spammed random magic types and combos, Spagmatron's digi-shields would break, and he would thus take damage not sure if it's just the black liquid stuff that spag can regenerate or not either, so that might also be big for asuna

Even if asuna can't land a solid hit somehow from that distance (Even though she has superhuman precision), she could restrain spagmatron through pseudo- telekinesis, AKA, air magic, at least temporarily (Both are Class T), or even use it to launch them into random buildings to deal further damage if need be, and as far as i know, spagmatron can't really do anything about that except attempt to disrupt her with red circles, which she can dodge and defend against as already explained above ^

In theory yes, practically it will be harder than separating a thousand of 1/3 + 1/3 thin Lego bricks. With full defense play (during which Spagm can still produce more and more Laser Circles, also creating new and new land space turrets shooting them), Spagm had 3 Digi-Shields to constantly switch. Each of them attack reflects an attack (if the attack is small, the 'attack reflect cooldown' of said Digi-Shield will also be very small). In addition to this, before being able to attack reflect another small attack, Digi-Shield absorbs damage, which it constantly tries to discharge. Once a High 7-A mile of absorbed damage happens (given that spam of small attacks eventually overpowers discharging), the singular Digi-Shield temporarily disables itself to quickly fully discharge all damage, while 20% redirecting attack coming through it still.


Spagm has three Digi-Shields to do this nonstop with, as why Im posting the tiny Lego pieces. As well Spagm spams the Red Laser circles ready to detonate (for a scenario where Asuna uses Riftway to TP to him), they would blast/repel and age incoming attacks as well. Funnily enough, that's not nearly the end of it. Even when a small window where attacks go through (40% damage reduced with 2 Didi-shields reactivated while Spagm keeps the reserve one) appears, Spagm has three damage reductions:

• Red Laser defending mode enabled will divide impacts and likely effects of attacks landed
• Intelligent Armor allows to take less damage than normally should happen
• anti-melee Damage Reduction (reducing range attacks with range value of Tens of Kilometers [20KM] or lower by 30%)

And at last, to deal with the final reduced damage dealt to him, Spagm can heal as well by level 3 80% Frogman Physiology, which automatically vacuums nearby materials to repair damages with it. Most of the damages will only be scratches and minor cuts (given how small amount of damage lands on him), which can be filled with original material pulled back glued by around materials, given enough time it becomes full armor again. Note that regenerating Shadow Liquid limbs tank a lot of damage too, and they can regen to 100% of their previous state.

They might change it to 8x to oneshot (Im watching the CRT thread for oneshots) but not only is the value to oneshot generally 7.5x currently, but it's also not guaranteed to hit her square in the face either, so one-shotting that way is unreliable, and that's at the very beginning of the fight before asuna's reactive evolution kicks in and brings that AP advantage down to 2.27x as explained earlier

Given the guarding of Spagm's, I believe Spagm would survive even when Asuna reaches peak High 7-A with her system, although there are Spagm's wincoins making that unlikely bellow >

Bakuhatsu is kind of made to be super dark, expect a lot of deaths

I gave a glance look at chapter 1 expecting a free cookie, but didn't find any. Still could check more sometime

Now that i remember it, how would spag deal with asuna's gravity magic if she attempts to restrain his movements at the very least with it? i know spag can ignore other gravity effects inside red circles, but doesn't that mean he cant attack with any of his lasers? Unless there's something he could do i feel like that's an edge for asuna

About his (and Asuna's gravity), Spagm comes from a world with way denser materials and higher gravity. His materials are super dense as well, and his LS is high enough to move, even better when strengthened with Red Laser strength boost. Best I could see all of this is slowing Spagm's movements hardly noticeably. Yet Spagm doesn't even have to move in this fight.

-----part2-------

Oh, and that reminds me, I could probably argue for Haruka now, I’ll just be a bit slow at times if that helps speed the tourney up

Wait the match 4 of round 2 is on?

Okay so, as already explained in my reply above ^ I don’t see spagmatron landing a clean hit even if Asuna’s danger sense didn’t work for some of his attacks. Spagmatron can get faster and stronger, but so can Asuna, and her thunder magic speed amps mean she’ll stay on top in speed, so she shouldn’t get hit by those red circles, especially with riftways that could let her get through red circle spams she otherwise couldn’t.

Froggy said this ^ In the match against Saturday sonic as well, and i think this should be the same case for asuna, not to mention her other abilities can help her out even more here, and her reactive evolution should let her counter spag's adaptation (Once again, it's mostly a "No u vs No u" Situation, but overall asuna's speed amps can help her insure that she is faster even then in this case, it's mostly power, because at a certain point neither of them can get any stronger cause Asuna's XP and Versus Thread rules)

I don’t think spag could come back if Asuna hit him with a riftway to some far away location either, not sure about this tho

Spagm still has a trump card in this (I saved till now):

• "Digi-shilds" - Spagmatron can use the power of his core to summon an inverse Digi-shield around his opponent, moving alongside him. While active, this full-body forcefield welcomes all enemy attacks in and guarantees they will land, acting as limited Probability Manipulation, while also absorbing opponent's attacks flying through it up to High 7-A mile of damage. Upon reaching it, the shield explodes inwards, disappearing. Furthermore, ranged attacks entering it show a 60% rate of duplicating themselves.

This has enormous potential with its first use when Asuna dodges in a big tight danmaku and had both Playback and Luck cooldowns activated, expanding Asuna's hitbox with a 4-plus meter diameter ball (able to be further somewhat increased), welcoming a ton of age/radiation/heat... inflicting attacks at her from all sides, annihilating her with so many hits at row in a row before she realizes and uses riftway to escape, as she likely haven't seen something like this in her life. And as Gigi-Shild doesn't present harm on its own, danger sense won't notice it. And if Asuna somehow survives, this notable attack will be an enormous nuisance for her through the entire remaining fight

As far as I can tell, it’s implied that only the shadow liquid limbs on spagmatron can regen, not the actual robotic parts on his body. Meaning that if the digi-shield gives out and spag gets hit by Asuna spamming, they can’t heal from it, whilst Asuna can heal and undo any progress spagmatron could have done, lasers or radiation.

After about being called for it 4x times, I finally explained this above xD

In fact, fortune would really help Asuna to get through the digi-shield and whatever defence spagmatron could whip out as well.

The 30-second cooldown will still make it not very noticeable in this crazy danmaku/speed fight unless Rayfire has arguments for this

And if Asuna decided to show off absolute zero prison (Ice magic skill) and managed to hit spagmatron with it (Unsure if he would see it coming, considering that it’d be an entirely new strategy for Asuna) then not only can they not move, but they also can’t use turrets or lasers either. Their only option then is red circles, but Asuna would quickly know what they are and how to avoid them, especially with speed amps. Speaking of which, even if spagmatron can break out after some time, Asuna would presumably have made him get behind in terms of adaptation.

Is it melee or ranged, or both? When ranged, it will be unlikely for the spell to get through all the defenses. If melee, then Spagm's possible wincoin >

1. Bypassing the digi-shields and other defences to destroy the robotic parts of spagmatrons body
3. Incap via absolute zero prison
4. Asuna manages to make a skill mid-fight that can defeat him

All three seem very difficult and unlikely though (as for BFR, how would it capture Spagm? Also, Spagm can contact FU headquarters with his 'Signal receiver/repulsor' to open a portal for him to return, if he is sent in a different universe)

Now for possible Spagm's wincoin ideas:
1. Draining Asuna's EXP and converting her to EXP as a whole with several landed Laser Bubbles on her (bubbles can stack and EXP conversion stacks as well) before she uses Playback in a 10-second cooldown
2. First time use of Digi-Shild could "one-shot" Asuna with a great number of attacks around her, terminating her in multiple ways, including aging she doesn't seem resistant to
3. Red Circles blitzing Asuna given enough time orbiting (although this requires Asuna to let the fight continue and not continuously use Playback)
4. Spagm manages to quickly evolve by stealing enough EXP, and gains Gunnix's abilities with Gunnix's AP converted to attack count, overwhelming Asuna using new learned dangerous level 4 techniques
5. Asuna decides to melee blast/zero prison Spagm and using Riftway teleports under Spagm's shields, getting insta-blasted by Red Circle prepared bombs (although this requires Asuna to use less preferred melee/trickery battle style out of desperation)

Possible wincoin with Asuna getting sick from radiation while unnoticing it (being too enraged in the battle and dodging) or her healing being overwhelmed by all the damage caused by Red Laser effects [I wont call this a wincoin, but it could support in achieving the other upper wincoins ideas mentioned]

 

[Froggytron]

Take your time

Im slower at typing than a snail though, but thanks!

 

[Rayfire]

Im slower at typing than a snail though, but thanks!

Dont worry, me too, which is why you shouldn't expect me to reply to this for a bit Having a look over tho