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Team Fortress General Discussion

Don't know if I like scaling vaporizing weapons to the classes. Demoman is literally mentioned in one of the vaporizing weapon's blurb, alongside humans (and also Soldier). I'm unsure about Subsonic Speed and scaling to Heavy in LS.
The whole vaporizing weapons stuff has been brought up in past threads and rejected because it vaporizes the mercenaries. I still have issues with it being rejected because of that, since that argument is really only valid if it one-shots them, which isn't the case for any of the vaporizing weaponry. The mercenaries are only vaporized upon death, and there is no standard currently that dictates whether or not those types of feats can or cannot be used.

That being said, it probably leans towards the former, as I've seen similar feats being accepted for other verses, such as Pixel Gun 3D's weaponry vaporizing players only upon death, or the Cone of Cold in D&D, where the enemy is only frozen if they die from it. I'm aware that Whataboutism is bad practice, but the point I'm trying to make is that there is no standard that says we can't use such feats, when we have verses literally using them.

Going by the line of reasoning of "it doesn't scale to them because it does X to them", while ignoring the fact that it only happens if they die from it, none of the TF2 characters would scale to any of their explosive weaponry, since it's shown to Gib them upon death; despite them being able to tank said explosive weaponry while alive.

Many of the vaporizing weapons also wouldn't make sense at all. The Neon Annihilator straight up does less damage than Pyro's normal axe, and many of the crit-boosting effects of the weapons would be useless if they one-shot the mercenaries anyways.

The mercenaries are also capable of harming/killing beings that straight up don't get vaporized by their weaponry. Some of these beings include the Halloween Bosses (Merasmus, HHH, Monoculus, Giant Mercenaries, etc), Giant Robots, Engineer Buildings, and even Skeletons, including the baby ones. I can understand why the Mercenaries may not scale to the Halloween Bosses, and to a much lesser extent, Giant Robots. But when you have Lv 1 Engineer Buildings (weapons such as the Neon Annihilator and Manmelter don't do reduced damage), and literal baby skeletons be able to survive the vaporizing weaponry, to say that the mercenaries don't scale to the vaporizing weaponry would be the equivalent of saying that either of those two are far more powerful/durable than the mercenaries, which is just plain wrong.

Lastly, there is a kill icon specifically for dying from the suicide afterburn of the Cow Mangler 5000, which wouldn't be possible without them surviving the energy blast from the Cow Mangler.
 
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1. Wasnt that blue heavy? Who is canonically weaker than Red heavy?
The two teams are equal, considering that it's canonically a mix of both BLU and RED team members in the Robot War / TF Comics. BLU team losing in the majority of shorts is PIS. Also, if one side was blatantly stronger, the Gravel War wouldn't have been a stalemate.
2. He didnt exactly restrain him, all he did was jump on his back and try to choke him with his bat. Restraining implies at least holding back the arms, ideally physically preventing the other person from moving entirely, neither of which scout did
Heavy also tried to pull the bat away from Scout, but Scout was able to pull back, something that shouldn't be possible if Scout was dozens/hundreds of times weaker than Heavy. Scout was also able to escape from Heavy grabbing him. I put it as an "At most" rating to acknowledge that Scout downscales from Heavy.

BLU Heavy is the one that overpowered TFC Heavy anyhow.
 
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Well, there's at least evidence that non-vaporizing weapons are survivable outside of gameplay. Vaporizing weapons could be survivable due to balance reasons, as it is in fact a video game with actual developers (presumably, seriously where are they?).

Also, using the kill icon argument, this means that a fish, slappatron 1970 and primitive bow scales to futuristic other worldly vapor guns, because they can harm and kill the mercenaries, maybe even faster than the future guns.
Kill icons are just there to show what the class has been killed by and thus, there would be icons for Afterburn deaths. It's just there for gameplay reasons (it's also only visible to the players, it's not part of the actual "game world").

I'd rather go with the notion that vaporization guns insta-kill the mercenaries in canon, as there is actual evidence for that ("atomizing Soldiers at your earliest convenience" for a gun that fires once every year exaggeration) than the purely-gameplay argument you're suggesting. Maybe significant downscaling from the hallow bosses, but that's it really.
 
Carnival of Carnage came out in 2014
metal-gear-solid4-mgs4.gif
 
I'd rather go with the notion that vaporization guns insta-kill the mercenaries in canon
Actual, I may be able to proof this with the exact video you sent on your big reply, as it includes a end scene with a vaporizing weapon.

As we see there, the moment the Scout-bots (who should be equal to the non-robotic one) touch the shield, they are pretty much instantly dead (while the vaporization effect isn't the exact same as in-game, it might be due to SFM limitations, which is a softmare notorious for having problems).

In-game, the Medic shield deals damage overtime before vaporizing the bots, allowing even Scout-bots to survive for a few seconds.
Perhaps the Robot bosses may scale to this, as they are bosses meant to be hard to kill (in canon even).
 
I remember a tf2 post can’t seem to find it but someone cosplayed as engineer at an airport and had a cardboard sign that said something regarding welcoming immigrants and southern hospitality.

that’s very nice of him
 
Thanks for waiting. Anyways:

Well, there's at least evidence that non-vaporizing weapons are survivable outside of gameplay. Vaporizing weapons could be survivable due to balance reasons, as it is in fact a video game with actual developers (presumably, seriously where are they?).
Will address this together with the fourth comment.
Also, using the kill icon argument, this means that a fish, slappatron 1970 and primitive bow scales to futuristic other worldly vapor guns, because they can harm and kill the mercenaries, maybe even faster than the future guns.
Yes, that's how scaling works.
Kill icons are just there to show what the class has been killed by and thus, there would be icons for Afterburn deaths. It's just there for gameplay reasons (it's also only visible to the players, it's not part of the actual "game world").
The icon even existing shows that the people at Valve (or rather Janitor + Potted Plant) did not intend for the weapons to be some all-powerful weapons capable of killing anything in a single shot. Several of the supposed "insta-kill weapons" having abilities that grant guaranteed crits (Neon Annihilator, Phlogistinator, Manmelter, etc) shoots down that argument as well.
I'd rather go with the notion that vaporization guns insta-kill the mercenaries in canon, as there is actual evidence for that ("atomizing Soldiers at your earliest convenience" for a gun that fires once every year exaggeration) than the purely-gameplay argument you're suggesting. Maybe significant downscaling from the hallow bosses, but that's it really.
That description doesn't contradict how the weapon works.

It's not just Halloween Bosses that can survive it though. Even the weakest Giant Robots, such as the Giant Scouts can survive it. Hell, even Mini-Sentries, and baby skeletons are capable of surviving them.

There is also a recently-accepted calculation of Soldier's regular rockets being of similar power to that of the Vaporizing weaponry.
Actual, I may be able to proof this with the exact video you sent on your big reply, as it includes a end scene with a vaporizing weapon.

As we see there, the moment the Scout-bots (who should be equal to the non-robotic one) touch the shield, they are pretty much instantly dead (while the vaporization effect isn't the exact same as in-game, it might be due to SFM limitations, which is a softmare notorious for having problems)
In-game, the Medic shield deals damage overtime before vaporizing the bots, allowing even Scout-bots to survive for a few seconds.
Perhaps the Robot bosses may scale to this, as they are bosses meant to be hard to kill (in canon even).
The TF2 Mercenaries, more often than not, are often seen fodderizing the Robots, like the first MvM Trailer, or the 6th Comic, where Soldier and Zhanna killed so many Robots while naked that they literally buried Ms. Pauling with Robot Corpses.

The Projectile Shield could also just upscale from other vaporizing weaponry.
 
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Soldier Travel Speed

Interestingly, Soldiers travel speed in the calc is near identical to the HU scaling calc
Pretty sure it's because the primary feature of SFM is recording TF2 footage to be used in your animation, which i'm pretty sure is used for all generic bullet and projectiles used in the "Meet the Team" videos. Any minor difference in the speed value might just be a result of pixel scaling, camera angle and position.

So it's a previous feat that was rejected, but it happens to be in official animations due to it being simpler than animating a grenade or rocket manually.
 
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