Stefano4444
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Whole Cake Island Scaling Revision
- Thread starter Stefano4444
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What needs to be done
Stefano4444
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Maybe more like this is better instead
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Please remove Katakuri's base from being Country Level
Stefano4444
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Why? He already upscale to his siblings Smoothie and Cracker, the latter was capable to damage Early Whole Cake Boundman and somewhat tag him.
You can argue that Boundman was still stronger than Cracker, however its performance should still at least put him at baseline 6-B or around Dressrosa Zoro's 6-B.
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How... What else does he scale to then?
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He can scale to
A. Red Hawk
B. Snakeman
C. Oven
D. Ichiji
E. Carrot
F. Above the non-commanders
Katakuri in base does not scale above Cracker whatsoever
Base Cracker sliced into a healthy Boundman's arm casually and pressured him for hours. Base Katakuri got sent flying through pillars from him and required large mochi constructs to counter him.
Max Katakuri > Base Cracker (since Cracker w/ his sword is already him at his peak). But Base Katakuri does not scale above Cracker whatsoever.
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Then... Like this?
Basically base Katakuri > Oven > Chalotte Amande > Gear 3 (Pre Power Mochi clash)
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Never mind; I misread what you were saying.
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This looks good to an extent, but Snakeman has no reason to scale above Gear 3rd.
And Amande scales above regular g3rd, not haki g3rd, so that needs to be rectified
To be completely honest, Base Kata has no scaling outside of Oven and Luffy. I doubt it's wise to scale him to values like Gear 3rd when he took damage from Gear 2nd Luffy. His strongest base feat outside of Snakeman was matching a Red Hawk
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... The strength/attack power is still going to be the same... Amande scales above gear 3rd when luffy was weaker
This luffy (Which scaled to Large Island Lvl) and not this luffy
Gear 4 snakeman would downscale from boundman, showing similar strikes to what boundman did while only having used his arm for weight/force... especially also since katakuri would've grown in stats as well at the end of the fight
When did he take damage from gear 2nd? Matching red hawk was way in the past where katakuri wasn't even putting any effort in as well... Like come on
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Bro what? That Luffy has Haki. She scales to Perospero who blocked a no Haki hit.
Snakeman matched casual hits. Boundman punched him through like 3 pillars and made him spit up blood
Gear 4 snakeman would downscale from boundman, showing similar strikes to what boundman did while only having used his arm for weight/force... especially also since katakuri would've grown in stats as well at the end of the fight
The frame right before he went bounceman he kicked him in his face
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Bro, you are acting like luffy adding haki would tremendously boost his force...
It doesn't matter anyway since Oven's dura > Cracker's dura
... Let's not act like boundman flying full force at him and Snakeman using only python is the same
The only time where snakeman goes in full force, Katakuri dodges it instead of trying to block... His python hits were still capable of sending him flying and doing damage without utilizing the full weight of snakeman
My guy is using the weaker katakuri who was hit completely off guarded... (It was base luffy as well) Tempest, using that scan as evidence is complete bs and you already know it
Pls... Instead of trying to nitpick, give some solutions... Because it feels like you're only trying to nitpick based of off feelings atp
Katakuri got stronger at the end of the fight... Especially since luffy himself got strong enough for him to be able to get stronger
this is katakuri after everything that happened with boundman
This is where luffy has gotten much stronger and the start where katakuri would have to begin to get stronger as well
After this they fight for over 2 HOURS and then snakeman is used
You're comparisons and scaling are totally unfair
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Cracker is a glass cannon.
Nothing you are saying matters. Bounceman prior to "getting stronger" is far superior to any showing of Snakeman afterwards.... Let's not act like boundman flying full force at him and Snakeman using only python is the same
The only time where snakeman goes in full force, Katakuri dodges it instead of trying to block... His python hits were still capable of sending him flying and doing damage without utilizing the full weight of snakeman
My guy is using the weaker katakuri who was hit completely off guarded... (It was base luffy as well) Tempest, using that scan as evidence is complete bs and you already know it
Pls... Instead of trying to nitpick, give some solutions... Because it feels like you're only trying to nitpick based of off feelings atp
Katakuri got stronger at the end of the fight... Especially since luffy himself got strong enough for him to be able to get stronger
this is katakuri after everything that happened with boundman
This is where luffy has gotten much stronger and the start where katakuri would have to begin to get stronger as well
After this they fight for over 2 HOURS and then snakeman is used
Katakuri getting stronger is unwarranted. Nothing you said proves he got stronger at all
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yee sure... I don't care, I'm gonna unfollow from this thread
Someone else can try to do the scaling
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If yall have the same Katakuri who was bleeding from kicks from Gear 2nd Luffy scaling comfortably above Bounceman who scales damn near 8 times stronger then I will gladly take over the scaling.
Talm bout Oven scales above Cracker as if Cracker isn't known for being a glass cannon. Is Capone Bege, Sanji, Ichiji, and everyone who scales now stronger than Gear 4th Luffy? Tf are we talking about.
Talm bout Oven scales above Cracker as if Cracker isn't known for being a glass cannon. Is Capone Bege, Sanji, Ichiji, and everyone who scales now stronger than Gear 4th Luffy? Tf are we talking about.
Stefano4444
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Its he? At best based on his statement of hating feeling pain It can be imply that he is hypersensible of pain which only give him bad endurance, but it wouldn't affect his durability.
His durability should still fully scale to his AP, especially when his best feat are from his Armamenti Haki and not his Devil Fruit, and Armamenti Haki offense scale to its defense.
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Cracker's best feat is from his armament haki + his sword. His sword is a Meito blade, and that strong sword + Armament Haki > his durability.
The Biscuit Soldiers have the exact same armament haki and Luffy punched through them.
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I honestly agree with KT's arguments here here for the Base Katakuri stuff
Stefano4444
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A major factor of Cracker pressure him was due of his Devil Fruit, not necessarely just his physical stats.
As Cracker could make as many Biscuit Soldiers as he wish to distract and occupy Boundman, not giving him the chance to fully go on the offensive on him unlike with Doflamingo while also make him harder for Luffy to react/block Cracker own offensive.
Sure those Biscuit Soldiers were inferior to Boundman, but still Luffy had to deal with each of them separately and he even need assistance from Nami to rain and weaken their durabilities so that even in Base he could eat them.
After that Luffy decide to chance strategy and go with Tankman, so that the moment Cracker hit him he could use his body to trap him, making him unable to move as he end up tanking Tankman's full power.
What about Durability? Does Katakuri keep it at 6-B? He still survive a barrage of attacks from Boundman and evenly clash with Snakeman.
Or that also going to be downgraded.
Stefano4444
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Considering that happen because he was far too distracted to properly guard himself, i don't think its a fair comparation. Especially we had many other instances where much stronger characters got seriously harm by weaker ones because they couldn't defending themselves properly (like Garp saving Koby or Whitebeard getting stap by Squard).
And sure Katakuri was getting overpowered by Boundman but he was still more than durable enough to quickly recover in middle of the clash (unlike Doffy who was briefly knocked out) to then reactive his FS and dominate the fight again, as well as still be able to took survive multiple attacks from Snakeman before fully fall down, and like i say there isn't much good evidence that prove Snakeman's offensive power its that far lower than Boundman, let alone be even subpar to Gear 3rd.
Based on everything i see, i frankly find pretty absurd to have Base Katakuri not even breaching baseline 6-B as feats/scaling wise he shouldn't that physically weaker than someone like Dressrosa Zoro or Awakening Doffy could be able to oneshot him.
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This is not the same thing in the slightest Stefano.
People like that blatantly couldn't even put a guard up and they were caught off guard.
Katakuri watched him power up, put a guard up, and got knocked to Antarctica.
This might even be the funniest overpowering session I've seen whole time.
Luffy didn't come here and say "Yes I needed to catch you off guard", he said "That strong ass Haki you got can't stand against Gear Four"
He blatantly said "Your Mochi is trash. It's your Observation that is cracked".
AKA
"You're not this guy (the strong unbeatable goon) because of your Mochi abilities and its strength, you're this guy because of your Observation Haki"
"As long as I can use my Haki, I'm invincible"
And after getting punched on in that caliber, he said "Now I see why Cracker got bodied"
That is called stamina and recovery.
Luffy punched past his guard and made him spit up blood. First few hits he took made him vomit blood. That is INSANE.
There is literally no way he can scale to that. Especially when those were literally the first punches he took all day and they did THAT to him.
This is the exact same way Luffy got stabbed with his trident and rolled around for a tiny bit then jumped right up.
If you need to find a way to scale Base Katakuri to them without making it powercliff Bounceman, the transformation that WHOOPED HIS ASS, I'm all ears.
I'm not worried about the value, I'm worried about the scaling.
Stefano4444
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- #144
You know i no longer interested, i'm not going to continue discuss this and just focus on the sandbox and make the changes.
But at this point neither Cracker and Smoothie will scale to Boundman, as you even admit that Cracker's Armament Haki is only equal to his Biscuit Soldiers.
So no one in the Big Mom Pirates (beside Big Mom) had any meaningful scale to Boundman in AP or Dura.
But at this point neither Cracker and Smoothie will scale to Boundman, as you even admit that Cracker's Armament Haki is only equal to his Biscuit Soldiers.
So no one in the Big Mom Pirates (beside Big Mom) had any meaningful scale to Boundman in AP or Dura.
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This is not what I'm saying at all
Armament haki is not a joule measurement. It is an amp. Having the same armament Haki applied to multiple places doesn't mean that the separate places have equal values on attack power.
Zoro putting Armament Haki on a stick vs on Shusui will produce 2 completely different results.
Cracker putting Armament Haki on a fake Pretzel did nothing except get the sword broken. Cracker putting Armament Haki on a real Pretzel cut through Luffy's arm.
The databook even says it for Cracker that it's a legitimate feat.
Cracker's sword scales because the sword + armament haki > boundman dura. The sword by itself, no. The haki by itself, no.
Same was Luffy with the same haki on a base punch and an elephant gun will produce 2 completely different results.
You cannot say "it's all just armament haki" to scale dura to it when cracker's body ≠ cracker's sword. Cracker's sword with armament can have the same dura value as his sword's ap. Cracker's body can't have that same rating.
Eminiteable
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Didn't he cut g4's cheek with it or was that anime only?
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He did but he cut a part of G4th's cheek that had no haki on it
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Stefano4444
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You just conferm what i say, by this scaling Cracker's regular AP/Dura would then just be High 6-C while only with his sword + haki he breach 6-B.
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Then nobody would scale to his sword then
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Is this referring to base Luffy beyond WCI still being inferior to Katakuri, or post WCI pre-act 2 Wano?
If it’s the first one… Luffy was fighting somewhat relative with Kaido in base, and Kaido himself comments that Luffy is vastly stronger than how he was during their initial fight. Katakuri is not ever tagging Kaido, not like how base Luffy during act 3 did. In fact, Katakuri vs Kaido would go exactly how Luffy vs Kaido in their first fight went; Kaido would one shot him.
If it’s the latter, I can see your point, but it’s not a complete stomp even if Luffy is in base. Luffy was shown to be capable of tagging Katakuri while in base. Though, WCI base Luffy < Katakuri should be a fairly common take.
If it’s the first one… Luffy was fighting somewhat relative with Kaido in base, and Kaido himself comments that Luffy is vastly stronger than how he was during their initial fight. Katakuri is not ever tagging Kaido, not like how base Luffy during act 3 did. In fact, Katakuri vs Kaido would go exactly how Luffy vs Kaido in their first fight went; Kaido would one shot him.
If it’s the latter, I can see your point, but it’s not a complete stomp even if Luffy is in base. Luffy was shown to be capable of tagging Katakuri while in base. Though, WCI base Luffy < Katakuri should be a fairly common take.
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…?
Stefano4444
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It's the latter.
Luffy had rely on his Future Sight to trully react to Katakuri and even that Katakuri was clearly demostrating to have a decisive upper hand.
With Luffy always the one who got hit over and over, while Katakuri only got hit once and even that he didn't see to have been that injuried from that strike.
While any other serious damage he got was either from the previous pounding that Boundman was giving him or Katakuri himself injury himself.
Also then Katakuri could still match Snakeman Luffy, in that form Luffy would be at his faster while also make him at the very least stronger than in his Gear 2nd.
So no based on his performance, even after unlocking FS, Base Luffy should not scale to Base Katakuri.
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So what are the conclusions so far, to replace the ratings with?
Stefano4444
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Base Luffy after Whole Cake Island (his Post Udon too) will be downgraded to At least Island level+, unfortunately the Sweet Commanders will be affected as well.
As both Cracker and Katakuri now lack any justification for their regular AP/Dura to even downscale to that value, with Cracker breaching 6-B only with his Sword and Katakuri with Awakening.
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The fact that Katakuri only took ~13 hits over the duration of the fight and still endured that much pain shows that he at the very least has worse durability.
Overall, Katakuri would win against base Luffy. Though saying it’s a large enough gap in strength to say Luffy outright wouldn’t scale to Katakuri is kind of wild to me.
How would post-Udon be downgraded? Post-Udon Luffy violates Katakuri. Hell, even Wano Sanji & Zoro both violate Katakuri. I don’t see how base Luffy would only be island lvl if he could take hits from Kaido, with the only moment that caused him to lose being because he was offguarded…
Stefano4444
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I wouldn't say Katakuri has bad Durabilility compare to Luffy, he still survive multiple attacks from Boundman as well as fully counter a Pre FS Gear 3rd attack with his own without getting harm in the process.
The actual difference its that Luffy has far better Stamina/Endurance which allow him to take far more damage than Katakuri and continue fighting.
Unless you want to imply that Snakeman as a strength multiplier its not even comparable (if not inferior) to Gear 2nd, Katakuri should still outscale Base Luffy by a big margin.
That 6-B seen based on the scaling from the previous Key, if Post WCI Base Luffy scaling change then **** affect Post Udon Base Luffy too.
That its his Durability, it doesn't necessarely mean his AP scale as high.
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Post-Udon Luffy scales far above post-WCI base Luffy, to the point where it’s a speed blitz + one shot difference in strength.
Post WCI gear 4 Luffy got speedblitzed and one tapped by Kaido, while a post-Udon base Luffy is able to perceive and react to Kaido’s attacks. Luffy can also harm Kaido. He’s also able to haki-clash with Kaido. A gear 4 post-Udon Luffy is able to evenly match Kaido.
Saying even post WCI gear 4 Luffy is comparable to Post-Udon Luffy doesn’t make much sense to me, if in base, post-Udon Luffy is able to outperform WCI gear 4 Luffy significantly.
As for Katakuri significantly gapping base Luffy in WCI, base Luffy at the very least has the durability to withstand Katakuri’s attacks, even in base, so his durability shouldn’t change.
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Stefano4444
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Problem that the profile at moment doesn't have Post Udon Base Luffy upscaling to his previous Gear 4th self.
Post Udon Base Luffy only go up to Country level when, if we go with what you suggesting, he should be Large Country level instead.
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Then that would be the case, as I firmly believe that Post Udon Base Luffy significantly upscales from Post WCI Gear 4 Luffy.
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This thread is about WCI. Post Udon is irrelevant to this thread
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