Ben 10: Ghost ship is non canon

[Reiner04]

Our official Ben 10 cosmology page says that Ghost ship is canon:

Ben 10 Cosmology

It is a big Universe, Ben, full of wonder and variety and... yes, incredible grossness.Rook to Ben This page will cover Ben 10 Terminology and Cosmology. This page will use statements from the Ben 10 series, Novels, and Other verified information from secondary sources that are supported by the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

But it has obvious contradiction with the TV show since The events of the comic book is of after Ben prime got back access to Feedback but khyber still has access to his dog which shouldn't be the case since Khyber lost loyalty and friendship with the dog way before Ben prime got access to feedback. Making it non canon.

Scans:

Scans Ghostship

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Our official Ben 10 cosmology page says that Ghost ship is canon:

Ben 10 Cosmology

It is a big Universe, Ben, full of wonder and variety and... yes, incredible grossness.Rook to Ben This page will cover Ben 10 Terminology and Cosmology. This page will use statements from the Ben 10 series, Novels, and Other verified information from secondary sources that are supported by the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

But it has obvious contradiction with the TV show since The events of the comic book is of after Ben prime got back access to Feedback but khyber still has access to his dog which shouldn't be the case since Khyber lost loyalty and friendship with the dog way before Ben prime got access to feedback. Making it non canon.

Scans:

Scans Ghostship

vsbattles.fandom.com

....... It accepted as alternate-timeline XD

 

[Reiner04]

....... It accepted as alternate-timeline XD

Why it is canon to main show as alternate timeline?

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Why it is canon to main show as alternate time line?

Is only accepted as alternate timeline canon, as event exists in Cross-Time

 

[Reiner04]

Is only accepted as canon, as event exists in Cross-Time

I need evidence of it being a alternate timeline in the TV show.

 

[Reiner04]

Or perhaps, writers statement?

 

[KaramcaS]

Reiner is right

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

I need evidence of it being a alternate timeline in the TV show.

Or perhaps, writers statement?

According to Duncan Rouleau there must be something to it that ties it to canon and it has been mentioned why it is canon as it mentions events that only happened in the main timeline, but it shows us some points that things changed in the show for example Kyber's dog or the form of Feedback, so it's an alternate timeline that tells a story in which Ben did not lose Feedback and Kyber did not leave his dog

 

[Reiner04]

According to Duncan Rouleau there must be something to it that ties it to canon and it has been mentioned why it is canon as it mentions events that only happened in the main timeline, but it shows us some points that things changed in the show for example Kyber's dog or the form of Feedback, so it's an alternate timeline that tells a story in which Ben did not lose Feedback and Kyber did not leave his dog

Duncan mentioning that some alternative media besides show can be canon if it links itself with the show is right. But this one doesn't since it breaks off the moment it contradicts the main show. Ur point seems to be more of an attempt to declare all spin offs or ben 10 media canon since all of them has ben and all of them has Omnitrix so they are connected and must be alternate timeline which obviously is not the case.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Duncan mentioning that some alternative media besides show can be canon if it links itself with the show is right. But this one doesn't since it breaks off the moment it contradicts the main show.

Nah, he say if you see The essence connects it to a show like mentioning events that didn't happen only in a show it is Canon. He even say comic is canon.

Ur point seems to be more of an attempt to declare all spin offs or ben 10 media canon since all of them has ben and all of them has Omnitrix so they are connected and must be alternate timeline which obviously is not the case.

No, my point if this any prove they mentioned event is only shown in show, it's canon (Note: one event isn't enough to being canon)

 

[jgms2008]

Duncan mentioning that some alternative media besides show can be canon if it links itself with the show is right. But this one doesn't since it breaks off the moment it contradicts the main show. Ur point seems to be more of an attempt to declare all spin offs or ben 10 media canon since all of them has ben and all of them has Omnitrix so they are connected and must be alternate timeline which obviously is not the case.

Wait, if I remember correctly, he said in this comic and said by Ben that he transformed into Crashhopper to save people from the rockets in EP Ben 10 Omniverse EP 7 This would not be considered an alternate timelineand that would also be in The Timestream?

 

[Reiner04]

Nah, he say if you see The essence connects it to a show like mentioning events that didn't happen only in a show it is Canon. He even say comic is canon.

No, my point if this any prove they mentioned event is only shown in show, it's canon (Note: one event isn't enough to being canon)

Nope. The moment it contradicts it's strayed off unless confirmed to be canon in alternate timeline way. That's how standard works here.

 

[Firestorm808]

Per the Cosmology Information Page, we describe them as follows:

Material with direct narrative connections to the show are considered secondary canon.

Material without direct narrative connections to the show are considered alternative canon.

Attempts to scale or use content from outside material to the show will be under scrutiny of compatibility with the primary source material.

I don't see how this is an issue.

 

[Reiner04]

Per the Cosmology Information Page, we describe them as follows:



I don't see how this is an issue.

Because the given comic book directly contradicts what happened in the show breaking off the alignment thus violating 3rd point or even common standard for what to be taken as canon:

Attempts to scale or use content from outside material to the show will be under scrutiny of compatibility with the primary source material.

 

[Firestorm808]

Because the given comic book directly contradicts what happened in the show breaking off the alignment thus violating 3rd point or even common standard for what to be taken as canon:

This is under the impression that the comic is part of the prime timeline.

This and other Ben 10 media are treated as alternate timelines of the infinite that exist.

 

[Reiner04]

This is under the impression that the comic is part of the prime timeline.

This and other Ben 10 media are treated as alternate timelines of the infinite that exist.

But this way there is no point of 3rd existing right? Since any spin off that exist will become canon per point 2:

Material without direct narrative connections to the show are considered alternative canon.

And even if there is some contradiction we can just dismiss it saying it's a alternate timeline. Making 3rd point useless:

Attempts to scale or use content from outside material to the show will be under scrutiny of compatibility with the primary source material.

I don't think there been ever statement confirming ghostship as alternate timeline among infinite timelines that exist.

 

[Firestorm808]

But this way there is no point of 3rd existing right? Since any spin off that exist will become canon per point 2:



And even if there is some contradiction we can just dismiss it saying it's a alternate timeline. Making 3rd point useless:



I don't think there been ever statement confirming ghostship as alternate timeline among infinite timelines that exist.

I believe you are misunderstanding what the 3rd sentence means.

There is no third point/category. It is just a guideline on how we treat the material outside the show in general, be it secondary or alternative canon.

 

[Reiner04]

I believe you are misunderstanding what the 3rd sentence means.

There is no third point/category. It is just a guideline on how we treat the material outside the show in general, be it secondary or alternative canon.

But do we have evidence regarding Ghostship being alternate timeline? As far as I know, any media that contradicts canon material is considered non canon unless said to exist in some alternate universe form. Like Gwen 10, universe where ben didn't had to destroy omnitrix to defeat vilgax, etc.

 

[Firestorm808]

But do we have evidence regarding Ghostship being alternate timeline? As far as I know, any media that contradicts canon material is considered non canon unless said to exist in some alternate universe form. Like Gwen 10, universe where ben didn't had to destroy omnitrix to defeat vilgax, etc.

Again, the Cosmology blog never said that Ghost Ship is part of the same continuity as the Prime/Show continuity. What exactly is the proposed change here?

 

[Shadowslaya!]

Nice bait try bro.

 

[Reiner04]

Again, the Cosmology blog never said that Ghost Ship is part of the same continuity as the Prime/Show continuity. What exactly is the proposed change here?

I know cosmology page don't say that it is part of Ben prime timeline. Neither it says anything about them being alternate timeline. Nevertheless what is being proposed is that it is non-canon to entire Ben 10 show/crosstime continuity due to obviously not aligning with the show and no evidence of being part of crosstime.

Should said alternative versions originate within the main continuity, they would also be considered primary canon, and allowed, if notable enough.

 

[Greenshifter]

Just use Paradox’s and Gwen 10 narrator statement that other stories of Ben 10 (which includes alternate media) are canon as alternate timelines. Sheesh.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Looks good to me, I agree.

 

[Reiner04]

Just use Paradox’s and Gwen 10 narrator statement that other stories of Ben 10 (which includes alternate media) are canon as alternate timelines. Sheesh.

You and I know very well that vsbw don't follow that approach, these arguments have been existed since always. But we have always concluded that Only Comics and stories of other media that has been mentioned in the original show will be considered canon. That's why we had to prove "Action packs comics" in specific being canon to @DontTalkDT . Other medias unless has showcase in the original story or hinted (even if in form of alternate timeline) can't be considered (authors statement exception). Else all comics would have been canon which is clearly not the case since we have Duncan statement confirming that "all comics aren't canon" infact, "generally, they are not".

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Just use Paradox’s and Gwen 10 narrator statement that other stories of Ben 10 (which includes alternate media) are canon as alternate timelines. Sheesh.

"So many different ways to tell a story. But that's what makes them so interesting. You can never predict how they're gonna turn out."

 

[Reiner04]

"So many different ways to tell a story. But that's what makes them so interesting. You can never predict how they're gonna turn out."

Yes. Any regular unpredictable multiverse.

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

You and I know very well that vsbw don't follow that approach, these arguments have been existed since always. But we have always concluded that Only Comics and stories of other media that has been mentioned in the original show will be considered canon. That's why we had to prove "Action packs comics" in specific being canon to @DontTalkDT . Other medias unless has showcase in the original story or hinted (even if in form of alternate timeline) can't be considered (authors statement exception). Else all comics would have been canon which is clearly not the case since we have Duncan statement confirming that "all comics aren't canon" infact, "generally, they are not".

There was reference to the comic mentioned in Omniverse.

 

[Reiner04]

There was reference to the comic mentioned in Omniverse.

Naming fallacy... really? The ghost ship Ben 23 is talking about has nothing to do with ghost ship comic that we are discussing

 

[Greenshifter]

You and I know very well that vsbw don't follow that approach

Well something tells me you have the power to change that.

Else all comics would have been canon which is clearly not the case since we have Duncan statement confirming that "all comics aren't canon" infact, "generally, they are not".

Death of the author then for contradicting the show.

 

[Reiner04]

Well something tells me you have the power to change that.

Well. If that smth is written on the Cosmology Canonicity section then I have no problem with it. That all medias and continuities are canon following "paradox and Ben 10 classic" statements. But we don't. Leaving it to me like we don't consider that as evidences.

Death of the author then for contradicting the show.

Same as what I said above.

 

[Greenshifter]

Well. If that smth is written on the Cosmology Canonicity section then I have no problem with it. That all medias and continuities are canon following "paradox and Ben 10 classic" statements. But we don't. Leaving it to me like we don't consider that as evidences.

Same as what I said above.

Seems like you got a CRT to make then, thx dear.

 

[Reiner04]

Seems like you got a CRT to make then, thx dear.

This crt is enough. Because if what u said is not considered here then Ghostship shall be removed from cosmology page or if we do, we will have to properly make it clear on the page and link to Paradox and Ben 10 classic statements.

 

[Greenshifter]

Uh sure Ig, whatever floats your boat.

 

[Reiner04]

Uh sure Ig, whatever floats your boat.

We don't disagree. Just about whether or not vsbw agrees with that argument

 

[Electronic74947]

Reiner is online again as a thread mod? Damn

Following for now

 

[Reiner04]

Just use Paradox’s and Gwen 10 narrator statement that other stories of Ben 10 (which includes alternate media) are canon as alternate timelines. Sheesh.

@Firestorm808 do you think we can elaborate about these two things in the cosmology page? These 2 statements are basically same and hints towards Multiverse encompassing different medias as separate Universes.

 

[Firestorm808]

@Firestorm808 do you think we can elaborate about these two things in the cosmology page? These 2 statements are basically same and hints towards Multiverse encompassing different medias as separate Universes.

Seems okay from me.

 

[Reiner04]

@Hellformer @Celestial_Scaler25 @Ultimate-Rex1 can any of you create a draft regarding inclusion of other medias within verse as "alternate timelines/stories" following paradox and Ben 10 classic statement? So they can be added in the cosmology page.

 

[Hellformer]

@Hellformer @Celestial_Scaler25 @Ultimate-Rex1 can any of you create a draft regarding inclusion of other medias within verse as "alternate timelines/stories" following paradox and Ben 10 classic statement? So they can be added in the cosmology page.

A blog? Or an explanation paragraph in the cosmology page?

 

[Reiner04]

A blog? Or an explanation paragraph in the cosmology page?

A paragraph. Small one.