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Dragon Ball Super level of 3-A

The_real_cal_howard

The_real_cal_howard

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Because this has been annoying me for a few days now.

By EoS, how far into 3-A can we safely say they are?

My highest guesstimate is 400x but apparently, that's hard downplay.

Answer this knowing how we rate other verses please.
 
It's completely unknown.

What we know is that Goku and Beerus would have destroyed the universe if Beerus hadn't muted the destructive energy with his GoD powers, making BoG SSG Goku baseline 3-A. They get stronger by an unknown quantity by the time of the Tournament of Power, wherein the top-tiers jump to At Least 3-A to Low 2-C.

How many times greater is Low 2-C compared to max 3-A? an unquantifiable amount?

They might be halfway to baseline 2-C at the ToP. It's hard to say.
 
Low 2C from 3A is two infinities away. Obviously not in DBS, but logically that's not really a gap they're crossing with quantifiable boosts.
 
I tend to think that when Goku tranforms, he tend to become capable of detroying more Universes in one shot if he were to self-destruct uncontrollably. Try more at his range increases by a certain margin or the probability of the universe Goku's currently in getting destroyed increases.
 
400x is definitely far too weak. As Goku's base form is Baseline, (Probably far higher due to training but lets assume his base got NO stronger than from BoG) and we apply the "At least 40x stronger" from regular super saiyan (Via Super Saiyan being superior to Freeza 100% who is superior to 50% Freeza who is roughly equal to Kaioken x20 Goku), AT LEAST double it in SSJ2 (Seriously, if you don't think SSJ2 is at minimum 2x stronger than normal Super Saiyan then I will have to smite you) then double that again in SSJ3 for a BASELINE 80x Multiplier. Super Saiyan God (Goku can apparently stack it on top of his already baseline base as seen in ToP) for another 2x Multiplier GODLY LOWBALL, Then add 40x as SSB is just Super Saiyan God + Super Saiyan for an ultimate multiplier for SSB to be 6400x baseline. And if you consider Blue to NOT be 40x stronger than God form, then we can instead add the Kaioken multiplier of x10 in its place. 160 x 10 is 1600x baseline.

As you can see with even the most ungodly and downplay-est of downplay logic, Goku's SSB state would still be HILARIOUSLY above the hundreds. This is ignoring every zenkai, training montage/session, and Random Power-Ups (Especially with the power of friendship).

Edit:

I'll even do the math with even harsher downplay numbers.

SSJ = 40x (No getting around that)

SSJ2 = 1.5x SSJ

SSJ3 = 1.5x SSJ2

SSG = 1.5x SSJ3

SSB = 40x SSG or Kaiokenx10 = 10x SSG

Final tally:

SSB = 5400x Baseline

SSB Kaiokenx10 = 1350x Baseline

So yeah, there is NO getting around it. Completely ignoring the fact that SSJ2 stomps SSJ, SSJ3 stomps SSJ2 and God roflstomps SSJ3.
 
It's phrased a little weird. The SSB number is using the 40x multiplier from regular Super Saiyan while the Kaiokenx10 one is completely disregarding the SSB increase and only using the Kaioken's x10 multiplier.
 
Lowball, Midball, and Highball being relative.

Assuming only Kaio-Ken's multipliers (Lowball):

SSJB Goku (U6 Arc) <x10< SSJB KKx10 Goku (U6 Arc) = SSJB Goku (Post-Black Arc) = SSJG (BoUS Arc) <<x20<< SSJB KKx20 Goku (BoUS Arc) = 200x (Lowball, ignores literally all zenkais and transformations in between.)

Assuming Kaio-Ken's multipliers + basing SSJ transformation of off Frieza Arc (Midball, personally I think its the best.)

Base Goku (3-A) <<x40<< SSJB Goku (U6 Arc) <10x< SSJB KKx10 Goku (U6 Arc) = SSJB Goku (Post-Black Arc) = SSJG (BoUS Arc) <<x20<< SSJB KKx20 Goku (BoUS Arc) = 8000x (Midball, ignores all zenkais and other SSJ transformations.)

Assuming all the above + Kefla's SSJ = Goku's SSJ assumption (Highball, very extreme, but I think can be still considered "reasonable".)

Base Goku (3-A) <<x40<< SSJB Goku (U6 Arc) <10x< SSJB KKx10 Goku (U6 Arc) = SSJB Goku (Post-Black Arc) = SSJG (BoUS Arc) <<<< Base Kefla <40x< SSJ Kefla >/=(At least comparable to) SSJB KKx2 Goku (Post-UIO#1) <10x< SSJB KKx20 Goku (Post-UIO#1) = 160000x (Highball, sadly still can't factor in zenkais or most transformations)
 
So yeah, no matter how you slice the cheese cake, you can't get any lower than at minimum a thousand times baseline. At minimum. Completely ignoring zenkais or transformations that should stomp prior transformations with no difficulty.
 
I got 200 as a lowball (I agree more with my mid and higher ends however) @Akr, albeit I did have to ignore a lot of things. Though putting random values for the transformations (Save SSJ and KK) won't be accepted.
 
Tfw we can highball Dragon Ball so much that even unreasonable levels are considered lowballs.

I said this on the other thread and I will say this again:

Show me another fiction ever where these levels of superiority are deemed not wank. You can even use broken verses like Digimon, SMT, and PMMM (which btw, the latter had a muuuuuuch more ridiculous chain of scaling and we don't even give it a 50x gap). Heck, use Unineko Cthulhu Mythos, or Masadaverse. You won't find it without feats.
 
Are you seriously implying the gap between Super Saiyan 1 and Super Saiyan 2 isn't AT MINIMUM 1.5x? Are you serious? I lowballed to hell and back, setting the bar down as low as 1.5x to constitute a "stomp" in dragon Ball, and it won't be accepted? seriously?

"Show me another fiction ever where these levels of superiority are deemed not wank."

Saying the level of power needed to stomp another character is 1.5x isn't downplay but instead wank is somehow logical because...?

"You can even use broken verses like Digimon, SMT, and PMMM (which btw, the latter had a muuuuuuch more ridiculous chain of scaling and we don't even give it a 50x gap). Heck, use Unineko Cthulhu Mythos, or Masadaverse. You won't find it without feats."

Except we have minimum bases for DB. 40x at least for Super Saiyan, and 10x at least for Kaioken. Here, I'll even do roflstomp ridiculous what the hell levels of lowball.

SSJ = 40x

SSJ2 = 1.1x SSJ

SSJ3 = 1.1x SSJ2

SSG = 1.1x SS3

SSB = 40x SSG or Kaiokenx10 = 10x SSG

Final Tally

SSB = 2129.6x Baseline

Kaiokenx10 = 532.4x Baseline

Kaiokenx20 = 1064.8x Baseline

I am literally guessing that the difference between Super Saiyan 1 and Super Saiyan 2 is 1.1 times. ONE POINT ONE. And I STILL get a number larger than 400x with even the lowest and smallest of guesses.
 
@Akr we shouldn't just assume multipliers, I get your point of course, but I think that should be mentioned.
 
Are you aware of how big a 40x gap is? Put it into perspective. If there was any point where one character was 40x stronger, one good hit and they're dead. No exceptions. Goku vs Frieza? Goku's not getting stomped without SSJ, he's getting one-shot.

Things like this is why we were planning to get rid of multipliers altogether.

@SD. Not only am I not sure why we accepted that in the first place, that's not necessarily a multiplier. And Masadaverse and Digimon both have multipliers. The former has one of a million, the latter has one of a thousand. And neither of them get used.
 
I know we shouldn't, but it just shows that even with the deepest, most stupid and ******** of lowballs, they still exceed the hundreds of times and goes into the thousands of times baseline at minimum. Of course, we don't know the actual multiplier but I am literally assuming that a stomp in DB constitutes a 1.1x difference. Edit: "Are you aware of how big a 40x gap is? Put it into perspective. If there was any point where one character was 40x stronger, one good hit and they're dead."

Goku had to go kaiokenx20 to equal Freeza. Freeza at 100% is double that of his previous state, so 40x multiplier. However, Goku already reached SSJ at that point and due to the power of PIS and probably CIS, allowed Freeza to transform onto an equal playing field. At no point was Freeza in any position to 1-shot if he even wanted to, and Goku was "Too good" to kill Freeza, repeatedly giving him chances to back out and live. So no, the "40x Gap is big" argument doesn't work.

"Things like this is why we were planning to get rid of multipliers altogether."

Except it doesn't go against Dragon Ball at all. Goku in base couldn't fight Gero so he went Super Saiyan before the fight even began, which tosses the "40x gap" logic out of the way. Every other enemy has showed they could fight Super Saiyans so there's virtually no gap. Piccolo's showed that he's capable of fighting on par with Super Saiyans. Explain to me where is the discrepancy?
 
Frieza was holding back up to that point, but yeah, everyone knows that 100% Frieza can probably one shot base Goku, no one was arguing against that.

I'm guessing no context will be provided? Btw, other than All Might, Kars also has a multiplier.
 
Neutral, but things like CM don't help your point cal. There's fodder 1-As infinite infinities above baseline 1-As there, and there's entire races of stuff like that. That's just the start of it. Shub niggurath probably has the most absurd scaling chain ever, which works since it may or may not be comprable to a high 1A.
 
SomebodyData said:
Frieza was holding back up to that point, but yeah, everyone knows that 100% Frieza can probably one shot base Goku, no one was arguing against that.

I'm guessing no context will be provided? Btw, other than All Might, Kars also has a multiplier.
Click to expand...
Not just 100%, because 50% of even 20% would've been capable of it too. SSJ Goku should've one-shot any form of Frieza up until 100%, and he had the mindset to do it.
 
SomebodyData said:
And a multiplier "Has around 100 times the power of Joseph Joestar;", which was on his page too.
Click to expand...
Supporting evidence. Raiden from MGS:R has a multiplier, and it's only considered legit because he has a feat about 10x that amount.
 
SSJ Goku didn't fight any forms of Frieza excluding 100%.
 
So 10%? I'm not sure why this matters? If the argument is incredulity, its fallacious.

You mean like when he let Frieza reach 100%?
 
SomebodyData said:
And a multiplier "Has around 100 times the power of Joseph Joestar;", which was on his page too.
Click to expand...
To be fair he vaporized the flesh of the 8-B while he claimed that and joseph agreed . And endured a "decent miniature" eruption .

Although multipliers fine within my opinion. Even pokemon multipliers cal so have fun with that.
 
I honestly don't see your point right now Cal. You're literally saying "Because they don't 1-shot murder eachother, the difference is not 40x as the gap is too big" while ignoring In-Character actions such as Freeza toying with Goku, Goku wanting to let Freeza live, PIS and/or CIS, and the Mighty Logic of "Massively Holding Back".
 
And because this analogy works so well...

(Before they were upgraded to Relativistic) Pokemon were scaled to .034c from middle forms. You don't need to be more than 1.5x faster to get the +. Yet people like 100% Zygarde, Speed Forme Deoxys, and Mega Mewtwo didn't have the +. Heck, before they were upgraded, freaking Arceus was in the same speed tier of Rayquaza.
 
Are the multipliers still even relevant and are useful? Because looking at the show/manga during super If he isn't SSB there is no indication of him getting a massive upgrade.

I would think he's a safe universe+ at EoS. Multiuniverse high balling.
 
Ah, so I'm assuming this is a multiplier they stated themselves?

There is a very big difference between kaio-ken, a multiplier stated several times, and this, where this is no multiplier involved in the series, just a gap between stats.
 
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