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Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 15

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That would make Velgrynd High 4-C.

Yawnpress is so slow, how is the chinese translation so far ahead but the english so far behind, it's annoying.

It's the same situation with re zero.
 
So, Carrera would be scaled to 4-C and Velgrynd at 100% would be 50x stronger; if that is the case then the top tiers scaling from Velgrynd would easily be in the High 4-C tier
 
Celestial Pegasus said:
That would make Velgrynd High 4-C.

Yawnpress is so slow, how is the chinese translation so far ahead but the english so far behind, it's annoying.

It's the same situation with re zero.
Click to expand...
The official chinese translation for Slime is actually only on volume 13. Volumes 14 and 15 are fan translated.

I don't know much about the situation with Re:Zero but from the looks of it the official chinese translations are only at volume 11 so Yenpress isn't the only one that's really behind for Re:Zero. The fan translations stopped at volume 17 for unknown reasons. And from the looks of it the web novel version actually has less chapters translated than the English translations.
 
That seems plausible. If Yuuki somehow manages to overthrow Michael by somehow applying his anti-skill and gets him to recognise himself as the "user" of the skill, then perhaps Yuuki could create his own faction and turn the war into a three-way war, which would be quite interesting for once.

Then it would be Tenmashin War instead of Tenma War though.
 
It was beautiful.

I think it's not over yet. That was probably just the first salvo. Rimuru didn't gain Merciless yet. Though I am glad that this actually reached the attack everyone was waiting for and wasn't just yet another "set-up" chapter, though skipping the flashback scenes makes the Otherworlder trio look a bit shallow to be honest.

But the laz0r attack looked quite scary. No wonder the soldiers became frightened with terror. They skimmed over Rimuru using anti-magic area and the whole explanation about magic attacks normally being blockable by such an army, so there must be even more emphasis on the fact that the attack is already scary by itself.
 
Is it possible to have two types of AE at once? And if not, is it possible to have AE Type 1 and Immortality Type 8? Because that's what I believe Veldora should have, instead of Type 2 AE.
 
Milly Rocking Bandit said:
Is it possible to have two types of AE at once? And if not, is it possible to have AE Type 1 and Immortality Type 8? Because that's what I believe Veldora should have, instead of Type 2 AE.
Click to expand...
Assuming it is in the same key, Type 1 and 2 Abstract Existence at the same time can't be possible for a character. Why do you believe Abstract Existence Type 1 for Veldora, though?
 
We already established US's are concepts, and Veldora became one. So I don't see why he's AE Type 2, considering he is the concept. AE Type 2 relies on the concept to survive.
 
Wait, Veldora (Light Novel) doen't even have a profile yet. To be honest, I am neutral on it. I am thinking that thinking Ultimate Skills as Concepts in the LN could have been jumping the gun now because the statement when looking back doesn't look enough to me when using Occam's Razor.
 
Actually, i agree with Elizhaa, been thinking the same.

@Leader That's an exaggeration, LN only said the local area would be destroyed.

Btw slime manga is #10 top selling for the year while the LN is #1.
 
They are abstract, but being concepts is a stretch imo.

Formed from the users desires, shape of the mind itself etc etc, but it's not stated anywhere that ie all unique skills are concepts.

Raphael being a conceptual intelligence is vague, what does that even mean? And even if it's a concept, scaling that to all ultimate skills is iffy.

Unless i am missing something that is.

Anyway the manga was #9 last year so it dropped a little, while the LN is up.
 
I dunno. I'd say they are since they're powers are very much based on the concepts that their names represent like Usurper stealing powers from people or Raphael having all of knowledge or something to that effect.
 
That's because they are based on the users desires, Shion wanted to cook food for Rimuru, so she got the Chef skill, doesn't mean they are concepts.

When i am thinking of concepts, i am thinking of abstract things that shape all of reality, destroying Raphael for example wouldn't destroy all knowledge.

At the very least don't think they are type 3 concepts. Ultimate skills are devices which grant access to the ultimate principles of the world, but they are just that, devices, they themselves aren't those ultimate principles, just tools which give access to them.

What we need is hard evidence here not assumptions.
 
I agree on Celestial Pegasus' points. We will likely have a thread on the future on removing the conceptual stuffs from US being considered concepts now like Hinata's Conceptual manipulation and tweaking Rimuru's LN Demon slime's Regenerationn by removing the conceptual stuffs.
 
They were stated to be the ultimate principles of the world, a conceptual intelligence is something like what would conceptualize as something highly intelligent, Unique Skills are stated to be the shape of the mind and require a strong soul, etc.
 
They weren't stated to be the ultimate principles of the world, they are devices which grant access to the ultimate principles of the world:

——Clayman.
This fool tried to control Milim.

What an absolute joke, it's hard enough for one to even try to hide from laughing at it.

His goal is nothing but a lunatic's raving.

Mere Clayman couldn't possibly be able to achieve something even Guy can't do.

Those who possess ultimate skills cannot be affected by low level skills. In this world;s rule, only those who've obtained ÒÇîUnique SkillsÒÇìcould resist against the strong control of magic.

They should still be subjected to elemental attacks that could target their weakness. But speaking of that, there's no way mind control would ever work. Whoever's mind is so fragile that can be manipulated with such skill could never obtain ultimate skills. Ultimate skills, as they're called, are devices to grant access to the ultimate principles of this world. That is why, in order to combat against an ultimate skill, one must employ ultimate skill as well. That is simply how this world works.
~ Volume 6, Intermissio​
As i said above there is a difference, they are just tools which give access to the ultimate principles, they aren't those principles.
 
I agree, what i am pushing back on is them being concepts, not them giving access to concept manipulation.

Though it's maybe just law manipulation since a principle is "a comprehensive and fundamental law, doctrine, or assumption".

Though i have seen other definitions which are the same as concepts.

From what i posted above though, it seems like law manipulation.
 
By the way, Great Sage is also a conceptual intelligence. It got lost in translation due to the typical doubling meaningry from Kanji/Furigana.

And I'd like to point out that downgrading Ultimate Skills to just Law Manipulation would cause consistency issues now. Basically Holy Field and Shion's Cook would be equivalent to Ultimate Skills, or rather Cook would probably be stronger than Ultimate Skills based on our standards because it's not limited to just one "principle" in that case. See what the problem is?
 
US grant access to the ultimate principles of the world, chef doesn't do that.

Chef does manipulate the worlds laws but not the ultimate principles of the world, ultimate means greatest, highest etc, if it's law manipulation, US would be more potent obviously, there is no consistency issues.

Even if Chef can manipulate more, the ones US manipulate are the best, essentially quality>quantity.
 
But your entire reasoning is based on an unknown, unspecified "ultimate principle" and that the Skill is just some sort of metaphor for something else instead of it's own name.

So as far as I see aside from the word "principle" being possible to interpret like you did, there is nothing at all actually supporting it other than that, while there is more indicating that it's concept-based rather than law-based at the very least.
 
It's directly stated that US give access to the ultimate principles, what exactly these principles are we don't know yes, but by virtue of being ultimate they would be superior to anything unique skills can do, to suggest that if both abilities are law manipulation, that unique skills are equal to if not stronger than US is just blatantly false, when we know US are supposed to give access to the highest/greatest principles, even if we don't know what those principles are.
 
Yea, going by that, Lord of Wisdom Raphael gives access to the ultimate principle of Wisdom, Lord of Vow Uriel, gives access of the ultimate principle of Vows etc, this makes sense.

Looking at the definitions of concepts and principles, really not seeing what the difference is.

The only thing i was against was US themselves being concepts.

Law Manipulation does explicitly mention principles but so does Conceptual Manipulation. Law manipulation mentions logical principles so that would be like 1+1=2, which i don't think is the same as a ultimate principle of the world such as vows, gluttony, wisdom etc, concept manipulation probably fits instead.
 
So this is my personal view as I see it unrelated to whether or not it can be applied on this wiki:


Unique Skills are concepts born from its user. They can be very similar to actual universe-scale concepts that apply globably but they don't replace those, rather the user can just manipulate the skill within this microcosm of what the user can influence with his/her energy.

Basically it's a sort of mini-concepts that only applies to the extent the user has energy/magicules/nature energy/spirit particles but has to create the effects entirely from available energy. The universe-wide "similar concept" that already exists doesn't help the "skill concept" that only exists within its user's soul.

Since it's entirely dependent on the user's mind (based on spoilers and partial single-scene MTLs I have read) and its effects vary depending on how strong the user represents it, this might be in consideration as Concept Manipulation 4, perhaps.


Ultimate Skills on the other hand can do what Unique Skills do, but in addition can also influence the the "similar" concept that already exists in nature, however only as far as ones power reaches, though it's generally more energy efficient to use compared to the Unique Skill variation, e.g. higher range and output.

Due to this "access to an ultimate principle", I think this might be considered both Type 4 and Type 3 Conceptual Manipulation.


Again, that's just my "impression" of Unique and Ultimate Skills. It's not quite easy to convey something as abstract as that.
 
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