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Literally gets contradicted by the that Beerus has a better speed feat in that exact same arc.
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"Skipping? Stopping? man idek anymore" Hit time skip re-revision
- Thread starter omegabronic
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What.
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Just make it PIS and call it a day at this point lol. You think tanks are never finding common ground 
Killerdrone123
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Can you please tell me what are you proposing?
Cause this is getting very confusing now
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Something like what I said on page 4
Killerdrone123
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You are saying time stop + time travel and he is saying it isn't time travel and neither time stop
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Hit's hax is just a mix of Time Manip + Pocket Reality Manip + sometimes Intangibility.
Goku's resistance would be to just that as the Time Skip is neither Stop nor Travel. Working on a Blog on it as I said.
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Beerus traveling the same distance in a tenth of the time. Plus isn’t that statement of yours from the RoF not super?
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Massively FTL+ - Possible/Likely Immeasurable at peak. Is probably better
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Killerdrone123
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that can't work since for his pocket dimension to be made, time has to be skiped litterally to be collected, if it is just stopped then there nothing to collect, also ignoring the fact that Goku moved several times during the said skips, which wouldn't happen if it was time stop
AizenBankai09
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I'd say either we could grant goku a greater resistance towards time manipulation or basically remove hit from this wiki. 
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In fact, it's "stopped" for anyone but Hit due to said Time being skipped for them.
I never said it's Time Stop.
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after you do, can we create a staff thread to settle this? this one shows is starting to get too big, too messy, too fast, i don't think there is any staff willingly to go into this mess to evaluate anymore
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Yeah. Preferably also Staff Only, as we reached 5 pages in less than 2 days.
The_Yellow_Topaz
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That's not Super Saiyan God's multiplier. That's Vegito's multiplier, which God scales up. You can't use that example.
"Hey, you can't use multipliers as a contradiction, what about these other series who have the same problem", the very definition of whataboutism.
Or maybe you don't know what you're saying??? Oh wow.
Multipliers are a contradiction.
Me when I make shit up:
There are not levels to immeasurable speed, it's a binary concept, you either treat time as a spatial dimension or you don't, there's no in-between.
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Immeasurable Speed literally gives the user the ability of travel through time, lol
This is like saying someone with time travel can´t travel through time
I will give a concrete vote on the subject when Strym finishes his blog explaining the ability
This is like saying someone with time travel can´t travel through time
I will give a concrete vote on the subject when Strym finishes his blog explaining the ability
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Wouldn’t it still be immeasurable via moving when time is “froze-skipped?” Or are we assuming Goku is resistant to both Time Stop and Time Skip? Also, rewatching episode 72, Goku’s KHH interacts with (read—Destroys and collides with in their power struggle) Hit’s Time Dimension, so shouldn’t that register as a new NPI justification for him? Same for the WoV, actually—I’m getting off topic.
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No for the same reason why moving in Time Stops isn't Infinite either.
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Point being that the multipler is not infinite and he clearly jumps a beyond infinite gap with finite numbers and why can’t we use the example if it’s an in verse example of what you’re complaining about?
Name the series I was talking about. I was pointing out the contradiction in what you said.
Lmao I literally gave you an an example and you in verse of finite multipliers jumping infinite gaps and you tell me I can’t use that because reasons.
Then stop making stuff up not every character with immeasurable speed are gonna have the capability’s to travel to any point in time freely. Hence why the thread is treating it as a very limited form of immeasurable speed
Killerdrone123
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I see my bad then read it wrong
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We don't know if the multiplier is finite or not, we use the 400x400 as a minimum, but we can never downscale it for base in any way since we don't know the actual multiplier
By definition they will, the time axis is like a spatial one for them
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- Thread starter
- #186
If you want to ignore the times Goku moved during it that is, also the other statements of it not stopping time
Also the first link has no reason to be the time skip, also it has a far bigger duration than what the Time Skip has shown
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I'm not sure if this was brought up already, but the conversation with King Kai was translated on the requests forum.
It seems the intention was not that Goku was analytically predicting Hit's moves, but the discussion was meant to convey that he physically "forced himself into the future," with such an action resulting in his senses (which physically went beyond time) becoming temporally out-of-sync with his mind (which was presumably stuck in the present).
The_Yellow_Topaz
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The multiplier is nothing, it's unknown. You can't say what it is or what it isn't. Lmao.
Oh just so you know, even if it had a multiplier, the 2-C feat is so overwhelmingly stronger as proof that the multiplier itself would be a meaningless contradiction, Dragon Ball is consistently 2-C. This isn't the same for the immeasurable speed feat, because it has much weaker evidence and several contradictions.
In both cases, the multiplier is a valid contradiction. You act as if I said the multiplier was an "end-all, be-all" contradiction. It isn't. It is a contradiction, to decide whether it matters in our judgement we have to use the surrounding context. But in the case of the SSG's multiplier, your point isn't even correct, because the form doesn't have a multiplier, so any claims around it are effectively false.
You were not talking about specifics, you were being general. You didn't point out any contradiction, you said "uhhhm, other series do it, so DB can do it as well".
Right here:
You quote other characters in fiction. What they do is irrelevant to how we judge Dragon Ball. Where exactly does this contradict my text? I said that the multiplier is a valid contradiction, and then proceeded to dismantle your entire argument, explaining exactly how a finite multiplier is still a contradiction even to tiers we've accepted, so pointing it out is completely meaningless to the conversation.
I said you can't use it because SSG doesn't have a multiplier but I guess that went over your head. I made the text bigger for you, maybe you can see what I meant now. You can't claim that SSG's multiplier is finite or infinite BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE ONE. It's a simple concept, you're acting like it's rocket science.
Also, as I explained, and again I'll make the text big for you to pay attention:
A FINITE MULTIPLIER IS STILL A CONTRADICTION EVEN IF A TIER IS ACCEPTED AND VALID, BECAUSE IN THIS CASE, THE MULTIPLIER IS AN INSIGNIFICANT CONTRADICTION AGAINST A MUCH STRONGER PIECE OF EVIDENCE AND/OR FEAT. 2-C DBS HAS MOUNTAINS OF EVIDENCE, MAKING THE MULTIPLIER CONTRADICTION MEANINGLESS. IMMEASURABLE SPEED HAS ONE MINOR FEAT AND SEVERAL CONTRADICTIONS, SO IT'S FALSE EQUIVALENCE TO USE BOTH AS IF THEY WERE THE SAME.
I hope this helps you understand exactly why your argument is nonsense. I feel like I've knocked the physical manifestation of your arguments into the ring several times, and it sucks to see it get up only to be knocked down again. Please stop repeating yourself and forcing me to explain again and again why you're completely wrong.
Brother you don't even know what Immeasurable Speed is. If a character has immeasurable speed he HAS the capability to travel to any point in time freely, BY DEFINITION. This isn't a debate, Immeasurable Speed is not a spectrum.
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if you can't do this then you don't have immeasurable speed lmao
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Where in the following sequence does it talk about Goku forcing himself into the future?
Mainly because it has 読 which seems to mean "read". I don't know Japanese, I'm just researching on my own until someone explains it in detail or a translation assistant explains it.
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that guy is not a translation member and why are we trusting this??
The_Yellow_Topaz
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It's "pushing yourself", meaning exerting too much stamina, which is related to the fact Goku was reckless with Kaioken. It, in no way, says anything about forcing himself into the future
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Then explain which part of the sentence and which kanji, sequence of kanji, has something to do with it.
The only thing I see looking at on my own is about the context of reading seconds into the future.
The_Yellow_Topaz
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そういう "such; like that", 無理 "impossible; unreasonable", ばかり "only", し conjunctive form of the verb "to do", とる (toru) "to take"
King Kai is basically saying Goku can't take things to such an unreasonable extent, meaning exerting himself too much, that's what caused his delayed Ki.
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I'm not talking about that, but rather the part about forcing yourself into the future.
The_Yellow_Topaz
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This part doesn't exist
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They’re saying it doesn’t/agreeing with you.
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Uh?
Hasty12345
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If Kaio-Ken is accepted as a valid multiplier for previous arcs, we shouldn't assume all of a sudden it has some magical properties.
I know Goku is portrayed as a total idiot in Super, not being able to count properly, but he does demonstrate the ability to count up to at least 10.
If Goku shouts "kaio ken x 10" it's probably a 10x multiplier, which does contradict immeasurable speed interpretations that don't have SSB Goku at immeasurable speed.
I know Goku is portrayed as a total idiot in Super, not being able to count properly, but he does demonstrate the ability to count up to at least 10.
If Goku shouts "kaio ken x 10" it's probably a 10x multiplier, which does contradict immeasurable speed interpretations that don't have SSB Goku at immeasurable speed.
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Although DBS is no stranger to having infinite jumps with finite boosts, It seems the translation that claimed Goku went into the future may be wrong in either case.
But this seems to paint a clear picture of the normal timeskip
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