Fallen_Angelicx
He/Him- 3,008
- 567
I don't understand this point. Goku has a 2-C feat from a supposedly finite multiplier. Aka Super Sayian God
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"Skipping isn't Stopping" Hit Time skip revision
- Thread starter Omegabronic
- Start date
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The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
- 1,510
Super Saiyan God is an unknown multiplier.
Kaioken x10 is a x10 multiplier.
1/10th of Immeasurable is still immeasurable.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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Minor Resistance to Time Manipulation.
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This seems like the best option to me.
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I'm not opposed to that either
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- Thread starter
- #206
I still feel like this would be weird given that Time Travel is not something that can be resisted....but ok ig
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This is mainly why I consider it as just Analytical Prediction, since Hit's not really actively manipulating time on Goku, rather he's just skipping ahead in time and Goku is catching it
Like I said, I'm not opposed to a minor resistance to Time Manip, but I feel that just listing it as Analytical Prediction like we are now is more accurate
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That's also fine with me.
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How about you stop being a toxic piece of shit for two seconds and argue like a normal person.
I'm clearly referring to the 2nd fight between them when goku straight up says time skip won't work anymore, and by the way goku is getting fatigued every second he's in kaioken, so you can argue he wasn't even at his strongest by the time hit improved again, which is why jiren is shown doing the same thing, moving while hit is time skipping, and it not working no matter what, which aligns with goku also doing it in the u6 arc, and time skip just being ineffective the next fight. We LITERALLY see goku's body twitching and shit before they exchange again.
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It's a non-canon series. End of story.
If it was a matter of SPEED, he shouldn't be affected period. Get that through your head, being suppressed wouldn't change that.
No. If you have a finite speed, you can't get to an immeasurable value via a finite multiplier, because your previous value was measurable. That's not an imaginary rules, that's elementary school math.
"There is plenty of-", shut up. Time abilities don't work on characters with immeasurable speed unless said abilities have some "higher dimensional" aspect. I'm not banging my head on a brick wall of denialism.
You're trying to argue Goku is immeasurable by moving through a time ability, yet I can't use the fact he was affected by the same ability as counter evidence, to make matters worse, the reasoning why it worked was because it got "longer time to skip" which contradicts the very foundation of extra-temporal speed.
This is such bull, you're arguing Goku could move freely through time, yet are arguing that him being affected and being a prisoner of time isn't a valid counterargument because "UHH, OTHER SERIES DO THAT". I don't CARE.
If anything they should lose their immeasurable ratings too, but no, because these series have MOUNTAINS OF EVIDENCE of Immeasurable speed and a reasonable explanation as to why time abilities work on these characters. Hit doesn't, so he doesn't get the same treatment. That's the end of the ******* discussion. I will not address any arguments citing other series under different contexts as valid points anymore.
THE FACT THE SAME LITTLE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ALWAYS TRYING TO UPGRADE DB IS UPVOTING THIS IS HILARIOUS. This is will you all will NEVER have the power to decide anything without staff approval.
I don't give a damn. You are all wrong. The fact even people who agree with me aren't supporting me in any way is irrelevant.
Are you pretending this shit didn't happen? Aight.
12:20 ^
After the SUPPOSED Immeasurable Speed feat, IT JUST STRAIGHT UP WORKS BECAUSE HIT HAS LONGER TIME TO SKIP. "B..B..But I thought Goku had immeasurable speed with X10 Kaioken Blue".
This isn't a matter of speed. It's a matter of power. Jiren demonstrated this later.
It's debunked.
It's refuted.
Anything else you might say is nothing but an attempt to distort the situation.
Tell me when, quote the exact phrase where I said Time Skip worked on Jiren?
If you can't, then stop replying to a strawman, ffs.
I said TIME CAGE worked on Jiren, who used power to overcome the ability. If you're not bound by time, and has Immeasurable speed, it wouldn't work period.
Like, hell, do words even have any meaning nowadays?
I believe there's a misunderstanding here, I am pretty sure he's referring to post U6 arc Goku, who was immune to timeskip
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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Because it's a matter of power, not speed.
So it's a matter of power, not speed. "When fatigued, Goku's immeasurable speed becomes... M-MEASURABLE"
listen to yourself.
It don't matter. The fact it worked because of a time boost refutes the idea that Goku has immeasurable speed. It proves it's a power-based resistance.
Jiren is evidence that it's about power.
(Cue The Rock song)
The fact it doesn't work later on proves Goku is too strong for it. It's not a confirmation of immeasurable speed, because it also doesn't solve for the several contradictions I've cited.
"Well, there is this contradiction where it worked. But later it doesn't so....!!!", nah. You're caught.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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And Post U6 Arc Goku would be immeasurable because????
I've used later and earlier examples that it's a power-based resistance. Goku being immune to timeskip isn't evidence for speed, it's a hax resistance.
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Analytical Perception doesn’t make much sense if your reaction speed doesn’t scale to the ability. Goku would still need to be able to react to Hits ability with actual stats in some capacity. No amount of “precognition” or “intuition” can really stop a Blitz if we’re saying that he doesn’t scale to the feat even in the sense of it being an outlier.
For example you can have the ability to see into the future but you can’t stop a guy who is about to kick you at light speed if your actual stats are lacking.
For example you can have the ability to see into the future but you can’t stop a guy who is about to kick you at light speed if your actual stats are lacking.
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Personally, I think we should combine options 4 and 5. Time Skip works both as a time stop or just a skip. We see that very clearly. And we also see moments where Goku is entirely frozen in time (Time Stop) or is instead reacting within that time from Hit’s attacks (Time Skip). If Time Skip overall just doesn’t work, it means Goku necessarily must have gained resistance to the Time Stop portion of the power, but the variation in which Goku is able to react (catching Hit Skipping), must also be further Analytical Prediction to achieve what we see occur if we’re not considering Hit’s ability to Skip the equivalent of Time Traveling. Basically, because the power does both Stop and Skip, I think Goku should get both the Resistance from the Stop and the (Enhanced?) Analytical Prediction from the Skip.
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Worse case scenario this would be Infinite speed if we think Goku is reacting the literal moment time skip is over. Or immeasurable if you think he’s traveling through time in any capacity whatsoever. Even if it’s just an “outlier”
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Again, that makes no goddamn sense because time skip isn't something that is DIRECTLY used on the opponent, he's skipping time in general and targets what he wants, you don't just power out of it or some shit, that sounds stupid, listen to YOURSELF. It doesn't work the same as time cage.
Wrong, its still based on movement speed, because he's MOVING fast enough to intercept hit while he's time skipping into the literal future. Not when hit is hitting him or something.
Jiren was able to break out of the time cage, which was a power thing, but that comment was not made about time skip being power based. The fact that it doesn't work later on proves its just not effective on goku anymore because no matter how far ahead he goes, goku will still catch him or he can just move freely like jiren did, so there was no point in even improving it. "Nah, you're caught". You're unbelievably stupid.
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- Thread starter
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no as Time Skip doesn't Time Stop at all, the only moment Goku seem frozen is in the final clash, and even then it could be a similar situation of earlier on where Goku was also seeminly "Frozen" but still fully reacted and moved with the blows dealt to him, i see that as nothing more as Hit improving with his AD to the point where Goku can't react to his attacks
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I believe the argument in their case is, being able to counter someone who keeps going forward in time.
That's the issue here, there's nothing to resist, timeskip is hit himself going forward in time to attack, Goku isn't resisting anything because there's nothing affecting him, unlike time cage,
Basically,basically it was analytical prediction vs time skip duration until the final flash
Goku AD> 0.1 secs
Hit 0.2, then 0.5 secs > Goku's AP
Kkx10 boosted AP> 0.5 secs
Hit evolves again to counter Goku's attack after the Kamehameha
Hit then evolves again and time freezes Goku
Then in their rematch, timeskip doesn't work anymore
Assuming immeasurable speed isn't viable then the abilities needed to resist would be;
Analytical Prediction (for initial timeskip) upscaled with KK
Resistance to time stop
Minor time manipulation (being able to attack him before his timeskip is completed)
Killerdrone123
He/Him- 2,051
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It is the same dbs what do you mean end of story
Also what do you mean by that he literally proceeds to call it trash and gap it through
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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Half of the things in Dragon Ball "sounds stupid" and it still works regardless. I already proved it's power-based in the Anime, just like in the Manga. In the Manga it works the exact same way, and the weakness is power-based as well.
Also, this would only imply that anyone with Goku's level of power would be able to move as well, which could be true.
"It sounds stupid", isn't a valid argument. Next.
Eh, no. Jiren is proof that you can move through time abilities just by being powerful enough to transcend time. This ignores the contradiction of this thing working after Goku achieved this feat.
You're just moving through the ability because you're strong enough to do so. Again, if it's speed, Time Skip should've stopped working IMMEDIATELY and PERMANENTLY after Goku reached Kaioken x10. That's not true, therefore it's not speed. That's just logic, you can't argue with that.
And no, a fatigued Goku isn't "less immeasurable", that's not a thing. 1/10th of KKx10SSB Goku shouldn't be measurable either, but I guess you don't want to address as well.
Oh, so NOW surpassing time itself is a power thing, but with time skip it isn't. Cool.
Once I've proved Time Skip relies on the target's power to work, the fact it doesn't work later is entirely irrelevant.
You've addressed zero of the counterclaims I've made, I don't think you have the capacity of calling out the less fortunate in intelligence. No need to be angy.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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Nierre.
You're being biased.
I'm not the one dissing out curses at my opponents. I've expressed frustration at WORST.
^ This is borderline reportable. And you kudo'd that. I highly recommend you to keep quiet on the matter if you're just going to dap up even worse offenders.
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Yeah i kudos'd that. I'm not denying it, and I'd do it 100 more times if i could. Because you tweaked the **** out. The only reason he said that was because of your dismissive and very combative response in the last page.
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I think the same of those options, I remember an official site mentioned that time skip allow Hit to travel/jump into the future, so I'm not sure if goku being able to intercept Hit is a resistance to time manipulation.
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- Thread starter
- #225
not time stop, Vados explicitly says that it doesn't do that
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I'm fine with 2 or 4
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False. When Hit went and killed that Mob boss, he explicitly says he froze time on everyone but said Mob Boss and then killed him (which we see. All his henchmen are frozen in time during the conversation). Time Skip both freezes AND skips time. At least within the Anime.
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No, it is, the dimension that creates hit is over time that has jumped and stolen from the universe.
dimension is a different skill from time skip and time stop
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- #229
no since that WASN'T the Time Skip, that was clarified in the OP:
Also think for a moment, what sense would it make for Hit to use the Time Skip for Time Stop.......just for Vados to say that the Time Skip doesn't do that at all in the same arc?
if you think it was the Time Skip being used there, prove it, because the very same arc we got that scene from is going against that by saying that the Time Skip doesn't stop time
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Honestly I think the “minor” part of the ability should be removed.
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That-No? All it means is it can do both, and that Time Skip is the overall ability name. Even when Hit is storing time, or Time Cage, it’s still under the root Time Skip ability. Given Hit says the power in general wouldn’t be effective, and has to rely on his own version of Kamui, Illusions, etc. you can then conclude that Goku resists both variations anyway, which was the point of my statement to begin with.
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- Thread starter
- #232
no, Vados straight says that it DOESN'T do Time Stop
prove this?
prove this?
..........prove the variations in the first place? prove that they are not different techniques even with Different names?
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OP why are you assuming the time skip means time travel?? Vados never says anything about it being time travel
Just because you proved that it isn't time stop, doesn't mean its time travel
Just because you proved that it isn't time stop, doesn't mean its time travel
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- Thread starter
- #234
what else would "skipping time" be? and the point of Goku analising where Hit would attack 0.1 seconds in the future also suggests that he is going to the future, with Goku predicting where he will be in said future
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Hit is just going into his dimension and travelling to another position in space within his dimension and going back out. Hence why when Goku figured that he would only be in said dimension for x amount of time, he would then just have to predict where Hit would try to attack him in said specified amount of time
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No one assumed anything, an official page states that Hit can jump into the future via time skip, isnt that time travel?
Edit: I found the site, thoughts?
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Might comment more if I have time eventually, but option 2 looks the most reliable to me right now.
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Bruh no that's not time skip, the dimension hoping is a different ability all together.
It's created via the skipped time hit stores, that's what dimension hoping is.
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Wouldn't it be more accurate to label to it as time travel negation as opposed to minor resistance to time manipulation?
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The idea that stretching out the duration of the time skip completely thwarts any power-up his opponent has makes no sense. Tell me how Goku can break through time skip at 0.1 seconds but not half a second. That means he has 4 additional time frames he's shown to operate within stacked onto what he already beat.
Saying increasing his strength allows him to lengthen his time skip directly proves my point that his ability is based on ki and not manipulation of the temporal dimension itself. That's why I compared his ability to Whis, who manipulates time outside of a ki technique. If it isn't based on ki, what proof do you have that shows otherwise?
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