Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[Spinoirr]

Yes

Many like to say Supreme Kai can look into a character's max power like the Angels but not only is this speculation but the Buu Saga contradicts this with Supreme Kai thinking Pui Pui would require everyone to fight him (he'd also be taking into account the fact that they can transform) but then is astonished by Vegeta no diffing Pui Pui in base. Same exact thing for the Yakon fight

Shin did sense Fused Zamasu and Infinite Zamasu like bro was There

 

[Padaruyos]

Yes

Many like to say Supreme Kai can look into a character's max power like the Angels but not only is this speculation but the Buu Saga contradicts this with Supreme Kai thinking Pui Pui would require everyone to fight him (he'd also be taking into account the fact that they can transform) but then is astonished by Vegeta no diffing Pui Pui in base. Same exact thing for the Yakon fight

Right I was figuring out how to scale Suppressed Jiren and UIS 1 Goku.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Shin did sense Fused Zamasu and Infinite Zamasu like bro was There

exactly

 

[Killerdrone123]

Alright I finished the Goku Black Arc on my LS blog. ToP is going to be a doozy.

SSB Vegito is sitting at Multi-Galactic

So we are reaching uni right

 

[Brogeefrong]

So we are reaching uni right

gap between multi galactic and uni is 10 billion times so if vegito is around baseline probably no

 

[Killerdrone123]

gap between multi galactic and uni is 10 billion times so if vegito is around baseline probably no

That is sad still multi Galactic Is good

 

[Killerdrone123]

Btw Padaruyos nice job on the blog keep cooking

 

[Brogeefrong]

That is sad still multi Galactic Is good

maybe if post top Goku scales above pre-top SSJB goku we might get uni ls
ah nah i forgot about gogeta

 

[Ednaxel2]

I'm not sure if this might get accepted, this is all upscaling from a Class M feat and is not only lacking in feats (Unless you wanna say Goku and Vegeta are around the power of Super Shenron who is accepted as being Multi-Galactic, if so you do you) but it also has some (at least) minor anti feats

 

[Ednaxel2]

This is still cool to analyze tho

 

[Jaakor48]

Here's the scaling blog for the super manga

Note how it doesn't have the fact that moro's powered up prisoners can fight against start of the arc ssj goku and Vegeta who are weakned, yet the fact the humans can fight against these powered up prisoners like 2 months latter on earth and goku in base easily beats a fusion of 3 of moros prisoners after the 6 months of training in the time chamber with merus

Are we certain the prisoners kept that amp over that time?

 

[Spinoirr]

Are we certain the prisoners kept that amp over that time?

Probably, yeah

 

[Jaakor48]

I'm not sure if this might get accepted, this is all upscaling from a Class M feat and is not only lacking in feats (Unless you wanna say Goku and Vegeta are around the power of Super Shenron who is accepted as being Multi-Galactic, if so you do you) but it also has some (at least) minor anti feats

Upscaling from feats is basically what 99% of dragon ball is about tbh, there are very few standalone feats in the series

SS being multi galactic in size alone doesn't mean that's where its power stops, pretty sure it can casually tk all 12 macrocosms if asked

All anti feats are basically under sustained strength training, gravity training/weighted clothing, with the exception of that manga feat with magetta

 

[Nullflowerblush]

All anti feats are basically under sustained strength training, gravity training/weighted clothing

There are about three (count 'em) Class K-M calculations. There are quite a few anti-feats. If they are truly and consistently capable of lifting millions of tons above their heads, the equivalent of over 10,000,000g, then, logically, 100g should have been a cakewalk before Gravity Training was even invented.

 

[Killerdrone123]

There are about three (count 'em) Class K-M calculations. There are quite a few anti-feats. If they are truly and consistently capable of lifting millions of tons above their heads, the equivalent of over 10,000,000g, then, logically, 100g should have been a cakewalk before Gravity Training was even invented.

Fiction moment

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Goku always comes first

 

[Overlordhamsterball69]

Does this make goku outerversal

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Does this make goku outerversal

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

Does this make goku outerversal

Gokuversal actually

 

[Overlordhamsterball69]

Gokuversal actuallyi need

I need a debunk pls explain lmao

 

[Kroneii1]

Does this make goku outerversal

Boundless

 

[Overlordhamsterball69]

Boundless

I need a debunk bro

 

[Brogeefrong]

I need a debunk bro

nah g goku hyper outerversal

 

[Jaakor48]

There are about three (count 'em) Class K-M calculations.

Another Class M feat calc was accepted. However this doesn't really matter, dragon ball has always had a paucity of calculable feats, it has few feats and a lot of simple scaling due to how linear it is. Also they have multiple class 5+ feats, Goku lifting a car in his first appearance, yajirobe tossing a boulder the size of kid Goku so hard it shattered, Goku flinging the 211kg Giran, bora flinging yajirobe+Goku beyond cloud level, etc. There are NUMEROUS lifting feats that dwarf the training weights that they struggle with throughout DB and DBZ, from versions of the same characters much weaker than they were when they trained with those weights

And dragon ball has clearly shown a clear progression of strength based on their power level

There are quite a few anti-feats.

No there aren't, the 'anti feat' here, is the gar greater effort they put into sustained weighted training, same way their travel speed is an "anti feats" to their combat speed, you won't see anyone trying to downgrade their combat speed either

If they are truly and consistently capable of lifting millions of tons above their heads, the equivalent of over 10,000,000g, then, logically, 100g should have been a cakewalk before Gravity Training was even invented.

Except this distinction is clearly shown in the series. The same Goku who struggled with a 250 pound (113kg) weights tossed a 116ton piccolo, that's the equivalent of a person struggling with a weighted clothing equivalent to a large EGG and then tossing a full grown man


There is CLEARLY a difference in their ability to lift things normally and their ability to handle weighted objects, this same divide occurs IRL too, but it's highly exaggerated in DB/DBZ, owing to Toriyama's obsession with burst attacks and movements, super largely fixed this aspect when it came to weighted training


As long as it's noted that their DB/DBZ lifting scale is for combat/normal lifting and not for weighted training, it's fine

 

[Kroneii1]

I need a debunk bro

Why would it be an outerversal feat?

 

[TiltedFN]

I'm not sure if this might get accepted, this is all upscaling from a Class M feat and is not only lacking in feats (Unless you wanna say Goku and Vegeta are around the power of Super Shenron who is accepted as being Multi-Galactic, if so you do you) but it also has some (at least) minor anti feats

This isn't really a problem, we had the same issue with speed once, the feats ARE the multipliers which are linear and increase everything. We just have to go over anti feats.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

listing off a bunch of class 5 and class 25 feats sure does inspire confidence in the idea that the three class m and one class k calculations are not outliers

 

[NishizumiShiho]

Damn, keep cooking guys, you guys strong. By the way, what about the anti feats Vegeta can't lift Botta Magetta?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

They are rejecting the fact that Gas crossed the Universe, now opinion will be superior to the work and evidence itself?

DBS Manga: God Tier speed upgrade

Hello I made a thing. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Yellow_Topaz/Gas_flies_across_the_universe_at_breaknecking_speeds_(DBS_Manga) This would affect Granolah, Gas, MUI Goku, UE Vegeta, Black Frieza, Beast Gohan and Beerus. We still need to decide on a distance though.

vsbattles.com

 

[SlendVeny]

They are rejecting the fact that Gas crossed the Universe, now opinion will be superior to the work and evidence itself?

DBS Manga: God Tier speed upgrade

Hello I made a thing. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Yellow_Topaz/Gas_flies_across_the_universe_at_breaknecking_speeds_(DBS_Manga) This would affect Granolah, Gas, MUI Goku, UE Vegeta, Black Frieza, Beast Gohan and Beerus. We still need to decide on a distance though.

vsbattles.com

Cope

 

[Overlordhamsterball69]

Why would it be an outerversal feat?

Cause my buddies on discord are dumies and im to dumb to find a good debunk

 

[SlendVeny]

Does this make goku outerversal

No. The panel edges are never stated to exist in the verse, and this isn't consistent with anything else. Plus, it's literally just a joke feat. Otherwise, why would blowing up the moon be considered impressive?

 

[Brogeefrong]

Cause my buddies on discord are dumies and im to dumb to find a good debunk

cause breaking the fourth wall isnt outerversal

 

[Phsccarvalho]

cause breaking the fourth wall isnt outerversal

It's wall level.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

It's gokuversal and yall are cringe

 

[Jaakor48]

listing off a bunch of class 5 and class 25 feats sure does inspire confidence in the idea that the three class m and one class k calculations are not outliers

If you'd read my post, the class 5-25 feats were to eradicate the argument trying to link the difference in their normal lifting strength to their weight training by showing they the dwarf said weights right from the beginning of the series


I dont need to provide more class M feats in a verse that is as simple and linear when it comes to stat scaling as DBZ, as long as no one stronger than said characters with said feats struggle with less feats in the same scenario, nor did they struggle to overpower said weaker characters the scaling chain applies.

I mean, I assume you think Frieza dwarf star calc feat should be added either then? Cuz before that all we had were a "bunch of" planet feats.


But if you're still not agreeing, fine, agree to disagree

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Frieza case is false equivalence. It's not the same a character performs a class M feat, then struggles to perform a lower class feat, to a character performing a planet level feat, then a stronger one performing a small star level feat.

In the first case, first feat is contradicted by later ones; in the second case, character performs a stronger feat because he is stronger than previous characters

 

[Jaakor48]

Frieza case is false equivalence. It's not the same a character performs a class M feat, then struggles to perform a lower class feat, to a character performing a planet level feat, then a stronger one performing a small star level feat.

In the first case, first feat is contradicted by later ones; in the second case, character performs a stronger feat because he is stronger than previous characters

If you can provide instances of tao Pai struggling to lift something less than his class M feat or great ape Goku doing the same, you'd have a point

Not sure what you're responding to, I used Frieza to point out his claim of there not being many class M feats as some kind of sinker to them being outliers

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

If you can provide instances of tao Pai struggling to lift something less than his class M feat or great ape Goku doing the same, you'd have a point

Not sure what you're responding to, I used Frieza to point out his claim of there not being many class M feats as some kind of sinker to them being outliers

Difference is, Frieza calc is supported by later characters performing stronger feats, which make it consistent.

Lifting Strength feats you're using to scale characters to Universal LS through multipliers are contradicted by feats later in the series. Vegeta having a hard time to lift Magetta, Base Goku struggling to lift 40 tons (which would at best weigh the same as 400 tons on Earth due to 10x gravity), 100x gravity being intense training, etc.

That's why people doubt Dragon Ball LS scaling, because it is not supported by the series. Trying to compare it to AP feats which are, in fact, more supported than the LS is false equivalence

 

[RinneItachi]

Does this make goku outerversal

It's an incalculable feat because it's just a gag. It does give Goku 4th Wall Awareness and maybe even a degree of toon force, but in terms of tiers it's irrelevant because it can't be quantified. It certainly wouldn't warrant outerversal specifically. Like, even if we took it seriously for a second which we shouldn't, there is no way that it would SPECIFICALLY be outerversal, idk where your Discord buds got that from. I could understand saying it's low complex multiversal or boundless, but outerversal just shows that they don't even know what outerversal means.

On that note...idk why people love this, but ignore the fact that when Goku first turns into an Oozaru in the Pilaf Saga, there is a text bubble where Toriyama effectively says he can't control Goku anymore and that the story is out of his hands. It's not really applicable but like obv you can easily wank Goku to pretty absurd degrees with that if you were to take it seriously.

I've always said that Pilaf Saga Goku should be treated differently cause Goku was literally a gag character back then. Similarly to Arale. Even in the 21st Tournament Saga he has some gag feats. But afterwards the story becomes a little more serious, and by the King Piccolo Saga it becomes a full on Shonen.