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[R2M3] Venefica's Tier 7 Tourney: Spagmatron vs Asuna

Froggytron said:
On the profile it's mentioned several times that Laser Circles accelerate in power and speed with time, distance traveled and radiation/energy consumed. At least with their speed, no hard limit is defined, in theory, they could be left to accelerate in perfect orbiting patterns to gain infinitely advancing speed with time passed, until they blitz Asuna completely. That however is the case if Asuna won't spam time leap, as circles won't reach speeds blitzing Asuna within 10 seconds she can keep coming back. If she for some reason doesn't, this could be one way for Spagm.
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Ah, Okay, Thanks for clarifying

While asuna's AP gain has a limit, it's not made clear whether it's the same for speed or not (Haven't decided) but even if we assume it has a limit, spag still won't end up surpassing asuna in speed. Asuna's speed amps alone will put her in blitz ranges right off the bat, and her reactive evolution should further cover for her. Even if she starts to lose that speedblitz edge, Asuna can use time magic to reverse, well, time, and put spagmatron further back in speed, whilst asuna will continue to adapt.
Froggytron said:
Although I several times argued with Red Laser aging targets with its radiation, it's true I never directly specified it on any profile. Pardon it then, now I know what to fix after the tourney 🗿 Laser Points alone are indeed dodgeable, but will higher the difficulty when added to most likely paths Asuna would take to dodge orbiting Laser Circles. More sofisticated uses could also be made with them
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That's true, but like i've said before, asuna is a pretty unpredictable fighter. Once she realizes spagmatron is predicting all her moves, she can switch strategies to confuse it, which will buy her time. Spagm's adaptation isn't instant.
Froggytron said:
In theory yes, practically it will be harder than separating a thousand of 1/3 + 1/3 thin Lego bricks. With full defense play (during which Spagm can still produce more and more Laser Circles, also creating new and new land space turrets shooting them), Spagm had 3 Digi-Shields to constantly switch. Each of them attack reflects an attack (if the attack is small, the 'attack reflect cooldown' of said Digi-Shield will also be very small). In addition to this, before being able to attack reflect another small attack, Digi-Shield absorbs damage, which it constantly tries to discharge. Once a High 7-A mile of absorbed damage happens (given that spam of small attacks eventually overpowers discharging), the singular Digi-Shield temporarily disables itself to quickly fully discharge all damage, while 20% redirecting attack coming through it still.
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Asuna won't like those odds ordinarily, but again, that's why she's got fortune to help her out here. giving herself 75% odds to complete a task as long as it's possible or not super outrageous is nothing to scoff at. She can't use it to cause everything spagmatron has to suddenly fail for no reason, obviously, but it's extremely useful for asuna to get through those defenses. Since asuna would have a 75% chance of breaking through the digi-shields, it's safe to say she could land a blow with that, the only problem is, it has a cooldown.
Froggytron said:
Spagm has three Digi-Shields to do this nonstop with, as why Im posting the tiny Lego pieces. As well Spagm spams the Red Laser circles ready to detonate (for a scenario where Asuna uses Riftway to TP to him), they would blast/repel and age incoming attacks as well. Funnily enough, that's not nearly the end of it. Even when a small window where attacks go through (40% damage reduced with 2 Didi-shields reactivated while Spagm keeps the reserve one) appears, Spagm has three damage reductions:
  • Red Laser defending mode enabled will divide impacts and likely effects of attacks landed
  • Intelligent Armor allows to take less damage than normally should happen
  • anti-melee Damage Reduction (reducing range attacks with range value of Tens of Kilometers [20KM] or lower by 30%
Click to expand...
Well, it's made clear on spagmatrons profile that it can't ALWAYS reflect attacks (Weaknesses category) which is why i'm bringing up fortune here.

If that's the case, and they can't fail like the digi shields, meaning asuna can't just use fortune to bypass them, then that would mean asuna can't harm him. At least, conventionally. Let me explain.

That much damage reduction will obviously massively reduces asuna's actual landed energy, but once asuna see's that when she tries to just blow him to smithereens, then she'll harm him another way, and just do this...

9000 IQ MOVE: Thunder Magic

The robotic parts on spagmatrons body are, obviously, going to be vulnerable conductors. Asuna will use fortune to allow a danmaku skill like "Million streaks" to get through the digi-shields, and thus reach spagmatrons body. If he uses traditional electronics, or anything that uses anything electric at all (I'm very sure he does, he's literally made in a factory) Asuna could shortcircuit him, which would, disable all of his abilities, and allow asuna to go in for a killing blow. Asuna isn't all brawn and no brains, you know.

Since spagmatron typically doesn't move around, like you say, then this will be even easier for asuna. Even if the first round doesn't land somehow, asuna can always use another or amplify the skill as well
Froggytron said:
I gave a glance look at chapter 1 expecting a free cookie, but didn't find any. Still could check more sometime 👀
Click to expand...
Apologies bro, Here it is 🍪
Froggytron said:
Spagm still has a trump card in this (I saved till now):
  • "Digi-shilds" - Spagmatron can use the power of his core to summon an inverse Digi-shield around his opponent, moving alongside him. While active, this full-body forcefield welcomes all enemy attacks in and guarantees they will land, acting as limited Probability Manipulation, while also absorbing opponent's attacks flying through it up to High 7-A mile of damage. Upon reaching it, the shield explodes inwards, disappearing. Furthermore, ranged attacks entering it show a 60% rate of duplicating themselves.
This has enormous potential with its first use when Asuna dodges in a big tight danmaku and had both Playback and Luck cooldowns activated, expanding Asuna's hitbox with a 4-plus meter diameter ball (able to be further somewhat increased), welcoming a ton of age/radiation/heat... inflicting attacks at her from all sides, annihilating her with so many hits at row in a row before she realizes and uses riftway to escape, as she likely haven't seen something like this in her life. And as Gigi-Shild doesn't present harm on its own, danger sense won't notice it. And if Asuna somehow survives, this notable attack will be an enormous nuisance for her through the entire remaining fight 🗿
Click to expand...
Interesting... However, YOUR MOTHER.
The description of this on asuna's profile is pretty vague, at least right now, but i can explain it for you. Basically, bakuhatsu possesses a couple of video game-like traits, including a blocking system, which, as long as the opponent isn't massively stronger than them (About one-shot range) Allows adventurers to block any attack except for status effects or sumthin. This means that, when need be, asuna will block any attacks, like lasers or red circles or whatever, that come close, thus reflecting them so that they get absorbed by the very digi-shield spagmatron put around her, which would make it pointless, especially if she realizes what spagmatron is doing.

Even if we assumed asuna didn't block the lasers at all, or just simply had it turned off, I think you're forgetting about asuna's speed edge as well, and the various methods she has at her disposal to stay faster than spagmatron, so it'll struggle to land a hit even with this. Danger sense might not detect something like this, sure, but it can detect the age and radiation manip lasers coming at her, which could tell asuna the intention behind spags attacks, therefore, she could discover the digi-shild around her even if it isn't visible as implied

With how often and varied the uses of riftways can be also, (Especially considering she'd find it ideal here to dodge all the danmaku) it's entirely possible that asuna would teleport around so much that they are only around her for brief periods. She can teleport away from them, like you say, so the gigi-shields would hardly be a hinderence to asuna, even if she doesn't realize it when the lasers are flying at her.
Froggytron said:
The 30-second cooldown will still make it not very noticeable in this crazy danmaku/speed fight unless Rayfire has arguments for this
Click to expand...
Well, at the same time, it can also be active for the same amount of time (Cooldown still gets turned on tho) So 30 seconds of mostly everything in asuna's favor is nothing to scoff at.
Froggytron said:
Is it melee or ranged, or both? When ranged, it will be unlikely for the spell to get through all the defenses. If melee, then Spagm's possible wincoin >
Click to expand...
Ranged, cuz asuna shot it through a riftway to restrain a certain someone (No spoilers)

But if asuna has fortune activated to get through the digi-shields chance-related reflection and blocking, spagm could be in trouble if he's in absolute zero ice, which he doesn't have any resistances to
Froggytron said:
All three seem very difficult and unlikely though (as for BFR, how would it capture Spagm? Also, Spagm can contact FU headquarters with his 'Signal receiver/repulsor' to open a portal for him to return, if he is sent in a different universe)
Click to expand...
It could send him to any far away location asuna can think of, but if spagmatron can escape with that receiver, could he do it constantly though?
Froggytron said:
1. Draining Asuna's EXP and converting her to EXP as a whole with several landed Laser Bubbles on her (bubbles can stack and EXP conversion stacks as well) before she uses Playback in a 10-second cooldown
Click to expand...
I'd say this isn't feasible, cause asuna could not only keep up a speed edge, but asuna will adapt quickly and will know how to avoid them, and has plenty of tools to do so as mentioned earlier.
Froggytron said:
2. First time use of Digi-Shild could "one-shot" Asuna with a great number of attacks around her, terminating her in multiple ways, including aging she doesn't seem resistant to
Click to expand...
Already explained why this won't really be effective even if we assumed asuna's blocking and parrying was turned off ^
Froggytron said:
5. Asuna decides to melee blast/zero prison Spagm and using Riftway teleports under Spagm's shields, getting insta-blasted by Red Circle prepared bombs (although this requires Asuna to use less preferred melee/trickery battle style out of desperation)
Click to expand...
Asuna won't just go melee for no reason, especially considering the danmaku red circles all around her, so this also isn't really feasible
Froggytron said:
4. Spagm manages to quickly evolve by stealing enough EXP, and gains Gunnix's abilities with Gunnix's AP converted to attack count, overwhelming Asuna using new learned dangerous level 4 techniques
Click to expand...
That's assuming Spag gets enough EXP to do that, which is very unlikely, especially once asuna see's the red circle and knows how to avoid them. She has plenty of experience with danmaku already, so skill-wise this wouldn't be very hard either.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm very sure spag can't just get gunnix's abilities and not transform into the tier 6 monstrosity, which is barred from tourney rules.

Even then, Asuna can also gain new abilities (As long as they are not too complex for her imagination) mid-fight, which is why i put that as one of her wincons, which you haven't responded to yet, which would put them on equal footing, and also should be a considerable edge for asuna in this fight as well.

I feel like we're headed for incon here lol, though venefica wants us to wrap this up soon and we're going in circles, so i'm already prepping arguments for asuna to be doing the most in this this fight, and thus being the one to advance hehehe
 
Rayfire said:
Ah, Okay, Thanks for clarifying

While asuna's AP gain has a limit, it's not made clear whether it's the same for speed or not (Haven't decided) but even if we assume it has a limit, spag still won't end up surpassing asuna in speed. Asuna's speed amps alone will put her in blitz ranges right off the bat, and her reactive evolution should further cover for her. Even if she starts to lose that speedblitz edge, Asuna can use time magic to reverse, well, time, and put spagmatron further back in speed, whilst asuna will continue to adapt.

That's true, but like i've said before, asuna is a pretty unpredictable fighter. Once she realizes spagmatron is predicting all her moves, she can switch strategies to confuse it, which will buy her time. Spagm's adaptation isn't instant.

Asuna won't like those odds ordinarily, but again, that's why she's got fortune to help her out here. giving herself 75% odds to complete a task as long as it's possible or not super outrageous is nothing to scoff at. She can't use it to cause everything spagmatron has to suddenly fail for no reason, obviously, but it's extremely useful for asuna to get through those defenses. Since asuna would have a 75% chance of breaking through the digi-shields, it's safe to say she could land a blow with that, the only problem is, it has a cooldown.

Well, it's made clear on spagmatrons profile that it can't ALWAYS reflect attacks (Weaknesses category) which is why i'm bringing up fortune here.

If that's the case, and they can't fail like the digi shields, meaning asuna can't just use fortune to bypass them, then that would mean asuna can't harm him. At least, conventionally. Let me explain.

That much damage reduction will obviously massively reduces asuna's actual landed energy, but once asuna see's that when she tries to just blow him to smithereens, then she'll harm him another way, and just do this...

9000 IQ MOVE: Thunder Magic

The robotic parts on spagmatrons body are, obviously, going to be vulnerable conductors. Asuna will use fortune to allow a danmaku skill like "Million streaks" to get through the digi-shields, and thus reach spagmatrons body. If he uses traditional electronics, or anything that uses anything electric at all (I'm very sure he does, he's literally made in a factory) Asuna could shortcircuit him, which would, disable all of his abilities, and allow asuna to go in for a killing blow. Asuna isn't all brawn and no brains, you know.

Since spagmatron typically doesn't move around, like you say, then this will be even easier for asuna. Even if the first round doesn't land somehow, asuna can always use another or amplify the skill as well

Apologies bro, Here it is 🍪

Interesting... However, YOUR MOTHER.
The description of this on asuna's profile is pretty vague, at least right now, but i can explain it for you. Basically, bakuhatsu possesses a couple of video game-like traits, including a blocking system, which, as long as the opponent isn't massively stronger than them (About one-shot range) Allows adventurers to block any attack except for status effects or sumthin. This means that, when need be, asuna will block any attacks, like lasers or red circles or whatever, that come close, thus reflecting them so that they get absorbed by the very digi-shield spagmatron put around her, which would make it pointless, especially if she realizes what spagmatron is doing.

Even if we assumed asuna didn't block the lasers at all, or just simply had it turned off, I think you're forgetting about asuna's speed edge as well, and the various methods she has at her disposal to stay faster than spagmatron, so it'll struggle to land a hit even with this. Danger sense might not detect something like this, sure, but it can detect the age and radiation manip lasers coming at her, which could tell asuna the intention behind spags attacks, therefore, she could discover the digi-shild around her even if it isn't visible as implied

With how often and varied the uses of riftways can be also, (Especially considering she'd find it ideal here to dodge all the danmaku) it's entirely possible that asuna would teleport around so much that they are only around her for brief periods. She can teleport away from them, like you say, so the gigi-shields would hardly be a hinderence to asuna, even if she doesn't realize it when the lasers are flying at her.

Well, at the same time, it can also be active for the same amount of time (Cooldown still gets turned on tho) So 30 seconds of mostly everything in asuna's favor is nothing to scoff at.

Ranged, cuz asuna shot it through a riftway to restrain a certain someone (No spoilers)

But if asuna has fortune activated to get through the digi-shields chance-related reflection and blocking, spagm could be in trouble if he's in absolute zero ice, which he doesn't have any resistances to

It could send him to any far away location asuna can think of, but if spagmatron can escape with that receiver, could he do it constantly though?

I'd say this isn't feasible, cause asuna could not only keep up a speed edge, but asuna will adapt quickly and will know how to avoid them, and has plenty of tools to do so as mentioned earlier.

Already explained why this won't really be effective even if we assumed asuna's blocking and parrying was turned off ^

Asuna won't just go melee for no reason, especially considering the danmaku red circles all around her, so this also isn't really feasible

That's assuming Spag gets enough EXP to do that, which is very unlikely, especially once asuna see's the red circle and knows how to avoid them. She has plenty of experience with danmaku already, so skill-wise this wouldn't be very hard either.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm very sure spag can't just get gunnix's abilities and not transform into the tier 6 monstrosity, which is barred from tourney rules.

Even then, Asuna can also gain new abilities (As long as they are not too complex for her imagination) mid-fight, which is why i put that as one of her wincons, which you haven't responded to yet, which would put them on equal footing, and also should be a considerable edge for asuna in this fight as well.

I feel like we're headed for incon here lol, though venefica wants us to wrap this up soon and we're going in circles, so i'm already prepping arguments for asuna to be doing the most in this this fight, and thus being the one to advance hehehe
Click to expand...
Bumping this since it's getting buried
 
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