Strongest One Punch General Discussion Thread v5

[PaChi2]

Geryuganshoop is literally Boros' Right-Hand Man. Stated in the Anime Guidebook.

1) Does Geryuganshoop have hands? Let alone right ones?

2) How do you know they are a ma? ƒæǃæÇ

I am joking, btw.

 

[Udlmaster]

Geryuganshoop is literally Boros' Right-Hand Man. Stated in the Anime Guidebook.

1) Does Geryuganshoop have hands? Let alone right ones?

2) How do you know they are a ma? ƒæǃæÇ

I am joking, btw.

 

[Chaingunfighter1]

Is there any relevance to the fact that Melzargard's call for support was to have the artillery crew fire directly on his position (with High 7-A shells?) Geryuganshoop warned him not to get killed by friendly fire, but at the same time, when the shells themselves were fired straight at his position, he seemed completely confident in his own survival.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

Is there any relevance to the fact that Melzargard's call for support was to have the artillery crew fire directly on his position (with High 7-A shells?) Geryuganshoop warned him not to get killed by friendly fire, but at the same time, when the shells themselves were fired straight at his position, he seemed completely confident in his own survival.

I have thought about this before. I think it's worth a discussion.

 

[Chaingunfighter1]

Yeah. While I don't necessarily think he could take the High 7-A shells directly, even just being in the vicinity of a single large mountain busting attack would be 7-A territory, and the aliens fired quite a few shells for support.

 

[DbzDB2]

i thought the only reason why geryu is that powerful is because he can eliminate friction with his telekinesis, whereas the other monsters cant.

 

[Ryukama]

Yeah Gery's whole attack explicitly violates physics so that the rocks don't evaporate in the first place. I'm uncertain about applying KE to it.

 

[DbzDB2]

not what i was trying to say but okay

 

[Tetsucabrah]

But the reason the technique is dangerous is because of the speed the projectiles are thrown at.

 

[Andytrenom]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Geryu only eliminates friction between rocks and air doesn't he? I don't think his ability was established to be physics manipulation at a level where he can ignore kinetic energy, nor does it sound like a reasonable assumption given what his stated capabilities are

 

[Ryukama]

What I'm saying is we shouldn't put an attack that explicitly violates physics in order to even work at a level it's never shown to be based on physics.

 

[Andytrenom]

Was that actually described to be physics manipulation btw? Or just stared to be an ability to eliminate friction

Because if it's the latter, the attack is actually more in line with physics than normal, because it would be subject to the realistic effects of high velocity and only manage to work conveniently because of an in verse explanation.

 

[Ryukama]

"His attack is multi-city busting"

"Since when has it shown to be that powerful"

"Well it travels near lightspeed. So we can say it's that strong because his attack has to be abiding by physics"

"But then how are these rocks not being destroyed? How come this attack doesn't cause a massive explosion or any of the other affects of an object moving at near light speed?"

"Because the attack doesn't abide by physics"

Do you see what I mean here? We're assuming physics have to be obeyed by an attack that clearly doesn't follow physics in order to put it at a level it's otherwise not demonstrated to be at. If everyone else is fine with that sure but I'm uncertain about that.

 

[Andytrenom]

Giant strawman Ryu, especially since I am not even stating the attack doesn't abide by physics, I'm asking you if the attack was stated to ignore physics or just eliminate friction

 

[Ryukama]

It clearly doesn't abide by physics or else the rocks would have disintegrated and the attack would've cause an enormous explosion, along with many other consequences. In order to justify that, you have to admit it in some ways doesn't abide by physics. Therefore I'm not personally comfortable with assuming it abides by physics in another way to put it at a level it otherwise wouldn't be suggested at.

But either way I'm going to bed and I'm fine if everyone else wants to accept the calc.

 

[Andytrenom]

You can say that about not only a large number of KE calcs but a large number of calcs in general. "If it was abiding by physics it would have this and this consequences but since it doesn't we can't rate it according to physics". And once again you are kinda ignoring my question , was it actually explicitly stated to ignore physics or just friction?

 

[SuperAPM]

Here is the full answer given by Murata:

"hm~, I'm not sure. Black holes seem too powerful. I won't know for sure without asking ONE. But his ability to control flying object should be above Tatsumaki, because he can eliminate the friction between rocks and air. If Tatsumaki throws rocks like he does, her output will be too powerful, the temperature increase due to friction and pressure, and evaporate the rocks in an instant. Geryuganshoop's psychokinesis can eliminate the friction between objects and air, the rocks will fly at sub-light speed*, that's the setting I based my drawing on. Tatsumaki can throw very large objects, but there's a limit to how fast she can throw them. Geryuganshoop is the greatest psychic in the universe after all. That's what I think. (he repeats this several times"

https://onepunchman.fandom.com/wiki/Interviews/Stream_Q/A_4#7.2F5.2F2018

 

[Ryukama]

This attack has no feats outside of the statement that it is really fast. We don't just upgrade every single speedster by applying a KE calc to them, even when their movement speed clearly doesn't generate that level of power.

What difference does it make? Removing air and friction from the equation is violating physics. The attack in general violates physics.

 

[SuperAPM]

I don't understand why you're being so stringent about this Ryu

I appreciate the effort of course but I don't see why Its necessary in this case

 

[Ryukama]

It is past 2 AM for me and I need to wake up early.

Like I said, I was just expressing some concerns. If everyone else agrees to use the calc then I have zero issue with that. I'm leaving the conversation now. Everyone else can have the final say.

 

[SuperAPM]

Right, well obviously I'm all for it. Therefir should still be as well.

How does everybody else vote?

 

[SuperAPM]

Anyway, have a nice rest Ryu

 

[Andytrenom]

It makes a difference because friction is one force, having the ability to ignore it specifically doesn't mean you will ignore physics in general or that it violating physics in a different way is a good assumption.

And the speedster point doesn't make much sense either since the case here is something accepted by the standards

"A projectile has been calculated to move at a certain speed, such as a cannonball or a spear" (it does say calculated but being confirmed to have a speed by other sources should also logically apply)

Applying KE to speedster on the other hand is generally rejected

 

[Qawsedf234]

I do get Ryu's hesitation in accepting the calc, but it doesn't break scaling and the only people it applies to are already 7-A in the first place.

 

[SuperAPM]

I concur with Qaws. Is it generally in agreement that Melz and Grori shouldn't scale as well?

 

[Ryukama]

I see what you mean

 

[Andytrenom]

There is still another concern with the calc, do the assumptions for the calc line up with what we accept as Geryu's attack speed? The calc uses 30% SoL as lowball speed and higher values for the other end. As far as I am aware, we use baseline relativistic for Geryu, or 10%. Whatever figure we actually scale people to, that should be what the value used in the calc is

 

[SuperAPM]

Why is 10% the end that's accepted?

 

[Andytrenom]

10% is baseline relativistic, so unless you're specifically accepted to be higher this is the value that should be assumed

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2993721

This is where the statement and what degree of "near light speed" is most valid was discussed

 

[SuperAPM]

I don't really agree with the reasoning presented there to be honest. The whole reasoning for it was that the prefix can actually be translated as "sub" rather than "near," but that is a tremendous distinction without a difference. In context, at least when discussing about speed, "Sub" is used to denote something that is just under whatever speed is being described. At least, as I know of, do correct me if I'm wrong. But if we used this line of reasoning we could say that Humans themselves are "Sub-Sonic" because they are still technically below the speed of sound. That's obviously not what its used for. Even a plane flying at aroun 575 MPH isn't considered Sub-Sonic, at least to my knowledge. I don't think semantically differentiating between "Sub" or "Near" to be a reasonable method to measure his actual speed.

 

[SuperAPM]

Don't know how legit this is, but USklaverei did leave this comment on that page. Quote

So I went to get the Kanji and I went to see and there was no mistake.

In fact the Kanji õ║£ means Sub , but when it joins the other Kanji the pronunciation can change. [1] In the case here it can be:

õ║£ÕàëÚǃ

Near light speed or sublight speed

Here they mean the same thing, just change the words.

Sub is basically something with a 'hierarchically inferior' sense.

Basically this is to show that this is a little below the speed of light.

 

[Udlmaster]

Yeah, õ║£ÕàëÚǃ (which was what Murata said) translates to "Near Light speed" this would have to mean it's closer to the end than the start meaning anywhere from 50% to 99.999999999r%

 

[SuperAPM]

I'm fine taking somewhere between 30-50%, I just anything lower than that to be to low

 

[Udlmaster]

I'd recommend the low ball of the "rounding" logic, so 50%, this also lines up with the 30-50% too.

 

[Golfgan]

I don't really agree with the reasoning presented there to be honest. The whole reasoning for it was that the prefix can actually be translated as "sub" rather than "near," but that is a tremendous distinction without a difference. In context, at least when discussing about speed, "Sub" is used to denote something that is just under whatever speed is being described. At least, as I know of, do correct me if I'm wrong. But if we used this line of reasoning we could say that Humans themselves are "Sub-Sonic" because they are still technically below the speed of sound. That's obviously not what its used for. Even a plane flying at aroun 575 MPH isn't considered Sub-Sonic, at least to my knowledge. I don't think semantically differentiating between "Sub" or "Near" to be a reasonable method to measure his actual speed.

Basically, you're saying something like:

""" sub-light cannot mean "any speed below the speed of light" in Murata's context therefore sublight must mean "more than 50% the speed of light". """

This is clearly a case of false dichotomy.

Here is a third option: sub-light would mean "relativistic" in which case 10% the SoL would be a good fit.

 

[SuperAPM]

My point is that extrapolating Murata's comment to somehow mean "10% relativistic" is completely arbitrary. Sub-Luminal velocity is defined as any speed below the speed of light, and solely using that to determine its speed could mean its literally anything from Mach 5189 ro whatever to human speeds. Context is important. There'd be absolutely no point in mentioning that an attack travels at Sub-Luminal Velocity if said velocity is not at a level that can be rounded up to Lightspeed itself. Namely, any value from 50-90%.

Might as well just leave this while I'm at it

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Dariel_Senju/Geryuganshoop_AP#comm-2943162

 

[Qawsedf234]

As before, if you want to upgrade speed there's like four other CRTs about that currently active.

 

[SuperAPM]

I will propose the changes on the Speed Upgrade thread then, thank you for reminding me.

 

[Udlmaster]

Do you guys agree with my ability changes for the Psychics?

 

[DbzDB2]

shouldn't geryu's durability be 7-B as well