We may need a standard portable infobox for our profile pages

[Antvasima]

Meaning two levels of tabbers.

 

[The_Impress]

A fuckup I've come across, many profiles tend to use specific quotes to accompany with each image, this was easily done in tabbers, but is there a way for that to be carried over to infoboxes? Or do we have to get rid of that entirely? It'll be a big loss, aesthetics wise if I'm honest.

 

[Damage3245]

Pages should probably just have a single Quote at the top if they have an infobox.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Infoboxes in general seem like a big loss aesthetics wise, I wish this change didn't have to be implemented, I really like the current setup

 

[The_Impress]

Well for starters, many characters exist who are too vast to be condensed into a single quote, case in point, characters like the Hulk, and this would just lead to a poor showcase of their personalities nonetheless.

Alongside that, I personally don't know what was wrong with tabbers in the first place considering Google wouldn't know of the mobile compatibility of individual wikis nonetheless. This is just a hassle which is only applicable to certain pages while hampering the rest and making our own pages to uneven and poorly thought out. Not to mention I don't think it looks that much pleasing either, and hampers admittedly trivial things such as the quotes and occupation categorization, but in my opinion these things are about as valid as infoboxes anyhow

And regarding mobile friendliness, it's debatable to say the least that we'd want to allow folks who wouldn't even bother using desktop mode on their phones, and not to mention the infoboxes seem like a bitch coding wise to say the least

 

[NoGround]

Quotes are another thing entirely. It's not as important as Infoboxes, but using quotes as a header is advised against, which is also entirely different from even losing quotes-per-image. Keeping in mind the main goal of the infobox changes is to increase portability in order to maintain high SEO, another issue are Tab Navigation elements.

Tabbers don't even show up on mobile pages. I'm still trying to work through this issue myself, since I use tab templates on quite a few of my wikis. As an example, if you look at Monkey D. Luffy (Post-Timeskip) on mobile, you will not have access to Monkey D. Luffy (Pre-Timeskip) directly from his page.

 

[The_Impress]

Quotes are approximately as important as infoboxes, both are trivial things meant to give the user a slight idea of what the character is about.

Portability on a versus debate site? Because of course folks open up these things in the middle of the road to argue for 2 hours. Portability is irrelevant to our site anyhow, this is a hobby, not a reference, since the latter is important for quick access, while the former you have to give hours into. Our focus should be visual appeal and accuracy rather than portability.

Also they show up on mobile mode just fine for me, I don't exactly have a clue as to what you're saying on that.

 

[NoGround]

@Zark the entire thread is made in order to discuss portability and SEO. Please read the OP.

Huh, interesting that they do show up for me on mobile, in a not-too-bad format. Nevermind, must be the template I'm using for my other wikis that is causing the issue, then.

 

[The_Impress]

And I'm arguing that's not relevant to wiki at all, and if it implies we have to get rid of certain things to accommodate them, they're poor changes to apply

 

[NoGround]

I highly disagree, and again, the whole point of this thread is to reformat the pages to fix SEO so that this wiki has higher search results than other, smaller, battle wikis, which is the current issue. VS Battles Wiki is losing traffic to smaller wikis because of this lack of portability. It's an objective fact that it is relevant, since the potential loss in activity is obvious, especially when user traffic will be split between the wiki and the forum in the near future.

The goal is reformat the profile pages to account for SEO while losing nothing. Instead of saying "no, we can't do this because we lose this one tiny feature," you ca try and figure out how to implement that feature with the new changes, such as a Quotes section on the infobox or on the page.

 

[NoGround]

Google wouldn't know of the mobile compatibility of individual wikis nonetheless.

Google scrapes a ton of different data.

1. They do scrape for mobile and deduct massive points for not having appropriate mobile format.

2. They do scrape for "hidden" content, so tabbers hiding information is also another deduction. I think you are greatly underestimating Google and proper SEO.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Zark about that the loss of different quotes for different images would significantly diminish the quality of our profile pages, and would greatly appreciate if somebody is able to write a better infobox base format for us in this regard.

 

[Damage3245]

Adding quotes to the infobox won't make it any better. It's fine just to have a separate quotes section on the page, or in the gallery.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we recurrently do need different quotes for different incarnations of a character.

 

[NoGround]

I would recommend the gallery section having focus on the quotes. You can have them as captions, as well. There are several different ways to implement gallerys, such as a slider, that could be interesting.

Particularily, the Slideshow feature could be an interesting way to implement this, since you could put it at the top of the page without taking up too much space like a full gallery.

Either that, or you could force the gallery images to fit within a small space using CSS, such as 3 or 4 a line, and have the quotes below.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks. Can you show some examples of how to apply these options and what they would look like?

 

[NoGround]

Sure, there is potential for it on Kumoko, so I will make a Kumoko/draft of that page with different sections for you to see some examples.

 

[The_Impress]

I refute that tabbers have anything to do with the mobile experience anyhow, infoboxes take approximately twice as much space and are harder to implement in comparison to tabbers.

The "gallery for quotes" idea legitimately sounds like gutting aesthetics for both the desktop and mobile views.

 

[NoGround]

I refute that tabbers have anything to do with the mobile experience anyhow.

They have to do with "hidden content" which is just one of many SEO aspects. Look, you can refuse to believe whatever, it doesn't change how SEO works. There are many different factors, and as a Staff of Fandom, I'm just trying to help with the education I've received from training and school.

 

[The_Impress]

Hidden content isn't that relevant in play in my opinion, a few microseconds of extra scrolling isn't killing anyone, and I doubt whether it'll be made better with the infoboxes which take approximately as much time.

I acknowledge that you're trying to help, but I think you refuse to accept any complications which may arise to facilitate what I consider a poor addition to the standard format of the files, considering in the pages I've used them in, they cramp up the Powers and Abilities section which is already quite cramped with links, gets rid of image specific quotes which are crucial in summarizing personalities of these versions and just look pretty, and get rid of other things like expanded classifications, which while minor, are still things that are somewhat important, and I think losing them for a change which I consider frivolous is a negative on my end.

This is sacrificing our desktop mode quality, which is used by most of our current users anyhow, with a mobile version which is nonetheless poor considering our wiki isn't optimized in the slightest for this crowd nonetheless we add infoboxes or not

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't think there's anything wrong with beautifying some profiles over time. I think slideshows seem a bit unneeded for most profiles (believe I've seen them being used for notable attacks section to display some of said notable attacks), but it doesn't really sacrifice quality.

Basically: infoboxes are fine, I think the other stuff is a bit vestigial and probably shouldn't be default.

 

[The_Impress]

Bambu just because your verses barely use tabbers doesn't mean others don't

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Bambu just because your verses barely use tabbers doesn't mean others don't

Mordenkaine

I do think the suggestion is gaudy and kinda pointless but if people really wanted to have it as optional, I wouldn't really care

 

[The_Impress]

Well from my experience in comics stuff with a bajillion links required and quotes for almost every render, it severely wrecks that.

 

[Overlord775]

we could just add a Quotes Section to profiles, like it was previusly proposed

 

[The_Impress]

Do you know how ugly and bulky that'll be? Much rather get rid of quotes altogether in that scenario

 

[NoGround]

Zark, I'm not refusing complications. I'm pointing out where SEO will be lacking due to certain features and offering suggestions to fix them, as well correcting misunderstandings about technical details regarding SEO. I'm also offering suggestions and providing examples on possible alternatives. In the end, this didn't start nor will it end with my suggestions, that is up to the admin team here on VS Battles Wiki

 

[The_Impress]

I acknowledge that completely, and understand. I may sound slightly confrontational but legitimately I am not pointing fingers or blaming anyone here, just stating my points and problems with the suggestions, as someone who has worked on pages this'll affect negatively, and countering any arguments you may bring, typical debating ethic.

I apologize if you think I was attacking you specifically at any point, it is clearly not my intent in the slightest.

 

[NoGround]

Aw, no worries. I just want to make sure I'm not misunderstood! I see that we're on the same page, though, and don't take offense to anything. I do try my best to remain as professional as possible since I do represent Fandom in some capacity, even though I'm just here as a regular user.

Even this issue (the portability issue with Google and user traffic) is something I've known about for a while, now, since it's one of my specialties. I also have access to the Analytics of user traffic, and you'd be surprised about the data, though that's not for me to share. Antvasima did say that half of the users visiting are from mobile, though, but the forums are exclusively pc.

Tbh if the new forum supports a mobile functionality, you could see a massive spike in user activity.

 

[The_Impress]

Well a factor to note is that despite being a mobile user, I still never access the wiki in the default mobile view, rather the desktop mode, and from my enquiries no other user tends to use them either.

And even despite that I assure you it wouldn't be a pleasurable experience regardless, almost all verse page galleries aren't optimized for mobile, making navigation next to impossible, and the lack of access to forums defeats their points anyhow. Add to that we use tabbers for more thing than pictures as seen with the pages for Spider-Man, Doctor Doom and such, I legitimately think infoboxes are a triviality in light of these other issues, so unless one comes up with a solution to fix them first, I don't think it is worth it to replace infoboxes as of now, unless these more pressing issues are adressed first.

 

[NoGround]

Ya, the main issue is very simple: infoboxes tell Google that the page has portability, bumping up the SEO points. It's less about needing to support mobile users so much as telling Google that things are good.

The results of this conversation are to lead into infobox usage and how to lower the amount of friction when transitioning. In the end, aesthetics are an opinion, which is why (almost) all of my suggestions have refrained from how to implement aesthetic choices and focus solely on the technical and coding information.

 

[The_Impress]

Can we implement it without an image field? Then we can have images separately as tabbers while the infobox contains names and age and such.

This'll be the best of both worlds IMO

 

[NoGround]

That is something I did think about very recently. Infoboxes ca still be used without images, so images that aren't appropriate for infoboxes, such as what was mentioned early (landscape orientation) wouldn't cause issues. This is just my opinion, but portrait aligned images are fine for infoboxes.

To do this, you can still have the image field in the infobox, but just ignore it, instead placing the image outside of the infobox.

 

[The_Impress]

Yes so I think the image field and the classification field should be reverted back to where they were, and should be removed altogether from the infobox for consistency's sake, since the image specific quotes are still important.

This'll ensure nothing is lost (except the P&A cramping but oh well) and we'd still get those sweet, sweet Google trust points for our pages. I think this is a fine compromise I'd find most agreeing with

 

[Damage3245]

@Zark2099; no, I absolutely don't agree with removing images altogether from the infoboxes.

 

[The_Impress]

It would be an inconsistent mess considering the landscape images will not use it nonethless along with any quoted-images. This is a matter for setting a standard, Damage, and I don't think putting the images in boxes will do that.

 

[NoGround]

Personally, I'm of the opposite opinion, use of image tabs in the infobox is would look better with consistency, and the only loss would be the (optional) character quotes. This is, emphasized, an opinion. In the end, it's up to the admin team to finalize a decision, and I will support whatever the final conclusion is.

E: Kumoko/draft Usage of different gallery techniques. Please check source code for comments.

 

[Damage3245]

@Zark2099; this doesn't affect all quoted images, just the profiles that have multiple images with separate quotes for each.

The majority of profiles would benefit from keeping the profile image inside the infobox. The only exceptions needs to be the ones where this would not work well.

 

[Zaratthustra]

Quotes are important since they show how the character think, giving a glimpse of their personality. Quotes may enchance the character, they impact the reader by making them interesed on them. It makes them more realistic. It may show their flaws and failing or adds the detail that helps to make them more relatable.

I'm against deleting the quotes.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

to be absolutely clear I do see Zark's point and I am against requiring this- profiles don't look bad now, and often the ones that are the subject of Zark's defense are the most well-kept and looked after profiles. there isn't a need to take on this change.