Supersonic+ Kyogai

[Lilybitdun]

I tried asking this question to demon slayer members twice but haven't gotten an answer so I'm making a Q&A post for it

Kyogai is an ex-lower moon rank 6 member which should make him massively upscale the slasher demon's Mach 3.53 feat, this exact same reasoning is used for Rui, Hairo, Ubume, and Enmu's speed justifications
And from what I understand his demotion from the lower moon didn't remove any of his strength either, he only got demoted cause he had reached his limit and couldn't grow stronger from eating regular humans
That leads to the problem that Kyogai spams his transonic technique when his own physical speed should be far faster than it

An injured Tanjiro also calls it very impressive and very strong, even noting how the fast and strong of the attacks and room spinning technique in his thoughts; this also implies the room spin speed is comparable to his transonic attack speed
His room spinning intercepted attacks from both Inosuke and an injured Tanjiro


I want to know why this isn't an anti-feat for the current low-tier supersonic+ scaling

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Not an expert, but it could be because of how disorienting his attacks are + they're invisible + he can spam them. Like, one part of his fight has him drum really fast to increase the amount of attacks/rotations he was putting out. So potentially, this could explain this issue. Again, I'm not a KnY expert and if this explanation is not satisfying, then you can just hope someone with more interest in KnY answers you.

 

[Lilybitdun]

Not an expert, but it could be because of how disorienting his attacks are + they're invisible + he can spam them.

From what I understand his claw attacks aren't invisible

 

[DragoZeroNova]

From what I understand his claw attacks aren't invisible

Honestly, I can't really tell from the anime or the manga. Like, it looks like air slashes that are kinda hard to see, but I'm not sure how well Tanjiro can see them. I'll just say they're hard to see rather then invisible (since solidified air isn't exactly the easiest to see)

 

[Lilybitdun]

It seems like Tanjiro can see the claw attacks just fine from looking over the manga fight and anime version

 

[DragoZeroNova]

It seems like Tanjiro can see the claw attacks just fine from looking over the manga fight and anime version

This video is so trash lol
I took a look at episode 12 and after Tanjiro dodges an attack, he talks about the attack leaving scars that looks like claw marks, which is weird because it makes it sound like he can't see the form of the attack to clearly. But he has already dodged them before that happened and called it a claw attack so idk Tanjiro's stupid? Though he does talk about being afraid so maybe he was just commenting monologue style.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Either way, the visibility was not my main point

 

[Lilybitdun]

This video is so trash lol

I just grabbed the first video I could

I took a look at episode 12 and after Tanjiro dodges an attack, he talks about the attack leaving scars that looks like claw marks, which is weird because it makes it sound like he can't see the form of the attack to clearly. But he has already dodged them before that happened and called it a claw attack so idk Tanjiro's stupid? Though he does talk about being afraid so maybe he was just commenting monologue style.

Idk why would that be a reason for the attacks being invisible, he's just taking note of the damage left behind it

For the disorienting and spamming part, why would he not do hand to hand while using his technique at that point
spam the claw attacks and room spin then attack him while he's mid-dodge; if Kyogai is really upscaling more than 3.5x faster than his own technique it wouldn't be hard for him to do that

 

[DragoZeroNova]

I just grabbed the first video I could

Idk why would that be a reason for the attacks being invisible, he's just taking note of the damage left behind it

For the disorienting and spamming part, why would he not do hand to hand while using his technique at that point
spam the claw attacks and room spin then attack him while he's mid-dodge; if Kyogai is really upscaling more than 3.5x faster than his own technique it wouldn't be hard for him to do that

Well, it seems like he needs to keep hitting the drum for that. Like, he was doing his rapid drumming to constantly move the room, but by the time he reaches Tanjiro the room probably won't be moving.
Moreover (and this may be speculation), but after a quick rewatch, Kyogai's H2H might genuinely just suck. Like, some random ass demon who got killed by Inosuke like nothing just tore his drum off in close quarters with no issues. Dude only knows how to use his techniques (which is also a big emotional thing for him).

 

[Lilybitdun]

(which is also a big emotional thing for him).

That's another reason why rating him above his technique seems weird

hopefully I can get some knowledgeable verse members to clarify

 

[DragoZeroNova]

That's another reason why rating him above his technique seems weird

hopefully I can get some knowledgeable verse members to clarify

+1 hope points

 

[Epyriel]

I tried asking this question to demon slayer members twice but haven't gotten an answer so I'm making a Q&A post for it

Kyogai is an ex-lower moon rank 6 member which should make him massively upscale the slasher demon's Mach 3.53 feat, this exact same reasoning is used for Rui, Hairo, Ubume, and Enmu's speed justifications
And from what I understand his demotion from the lower moon didn't remove any of his strength either, he only got demoted cause he had reached his limit and couldn't grow stronger from eating regular humans
That leads to the problem that Kyogai spams his transonic technique when his own physical speed should be far faster than it

An injured Tanjiro also calls it very impressive and very strong, even noting how the fast and strong of the attacks and room spinning technique in his thoughts; this also implies the room spin speed is comparable to his transonic attack speed
His room spinning intercepted attacks from both Inosuke and an injured Tanjiro

I want to know why this isn't an anti-feat for the current low-tier supersonic+ scaling

It should be noted that Tanjiro was concerned about the rapid room spinning + his spammed transonic attacks at the same time, and yet despite being disoriented and having numerous broken bones and fractured ribs to the point he stated it hurts just to slowly walk, Tanjiro was still able to completely blitz through Kyogai’s absolutely spammed transonic barrage at the end of the fight.

And this was a completely novice Tanjiro on one of his first ever missions.

Considering all Kyogai has to do is tap a drum to send a long ranged multiple-pronged attack, his own combat speed being above the attacks he is spamming isn’t itself implausible. Let alone for the variety of low tiers who fight either against or side by side with a far more healthy and experienced Tanjiro.

 

[Lilybitdun]

It should be noted that Tanjiro was concerned about the rapid room spinning + his spammed transonic attacks at the same time, and yet despite being disoriented and having numerous broken bones and fractured ribs to the point he stated it hurts just to slowly walk, Tanjiro was still able to completely blitz through Kyogai’s absolutely spammed transonic barrage at the end of the fight.

Can't breathing techniques significantly increase speed

https://kimetsu-no-yaiba.fandom.com/wiki/File:Tanjiro_using_Third_Form_Flowing_Dance_on_Susamaru.gif

Also Kyogai's profile lists how he should be superior to Susamaru and Yahaba who scale to a healthy Tanjiro

 

[Epyriel]

Can't breathing techniques significantly increase speed

https://kimetsu-no-yaiba.fandom.com/wiki/File:Tanjiro_using_Third_Form_Flowing_Dance_on_Susamaru.gif

Yes, but the listed base speeds of demon slayers includes their breathing forms (with the exception of techniques that are significantly faster than the rest, which are listed separately on the profiles).

Also Kyogai's profile lists how he should be superior to Susamaru and Yahaba who scale to a healthy Tanjiro

I’m a bit confused, what precisely are you objecting to? The inverse-scaling chain listed on the profiles, the speed ratings for all the Supersonic+ characters, or certain characters in particular?

 

[Lilybitdun]

I’m a bit confused, what precisely are you objecting to? The inverse-scaling chain listed on the profiles, the speed ratings for all the Supersonic+ characters, or certain characters in particular?

The Supersonic+ speed rating since on the surface it seems in conflict with Kyogai's technique speed being something that's meant to be impressive

 

[Lilybitdun]

Yes, but the listed base speeds of demon slayers includes their breathing forms (with the exception of techniques that are significantly faster than the rest, which are listed separately on the profiles).

Weird that flowing dance doesn't get a higher speed rating

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Cool. No one applied the crt yet. Gonna do it now

 

[Epyriel]

The Supersonic+ speed rating since on the surface it seems in conflict with Kyogai's technique speed being something that's meant to be impressive

For like which characters?

Weird that flowing dance doesn't get a higher speed rating

Probably should, at least going by how the anime depicts it.

 

[Catbowtie]

tried asking this question to demon slayer members twice but haven't gotten an answer so I'm making a Q&A post for it

Uh, what?

 

[Lilybitdun]

Cool. No one applied the crt yet. Gonna do it now

?

For like which characters?

idk the exact scaling chain but the current supersonic+ calc comes from a demon that should be inferior to Kyogai right? I think I saw another supersonic+ calc from tanjiro who Kyogai should be comparable to due to the whole being superior to Susamaru and Yahaba thing

Uh, what?

It's this question that didn't get answered

Blood Demon Art: Infinite Discussion (A Kimetsu No Yaiba Discussion Thread)

Quick question, if an attack parts clouds and gets 5 kilotons but the attack on the ground is only 50 tons of TNT, would we still be able to scale the attack to the KE of parting the clouds?

vsbattles.com

The first two questions from this was answered but not the third one

Blood Demon Art: Infinite Discussion (A Kimetsu No Yaiba Discussion Thread)

Quick question, if an attack parts clouds and gets 5 kilotons but the attack on the ground is only 50 tons of TNT, would we still be able to scale the attack to the KE of parting the clouds?

vsbattles.com

I had also asked Castorice privately but didn't get a response either

 

[Catbowtie]

I want to know why this isn't an anti-feat for the current low-tier supersonic+ scaling

You posed the same question here, then got the same answer. Your QnA essentially repeats the same thing you said before.

It's this question that didn't answered

Blood Demon Art: Infinite Discussion (A Kimetsu No Yaiba Discussion Thread)

Quick question, if an attack parts clouds and gets 5 kilotons but the attack on the ground is only 50 tons of TNT, would we still be able to scale the attack to the KE of parting the clouds?

vsbattles.com

I had also asked Castorice privately but didn't get a response either

Then just say this question instead of repeating something you said already lol.

What about Kyogai being 4x faster than his SoS air claw attacks?

 

[Lilybitdun]

Then just say this question instead of repeating something you said already lol.

Kyogai is an ex-lower moon rank 6 member which should make him massively upscale the slasher demon's Mach 3.53 feat, this exact same reasoning is used for Rui, Hairo, Ubume, and Enmu's speed justifications
And from what I understand his demotion from the lower moon didn't remove any of his strength either, he only got demoted cause he had reached his limit and couldn't grow stronger from eating regular humans

bro that's what I did, stop being rude

What about Kyogai being 4x faster than his SoS air claw attacks?

He significantly upscales the slasher demon's Mach 3.53 feat due to being ex-lower moon 6 and via his already existing justifications should scale to Tanjiro's new Mach 3.64 rating

 

[Epyriel]

idk the exact scaling chain but the current supersonic+ calc comes from a demon that should be inferior to Kyogai right?

I mean, debatably? The Slasher Demon’s entire gig is being a speed focused character while Kyogai isn’t a particularly martial fighter.

I think I saw another supersonic+ calc from tanjiro who Kyogai should be comparable to due to the whole being superior to Susamaru and Yahaba thing

I guess you could say the knives thing is an outlier. Or just say Kyogai’s combat speed is plausibly superior to his attack speed, as discussed above. Or he’s just slower than the duo.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Tbh, ignoring the slayer scaling and just talking about the demons, I can understand Rui scaling above the Slasher Demon, but I'm not sure Kyogai should. Not only is the Slasher Demon fast, Kyogai was ****** up by that other random ass demon in the house in CQC and he's also no longer a Lower Moon. In addition, we don't know how long it's been since he was dismissed from his position and it's entirely possible the Slasher Demon was a newer addition that became a demon after Kyogai was demoted. And while Kyogai didn't get weaker, he also didn't exactly get stronger while other demons presumably did, so him being a former Lower Moon isn't a guarantee he's close to the same level as other Lower Moons.
Not a KnY expert so maybe there's some reason why he should but personally speaking, I just don't see it.

 

[Lilybitdun]

I mean, debatably? The Slasher Demon’s entire gig is being a speed focused character while Kyogai isn’t a particularly martial fighter.

With that reasoning why would characters scale to the slasher demon if his supersonic+ rating comes from a technique that greatly boosts his speed

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Ngl this made me realize how much of a fraud Kyogai is lol

 

[Lilybitdun]

Ngl this made me realize how much of a fraud Kyogai is lol

the Lower Moons are jokes lol

 

[Epyriel]

With that reasoning why would characters scale to the slasher demon if his supersonic+ rating comes from a technique that greatly boosts his speed

Legitimate longstanding Lower Moons like Rui and those who scale to him are way above any and all non-Kizuki demons in every stat. Meanwhile Kyogai lost a drum to a complete no-name fodder demon.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

the Lower Moons are jokes lol

Kyogai bottom of barrel. Getting mogged by non lower moons LMAO. Also idk if its been said yet but I just applied the new calc for all profiles.

Tanjiro Kamado

Tanjiro Kamado (竈門かまど 炭たん治じ郎ろう, Kamado Tanjirō?) is the main protagonist of Demon Slayer: Kimetsu No Yaiba. Tanjiro is a kind-hearted young man who has taken it upon himself to support his family, finding happiness despite their lives hardened by his father's death. But that brief warmth is...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Also just checked Yushiro's profile. Who the hell added the line about Susamaru being superior to the slasher demon????

"Can keep up with Susamaru, whom is far superior to the Slasher Demon"

 

[Catbowtie]

bro that's what I did,

Besides your two messages being completely different from one another ("Kyogai is 4x above his own attack speed" vs "Kyogai scales to this statistic via being comparable to other Kagen (doesn't mention anything about SoS attack speed)" why add repetitive fluff when, if anything, the same KNY members are just going to answer the question again?

Just be more concise next time, or like, wait more than 3 days lol

stop being rude

I apologize for making you feel that way, but that wasn't my intention. Maybe should added a tone indicator.

He significantly upscales the slasher demon's Mach 3.53 feat due to being ex-lower moon 6 and via his already existing justifications should scale to Tanjiro's new Mach 3.64 rating

Gotcha.

 

[Lilybitdun]

Besides your two messages being completely different from one another ("Kyogai is 4x above his own attack speed" vs "Kyogai scales to this statistic via being comparable to other Kagen (doesn't mention anything about SoS attack speed)" why add repetitive fluff when, if anything, the same KNY members are just going to answer the question again?

Just be more concise next time, or like, wait more than 3 days lol

I just wanted to cover all bases (plus I don't see how those are completely different from each other but whatevs)
prob could've waited but I'm not a patient person lol, that's my fault

I apologize for making you feel that way, but that wasn't my intention. Maybe should added a tone indicator.

It's alright

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Being a Lower Moon doesn't necessarily mean you're overwhelmingly above non-moons in all aspects, so I could understand if the Slasher Demon was as fast or possibly faster then, say, the new Lower 6. But Rui is probably around the same capabilities with how long he's been around and from what I understand of the Lower Moons, Lower 1 and 2 (both former and current) should absolutely be above the Slasher. I can understand some skepticism though.

Kyogai is absolutely fraud material though, his technique is amazing but he has no combat abilities outside of it other then the standard demon package imo. Personally don't think he should scale to supersonic+. Maybe he could scale to the supersonic calc (being around 1.15x faster then your own technique means nothing when you suck at cqc), but he definitely is not that gai.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Being a Lower Moon doesn't necessarily mean you're overwhelmingly above non-moons in all aspects, so I could understand if the Slasher Demon was as fast or possibly faster then, say, the new Lower 6. But Rui is probably around the same capabilities with how long he's been around and from what I understand of the Lower Moons, Lower 1 and 2 (both former and current) should absolutely be above the Slasher. I can understand some skepticism though.

Kyogai is absolutely fraud material though, his technique is amazing but he has no combat abilities outside of it other then the standard demon package imo. Personally don't think he should scale to supersonic+. Maybe he could scale to the supersonic calc (being around 1.15x faster then your own technique means nothing when you suck at cqc), but he definitely is not that gai.

Rui is as strong as Lower 1-2

Attack Potency: Building level (Far stronger than Tanjiro without Hinokami Kagura and the Spider Demon Father, and was stated to possess the strength around that of a Lower Moon 2 or Lower Moon 1, but was never interested in climbing rank)

 

[Lilybitdun]

why would the author introduce a former lower moon against Tanjiro just for them to be weaker than non-kizuki demons lol
there's a reason gotoge had tanjiro encounter kyogai after already fighting susamaru and yahaba, it's power progression (Tanjiro managed to beat two strong demons but will he be able to take down an ex-lower moon member while still injured?)

was stated to possess the strength around that of a Lower Moon 2 or Lower Moon 1, but was never interested in climbing rank)

the scan link is dead fyi

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

why would the author introduce a former lower moon against Tanjiro just for them to be weaker than non-kizuki demons lol
there's a reason gotoge had tanjiro encounter kyogai after already fighting susamaru and yahaba, it's power progression (Tanjiro managed to beat two strong demons but will he be able to take down an ex-lower moon member while still injured?)

Idk but its hilarious that Kyogai is a genuine bum to the point he unironically got MOGGED by the 2 non kizuki demons staying in the same mansion as him LMFAO.

The scan link is dead fyi

The link works for me but here

 

[Lilybitdun]

Ngl Murata getting Building level from killing an unknown rank lower moon is weird if Kyogai is this much of a bum

 

[Lilybitdun]

Idk but its hilarious that Kyogai is a genuine bum to the point he unironically got MOGGED by the 2 non kizuki demons staying in the same mansion as him LMFAO.

Tanjiro via his smelly power reading ability thinks he's the strongest in the house, feels like it comes down to plot-induced stupidity at that point cause gotoge needed the dude to get the drum

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Rui is as strong as Lower 1-2

Attack Potency: Building level (Far stronger than Tanjiro without Hinokami Kagura and the Spider Demon Father, and was stated to possess the strength around that of a Lower Moon 2 or Lower Moon 1, but was never interested in climbing rank)

I completely forgot about that statement of not being able to win without getting back his powers was related to the Hashira, not Lower 1-2. For some reason, I thought Rui was only Lower 1-2 if he took his blood back lol. Yeah Rui should scale.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Ngl Murata getting Building level from killing an unknown rank lower moon is weird if Kyogai is this much of a bum

Well, there's a few things to consider. First, he very clearly low diffs them. Second, I'm pretty sure those aren't lower moons, they're regular demons that have been enhanced to be at the level of a lower moon demon. Finally, Kyogai is no longer a lower moon and there's no proof he has the level of power required to be one anymore, especially considering it's been a while since he was strong enough to be 6. It's entirely possible the Infinity Castle Demons are stronger and faster then Kyogai, considering they should be stronger and faster then Lower Moon 6, the replacement for him.