Sword God vs Sword Saint (Sakaguchi Hinata (LN) vs Ikki Kurogane)

[GLHF22]

A skill that manipulates fate, is not fate itself. As i gave you the example above, that is literal. He breaks through fate and causality and became a desperado in that very scene. Intetsu being broken means the manifestation of his powers broke, he just receives backlash, he can still use it again, your example is "she steals it and he cannot use it anymore", which is totally different.

I gave you proof why it won't work cus his ability is literally his fate. You have to prove that Hinata can steal such a thing.

Then Hinata steals Ikki Intetsu, and makes him cannot manifested Intensu in fact Unique skill is the shape of the mind itself, its people desire one need desire to get Unique skill and steals unique skill doesnt makes them lost their mind after Hinata steals, you really want to say that a skill that manipulate fate isnt stronger than fate itself?

Thats completely false saying Hinata cannot steals Ikki Intetsu just because Intetsu is strength of his fate, a strong souls in slime can allowed them to crossing world can Ikki fate done so? A strong souls can makes them Resist power Null, power modification, and power absorption, can Ikki fate done so? A strong souls allowed someone to posses skill that manipulate fate, can Ikki fate manipulate others fate? Overall a strong souls is more impressive than a sword that reflect their fate

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Amane shinomiya can manipulate fate with his noble art. Yui tartare literally reflects fate on her opponents. Many people use it for conceptual manip. Nene uses her magic to pull all the 6 hidden dimensions and trap her opponents in what is effectively 10 dimensions, but like what does that have to do here. Strength is different from mechanics.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Don't exactly believe that counters what he said.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

He was bringing random stuff like a strong soul can give resistances and fate hax and all of that. Im just saying that yeah rakudai has the same but why do those matter?

Also countering the fate hax is stronger than fate idea otherwise amane would have fate that gives fate hax stronger than his fate. It has nothing to do with fate, it has to do with how weird the ability is.

Power null works just fine, power strealing is another issue doe

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Unique Skills are the shape of the mind, so you must have some desire to do what you want to accomplish. Shion's skill, Chef, is fate manip. So her mind has to have some tie and desire to change fate, and since she can, her mind and soul can too.

Hinata could still steal it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Desire to change fate is not your power coming from fate. It's just the same as medaka box or masada abilities. They still come from desire though, not fate

 

[Veldadesperado]

How in character is that?
Future prediction is not usually as good as Ikki's Analytical Prediction with Perfect Vision. Once he understands your identity (which usually takes like 1 or 2 clashes). His senses is another deal. He will sense any danger and know how to avoid it. In extreme cases it ends up with him seeing visions of how he'll die before doing something about it.

maybe you want to talk to Raphael who out-compute quantum Computer, Rimuru sense, skill, prediction, intelligence, and Vision is not your ordinary swordsman, she can see everything even just by stand here, your ability, your movement, everything is in Raphael hand even with that Hinata manage to keep up with Rimuru and fought him in equal ground, sense any danger is again not something special in slimeverse


i know its not her first move, but you know lol ursurper GG, Hinata steal intetsu END

On equal ground? What? Rimuru didn't use any of his unique skills offensively for the entire fight lol. Plus he has subconscious limiters and Volume 14 confirmed it. In all the fights until now rimuru never gone fullpower and volume 14 not only confirmed that, but implied he realized that too.

Hinata manipulates souls but she can't steal Unique Skills? Hmmm also she has a modified version of Usurper, which is Forced Usurp (vol. 7 said she used that on Ifreet), like Diablo modified his unique skill

 

[GLHF22]

Desire to change fate is not your power coming from fate. It's just the same as medaka box or masada abilities. They still come from desire though, not fate

Still don't know what makes you think Ikki fate is able to protect him from being Power absorb'ed, manipulate fate is not come from your fate its come from their ability, so pretty sure strengt of your fate isnt impressive at all.

 

[GLHF22]

@velda don't quote wall of text, Rimuru did use Beelzebub, and Uriel is proved ineffective against Hinata, thought i know Raphael toy both Rimuru and Hinata without Raphael Rimuru Will not be able to win that fight, i don't know what you trying to said here but Rimuru doesnt have unique skill at that battle he have Ultimate skill

 

[Veldadesperado]

@velda don't quote wall of text, Rimuru did use Beelzebub, and Uriel is proved ineffective against Hinata, thought i know Raphael toy both Rimuru and Hinata without Raphael Rimuru Will not be able to win that fight, i don't know what you trying to said here but Rimuru doesnt have unique skill at that battle he have Ultimate skill

True but not offensively. Only defensively. He just used the sword art. Blocked Usurper, countered mathematician and not going fullpower. Rimuru isn't reliable as a narrator you know

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

This is getting nowhere if you guys only argue Usurper stealing Ikki's ability. There's still tons of stuff between these 2 characters though just saying

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Well yeah pretty much.

@GLHF

You keep wording things in a way that makes me believe you didn't understand what im saying at all. But eh whatever vote whatever you want here.

Im gonna say Ikki due to rasetsu blitz. There is nothing Hinata can do against Ikki just going 500x on her and blitzing her thoughts.

 

[Veldadesperado]

Well yeah pretty much.

@GLHF

You keep wording things in a way that makes me believe you didn't understand what im saying at all. But eh whatever vote whatever you want here.

Im gonna say Ikki due to rasetsu blitz. There is nothing Hinata can do against Ikki just going 500x on her and blitzing her thoughts.

Wont blitz mathematician and ikki nowhere near able to blitz MFTL+

 

[Firephoenixearl]

1st key Hinata. Not MFTL+.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

This is getting nowhere if you guys only argue Usurper stealing Ikki's ability. There's still tons of stuff between these 2 characters though just saying

I've said all I have to. 4-0-0, Hinata still has other ways to take him down.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

>4-0-0

>I voted Ikki via blitz

Excuse me?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

4-1-0.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Just saying, but Hinata can turn her blade intagible at will. Not voting though.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Just saying, but Hinata can turn her blade intagible at will. Not voting though.

That doesn't stop the blitz or ikki from 1 shotting.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Oh right, Hinata got Holy Field which downgrades any magical enhancements significantly. Not sure how that influences the match though. Either way, I am just saying that. Not really that interested in this match.

 

[Veldadesperado]

1st key Hinata. Not MFTL+.

Still wont blitz mathematician

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Gonna unsub, tell me when the match is done.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Veldad

Elaborate. 1st key Hinata doesn't have any MFTL+ stuff on her profile so explain what mathematician is.

 

[Veldadesperado]

@Veldad

Elaborate. 1st key Hinata doesn't have any MFTL+ stuff on her profile so explain what mathematician is.

Mathematician is a unique skill that allows her to predict attacks, also she has magic sense that makes her perceive anything in the surrounding. Even if blinded

Mathematician is able to keep up with Rimuru thought acceleration, so yeah shes MFTL in precogn.. The page is wrong, cause she has the skill even in first key

Plus the magic negation barrier and any non holy magic is nulled (Rimuru healing magic didnt work on her for example)... LN hinata too broken for ikki with no desperado boost

 

[WHYNAUT]

Well not only is a CRT about MFTL+ Slime coming up in the future, first key Hinata never faced 6-C Rimuru and thus has no MFTL+ feats. Most of Ikki's stuff isn't magic, so her barrier really isn't that useful and she can't just said it up mid-battle either.

 

[Veldadesperado]

Well not only is a CRT about MFTL+ Slime coming up in the future, first key Hinata never faced 6-C Rimuru and thus has no MFTL+ feats. Most of Ikki's stuff isn't magic, so her barrier really isn't that useful and she can't just said it up mid-battle either.

Most of Rakudai uses magic power, none made a CRT just saying since the skill hasnt changed or evolved it's already MFTL+, Saints boost stats not skills per se. Ikki is a good swordman, but Hinata destroys skills wise. There's no much to talk here. Show scans of Ikki blitzing precognition since you want to bring up feats

 

[WHYNAUT]

You're getting something wrong. I'm not arguing for Ikki, I'm pointing out the errors in your argument. Is aid a CRT will be made, not that one has already been made. Nothing indicates Mathematician allows first key Hinata to keep up with MFTL+ anything. If you're going to ask for scans then first show them yourself.

 

[Veldadesperado]

You're getting something wrong. I'm not arguing for Ikki, I'm pointing out the errors in your argument. Is aid a CRT will be made, not that one has already been made. Nothing indicates Mathematician allows first key Hinata to keep up with MFTL+ anything. If you're going to ask for scans then first show them yourself.

Not really burden of proof is on you, cause no scan indicates Saints raised Mathematician level lol if you have scans supporting it then go ahead if not base skill is MFTL since it didnt change. I will quote Hinata saints "transformation" for you... You go next

 

[WHYNAUT]

That's not how it works. First of all, you made the claim, which puts the burden of proof on you, especially considering it's not on the profile. Hinata was boosted overall as a saint, so of course when she gets faster, so do her abilities.

 

[Veldadesperado]

She puts on the Gears of Holy Spirit—— These are the original pieces that theSpirit Armament worn by the Holy Knights was copied from. It is rumored to be once worn by a Chosen Hero, and a secret weapon of the Western Saints Church to battle against monsters. It is a gear specialized against monsters and dragons, only usable by those favoured by the Holy Spirit. A beam of bright light descends to surround Hinata and gradually forms the shape of a glowing armor. From that point onwards, Hinata has broken free of all forms of limits in her body to transcend Sage and truly reaching the realm of Saint.

Idek why she got the Saint and Sage key tbh:

Saints are a high rank species that human can evolve into through many years of rigorous training. People who reach this level are called Sage. Their lifespan is greatly lengthened and have the ability to transform into a semi-spiritual-lifeform. They would be rid of the shackles of the human flesh. And that's why people who reached the level of Sage are able to utilize enormous power. Their immense physical prowess and precision in magical usage has been strengthened far beyond what an average man could foresee, making them powerful beings, able to rival the Demon Lord Breed 43 . They are the guardians of mankind and are slowly evolving into the envoys of God.

 

[WHYNAUT]

And this disproves non of my points.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

>Hinata destroys skill wise

>Someone actually saying their character is more skilled than Ikki

Ok idc about this fight anymore. I'm just on this who's more skilled train.

Ok @Veld im listening to you give me some nice raw skill feats from Hinata.

 

[GLHF22]

Well yeah pretty much.
@GLHF

You keep wording things in a way that makes me believe you didn't understand what im saying at all. But eh whatever vote whatever you want here.

Im gonna say Ikki due to rasetsu blitz. There is nothing Hinata can do against Ikki just going 500x on her and blitzing her thoughts.

of course i dont understand because you are not making any sense, you cannot give a proof to me that Ikki Fate able to protect him from power absorption, while Hinata Usurper isnt weaker than ability that can manipulate fate, you talking about mechanics but in fact there is no statement about that mechanics makes Ikki fate able to protected him from power absorption, and so there is no NLF regarding that. Ikki 500x is via speed amp and his thought process isnt superior than Hinata if Ikki able to use intetsu and then use ittou rasetsu before Hinata see him, you can say he blitz her but the reality is Hinata see and steals before Ikki use ittou rasetsu

 

[Veldadesperado]

Exactly. You still gave no scans on how Ikki blitzes Hinata precogn. WHYNAUT read better since that scan debunks what you said. She trascended to Saint level via Holy Gears and not via skills. Skills aren't affected at all. Hinata destroys. Idk why this still going

 

[Veldadesperado]

>Hinata destroys skill wise

>Someone actually saying their character is more skilled than Ikki

Ok idc about this fight anymore. I'm just on this who's more skilled train.

Ok @Veld im listening to you give me some nice raw skill feats from Hinata.

She fought Veldora, completed Labyrinth, she can turn her blade intangible at will etc... Saint is reached through Holy Gears unless you have scan that prove otherwise. Fought Rimuru too

 

[WHYNAUT]

@Velda

So you're telling me that you need specific statements for any abilities that they get faster when their user gets faster?

There are no statements of dark flames becoming faster when he became a demon lord. Does that mean his dark flames are still reletavistic speed when he's MFTL+? Or does that mean they were already MFTL+ before he became a demon lord?

The answer is that they became faster when he became faster. The same goes for Hinata with Mathematician. Hinata became faster and because of that so did her abilities. You don't need seperate statements for every single ability in order to determine their speed.