Ubel vs Boa 2: Now with more Kachon

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I did (and have been doing that for the past 10 minutes)

Someone just send me a link

Bud all you have to do is post on their wall

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Bud all you have to do is post on their wall

Blud I've been clicking the link on the verses profile...I literally can't get to the wall

I'm a potato ig

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Blud I've been clicking the link on the verses profile...I literally can't get to the wall

I'm a potato ig

Bro its literally the first thing you see when clicking on someones profle

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Bro its literally the first thing you see when clicking on someones profle

Yeah ik I'm saying the link isn't sending me there

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Yeah ik I'm saying the link isn't sending me there

You pinged All 4 of them in your message. Just click on the ping

 

[Delusionaltx2]

You pinged All 4 of them in your message. Just click on the ping

Isn't the message board for a verse supp- you know what nvm

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Ask the person who originally made a 5-C fight an 8-A. That's Deku's job.

Can we get Deku Vs Senior Pink

 

[Kachon123]

1 showing a scan where boa petrefies a bloodlusted individual with just looks alone

Until you can show a scan that implies even a little bit that bloodlust is a limit to her ability then this point will never be valid. She has sufficient feats.

2 mentioning a devil fruit that seals stuff the same way sorganeil does

Mont-d'Or.

3 explaining how ubel dura neg ignoring absolute truths wouldn't immediately suggest she would just ignore the difference in ap/durability between her and Hancock

Haki emission.

 

[Epiccheev]

say whaaaaattt...???

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The "For reasons above" doesn't have any weight here

All the reasons above basically ignore the counter arguments

If you think otherwise then please site a single instance of someone arguing for boa doing one of the following

1 showing a scan where boa petrefies a bloodlusted individual with just looks alone

The power to petrify a subject who has been attracted to a person with this ability. If the subject's mind is even slightly inclined toward the person who has activated the ability, the body will be petrified regardless of the subject's will.

The only way you counteract is by feeling an intense sense of pain and completely being distracted from anything relating to boa and her captivation, being bloodlusted against her ain't helping... Your legit targeting her, you can both be bloodlusted and be captivated by someone

An ability that captivates and petrifies people regardless of age or gender! It can materialize thrown kisses and even launch physical attacks!

2 mentioning a devil fruit that seals stuff the same way sorganeil does

Probably does exist with Law or Mont-d'Or and even then it can possibly be broken through via force based on it's wording being a powerful binding spell...

And then boa has obs haki, she at all times will know her every move beforehand and sense danger as well, just can secretly throw her heels beforehand and killing ubel, then there's the Salome problem as well, a huge snake being able to cover her or attack for her, either way haki should be able to deal with the effects

3 explaining how ubel dura neg ignoring absolute truths wouldn't immediately suggest she would just ignore the difference in ap/durability between her and Hancock

Haki, haki already transcends and are uneffected by devil fruits abilities that have the same effects (Gear 5, whip fruit and even arrow fruit as well... Actually for sorganeil this instance perfectly does both, affecting their movements and binding them as well at the same time)

So her "cutting" both won't work on haki and gets blocked by haki as well based on those already being abilities from devil fruits

 

[Kachon123]

there's the Salome problem as well

Building more on the Salome problem:

Sorganeil only works if every part of the target's body is visible.

With Spell of Binding: Sorganeil, she can completely halt the movements of any person in her line of sight and prevent them from accessing their mana for spells, under the condition that the target's entire body— including their hair— is within her vision

Salome quite literally covers and wraps around Hancock's entire lower body so Ubel would have to get rid of her before even thinking of using it.

 

[Epyriel]

Don’t know anything about One Piece, but since I was invited to take a look at this I feel I should clarify something.

2 things that should be mentioned.

First, mages in Frieren have power detection. Ubel herself is a First Class mage which makes her one of the best in the verse. She has access to power detection

She would be aware of Hancock's stats.

Why would an 8-A be able to visualize herself cutting a 5-C when she couldn't even visualize herself cutting through defensive spells because they're "supposed to block"

Second, magic in Frieren can be resisted using willpower

and can even break through magic

Ubel gets Haki diffed.

This is inaccurate. Ubel’s ability to cut someone explicitly ignores the fact that they are far more powerful even to Ubel’s own admission and understanding.

Sense was far superior to Ubel in terms of raw power, but ultimately her mana enhanced durability and her hair laden with defensive spells both appeared as mere flesh and hair to Ubel’s eyes. Even though Ubel understood intellectually and through her mana detection that Sense was rife with far more potent magic then she could hope to compete with conventionally, the fact that they looked like mere flesh and hair was enough for her to cut them.

Even if Ubel is faced with someone that she senses possesses the power of a god, as long as that god looks like a normal person, she can cut them.

 

[Kachon123]

Sense was far superior to Ubel in terms of raw power, but ultimately her mana enhanced durability and her hair laden with defensive spells both appeared as mere flesh and hair to Ubel’s eyes. Even though Ubel understood intellectually and through her mana detection that Sense was rife with far more potent magic then she could hope to compete with conventionally, the fact that they looked like mere flesh and hair was enough for her to cut them.

The problem with this is that Sense did not have conqueror's Haki. Even if in norma; circumstances Ubel would be able to cut Hancock (which I doubt for other reasons such as Buso), Hancock's aura would make it so that Ubel would be unable to imagine a scenario where doing such a thing is possible.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Until you can show a scan that implies even a little bit that bloodlust is a limit to her ability then this point will never be valid. She has sufficient feats.

I would but you showed it for me in Blackbeard's crew

I mentioned how in chapter 1059 they literally look at her and don't turn to stone. She hits them with a slave arrow and then they turn to stone

Mont-d'Or.

Elaborate

Haki emission.

Gets sealed before it does anything

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Don’t know anything about One Piece, but since I was invited to take a look at this I feel I should clarify something.


This is inaccurate. Ubel’s ability to cut someone explicitly ignores the fact that they are far more powerful even to Ubel’s own admission and understanding.

Sense was far superior to Ubel in terms of raw power, but ultimately her mana enhanced durability and her hair laden with defensive spells both appeared as mere flesh and hair to Ubel’s eyes. Even though Ubel understood intellectually and through her mana detection that Sense was rife with far more potent magic then she could hope to compete with conventionally, the fact that they looked like mere flesh and hair was enough for her to cut them.

Even if Ubel is faced with someone that she senses possesses the power of a god, as long as that god looks like a normal person, she can cut them.

If she feels dominated/overwhelmed through her will and spirit, then her cutting won't be able to cut tho, she will imagine her as a superior being forcefully

 

[Epyriel]

If she feels dominated/overwhelmed through her will and spirit, then her cutting won't be able to cut tho, she will imagine her as a superior being forcefully

I don’t think this is much of an impediment for Reelseiden as imaging your opponent as a superior being doesn’t really stop their flesh from looking like flesh.

Although I should note if I am missing something and Ubel actually has no way to cut her, than this is quite the stomp match since Ubel would have zero win cons, as even if Sorganeil works Ubel would need to go an entire day without blinking in order to gain a victory via incapacitation through SBA.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I don’t think this is much of an impediment for Reelseiden as imaging your opponent as a superior being doesn’t really stop their flesh from looking like flesh.

I mean it will tho, the ability overpowers your spirit... Your spirit is what makes you, you and your decisions, it literally will forcefully stop her from seeing boa's flesh as just flesh and imagine something more than her

• Power Nullification (Through her intuition, she was able to reduce powerful defensive spells to nothing because she held the mental image of "it can be cut")

Intuition = the ability to understand something instinctively, without the need for conscious reasoning.

her intuition forcefully gets dominated by con haki and changes her mental image of Boa as a whole

 

[Epyriel]

I mean it will tho, the ability overpowers your spirit... Your spirit is what makes you, you and your decisions, it literally will forcefully stop her from seeing boa's flesh as just flesh and imagine something more than her

This seems like a stretch to me, but I will leave it to those more familiar with the verse to judge.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

This seems like a stretch to me, but I will leave it to those more familiar with the verse to judge.

in what way is it a stretch tho?

Con haki emits from her whole body with the embodiment of one's kingly spirit that will overpower others

The innate "quality of a king" that overwhelms all living beings

This is the ability that few people have mastered among all the haki! It is possible to make surrounding people lose consciousness with the overpowering and deadly energy emitted from one's entire body. Since ancient times, many kings and rulers are said to have this ability.

The scans above already show luffy using it and them instinctively seeing him as superior to them and also listening to his command even if he's weaker physically

 

[Epyriel]

in what way is it a stretch tho?

Con haki emits from her whole body with the embodiment of one's kingly spirit that will overpower others

The scans above already show luffy using it and them instinctively seeing him as superior to them and also listening to his command even if he's weaker physically

Yeah but being intimidated or seeing as an opponent as superior means nothing as long as their flesh still looks like flesh.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Yeah but being intimidated or seeing as an opponent as superior means nothing as long as their flesh still looks like flesh.

you won't mentally imagine their flesh being just flesh... Since you are forcing their your mental image to change

Her instincts or intuition will be overwhelmed, causing her to not imagine "the mental image of "it can be cut""

 

[Delusionaltx2]

The only way you counteract is by feeling an intense sense of pain and completely being distracted from anything relating to boa and her captivation, being bloodlusted against her ain't helping... Your legit targeting her, you can both be bloodlusted and be captivated by someone

Being bloodlusted means wanting to kill said individual -> intent to kill overrides any and all possible feelings of affection -> no affection

Probably does exist with Law or Mont-d'Or

Law straight up doesn't even have conventional sealing and who even is the second guy???

and even then it can possibly be broken through via force based on it's wording being a powerful binding spell...

A power spell just implies it's a really useful and efficient one which makes sense because you can literally look at someone and it's ggs

And then boa has obs haki, she at all times will know her every move beforehand and sense danger as well, just can secretly throw her heels beforehand and killing ubel,

SBA assumes they start 10 - 100 meters apart and COC doesn't increase travel or combat speed even @Kachon123 admitted this which is why I said it was useless

then there's the Salome problem as well, a huge snake being able to cover her or attack for her,

A huge snake that gets skill stomped and dura negged (I pointed this out as well)

either way haki should be able to deal with the effects

Sorganeil seals abilities so it would seal boas ability to use haki

Haki, haki already transcends and are uneffected by devil fruits abilities that have the same effects (Gear 5, whip fruit and even arrow fruit as well...

Gear 5 doesn't just ignore casual relationships and logic to dura neg people and neither does the whip fruit

Actually for sorganeil this instance perfectly does both, affecting their movements and binding them as well at the same time)

So her "cutting" both won't work on haki and gets blocked by haki as well based on those already being abilities from devil fruits

Trapping someone in a bunch of vines is not the same as sealing movement and abilities

 

[Delusionaltx2]

The problem with this is that Sense did not have conqueror's Haki. Even if in norma; circumstances Ubel would be able to cut Hancock (which I doubt for other reasons such as Buso), Hancock's aura would make it so that Ubel would be unable to imagine a scenario where doing such a thing is possible.

Hancocks aura is also not passive and relies on haki which gets nulled

 

[Epyriel]

you won't mentally imagine their flesh being just flesh... Since you are forcing their your mental image to change

Changing the mental image of the person as superior, not their flesh as some different inately uncuttable material.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

If she feels dominated/overwhelmed through her will and spirit, then her cutting won't be able to cut tho, she will imagine her as a superior being forcefull

That's the funny thing because she won't. sorganeil would seal Hancock's ability to use haki

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

That's the funny thing because she won't. sorganeil would seal Hancock's ability to use haki

Explain how devil fruit abilities (Soul manipulation, Law manipulation, space manipulation, reality manipulation and more) can't effect haki but that will especially when there's an ability that literally does the same and more than sorganeil

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Building more on the Salome problem:

Sorganeil only works if every part of the target's body is visible.


Salome quite literally covers and wraps around Hancock's entire lower body so Ubel would have to get rid of her before even thinking of using it.

I've already explained this

Salome not only gets dura negged but to build on this she has no skill feats that suggests she won't get skill stomped so badly that ubel could just kill her with peripheral vision while focusing on hancock

Like at worse Hancock gets a moment of time and then gets sealed again immediately after because sorganeil is that overpowered

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Changing the mental image of the person as superior, not their flesh as some different inately uncuttable material.

stop trying to twist it... Her cutting is based on her intuition of it can be cut because she imagines so, there's no logical thinking

that changes through haki, her instinct and intuition would change into the opposite from the superiority, to her and her mental image

 

[Kachon123]

I've already explained this

Salome not only gets dura negged but to build on this she has no skill feats that suggests she won't get skill stomped so badly that ubel could just kill her with peripheral vision while focusing on hancock

Salome is coated in Haki and Hancock uses her as a weapon so you have to argue that Ubel would outskill Hancock, which she's not doing.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Salome is coated in Haki

Which gets negged because ubels dura neg is backed by law manip which haki doesn't resist

and Hancock uses her as a weapon so you have to argue that Ubel would outskill Hancock, which she's not doing.

Hancock in this situation can't move which is why she's supposedly ordering salome in this situation therefore you again have to prove Salome even has enough skill

 

[Kachon123]

Hancock in this situation can't move which is why she's supposedly ordering salome in this situation therefore you again have to prove Salome even has enough skill

The argument is that Ubel won't be able to use Sorganeil on Hancock in the first place because half of her body is obscured by Salome's.

Which gets negged because ubels dura neg is backed by law manip which haki doesn't resist

Not only is that very debatable, but Salome is coated is Haki Emission.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Explain how devil fruit abilities (Soul manipulation, Law manipulation, space manipulation, reality manipulation and more) can't effect haki but that will especially when there's an ability that literally does the same and more than sorganeil

First off what devil fruit ability has law manip that effects the target in a combat applicable manner??? Same with reality manipulation and that sorta thing

Second your argument for devil fruit abilities able to mimick sorganeil is a guy being able to trap people in vines...this isn't at all similar

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

First off what devil fruit ability has law manip that effects the target in a combat applicable manner??? Same with reality manipulation and that sorta thing

Second your argument for devil fruit abilities able to mimick sorganeil is a guy being able to trap people in vines...this isn't at all similar

did you just ignore every scan I linked?

The arrow fruit legit control and commands people's movements, to where the very future itself have to follow those commands no matter what

Read this again but carefully... Because everything I mentioned legit destroys nearly all of ubel's abilities

The only way you counteract is by feeling an intense sense of pain and completely being distracted from anything relating to boa and her captivation, being bloodlusted against her ain't helping... Your legit targeting her, you can both be bloodlusted and be captivated by someone

Probably does exist with Law or Mont-d'Or and even then it can possibly be broken through via force based on it's wording being a powerful binding spell...

And then boa has obs haki, she at all times will know her every move beforehand and sense danger as well, just can secretly throw her heels beforehand and killing ubel, then there's the Salome problem as well, a huge snake being able to cover her or attack for her, either way haki should be able to deal with the effects

Haki, haki already transcends and are uneffected by devil fruits abilities that have the same effects (Gear 5, whip fruit and even arrow fruit as well... Actually for sorganeil this instance perfectly does both, affecting their movements and binding them as well at the same time)

So her "cutting" both won't work on haki and gets blocked by haki as well based on those already being abilities from devil fruits

Sorganeil has two properties... Binding and halting ones movements both I already showed are devil fruit abilities that exist, here's another one

 

[Delusionaltx2]

The argument is that Ubel won't be able to use Sorganeil on Hancock in the first place because half of her body is obscured by Salome's.

No because it's as you said "Salome will be covering boas back and therefore won't be initially effected by sorganeil because sorganeil needs ubek to see the targets entire body!" Remember that argument?

Not only is that very debatable,

I'd love to see you while out skill feats for salome then suggests it's so much as touching ubel

but Salome is coated is Haki Emission.

Gets negged cause haki doesn't resist law based dura neg

 

[Kachon123]

No because it's as you said "Salome will be covering boas back and therefore won't be initially effected by sorganeil because sorganeil needs ubek to see the targets entire body!" Remember that argument?

Please follow the debate as its going on.

Building more on the Salome problem:

Sorganeil only works if every part of the target's body is visible.


Salome quite literally covers and wraps around Hancock's entire lower body so Ubel would have to get rid of her before even thinking of using it.

I'd love to see you while out skill feats for salome then suggests it's so much as touching ubel

Hancock, not Salome. I've already said this before I'm not sure what you're not understanding.

Gets negged cause haki doesn't resist law based dura neg

Ubel's "law based dura neg" is her ignoring what seems to makes sense to cut something that she logically shouldn't via acting through intuition rather than her mind. Explain to me how this allows her to cut a barrier of Haki.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Btw I'll vote for boa based on what I've said

 

[Epyriel]

stop trying to twist it... Her cutting is based on her intuition of it can be cut because she imagines so, there's no logical thinking

that changes through haki, her instinct and intuition would change into the opposite from the superiority, to her and her mental image

And her intuition of what it can cut is based on what she sees the material as, not who it is attached to.

She has cut opponents she fully internalizes as superior before, this is no different. This distinction is literally the entire point of the ability.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

And her intuition of what it can cut is based on what she sees the material as, not who it is attached to.

She has cut opponents she fully internalizes as superior before, this is no different. This distinction is literally the entire point of the ability.

superior logically, not instinctively which her cutting is based and depended on

 

[Kachon123]

And her intuition of what it can cut is based on what she sees the material as, not who it is attached to.

Right and subjective reality manipulation-based attacks like that get resisted and negated via Haki though Bonney's ability (can change the age and appearance of others based on any reality she imagines to be possible for them).

 

[Delusionaltx2]

did you just ignore every scan I linked?

Link a scan you used for devil fruit abilities with combat applicable law and reality manip

The arrow fruit legit control and commands people's movements, to where the very future itself have to follow those commands no matter what

We call this body puppetry next

Read this again but carefully... Because everything I mentioned legit destroys nearly all of ubel's abilities

No it isn't

- gear 5 isn't law manip

- whip fruit ain't law manip

- the rest don't have any showings of combat applicable law manip

Sorganeil has two properties... Binding and halting ones movements both I already showed are devil fruit abilities that exist, here's another one

Yes now how does it do that? It seals you completely it doesn't physically restrain you it seals you preventing you from doing anything MEANING you have to resist sealing to resist it's paralysis inducement

The guy (the extra from big moms crew) while yes is a good form of sealing the sealing is physical. Sorganeil doesn't just effect physical things it directly targets energy systems like mana which physical sealng does not do.