TenSura WN Major Revision - Part 14

[Astral_Trinity439]

Introduction​

Hello everyone, hope ya'll are doing good. This is the continuation to the previous threads, Part 14 to be exact. This thread, unlike the previous ones, would be the first part of WN cosmology upgrade thread (second part would be regarding 1-A and stuff, while this one would be lower than that).

As always, please refrain from any toxic behavior and unnecessarily derailing the thread.

Special Thanks to @Meli_Tempest , @CielTempest2 , and many others who are not a part of VSBW, for helping with and being a part of the project!

Table of Content​

The full proposal is explained here:

Astral Trinity439/WN Cosmology Upgrade (Part 1)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Additionally, some of the things mentioned in this sandbox (such as the higher time dimension) were indirectly already accepted in this thread via Greater Immortality type 1.

To conclude:
Cosmology Tiers:

• Other Worlds/Dimensions: Low 2-C
• Subspace: Low 1-C (5D)
• The World/World-Line (Hypertimeline): 1-C (6D)
• Time in which Rimuru travelled in: Likely 1-C (7D) or Solid 1-C (7D)

Characters that scale to 1-C (6D):

• Chloe's Time Travel: Capable of travelling in the World-line according to Yuuki
• Suspended World: Stops Time of the entire World, and can stop Chloe's Time Travel
• Yuuki Kagurazaka: for his Attack Potency and potentially Durability via Beelzebuth (Baseline)
• Guy Crimson: (Stated as comparable to Yuuki by Rimuru)
• Combined Attack against Yuuki: (Yuuki attained enough energy to destroy the World after absorbing it)
• Rimuru's Turn Null: (Scales to 'tens of thousands' of 1-C structures)
• Rimuru's Imaginary Space: (Scales to Infinite 1-C Constructs)
• Velgrynd's Space-Time Continuous Strike: (Scales to Imaginary Space as it can reach Veldora's body inside it)
• Rimuru's Beelzebuth: Possibly 1-C(Yuuki absorbed the World-destroying energy via it)
  • One may say it was "comparable to Mobius System which would only destroy a single Dimension", but note that Veldora stated it was "Similar in working", not "Equal in potency or Destructive Capacity".

Characters who scale to 1-C (7D):

• Rimuru's Range: Scales to 1-C via Time Travel

Votes​

Agree: Elizhaa, DarkDragonMedeus

Disagree:

Neutral:
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks for reading, folks!
Note that, this thread (unlike its previous parts) will have its agreed proposals applied immediately after it's accepted.

 

[Incomprehensibleexistence]

Agree

 

[CelestialVortex01]

no

 

[Lycoris4812]

W, agree.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

No (I didn't read anything, but I disagree, I don't like WN)

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

I agree, plus I was planning on making a thread about this soon.

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

no

What is the reason?

No (I didn't read anything, but I disagree, I don't like WN)

 

[Berga14]

Guy Crimson: Possibly Low 1-C (Stated as comparable to Yuuki by Rimuru)

Shouldn't this be "likely" ?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Shouldn't this be "likely" ?

Hmm, if Guy is being scaled to Yuuki with a "Likely" right now on his WN profile, then I suppose yeah.

No (I didn't read anything, but I disagree, I don't like WN)

no

https://cdn.**********.com/emojis/1095496448600195163.webp?size=96&quality=lossless

 

[Digital_Franz]

Agree. I think it's a solid 1-C since it's shown that there is a second perpendicular time axis via Rimuru's Time Travel.

 

[The_golden_and_silver_house94]

Agreed

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Agreed

 

[Tempestdragon6]

agree

 

[Meli_Tempest]

It's been months since I talked about the most basic notion of this with Astral, I'm glad it's finally happening, I'll take a look at it later.

 

[Curcuma_x_curcuma]

Can you explain how Yuki becomes Low 1-C? After looking at the blog, I only see Low 2-C for him.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Can you explain how Yuki becomes Low 1-C? After looking at the blog, I only see Low 2-C for him.

Clearly due to wank

Honestly, I think it's due to being much stronger than, Almost the entire verse, being able to create his own skills, and being superior to Milim, Guy, Vegrynd etc. Though I am not certain, been far to long since I read the WN. Though I don't scale the WN, and this is just a guess.

 

[Curcuma_x_curcuma]

Clearly due to wank

Honestly, I think it's due to being much stronger than, Almost the entire verse, being able to create his own skills, and being superior to Milim, Guy, Vegrynd etc. Though I am not certain, been far to long since I read the WN. Though I don't scale the WN, and this is just a guess.

But that still doesn't give him Low 1-C. According to the blog, Yuki destroyed the universe with the space-time continuum, which gives him Low 2-C. Where does Low 1-C appear here, I have no idea.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

But that still doesn't give him Low 1-C. According to the blog, Yuki destroyed the universe with the space-time continuum, which gives him Low 2-C. Where does Low 1-C appear here, I have no idea.

If this get accepted, the "spacetime Continuum" would have a Hypertimeline, meaning 2 temporal axis, and 3 spatial axis. That would mean destroying it would be a low 1C feat.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

It's clearly wank, but they will demand a counterargument from me.

 

[Curcuma_x_curcuma]

If this get accepted, the "spacetime Continuum" would have a Hypertimeline, meaning 2 temporal axis, and 3 spatial axis. That would mean destroying it would be a low 1C feat.

The world that Yuki destroyed is simply a universe with a space-time continuum. It has no hypertime. When Rimuru was sent to the "end of space-time", he returned back using hypertime. That is, the only one who scales to Low 1-C is Rimuru.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

This is because Astral considers that Yuuki had enough energy to destroy the world, i.e. he would destroy the world completely, i.e. the whole L1-C structure, but this seems inconsistent.

I'm not sure about all that, but I agree that the World structure is L1-C, in a way it is similar to LN.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

But that still doesn't give him Low 1-C. According to the blog, Yuki destroyed the universe with the space-time continuum, which gives him Low 2-C. Where does Low 1-C appear here, I have no idea.

It comes from the attack that could destroy the world from what I see.

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

My understanding is that if Guy is comparable to Yuki, then Chloe, Velzard and Velgrynd should also get in for Low 1-C, since they were comparable to Guy.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

My understanding is that if Guy is comparable to Yuki, then Chloe, Velzard and Velgrynd should also get in for Low 1-C, since they were comparable to Guy.

Idk if they are comparable to him anymore since the statement was from the after stories.

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

Idk if they are comparable to him anymore since the statement was from the after stories.

As long as there is no mention that it is superior to both, everything should be fine.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Can you explain how Yuki becomes Low 1-C? After looking at the blog, I only see Low 2-C for him.

He destroyed the world, that is, the Multiverse, and Rimuru found himself in the void resulting from the destruction of the world. Rimuru traveled back in time through the second time axis to the state of the Multiverse before he was banished.

 

[CodeCCLL]

All I can say for now is that scaling is literally bullshit. Besides the inconsistent points, Yuuki himself self does not physically scale to Beelzebub anyway, so Guy can only be compared to Yuuki physically.

Idk if they are comparable to him anymore since the statement was from the after stories.

My understanding is that if Guy is comparable to Yuki, then Chloe, Velzard and Velgrynd should also get in for Low 1-C, since they were comparable to Guy.

Chloe ~ Velzard ~ Guy Crimson < Milim Nava (Wrathful King Satan) ~ Guy Crimson (with copied Wrathful King Satan) ~ Velda < Yuuki (EoS) ~ Guy Crimson (EoS with Abyss God Nodens)

So no, no one is scaling.

 

[Robo432343]

disagree fra via code reasons

 

[Meli_Tempest]

disagree fra via code reasons

Code has only mentioned the scaling chain problem (which I agree with, scaling L1-C to Yuuki is inconsistent as I mentioned above), he has not spoken out on the L1-C itself, which is the point of the OP

 

[Digital_Franz]

All I can say for now is that scaling is literally bullshit. Besides the inconsistent points, Yuuki himself self does not physically scale to Beelzebub anyway, so Guy can only be compared to Yuuki physically.

Rimuru was sent into the void resulting in the destruction of the world. Yuuki destroyed the world after sending Rimuru into it. Of course, Yuuki doesn't physically scale to Beelzebub like the OP tried to show. Yuuki gained the power to destroy the world after absorbing the combined attack of Veldora, Velgrynd, Velzard, Guy and Diablo and this Yuuki was later compared to Guy by Rimuru which is why he is Possibly Low 1-C.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Yuuki gained the power to destroy the world after absorbing the combined attack of Veldora, Velgrynd, Velzard, Guy and Diablo

This combo attack is logically only 3-A+, even if we ignore the fact that even after absorbing this attack, Yuuki can only destroy a single Low 2-C structure because Beelzebub is run ammok, so this is extremely inconsistent.

The reason why Yuuki absorbed this attack is entirely Beelzebub, so such a rating is still bullshit.

Also, where exactly is it said that the reason Yuuki was able to destroy the universe was because he absorbed this combined attack, I don't remember like that.

 

[Digital_Franz]

This combo attack is logically only 3-A+, even if we ignore the fact that even after absorbing this attack, Yuuki can only destroy a single Low 2-C structure because Beelzebub is run ammok, so this is extremely inconsistent.

This is added to the power he already had accumulated. And yeah if Beelzebub is run ammok then it's just Low 2-C (possibly since we scale it to the Mobius system but it can be more powerful).

The reason why Yuuki absorbed this attack is entirely Beelzebub, so such a rating is still bullshit.

He absorbed it through Beelzebub yes but that doesn't mean he isn't more powerful. Beelzebub was his only absorption ability he had and he needed that power.

Also, where exactly is it said that the reason Yuuki was able to destroy the universe was because he absorbed this combined attack, I don't remember like that.

I believe (if I remember correctly) that before absorbing the attack it was said that he could not destroy the world.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

This combo attack is logically only 3-A+, even if we ignore the fact that even after absorbing this attack, Yuuki can only destroy a single Low 2-C structure because Beelzebub is run ammok, so this is extremely inconsistent.

the combo attack could destroy the world.. I don’t see how that is 3A. Yukki destroying the space time continuum isn’t a contridiction and already addressed in the sandbox .since after he did he literally died of old age. So he wouldn’t have enough time. The moment he experienced higher time he was gone,but that doesn’t change the fact that he has the power to destroy it.

The reason why Yuuki absorbed this attack is entirely Beelzebub, so such a rating is still bullshit.

Yeah would still get the rating regardless.

 

[Digital_Franz]

 Snip

"Beyond" Space and Time
To begin with, let's first know that Yuuki had essentially BFR-ed Rimuru to Beyond Space-Time, which according to Ciel is a point where Yuuki had retroactively destroyed the Universe (i.e., as a Space-Time Continuum), yet the "World" had not yet collapsed[1]. A point that is "beyond Time" itself[5].
This is the end of a single World.

The end of a single world, the end of a single timeline of the Multiverse.

 

[CodeCCLL]

I believe (if I remember correctly) that before absorbing the attack it was said that he could not destroy the world.

Scan?

the combo attack could destroy the world.. I don’t see how that is 3A.

Because it's inconsistent.

Zegion, Dino, Diablo, even Benimaru's Breakdown Nostalga only created an explosion bigger than the big bang (3-A+), and this explosion destroyed True Dragon Zero who was fused with Ramiris Labyrinth.

In fact, if we took the low ball for all statements, characters like Diablo, Benimaru, Dino, Zegion would only be 3-B+ after downscales from subdued Chloe and base Milim's 3x multipliers and Milim's Satan 10x multipliers.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Scan?

Because it's inconsistent.

Zegion, Dino, Diablo, even Benimaru's Breakdown Nostalga only created an explosion bigger than the big bang (3-A+), and this explosion destroyed True Dragon Zero who was fused with Ramiris Labyrinth.

Yeah this isn’t inconsistent. Go ahead and prove that bigger than the Big Bang entails that it is limited to around that size. “Faster than the speed of light” isn’t limited to the speed of light. Even more so when it is already shown that it is WAY more. The Big Bang is regarded as something huge. So there isn’t really anything else to compare it to. Yet that doesn’t mean you limit it when the amount of damage was already expanded on.

Fuse always says stuff like that. “Faster than the speed of sound” “stronger than diamonds “ doesn’t mean you limit it to that even after there are things that prove it is far higher

In fact, if we took the low ball for all statements, characters like Diablo, Benimaru, Dino, Zegion would only be 3-B+ after downscales from Chloe and base Milim's 3x multipliers and Milim's 10x multipliers.

I don’t even know what you are referring to.

 

[CodeCCLL]

• Rimuru's Turn Null: Low 1-C (Scales to Countless Low 1-C structures)

Also just tens of thousands where did countless come from?

 

[CodeCCLL]

Yeah this isn’t inconsistent. Go ahead and prove that bigger than the Big Bang entails that it is limited to around that size. “Faster than the speed of light” isn’t limited to the speed of light. Even more so when it is already shown that it is WAY more. The Big Bang is regarded as something huge. So there isn’t really anything else to compare it to. Yet that doesn’t mean you limit it when the amount of damage was already expanded on.

Fuse always says stuff like that. “Faster than the speed of sound” “stronger than diamonds “

I don’t even know what you are referring to.

What you say is not an argument that this is not inconsistent. There are many reasons why not everyone is at the speed of sound, and there is also a reason why not everyone is Tier 2.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

What you say is not an argument that this is not inconsistent. There are many reasons why not everyone is at the speed of sound, and there is also a reason why not everyone is Tier 2.

This reply is useless to what i said. It being stated to be stronger than the Big Bang doesn’t limit it to that destruction when it is also explained that it has enough energy to destroy the world. So it would scale regardless.limiting it just cause it was stated to be stronger than a 3-A attack is just dumb.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Can you explain how Yuki becomes Low 1-C? After looking at the blog, I only see Low 2-C for him.

Due to him being able to absorb the combined attack of everyone else [via beelzebuth]
While it's true that he couldn't destroy the universe, that was explicitly stated as due to his lifespan ending, not the energy exhausting or stuff like that.

This is because Astral considers that Yuuki had enough energy to destroy the world, i.e. he would destroy the world completely, i.e. the whole L1-C structure, but this seems inconsistent.

not really inconsistent per say, since it was clarified that him being unable to do so is due to his lifespan instead.

My understanding is that if Guy is comparable to Yuki, then Chloe, Velzard and Velgrynd should also get in for Low 1-C, since they were comparable to Guy.

We're talking about a statement from the Epilogue here[the last episode before the side stories]. I don't think we can consider that, knowing that Guy awakened Nodens and only got to use it in the battle against Yuuki at the end.

He destroyed the world, that is, the Multiverse, and Rimuru found himself in the void resulting from the destruction of the world. Rimuru traveled back in time through the second time axis to the state of the Multiverse before he was banished.

No. He only destroyed a single universe/space-time. His lifespan ended before he could do anything else. I clearly explained that in the blog as such:

Additionally, it was stated that Yuuki died because his Life Span was over (which is most likely because each instance of time in the Hypertimeline equaled Eternity in accordance to regular Time, making Yuuki not survive more than an instance in it), which not at all contradicts the fact that he still had "enough energy" to destroy the entire World.

By default, we're not gonna assume that his immortality type 1 is beyond normal, so this is a logical conclusion.

All I can say for now is that scaling is literally bullshit.

That isn't really an argument

Besides the inconsistent points, Yuuki himself self does not physically scale to Beelzebub anyway, so Guy can only be compared to Yuuki physically.

I never said he did, he would only get Low 1-C in AP via Beelzebuth. His speed and other stats would remain the same, unless someone wants to argue that Yuuki can use Beelzebuth as a defensive measure too.

Scan?

Seems I had linked the wrong scan before, but here

Additionally, it was stated that Yuuki died because his Life Span was over (which is most likely because each instance of time in the Hypertimeline equaled Eternity in accordance to regular Time, making Yuuki not survive more than an instance in it), which not at all contradicts the fact that he still had "enough energy" to destroy the entire World[1] that he gained from eating the others' attack via Beelzebuth[2]

Additionally, the fact that the statement is from Rimuru himself solidifies its consistency even more, given that Rimuru literally witnessed the end of the world himself.