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STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!
- Thread starter Phoenks
- Start date
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**** you
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what?
I am talking about in general
It pretty common knowledge that anyone can turn into a monster
Hell monsters go around shouting their origins all the time in OPM and no one sees anything entirely weird about it as it's a normal thing
Some examples being guys like Crablante or Vaccine Man
This is just a straight up plot hole
Or a retcon so ONE and Murata can give more GOD lore
Recon1511
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It's not really, who is going to pay attention to what a monster has to say? Most civilians would just be running for their lives and even if people noticed it it would just be a rumour at best, and a very recent one considering that monsters appearances have been skyrocketing just in the last 3 years.
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Stich: Status report! I need to know the conditions of the S class heroes we sent to god’s dimension!!
Watchdog man: It’s quiet.
Watchdog man: It’s quiet.
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ok so the current list of things that need to be done
1. need to make a thread removing scaling via hero association's threat levels, and monster association ratings are still a bit odd, maybe we can just turn those into likely ratings but idk
2. Get 40 megaton elderpede calc accepted
3. Get a calc on zombieman bending metal bars
4. convince someone to make the blog for that 3-C sp^2 calc that was 5x baseline or something?
5. limiters page
6. Get darkshine to downscale heavily from golden sperm since he literally took a hit and survived without having been impaled or having any bones break or anything.
7. figure out how the hell I can squeeze an upgrade out of metal knight
1. need to make a thread removing scaling via hero association's threat levels, and monster association ratings are still a bit odd, maybe we can just turn those into likely ratings but idk
2. Get 40 megaton elderpede calc accepted
3. Get a calc on zombieman bending metal bars
4. convince someone to make the blog for that 3-C sp^2 calc that was 5x baseline or something?
5. limiters page
6. Get darkshine to downscale heavily from golden sperm since he literally took a hit and survived without having been impaled or having any bones break or anything.
7. figure out how the hell I can squeeze an upgrade out of metal knight
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How I view it, it was a portion of God, plus a God amped EC to push him that far.
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why would eldepede lose his god amp tho?
edit: wait nvm it's cause he got his ass kicked by blast like cosmic garou and lost his power lol
edit: wait nvm it's cause he got his ass kicked by blast like cosmic garou and lost his power lol
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Wait so was vaccine man god amped then? He has the energy balls that are the same as homeless emperor and cosmic garou's nuclear fission, so it's possiible that he was sent by god, like sage centipede
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Everything's coming up aces.
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Bruh, threat leveling scaling is not that bad. At worst I would just use "likely" before threat level scaling.
Also, MA disaster levels are solely AP based, and yet they still line up well with HA rankings.
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an 8-B with hax, speed, or just extreme genius could be threat level dragon+, while a 3-A with 9-C dura and below average human speed that is borderline passive to everything would be threat level wolf or tiger
it's an extreme example but hero association threat levels are insanely unreliable, and then we get shit like zombieman being able to one shot captain mizuki a hundred times over like wtf
beefcake himself only has "demon level AP" yet without AD he would have been upgraded to dragon simply because of doing damage over time, so there's not really a case for threat level scaling with HA ratings anymore
MA is fishy, they claim it's power based yet they use the same system, and then you still have pureblood getting mauled by zombieman's....handheld guns, and an axe. 90% of B class and 99% of C class would be completely useless if normal weapons like that are able to destroy your neighborhood
even nyan just uses piercing damage and dura neg, and is still dragon level without any 7-B feats
not that he isn't 7-B, I'm sure there's some kind of eldepede scaling somewhere down the line, but still, threat level scaling is an L
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I say it's actually decent, we might even get a hint of variety with matchups against non 7-B characters
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The same guns that shattered his entire arm.
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Scan?
One's quote is just wrong. Even the in universe databook says Beefcake is still only demon, even after mentioning his crater feat one page prior.
Yeah, they use the same naming conventions. That doesn't mean their rankings are wrong. If you say a ball weighs 500 grams and are wrong, and I say it's 250 grams, that doesn't mean I'm wrong just because I used the same unit.
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Yes, exactly
I don’t feel like looking for it, but everybody knows there are more factors than AP, meaning AP cannot be determined from threat level in the hero association
Yes, and you’re missing the point entirely
The fact that he could have become dragon level through damage over time completely disproves the idea that it’s AP based, since even if he punched 1000 times and became dragon level, he still would be 13 megatons, meaning a dragon level who has beefcake’s AP could exist, completely obliterating the idea that every dragon level must be stronger than 13 megatons
Ok but this analogy is completely stupid
the hero association isn’t wrong, they literally invented threat levels (not AP based) and the monster association copies them.
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This is just wrong. Disaster levels aren't remotely based on speed or even durability. The fact that Beefcake's Disaster level was based on the destruction he caused directly contradicts your own point here.
Hell, even the fact that a swarm of mosquitos with **** all durability or the Three Crows can have a disaster level of Demon based on the combined destruction they're capable of causing shows why your point is wrong.
You do realise that Stinger kills Tiger levels with a Bamboo shoot, right? His weaponry is far stronger than their IRL counterparts, which is evident by the size of the muzzle flash they created and the fact that they pushed back Pureblood a large distance.
Plus, Zombieman is strong enough to bend metal bars without snapping his arms, and yet these guns shattered them.
And they're utterly useless against anything except Wolf level threats (if even that), go figure.
This is just head canon. I don't know what to tell you.
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Then what does bringing up Pureblood being damaged actually contribute?
"Everybody knows that x" is not an argument. Also, in the Bonus Chapter "Disster Level", it implies that there is a strict power relation between monsters. The issue is that the system is so focused on the AP of the monster they ignore other factors.
Your argument is built on a bad quote. Beefcake was never, and could ever be dragon level. Even after his all out barrage, the HA still classified him as demon, along with an objective databook that ONE APPROVED OF.
The analogy isn't wrong. You are saying MA ratings are fishy because they use Wolf, Tiger, Demon, and Dragon ratings.
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some people are saying blast was only injured from fighting god and not EC. i kinda disagree. cus in that panel, you can clearly see Blast surprised to see God, which means god was just then making his entrance and Blast was already covered in blood and injured. my headcanon (aka way of coping) is that blast was just a lot weaker back then? but then he also fought god at that time so how could he be so weak that he could get hurt by EC? idk bro maybe im missing something but if i am please dont rip my anus apart cus some of yall scare me fr
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What if blast is only psychically as strong as EC but his warp powers grant him higher ap
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speed and durability (and intelligence) all fall under difficulty of extermination
your own scan is the one I actually was looking for, so thanks for helping me prove my point
You're literally proving my point, a bunch of 10-C mosquitos doing ******* environmental damage does not mean shit for their AP, and crows getting demon level through combined capability, not even through their AP
sorry but this is stupid, twice in a row you're literally helping me make arguments I didn't even know I had on my side
sure
sure, 9-C zombieman is real
ok.
I'm saying the current reasoning based on nyan being 7-B sucks ass if we're just going by threat level scaling, not that nyan isn't 7-B
scans when
and you're somehow still missing the point
please, shut the hell up about him not being dragon level, because the rating he actually had doesn't matter, what matters is the fact that damage over time is even a factor in threat level in the first place.
I'm saying they're fishy because they're very directly based on a system that uses things other than AP, so if it turns out that the system is actually the same, then that would make MA ratings wrong
of course it could always just be a different system with the same names, which is why I still said it would be worth a likely rating
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Recon1511
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B and A Class can deal with Wolf and Tiger levels just fine, mostly...
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"taking into consideration the monster's destructive power, aggression, difficulty of extermination, and so on"
a 9-C in destructive power could be stupidly difficult to exterminate due to its speed and intelligence, and durability being off the charts, and get a demon or dragon rating
or maybe it's 7-A, but not aggressive enough, for example, maybe it declared that it would only destroy a few buildings specifically, in that case it would be a tiger or whatever rating that gets
so yeah
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I literally just showed a scan of durability not being a factor. Plus, it says aggression is a factor, not intelligence.
"doing ******* environmental damage" "not AP".
Which is my point. The culmination of their threat stacks up.
It certainly helps when you remove any and all context from the scan.
Sure, ignore the point that was made, or the fact that Pureblood can literally rip people in half.
You're literally not giving anything for that though. You're just saying muh piercing damage and calling it a day.
Ziller said B and C.
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second scan seems fine tho, since it specifically implies that it values AP over everything else
we can only use disaster levels that were confirmed to have been given by psykos, though, not the hero association
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No? Are you sane? Just because durability wasn't that specific monster's strong suit doesn't mean it's not a factor. I shouldn't ******* have to explain this to you when you're literally the one who used the "difficulty of extermination is a factor" scan but here I ******* go
the monster was not durable, so we can assume it could have been faster, smarter, or even had a higher AP
but a monster can have shitty dura and great ap, or great dura and shitty AP, that doesn't mean that AP isn't a factor for durability guy, or dura isn't a factor for AP guy, it just means that wasn't their strong suit, and they had other factors.
You brought up valid points earlier, which I recognized, but now you're just being genuinely stupid with this one.
Intelligence STILL falls under difficulty of extermination, cause it can be difficult to exterminate someone who's ten times smarter than you, even if you're ten thousand times stronger. Hence Joseph Joestar's existence.
throwing a million mosquitos at a building where each mosquito is tasked with picking some crumbs off its structure would be causing 8-C damage, and yet, throwing a million mosquitos at an 8-C character is going to do nothing at all
wow, and as an admin you should already know this, I'm like 60% sure we even have this mentioned in some of our standards pages.
exactly, which is literally what I am trying to prove??????????? what the hell are you doing?
do you realize how bad it is for your case that monsters that are not 7-B could get demon level simply by being part of a team that's hard to get rid of, and could destroy enough buildings to destroy a city over a period of time?
coming from the person who tried to cherry pick parts of the threat level scan, while completely ignoring the entire spiel about difficulty of extermination being a factor. Average staff member behavior
I wasn't ignoring you, it's called conceding a point, something I'm open minded enough to do.
And ok, 9-B pureblood, that's still fine. Zombieman still downscales anyways, he's physically inferior to pureblood.
this isn't worth arguing, and doesn't even affect anything anyways, since I've already admitted that MA ratings are fine
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Why is Pureblood 8-B but Zombieman for some reason is 9-A?
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fixed
8-B downgrade crt happened, I think they just forgot about him
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Chapter 80.5. I can't link it because the site is a no no on VSBW and I can't access imigur.
My point is that the quote that implies that destruction over time is a factor in disaster level is in it of itself wrong. Also, chill my guy lol. We've had no beef before this XD.
This is a subsection of the Naming Fallacy. Just because they use the same naming conventions doesn't mean they're using the same qualifiers.
Recon1511
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Im in the middle of applying the 8-B downgrade CRT thats why
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You're literally the one making this claim in the first place. So yes, you should have to explain it.
Also, if you actually read the scan, it said it's an aggregate measurement. So no, a flying brick would not be Tiger level just because it can withstand a tank shot, but they outright say in the series that it would if it could deal extreme damage, like flattening a building. Please me any example where someone is given a threat level based on speed or sheer durability?
AP, hence the point.
A point you still haven't remotely proven. Stop making shit up because nobody says intelligence is a large factor.
It's not based on comparisons between characters (although that's a way to figure out what threat level to assign them, IIRC), it's based on their ability to threaten citizens and infrastructure. By this logic, no Dragon should be Dragon level because Tatsumaki could flatten them.
This doesn't remotely support your point. You're just projecting your own beliefs onto the scan in order to change the context of the entire point.
The fact is, The Three Crows are a group that got one-shot by A-Class heroes, and don't increase in speed when combined. It was their combined ability to deal damage and threaten lives that made them a Demon level threat. If we went by your logic, they'd probably still be Tiger level.
In the most indirect way possible.
Zombieman can clash with him.
They're based on the same system, and the HA gives those monsters the same threat level based on their combat data that Drive Knight stole from the MA. It's obviously 1:1.
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looked at the chapter and it seems smile man goes from one shotting a demon to struggling with a tiger, along will multiple statements of threat levels being unreliable
thanks
well, it's an author statement, and there's really no evidence you've given to disprove the author statement
the burden of example doesn't fall on me. It's directly stated that difficulty of extermination (which covers a shit ton of things, as I've explained already) is a factor. Now you explain why you get to ignore that there are other factors and assume every monster ranked dragon scales above beefcake. Can you prove that there weren't other factors that led to the characters becoming dragon? On top of that, the man even says "and so on" which opens the possibility to tons of other things being factors, further increase how ridiculously unreliable threat levels are, and thus exposing your completely baseless, reverse burden of proof, absolutely insane arguments as being useless until you give me some evidence. I'm too tired for this bullshit.
You cherry picked the **** out of my post, completely ignoring the speed and intelligence part. Being stupid is one thing, but if you're going to engage in blatantly malicious debating practice, there's no reason to do this with you, since you're just gonna ******* say something wrong, get praised for it cause you're staff, and nobody is going to come out of this argument having changed their views or thought. If you want to win the argument, don't cherry pick right at my face, either actually come up with a good argument, or learn that it's ok to change your mind, like I do, like normal ******* people do.
Do you know what the phrase difficulty of extermination means? It means "how hard they are to kill"
now, who is harder to kill, Jim, or Jim with an IQ of 200. I'll wait for your response.
what does this have to do with absolutely anything I said whatsoever? I was explaining why a horde of mosquitos that can pick apart an 8-C structure can't kill an 8-C character, and somehow you took that as me saying whatever this is.
Yes you idiot, them being combined doesn't increase their AP by your own admission, it just gives them numbers, making them harder to exterminate. I could have literally just sent what you sent just now, and I would have used it to prove my own point
I'm genuinely arguing with someone who gives a paragraph on why I'm right, and then says "and that's why you're wrong" and you have no idea how frustrating it is to put up with
gonna kill myself
"sure" means yes
it's literally one of the most direct ways I could have agreed with you, god damn, you're trying to make me out as being rude over me literally ******* agreeing with you, and you ******* wonder why I'm so annoyed with you
STOP. PRESSING ME. ABOUT. SOMETHING I LITERALLY AGREE WITH YOU ON.
yes, comparable yet inferior since he's blatantly overpowered and blitzed during the entire parts of the fight that we witness.
Just because there's an overlap in monster association threat levels with HA levels doesn't mean they use the same system. In this case, them being different systems would actually be better for pushing your agenda of threat level scaling, since there's explicit confirmation that the hero association cares about aggressiveness and difficulty to exterminate (cough
I completely agree with monster association threat level scaling, but they specifically differentiate their system from the hero system, it's blatantly a case where AP is a factor in one, while AP+ a bunch of other shit is a factor in another, but you just think you can ******* ignore all of that and sweep it under the rug, pretend like the other factors that were BLATANTLY STATED, IN THE SCAN YOU LITERALLY GAVE ME don't exist somehow, and it's ******* bonkers.
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I'm sorry in advance, I have been quite rude in my delivery of these concepts to you
that being said, I still stand by every point made, including the fact that you're using blatant fallacies to try and argue with me, despite the fact that you should know better. Even if I decide to go do something better with my time I'm sure people would still be annoying about it and try and get in the last word and claim I'm running away from losing an argument as usual, like I don't have better things to do rn, so this is just a lose lose for me bruh
that being said, I still stand by every point made, including the fact that you're using blatant fallacies to try and argue with me, despite the fact that you should know better. Even if I decide to go do something better with my time I'm sure people would still be annoying about it and try and get in the last word and claim I'm running away from losing an argument as usual, like I don't have better things to do rn, so this is just a lose lose for me bruh
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Neither of which is shown as speed or intelligence.
Don't need to, it's literally stated by the MA that it's based on destructive power, and there's only a few Dragon levels in the entire series that either aren't from the MA, don't possess mainly offensive powers/defences that scale to their offensive powers anyway, or don't blatantly scale to the others already.
I have an example of Dragon levels' abilities being based on their destructive abilities, so I'm not even remotely reversing the burden of proof on you. Now give me an example where that is not the case.
I literally addressed that tons of times. Learn to read, thanks.
As for cherry picking, you've made a ******* orchard out of my points, so please shut up.
I haven't insulted you once until this post, and you're coming out with this shit. This is malicious.
What if Jim knew how to activate rocket launchers, while Jim with an IQ of 200 didn't?
I was explaining why your analogy has absolutely no bearing on the context of the series, so it doesn't matter what what meaning you had behind it. Also, the horde itself still has 8-C AP overall, so it's a non-argument at this point.
It increases their ability to cause destruction and property damage. Like holy ****, this is insanely simple to understand.
It doesn't make them harder to exterminate at all. They have the same durability, lost their intelligence for the most part and stay in one horde.
At this point, you're just being blatantly dishonest.
No. For me, it's like giving someone a paragraph that doesn't include what they say at all, and then they try to give the most non-sensical, roundabout explanation of why it actually supports their argument.
You said 'sure, 9-C zombieman'. That is the most indirect way of saying anything ever, so you can **** off with this nonsense.
So they scale. That's what I was saying.
Overlap is putting it lightly.
Above all else outright suggests there are other factors in play, and not just AP.
Given that most ratings we've seen in the series are simply based on things like size and destruction for estimates, the HA absolutely does this as well.
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I’ve decided you’re not smart enough to be worth arguing with anymore. That’s it, I’m not putting more energy into this bullshit starting now.
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You said 'sure, 9-C zombieman'. That is the most indirect way of saying anything ever, so you can **** off with this nonsense.
And also, particularly **** you for being an asshole just because I was agreeing with you in a casual manner, I said sure, and you keep trying to ******* act like I insulted you or something shit
this isn’t even related to the debate anymore, you’re just a dick
And also, particularly **** you for being an asshole just because I was agreeing with you in a casual manner, I said sure, and you keep trying to ******* act like I insulted you or something shit
this isn’t even related to the debate anymore, you’re just a dick
