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The long awaited Megabug and MegaDragonBowser upgrade to low 2-C

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@Ryukama
Which is directly debunked by it being part of the Rabbid's timeline, ergo not a separate continuity to everything or its own thing.

rabbids.ubisoft.com

Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope for Nintendo Switch | Ubisoft (EU / UK)

Official Site. In Mario + Rabbids® Sparks of Hope, team up with Mario, Rabbid Peach and their friends on a galactic journey to defeat Cursa and save the Sparks! Available On NINTENDO SWITCH™.
rabbids.ubisoft.com rabbids.ubisoft.com

Well, predicted that next move. Onto trying to get this called an outlier when we have a list of low 2-C feats to get them up to that tier too for future threads.

And yes, Blaze hit it on the head that the Mario referenced here made by Miyamoto is the same one in Rabbids.
 
If it's one-sided, I'd argue the opposite of what it sounds like Matt is arguing. About it being canon to Mario and not Rabbids. All the Rabbids are literally just cameos/references to Rabbids and just Rabbid versions of Mario characters. And it's the Nintendo staff that were the ones who advertised it as a Mario game where as Ubisoft mostly just helped develop the game. And Mario's main story format is canon to the crossover.

I agree with Matt and Ryukama that even canon crossovers are prone to outliers and such though, so I agree that it would just be Megabug getting the upgrade should be the focus.
 
And even then, why would this scale to any Rabbid? The ones you play as in Kingdom Battle are merged with stuff, turning them into separate variations. So these aren't even the same ones, I have no idea why you're scaling Rabbid Mario to an original Rabbid.
 
Those Rabbids are merged with mundane stuff like a wig, cellphone and sunglasses. Nothing suggests this massively amps their physical strength orders of magnitude beyond any normal Rabbid.

But even then, this is an outlier for Mario as well. Which I know is the true goal of this upgrade. To scale every Mario character to this crossover character.
 
Ryukama said:
Those Rabbids are merged with mundane stuff like a wig, cellphone and sunglasses. Nothing suggests this massively amps their physical strength orders of magnitude beyond any normal Rabbid.
Click to expand...
I beg to differ, because almost every enemy in this game is a Rabbid that's been merged with whatever object. And those bosses are displayed to being able to harm the main cast, so yes, they do massively amp you. That and the variety of weapons and new abilities also suggest this. There's also the fact that the playable Rabbids defeat other merged Rabbids, wouldn't make sense if they're all the same. Specific ones like Rabbid Kong even overpowered DK at one point.

Ryukama said:
But even then, this is an outlier for Mario as well. Which I know is the true goal of this upgrade. To scale every Mario character to this crossover character.
Click to expand...
Again, not the main point, we're focusing on the tier and canon, not the scaling itself. Drop it.
 
As they defuse they release energy that the SupaMerge granted them, so noice job revealing arguement from ignorance.
 
> Miyamoto says all Mario's are the same, statement was only a few months before the reveal of Kingdom Battle, so it would 100% be in development by now

> Ubisoft lists Kingdom Battle as part of the official timeline

Gentlemen...
 
Okay so this is the video I'm using to watch the game's cutscenes. It is longer than the video shared by Mephistus and includes more content. About 20-odd minutes more:



Okay so the game literally opens in the Rabbids universe with this young inventor girl sitting in a room talking about her new invention, the SupaMerge. Judging by all the posters and memorabilia on her wall and shelves, Mario is literally fiction in her world and she's a fan of the games. Already this makes it clear that this is a crossover leaning towards the Rabbids side and not the Mario side.

She explains that the SupaMerge can merge two objects together to create a third, new object, and also mentions its applications in Dark Matter and Space-Time Manipulation. Then a bunch of Rabbids show up in their Time Washing Machine, activate the machine, and by messing with it they are turned into Rabbid / Mario Character hybrid monstrosities because of all the Mario memorabilia in the room. Then the machine sends them to the Mario universe and they come crashing down there.

This is like, LITERALLY a classic case of "Immersion" at play. You see this all the time in crossovers where new OC characters will end up in a Game World or Cartoon World and hang out with the characters there. If you want to consider this canon you'll have to concede that all of Mario is literally fiction inside Rabbids.

Beep-0 then explains to Mario that the Rabbids have been corrupted by the SupaMerge headset and are spreading chaos and mayhem, and that the SupaMerge is now corrupting the world itself and so they need to stop it. Then, after Mario gets aid from Beep-0 and the Rabbids in form of an arm-cannon to fight the enemies (Which is kinda hilarious because Mario looked genuinely terrified by the shooting before he got a way to fight back, implying Mario is stronger than his usual self with the weapons in the game) we are introduced to the crack in the sky. Beep-0 explains that it started when the SupaMerge brought the Rabbids to the Mario World, and notes that when an enemy is defeated their energy floats upwards towards the Vortex. Obviously indicating that the SupaMerge's energy is the cause behind the vortex.

After doing some tasks and meeting up with Peach, Beep-0 refers to the Vortex in the sky as the "Megabug" for the first time. And later, after meeting with Luigi and after Bowser Jr. kidnaps "Spawny" (The Rabbid wearing the SupaMerge Headset), Beep-0 reinforces that the Mushroom Kingdom will be destroyed if he's not stopped.

Later, we get the whole issue with the Moon Gate that establishes that time is being distorted too. First it's established that it can't be opened except on the night of the full moon, then later they realize that by turning the Clock Tower backwards they'll bring the moon back into the sky, and this is explained as an example of "nonsensical Rabbidese logic" brought by their coming into the Mushroom Kingdom. So it's a part of the distortions brought by the SupaMerge's Megabug vortex.

Later, after defeating more minions and Bowser Jr. who piloted a mech, Megabug finally appears from the Vortex in the form of a giant bird, or a "Giant Energy Dragon" (Looks more like a phoenix to me) as Bowser Jr. puts it. Beep-0 explains that Megabug took on this form because it's been gaining power from the Corruption with each enemy that they defeated. When they arrive in Bowser's castle, they see that is has defeated Bowser and took over his body, becoming even stronger, transforming into "MegaDragonBowser". It is even called "The Ultimate Boss". And said boss fight amazingly involves Bowser being stunned by slamming into solid metal blocks as a key mechanic. Tier 2 blocks...

Anyway, after it is defeated, the Megabug disconnects from Bowser and then is shot down by the good guys. It starts glitching, then explodes, and Spawny is recovered, and the vortex stops.

My conclusion: The Vortex that is destroying the Mushroom Kingdom was going to destroy the entire "world" eventually, yes. But as it is made clear in the game this is not instantaneous. Rather, it is something that occurs over time the stronger the corruption becomes and the more energy the MegaBug receives. Never in the game there comes a point where it becomes clear that the MegaBug's Vortex is going to instantly corrupt and destroy the entire universe at once. Rather it is clear that it is something that gets progressively, exponentially worse the longer it's left in check. At first it is barely affecting the Mushroom Kingdom but as it goes on the corruption gets worse and worse. Eventually it would become so powerful the whole universe would collapse, yes. But I do not think this scales to the MegaBug you fight.

MegaBug's tier should be "Unknown Regularly, up to Low 2-C with the SupaMerge's Vortex".

That's my stance. And I'm not budging from it.
 
DatOneWeeb said:
> Ubisoft lists Kingdom Battle as part of the official timeline
Click to expand...
No they don't. There's no Mario Official timeline. All that happened is that it was shown in a list of Mario Games in a 35th Anniversary list. Unless you're talking about some other unspecified timeline not shown yet.
 
I didn't say that the merge makes no difference at all. And of course certain characters gain new abilities based on what they merged with. But what I'm saying is some of the rabbids who only scaled with the most mundane everyday items shouldn't suddenly become godlike entities compared to before. But either way sure these merged rabbids don't scale to regular rabbids. And this boss doesn't scale to the entire Mario cast, which even if that isn't going to get brought up in this thread will get brought up in another one.
 
Yeah no, regular Rabbids are in the game itself. And the merge only gives them gimmick abilities and new physical appearances. It has very little to do with physically amping.

And Ryukuma is 100% justified in worrying about scaling. Be mask off for a second, everybodyd knows you guys' goal is to scale all of Mario to Low 2-C.
 
DatOneWeeb said:
https://rabbids.ubisoft.com/portal/en-gb/rabbidsopedia/history.aspx
Click to expand...
So I was right lmao.

It is Canon to Rabbids and not Mario!

I was already almost 100% sure of this what with how the game starts, how there's references to past Rabbids game in the dialogue, etc. But you just made it easier for me.

I mean, the game is literally a direct sequel to this:

en.wikipedia.org

Raving Rabbids: Travel in Time - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

If you want to accept this as canon then you have to acknowledge that all of Mario is fiction in the Rabbids universe. Which I guess you'll be willing to do and then argue for Low 1-C Mario.
 
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Oh god. Do I even want to comment on how this is going right now.

Look: I think the Megabug tier is just fine. We can worry about scaling later when the inevitable CRT happens with all the stuff talked of in the Discussion Thread but this is not that thread.

Just focus on the topic of the thread itself and if Low 2-C is legit for the Megabug. I don't really have much to offer here but I don't want this derailing too much when y'all are losing sight of the main focus of the OP and trying to get personal. So far the arguments in favor are looking way more organised and well-constructed so either agree, try your damnest to fight it, or just be done with it.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
If you want to accept this as canon then you have to acknowledge that all of Mario is fiction in the Rabbids universe. Which I guess you'll be willing to do and then argue for Low 1-C Mario.
Click to expand...
We don't consider DBH to be Low 1-C or lower for the same reasons, what's your point?

Matthew_Schroeder said:
Is Super Smash Bros and the Mario Manga canon? Because this is literally what you're implying. "If it's made by Nintendo it's canon" pretty much.
Click to expand...
Nope. The difference between Smash and the Mario Manga is it messes up with the games' canon. Smash displays everyone is a toy and have crossovers all the time. Super Mario-kun is a retelling of the games in a Dr. Slump way. Mario + Rabbids is a completely new game.
 
DatOneWeeb said:
Nope. The difference between Smash and the Mario Manga is it messes up with the games' canon. Smash displays everyone is a toy and have crossovers all the time. Super Mario-kun is a retelling of the games in a Dr. Slump way. Mario + Rabbids is a completely new game.
Click to expand...
It also contradicts it! Literally in the opening cutscene. It is a direct sequel to a Rabbids game, starts in the Rabbids universe, and they go to the Mushroom Kingdom which is literally fiction to them because Rabbids takes place on Earth through a Machine and then have an adventure there.

It's about as canon as Captain N.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
It also contradicts it! Literally in the opening cutscene. It is a direct sequel to a Rabbids game, starts in the Rabbids universe, and they go to the Mushroom Kingdom which is literally fiction to them because Rabbids takes place on Earth through a Machine and then have an adventure there.
Click to expand...
Okay so where's the contradiction, prove it messes up past events.
 
DatOneWeeb said:
Okay so where's the contradiction, prove it messes up past events.
Click to expand...
I explained it. Mario is not a fictionalized universe created by Nintendo in-universe. It is it's own world.

Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle is a direct sequel to a previous Rabbids game where the Rabbids enter the Mario universe because a machine that manipulates space-time and combines things messes up with a room full of Mario posters, toys and games. It's literally Rabbid Isekai.
 
Manga is not canon, nor is Smash. the former is a different medium and the latter is a crossover with a different creator other than Miyamoto and those who run Mario. Also, the other spinoffs are still Nintendo Published games that do have connections through the main Mario series such as Super Mario Sunshine. The Educational games for DOS and Mario is Missing and Mario's Time Machine, those are also non-canon. But Mario Party, the sports games, and the RPGs all have more than enough connections to take place in the same multiverse as Super Mario Bros.

It very much as continuity and canon, just a very loose canon that makes it difficult to consider when and where. And is all over the place. Much like various episodes of various cartoons having an out of order continuity.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
I explained it. Mario is not a fictionalized universe created by Nintendo in-universe. It is it's own world.

Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle is a direct sequel to a previous Rabbids game where the Rabbids enter the Mario universe because a machine that manipulates space-time and combines things messes up with a room full of Mario posters, toys and games. It's literally Rabbid Isekai.
Click to expand...
Right, so you can't prove it. Why would this mean any and all past Mario games are invalid. I want proof, not your personal headcanon.
 
I'd also like to mention how the game and creators constantly state it's Mario's universe crossing over with the Rabbids.
 
DatOneWeeb said:
Right, so you can't prove it. Why would this mean any and all past Mario games are invalid. I want proof, not your personal headcanon.
Click to expand...
I explained it as clearly as you can. IF you can't see how a Rabbids game where the MArio universe is a fictional franchise then I can't help you. Your brain is wired to accept anything.
 
All discussions of canonicity or merged rabbids aside, my overall point was that I think even if the villain is Tier 2 that it's an outlier for Mario. If you have a group of (honestly rather dubious) 4-A feats and one Tier 2 feat, the Tier 2 is an outlier. We had Magolor as 3-A but denied Kirby scaling to it for years cause it was deemed an outlier in lieu of Kirby's 4-A feats. I brought that point up because the purpose of this upgrade is to eventually scale it to Mario, or at the very least it will get brought up in another thread so I wanted to put my thoughts on that matter for the record.

Anyways it seems like Matt has brought up some other points regarding the vortex. It might be best to address those as well.
 
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And also, as I explained in my detailed post above where I went over all the game's cutscenes, none of this scales to anyone. The SupaMerger's Vortex full scale doesn't scale to the physical MegaBug that Mario and friends fight. It's made abundantly clear throughout the game, many times, that the corruption the vortex is spreading is getting worse over time, with the vortex increasing and the distortions spreading to more distant lands. At the start of the game, literally only the Mushroom Kingdom, World-1, is being affect. Late int othe game Bowser's Kingdom is being affected along with other distant lands and also time. They say that if they don't stop the MegaBug, it will become too powerful and nobody will be strong enough to defeat it, and only then will it destroy the world.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
I explained it as clearly as you can. IF you can't see how a Rabbids game where the MArio universe is a fictional franchise then I can't help you. Your brain is wired to accept anything.
Click to expand...
I don't want your headcanon, burden of proof is on you.

Ryukama said:
All discussions of canonicity or merged rabbids aside, my overall point was that I think even if the villain is Tier 2 that it's an outlier for Mario. If you have a group (honestly rather dubious) 4-A feats and one Tier 2 feat, the Tier 2 is an outlier.
Click to expand...
For the last time, we are applying this to the Megabug and only him. Stop bringing up scaling, it's a massive derailment.
 
@Matthew_Schroeder

The first part of your argument stems from you not knowing what universes are, just like in the Wart thread. The real world and the world of Mario is as comparable as the latter being a grouped quite easily as a stated universe in the same line here as per simply reading the product description of the game. They are not 2-D in any respect here or fictitious given the normal interaction between the real world characters not treating the realm as flat or intangible to their dimensionality and that claim doesn't justify or lead into your claim that they aren't canon unto each other, so great job straw manning the prior resources showing Nintendo considers it being in their same timeline as the mainstream even. Seeing as how they are treated as going through an interdimensional tear, Mario's dimension simply exists in a wider cosmology of a multiverse before the SupaMerge did anything at all. There is no metafiction basis there to even derive besides your headcanon.

As for the second bit, the world in context is the universe as per the blatent twitter statement, interviews, and product descriptions equally treating them the same in terminology, and the showcase statement, the action of them being teleported there does quite instantly warp the space and time of the dimension, that is all up to the Megabug already doing that, we outright get it stated via Xavier Manzanares its "it made the world completely unstable and chaotic" not "only a sliver of the mushroom kingdom's land" like you are baselessly claiming, its "the world", so yes it was all warped just from the start with that being the instant timeframe one.

For the destruction "timeframe", context gives Beep-0 doesnt wait around to see the megabug get any stronger at present and states to "save their world" after he goes through the tear/vortex himself and says that they need to stop it to Mario right after and planned to get Spawny to do that, and treated it as very urgent. Complaining about over time for the outright destruction like with Wart's case even being considered as an argument on a Low 2-C tier feat isn't negotiable since its not dividable over time by stuff when you affect an entire space-time like joules/second here with energy, regardless, scaling a genuine level of power on that tier is exactly what it is and why it will be granted here, destroying or affecting a literal universe on that scale with those effects are valid. The vortex is quite literally its existence and disappears on its death. It throws around energy, ergo, it can utilize its power. And you will get zero concession from me on this. There's something in that mess there about tier 2 rock blocks, in which you want to make some claim he's wall level? ok.
 
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@DatOneWeeb You literally liked a comment from Mephistus that specifically said Megabug is not an outlier and that you guys are trying to make Mario Tier 2 in another thread. Please do not lie about your intentions and try to make my response to them seem crazy.

But okay I am dropping that point. Onto whether or not the vortex scales to the villain in the first place.
 
Who the hell cares about these guy’s intentions. If they can logically prove that the bug is tier 2, than whether or not they want Mario to be tier 2 has no basis on that. That is for a different thread and nobody cares.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
I already addressed why this doesn't scale to physicals anyway.
Click to expand...
Yeah, not like he literally blasts guys with energy and he literally is the vortex's source of energy. Which would scale to his foes physicality, which would then scale back again since he uses more than just energy blasts.
 
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