Garou vs Reinhard (15-5-1)

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

But let's be fr this ain't ever gonna happen

They are literally saying Reinhard is not skilled, only talented

 

[DavidTPPM]

Reinhard's instinctive reactions allow him to dodge rain...

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Can we get Reinhard to fight the guy who can dodge timestop with pure skill

 

[MrTayman616]

You cannot hit Reinhard as long as his DPs are working as the world itself wont allow it

Uh, no. Those types of DP's are limited to his physical capabilities.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Uh, no. Those types of DP's are limited to his physical capabilities.

I wouldn't doubt it considering he has a divine protection against real life tactical nukes

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Honestly, this is starting to remind me of Tensura vs Re: Zero. We're going round 3 with Hinata vs Reinhard?, Basically just adaptation vs skill.

After reading both profiles and arguments so far, it seems like Reinhard takes it; he both outskills and seemingly has counters to Garou's attacks, which are more likely than not to work.

So yeah, Voting Reinhard for winning more times than not.

 

[MrTayman616]

After reading both profiles and arguments so far, it seems like Reinhard takes it; he both outskills and seemingly has counters to Garou's attacks, which are more likely than not to work.

Based on his abilities, what is he going to do before Garou's RE shows effect?

Will he even kill him right? Garou can overcome death, which causes explosive growth enough to blitz and one shot those comparable to him.

Not to mention, This version of Garou was showing explosive growth just because he was getting angry.

---

Also, dodging rain by instinct is different here. It just mentions they avoid the rain because they sense danger from it(the raindrops were blades of water). Not that they're so skilled they're just dodging rain with pure instinct. (though bet they could still do it :d)

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Based on his abilities, what is he going to do before Garou's RE shows effect?

Sadly, RE is not a factor if he gets blitzed before. Hell, you should go read some of the old Tensura vs Re:Zero matchups. Sorry to say, but Garou's RE has nothing on them...
*Rimuru vs Ainz vs Reinhard.
*Hinata vs Reinhard.
*Hinata vs Reinhard, round 2.

From what I am seeing, it's a similar matchup, but Garou has worse wincons and worse RE...

Will he even kill him right? Garou can overcome death, which causes explosive growth enough to blitz and one shot those comparable to him.

I have no reason why Reinhard doesn't one-shot

Existence Erasure (He completely erased all traces of Puck from the world, to the degree that there was no hint that a battle had even taken place.

Spatial Manipulation (His sword-flash cuts through space itself

So yeah, If he can nuke Rimuru, he should be able to do this with Garou as well.

So yeah, I see no reason why we should assume Garou can recover from this.

Not to mention, This version of Garou was showing explosive growth just because he was getting angry.

And? RE dosen't matter if he gets one tapped.

 

[MrTayman616]

Sadly, RE is not a factor if he gets blitzed before.

How is he getting blitzed?

So yeah, If he can nuke Rimuru, he should be able to do this with Garou as well.

So yeah, I see no reason why we should assume Garou can recover from this.

Reinhard doesn't have any type of sword with him rn. He can't use that sword slash move. (his profile needs some random sword just in case imo :d)

He can't use EE because that's via Dragon Sword Reid, which is restricted.

And? RE dosen't matter if he gets one tapped.

Why would he get one tapped?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Can we just add that he can use a random ass sword as an optional equipment on his profile

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Can we just add that he can use a random ass sword as an optional equipment on his profile

Why go with a sword, we could just use some chopsticks?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Oh yeah almost forgot to mention this but the reason Reinhard doesnt carry a second sword is because there will never be a situation where he will need a sword and there wont be one. So, even if there isnt one in this matchup, he will find one anyway

(not sure if it was sword or weapon in general but yeah)

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Oh yeah almost forgot to mention this but the reason Reinhard doesnt carry a second sword is because there will never be a situation where he will need a sword and there wont be one. So, even if there isnt one in this matchup, he will find one anyway

(not sure if it was sword or weapon in general but yeah)

So basically we don’t need to add a random sword as an optional equipment on his profile because he’ll just somehow find one in this match?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

So basically we don’t need to add a random sword as an optional equipment on his profile because he’ll just somehow find one in this match?

yep

Q: When he fought with Elsa, why didn’t Reinhard have a spare sword? If he knows his sword can’t be drawn, I think it would be good for him to have a sword he can draw.

A: If it’s a scene where he’ll need a sword, Reinhard knows a sword he can use will be within reach. On the other hand, he also knows that if it’s a scene with no usable weapon on hand, he’ll get by somehow without a weapon.

Q: Why doesn’t Reinhard walk around carring anything besides the Dragon Sword Reid? Since he knows he won’t be able to draw it in most situations, if he carried another regular sword around, he wouldn’t have to be borrowing one all the time. Is it an indication that he’s confident he can win even without a sword?

A: He feels that even if he doesn’t carry one with him, he’ll be able to find what he needs, when he needs it.

 

[MrTayman616]

Oh yeah almost forgot to mention this but the reason Reinhard doesnt carry a second sword is because there will never be a situation where he will need a sword and there wont be one. So, even if there isnt one in this matchup, he will find one anyway

I don't remember something like that, could you show it please?

Thx

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

So yeah he would have access to both EE and spatial cut

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

LMFAO SO HE CAN STILL USE THE THOUSAND KILOMETER CONCEPTUAL TYPE 2 LAW MANIP EXISTENCE ERASURE SLASH IN THIS MATCH WITH A RANDOM SWORD HE FOUND?

 

[MrTayman616]

Reinhard knows a sword he can use will be within reach

But isn't this an expectancy based on their world? There are many allies he can just get a sword from, or many location he can easily get one.

It's not that a sword just magically appears if he needs it.

So yeah he would have access to both EE and spatial cut

EE is only with Dragon Sword Reid.

 

[Zabazab]

Uh, no. Those types of DP's are limited to his physical capabilities.

Yeah it's described as such on his page. Also pretty obvious given Reinhard has been hit a number of times.

 

[MrTayman616]

Yeah it's described as such on his page. Also pretty obvious given Reinhard has been hit a number of times.

Otherwise, imagine some random 4 years old kid dodging Cecilus's attacks because he has that divine protection lol.

 

[Zabazab]

Otherwise, imagine some random 4 years old kid dodging Cecilus's attacks because he has that divine protection lol.

It's a case where the Divine Protection's use dramatically scales up with the holder's abilities. Reinhard is strong because he's Reinhard.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

LMFAO SO HE CAN STILL USE THE THOUSAND KILOMETER CONCEPTUAL TYPE 2 LAW MANIP EXISTENCE ERASURE SLASH IN THIS MATCH WITH A RANDOM SWORD HE FOUND?

cm type 2 would be restricted and i think the range would be limited

But isn't this an expectancy based on their world? There are many allies he can just get a sword from, or many location he can easily get one.

thats just one aspect of it, in arc 1 there were neither allies nor a location where he could have gotten a sword. Yet he found a random one in the cellar.

EE is only from Dragon Sword Reid.

well you see, the EE he uses on puck is just a stronger version of what he used in arc 1...
wow i just realized its not indexed as such, might have to make a CRT for it

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

thats just one aspect of it, in arc 1 there were neither allies nor a location where he could have gotten a sword. Yet he found a random one in the cellar.

Considering the fight takes place in New York battery park, where do you think he’ll find a sword

 

[MrTayman616]

thats just one aspect of it, in arc 1 there were neither allies nor a location where he could have gotten a sword. Yet he found a random one in the cellar.

There was a sword on the wall of the building. It didn't just appear.

well you see, the EE he uses on puck is just a stronger version of what he used in arc 1...

What he did in arc 1 is spatial cut. (It's exteremely clear based on the statement). No implication of it being EE (nor it shows anything of that scale)

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Considering the fight takes place in New York battery park, where do you think he’ll find a sword

random display shop/museum

There was a sword on the wall of the building. It didn't just appear.

so he needed a sword and he found one

 

[MrTayman616]

so he needed a sword and he found one

He found a sword in a building with a sword. (Also don't disrespect him saying he needed it :d)

 

[Arkansalter2]

Make the battle take place in a desert.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Make the battle take place in a desert.

Then he finds an abandoned sword buried in the sand

 

[Zabazab]

Considering the fight takes place in New York battery park, where do you think he’ll find a sword

A machete or meat cleaver or knife or iron pipe or spoon will do I think

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

A machete or meat cleaver or knife or iron pipe or spoon will do I think

Do they all have spatial slashes

 

[Phoenks]

People saying Reinhard out skills but won't bring up actual skill feats. Dodging rain is not a quantifiable thing.

It's like me saying I'm the most skilled guy in the world because I can "fit a cubic meter inside of a cubic centimeter." It's a completely stupid notion because such a thing is not possible or logically sound whatsoever. Actually insane how wanked Re: Zero is on this website NGL. I hate interacting with it sometimes despite the series being one of my absolute favorites.

Reinhard's passive auto dodge also only works against ranged attacks and it is still not a 100% thing. It is possible for characters to hit Reinhard in combat on many occasions. Especially if we're talking about close combat.

If you want to say Reinhard wins because of bit AoE space slash or existence erasure then say that, but don't be disingenuous.

 

[Zabazab]

Reinhard's passive auto dodge also only works against ranged attacks

This isn't true.

 

[Phoenks]

This isn't true.

Show an instance of it working against close combat attacks consistently.

 

[Zabazab]

Show an instance of it working against close combat attacks consistently.

Here and here and probably here. The First-Sight and Second Coming DPs both do work on ranged attacks, but they're not oriented around them like Arrow Evasion. They're just ripoffs of Saber's [Intuition: A] skill.

 

[Epiccheev]

Considering the fight takes place in New York battery park, where do you think he’ll find a sword

Imagine he finds a gun shop. American Reinhard.

 

[Phoenks]

Here and here and probably here. The First-Sight and Second Coming DPs both do work on ranged attacks, but they're not oriented around them like Arrow Evasion. They're just ripoffs of Saber's [Intuition: A] skill.

First one is just a general explanation.

Second one is against ranged attacks.

Third one actively supports my point because why would Reinhard have to deflect and guard attacks if he'd automatically evade them?

 

[Epiccheev]

Btw aren't you talking about cosmic fear mode?

I assumed he would have already stomped Garou at this point, lol.
Will save the arguments for if it gets used in the future.

 

[MrTayman616]

First one is just a general explanation.

The attacks were very mechanical, holding no passion or emotion. Theclansfolk were hunting powerful humans, and they were doing it logically,cruelly, and mercilessly. They danced through the sky on their wings, shotpoison darts from the pipes in their mouths, used their mutated arms likesickles to slash at their prey, stabbed with horns that could punch throughsteel, and even charged headlong, relying on their own bodies, encased inimpenetrable carapaces. All unique moves that no normal person couldperform, and yet…

To the assassins, it must have been like a nightmare, for all their attackswere denied. Reinhard used his fancy footwork to keep them all at a distance,despite their flight advantage. The Sword Saint slapped their poison dartsdown in midair. With his hands, he deflected their wind-slicing sickles andtheir armor-piercing horns, while he met their shattering charges and sentthem reeling with a single kick. Reinhard had never seen any of these attacksbefore, yet he wasn’t so much as dirtied by them

 

[Zabazab]

First one is just a general explanation.

The full scene;

The attacks were very mechanical, holding no passion or emotion. The clansfolk were hunting powerful humans, and they were doing it logically, cruelly, and mercilessly. They danced through the sky on their wings, shot poison darts from the pipes in their mouths, used their mutated arms like sickles to slash at their prey, stabbed with horns that could punch through steel, and even charged headlong, relying on their own bodies, encased in impenetrable carapaces. All unique moves that no normal person could perform, and yet…

“Well, well. I’ve never seen any of these attacks before. I guess it would be impolite to describe this as ‘very interesting.’”

“…?!”

To the assassins, it must have been like a nightmare, for all their attacks were denied. Reinhard used his fancy footwork to keep them all at a distance, despite their flight advantage. The Sword Saint slapped their poison darts down in midair. With his hands, he deflected their wind-slicing sickles and their armor-piercing horns, while he met their shattering charges and sent them reeling with a single kick. Reinhard had never seen any of these attacks before, yet he wasn’t so much as dirtied by them.

“Impossible…,” groaned one man with horns growing from his shoulders. His attempt on the emperor’s life had been stopped cold. The bug-like assassin’s voice trembled in astonishment as he watched Reinhard. “These are our most secret and deadly techniques, yet you treat them as nothing… How?!”

“I’m sorry. I’m just going on intuition.”

“Wha…?!” The man’s face stiffened in further disbelief. The next moment, Reinhard pulled close two opponents he had grabbed hold of and sent them crashing into the man with the huge sickles and horns.

An enemy with poisonous feelers tried to take the opportunity to get behind Reinhard, but a saber flashed out and sliced the deadly protrusions in half.

“Reinhard, that explanation was not very helpful.” Poison scattered from the tumbling bits of feeler; Julius brushed it aside with the wind he whipped out from a swipe of his saber, then stabbed the reeling assassin through the limbs. The man crumpled and fell. Julius slammed him in the face with the hilt of his sword, sending the insect-person into unconsciousness.

Having subdued this one opponent, Julius turned to discover that in the meantime, Reinhard had taken on another five of the Insect Cage Clan killers and overpowered them all.

The red-haired knight had described the ability that allowed him to deal so easily with the clan’s unfamiliar attacks as simple intuition, but that was too modest a term for the Divine Protection of First-Sight. It allowed Reinhard to understand instinctively how to react so as to defend himself from attacks he was seeing for the very first time. In a word, it was almost like seeing an attack before it happened. The divine protection was useless if one was unable to react to an attack that was perceived, but Reinhard’s physical abilities were such that there was no attack he couldn’t respond to. And then there was…

“The Divine Protection of the Second Coming…”

When an arm-sickle came at him again, he evaded it easily, even though it came from his blind spot. This was the effect of the Divine Protection of the Second Coming, which allowed him to respond with vastly greater speed to an attack he had encountered once before. These two skills made it impossible to harm Reinhard either with a new attack or a repeated one. Few opponents could have been a better match for the Insect Cage Clan, a group that prided themselves on the strength of their attacks. Had the Sword Saint not been with them, how long could Julius and the others have held out?

“That is rather astonishing…,” Vincent murmured as he watched the scene unfold before him. Reinhard’s knifehand, which could cut more effectively than live steel, slashed through the oncoming clan members as they flew at him one after another. To the emperor, perhaps the Sword Saint’s combative dance, along with his red hair, painted a scene of moths tragically charging toward a flame.

Third one actively supports my point because why would Reinhard have to deflect and guard attacks if he'd automatically evade them?

The Divine Protection's effect is to defend himself. Countering or evading, whichever is more effective, are both included. It's not a Divine Protection of Evasion, it's only called an autododge for convenience. This particular scene has Reinhard fighting a character who is faster than him at his best, while he is also nerfed by a Collar of Submission making him unable to use his full abilities.

 

[Phoenks]

The Divine Protection's effect is to defend himself. Countering or evading, whichever is more effective, are both included. It's not a Divine Protection of Evasion, it's only called an autododge for convenience. This particular scene has Reinhard fighting a character who is faster than him at his best, while he is also nerfed by a Collar of Submission making him unable to use his full abilities.

The application of it in a martial arts fight becomes nebulous when you consider that factor because it tells me this is an ability which is limited by his talent. If "countering" can be more effective in certain scenarios then that means he isn't able to evade absolutely everything by default, and there is indeed cases where it makes more intuitive sense to have to counter. And that "countering" is something that would need to be measured up against the level of skill of his opponent. We wouldn't just assume Reinhard always knows how to perfectly counter someone with 100% accuracy because that would be a clear No Limits Fallacy. Same with the evasive property.

Anyway, ig I'm wrong about it not working on melee close range stuff but it does sure seem less effective overall. And still requires more feats to back it up.