Fairy Tail Upgrade

[Antvasima]

@Alakabamm All right then.

 

[Alakabamm]

http://a.mhcdn.net/store/manga/246/38-447.0/compressed/v014.jpg?v=1438651145

http://a.mhcdn.net/store/manga/246/38-447.0/compressed/v015.jpg?v=1438651145

http://a.mhcdn.net/store/manga/246/38-447.0/compressed/v016.jpg?v=1438651145

It says he put up a barrier to block it but we don't know when the barrier went up. Laxus was also rather high in the sky when he did.

If we are to believe that all of his attacks are at the calculated speed (since this is an attack speed calc, not a reaction calc), then we need to take those things into account.

 

[Shanks_of_the_red_haired_pirates]

Laxus actually used the cloud to ground lightning move throughout the series like he did against Hades or the Tarturus demon so unless somehow someway it suddenly changed then it's not something up to question

 

[RavenSupreme]

from what i remember against hades he traveled down in the light right? how was it against the tartaros demons? any scan for it? i dont remember it

 

[Alakabamm]

What's up to question is how fast August needed to move, not Laxus uses C-G lightning.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

from what i remember against hades he traveled down in the light right? how was it against the tartaros demons? any scan for it? i dont remember it

We don't technically estimate the range of attack Laxus with that? So it would be irrelevant if it was "cloud to ground" lightning?

 

[AidenBrooks999]

What's up to question is how fast August needed to move, not Laxus uses C-G lightning.

If this is Laxus actual combat and reaction speed.. Then Wahl can be scaled (he was able to hit Laxus multiple times) This also applies to DiMaria and Ajeel (although he isn't the strongest) remains comparable in some ways, because, leave him at "Hypersonic+" is just pathetic. And obviously the others Spriggan Zeref FDK Natsu and Human Acno

 

[Alakabamm]

https://embed.gyazo.com/5c85536f460ec36caeac0faa0181a165.png

Scaled scan showing lightning comes from >700m up

http://img.mymanga.me/1100398447675283239298918293.png

In the August pics I posted above you can also barely see it came from above.

 

[Alakabamm]

What's up to question is how fast August needed to move, not Laxus uses C-G lightning.

If this is Laxus actual combat and reaction speed.. Then Wahl can be scaled (he was able to hit Laxus multiple times) This also applies to DiMaria and Ajeel (although he isn't the strongest) remains comparable in some ways, because, leave him at "Hypersonic+" is just pathetic. And obviously the others Spriggan Zeref FDK Natsu and Human Acno

It is not. It is his attack speed. There is a big difference.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

And reactions? Is not only a simple attack, is a controled one

Then Laxus can react to it, and Wahl hit him multiples times

 

[Alakabamm]

No, it is not a reaction speed. Attack speed is not reaction speed. Wahl didn't even react to Laxus' first attack, he could only move his eyes in that timespan.

 

[RavenSupreme]

another thing people have not brought up but actually more hints in the lightning being originated from his body is this picture in the bottom right where you see the "action strokes" which point upwards just before the lightning blast. and his hairs moving upwards as well. right before the blast

http://a.*************/store/manga/246/38-472.0/compressed/u004.jpg?v=1454931124

http://a.*************/store/manga/246/38-472.0/compressed/u005.jpg?v=1454931124

and i rechecked the entire fight. there was never a single cloud shown anywhere.

so we have the drawn marks and his hair which point upwards, no cloud anywhere, and in later clashes high lightning travels from his body to different directions as well...

http://a.*************/store/manga/246/38-472.0/compressed/u007.jpg?v=1454931124

no matter how i try to angle it. i dont see anything which leads to: its clearly cloud to ground - reasoning

 

[Shanks_of_the_red_haired_pirates]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I9iM8H5T1MU

 

[AidenBrooks999]

No, it is not a reaction speed. Attack speed is not reaction speed. Wahl didn't even react to Laxus' first attack, he could only move his eyes in that timespan.

So... the point of this upgrade is...?

Only Attack Speed for Laxus?

 

[Alakabamm]

I don't see the hair thing you are pointing out. Drawn marks mean nothing. His body obviously contains lightning.

 

[Czuczian11]

And what's furthermore rection speed for August - so then for Zeref via powerscaling so then for FDK Natsu. I guess it could also increase Spriggan12 speed as well.

 

[Alakabamm]

No, it is not a reaction speed. Attack speed is not reaction speed. Wahl didn't even react to Laxus' first attack, he could only move his eyes in that timespan.

So... the point of this upgrade is...?
Only Attack Speed for Laxus?

It was made by EternalRage, well known on here for wanking.

However, I think we can use this to calculate speed, just not blatantly use the attack speed as reaction.

 

[RavenSupreme]

Yeha that's it. He radiates lightning. And this blast originated from his body, not a cloud which is nowhere to be seen or indicated. That's the sole problem I have. When we take a look back also at the hades feat there was a big cloud visible too.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

And what's furthermore rection speed for August - so then for Zeref via powerscaling so then for FDK Natsu. I guess it could also increase Spriggan12 speed as well.

Yeah, I said it before: the spriggan (even Ajeel should be in the High Hypersonic+ likes) Zeref, FDK Natsu, Possibly DF Wendy and Human Acno

 

[Alakabamm]

There are way too many times his lightning stretched into the sky to say that, IMO. Natsu's fire doesn't do that, why would Laxus' lightning?

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

the calc seems to be fine


the new upgrade wud be reasonable from what i have seen

(just one thing tho, can someone confirm the male head size thing, cuz from what i have looked at its like 0.57 meters in circumference)

 

[Czuczian11]

By the way about the speed, if happy is Massively Hypersonic ( i am unsure if we have calc about it) shoudn't all exceeds be on same level?

 

[RavenSupreme]

It's a very sensitive topic. Comparing the incidents and naming them similar is not appropriate. In one feat we have a clear visible cloud which is used for laxus Lightning and in this case we do not have anything which remotely resembles a cloud. Something which will result in a clear tier jump should be quantified as best as possible. And we haven't treated lightning blasts which stretch in the sky as MHS previously when nothing indicated it originated not from a cloud

And that's the case for this feat. A lightning blast? Yes. Does it may or may not have originated from laxus body itself and went upwards? Maybe. Does it may or may not have been from a not depicted cloud somewhere? Maybe. Can we compare it to a feat where an actual cloud was shown? No.

There are too many ifs and doubts to my liking to justify a tier jump this massive. As much as it actually should make sense

 

[AidenBrooks999]

It's a very sensitive topic. Comparing the incidents and naming them similar is not appropriate. In one feat we have a clear visible cloud which is used for laxus Lightning and in this case we do not have anything which remotely resembles a cloud. Something which will result in a clear tier jump should be quantified as best as possible. And we haven't treated lightning blasts which stretch in the sky as MHS previously when nothing indicated it originated not from a cloud
And that's the case for this feat. A lightning blast? Yes. Does it may or may not have originated from laxus body itself and went upwards? Maybe. Does it may or may not have been from a not depicted cloud somewhere? Maybe. Can we compare it to a feat where an actual cloud was shown? No.

There are too many ifs and doubts to my liking to justify a tier jump this massive. As much as it actually should make sense

They didn't technically estimate/calculated the range of attack of Laxus' Lightning with that? So it would be irrelevant if it was "cloud to ground" lightning?

 

[RavenSupreme]

It's a very sensitive topic. Comparing the incidents and naming them similar is not appropriate. In one feat we have a clear visible cloud which is used for laxus Lightning and in this case we do not have anything which remotely resembles a cloud. Something which will result in a clear tier jump should be quantified as best as possible. And we haven't treated lightning blasts which stretch in the sky as MHS previously when nothing indicated it originated not from a cloud
And that's the case for this feat. A lightning blast? Yes. Does it may or may not have originated from laxus body itself and went upwards? Maybe. Does it may or may not have been from a not depicted cloud somewhere? Maybe. Can we compare it to a feat where an actual cloud was shown? No.

There are too many ifs and doubts to my liking to justify a tier jump this massive. As much as it actually should make sense

They didn't technically estimate/calculated the range of attack of Laxus' Lightning with that? So it would be irrelevant if it was "cloud to ground" lightning?

they did. they used a value of 1000 meter (distance) in a certain amount if time (T) to get the resulting speed

 

[AidenBrooks999]

So.... The problem with the calc is...?

 

[RavenSupreme]

where did they get the 1000 meter distance from?

 

[Alakabamm]

The speed was calculated by very clearly supersonic bullets. That is not iffy at all.

The distance is an assumption, but it is a fine one and is also more than half of typical cloud height in the first place. Laxus' lightning - in many different examples - easily comes from a height of 700m above the ground.

My problem with this is the scaling suggested by the OP. We cannot scale this to reaction speed. The only stat this counts for is Laxus' attack speed until we do some sort of derivative calc for August.

That's my opinion and I have posted at least six scans to show it.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

where did they get the 1000 meter distance from?

First it was an assumption.. then was because Laxus has made it distance of roughly 800m

 

[DontTalk]

So before I read through the discussion about this let me just say something the the calc as we have it, using the assumptions given.

When the bullet is scaled he scales the distance from the POV is subtracted from the total distance. That isn't correct, the distance between laxus and the bullets in that panel is what has to be subtracted.

For one thing I believe he has used 9 cm for bullet size instead of 9 mm.

The distance of the bullets I get inputing 0.009m is 0.18235 m.

He already scaled laxus head in that panel sparing me some work.

2*atan(28/(192/tan((70)/2))) = 11.660938368174

Angsizing gives 1.2731 m for distance POV-Bullets

1.2731 m - 0.18235 m = 1.09075 m

15.5111 m - 1.09075 m = 14.42035 m

14.42035 / 609.599837 = 0.0236554361152167

1000/ 0.0236554361152167 = 42273.5812237566652424752 m/s

That is Mach 123.031377252.

So just minorly relevant change.

Assuming that the lightning came from 1km above it would be in the massively Hypersonic range in any case.

Another question is if it should be assumed to be consistently that fast.

 

[RavenSupreme]

i have not questioned the speed of the bullets after reading into the calculation.

but

from what i got the examples where the distance is lightning traveled were with visible clouds involved (hades)

you cant simply "assume" his cloud to ground lighting was calced at distance X and just use the very same distance for another feat where no cloud is even visible and the feat could as well have originated as ground to sky lightning and not vice versa

there is no prove the lightning blast originated from a cloud or the the sky in any height. there is as well no prove the lightning originated from his body and went to the sky. leading us to assumptions.

trying to justify this assumptions with calcs relying on completely different scenarios (where an actual cloud was involved) is - as hard as it sounds - biased and gives the impression of: we overlook the fact that there actually is nothing to prove our result but it "should make sense, so lets do it either way"

the "it should make sense" arguments and assumptions, as logically as they might be are nothing which should operate in a calculation.

i remind everyone to the inuyasha verse where people are stated to have destroyed multiple mountains multiple times, yet they are scaled at town level because the visual depiction does not represent the feat.

and here, it is the same. there is no visual depiction of the result we want it to be.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Fairy Tail is itself only "Hypersonic+" because apparently other profiles if you 're faster than yourself will increase, but you're from FT gain a single "at least"...

 

[Alakabamm]

Raven, I have already addressed the majority of those points and not received a response. I will not respond to the old arguments any further and let my words speak for themself.

However, if you are asking about whether or not the August feat came from the clouds, we do not know that but the similar reactions of Ajeel and Wahl seem to imply that it was at quite the same speed.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Fairy Tail is itself only "Hypersonic+" because apparently other profiles if you 're faster than yourself will increase, but you're from FT gain a single "at least"...

Clearly, you have not seen Bleach's PreTimeSkip.

also don't pull that card, speed doesn't get elevated to higher levels without feats as a standard, it's not that FT is being downplayed, it's just what it is, so you claiming that doesn't rub off well on me and seems fanboyish.

 

[DontTalk]

On the note of scaling it to august:

For one thing consider distance here. Cloud to ground lightning has to pass a huge distance, hence one often doesn't need to be remotely as fast as the lightning itself to react to it. For example dodging a very fast real lightning even just 200 meter away by moving 1 meter would be just Mach 23 and that is far beyond what we see in that panel with august.

To that comes the question wether each and every of laxus lightnings should be assumed to be that fast. In case of august it was more of a lightning explosion, so I would be sceptical to it having the same speed.

 

[RavenSupreme]

Raven, I have already addressed the majority of those points and not received a response. I will not respond to the old arguments any further and let my words speak for themself.
However, if you are asking about whether or not the August feat came from the clouds, we do not know that but the similar reactions of Ajeel and Wahl seem to imply that it was at quite the same speed.

can you pinpoint me to or give me a quick overview how you have adressed these points? especially if or if not the attack originated from a cloud or not is actually all what is necessary to move a lot further in the discussion

its not clear wheter the august feat came from a cloud or not. and i have the same doubt here. also there is no link between a facial reaction/expression and a quantifiable speed to me

 

[Alakabamm]

@DontTalk

Do you think that if we figured out how far August moved (from at least camera distance away from Ajeel to within a certain camera distance in the next panel) and used the time the lightning would take to hit Ajeel (just 1000m/the speed for consistency sake), would that constitute a good way to find the new speed?

 

[AidenBrooks999]

On the note of scaling it to august:
For one thing consider distance here. Cloud to ground lightning has to pass a huge distance, hence one often doesn't need to be remotely as fast as the lightning itself to react to it. For example dodging a very fast real lightning even just 200 meter away by moving 1 meter would be just Mach 23 and that is far beyond what we see in that panel with august.

To that comes the question wether each and every of laxus lightnings should be assumed to be that fast. In case of august it was more of a lightning explosion, so I would be sceptical to it having the same speed.

Actually August doesnt move (well, he moved, but it was after the attack), he reacted and created a barrier/shield

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Fairy Tail is itself only "Hypersonic+" because apparently other profiles if you 're faster than yourself will increase, but you're from FT gain a single "at least"...

Clearly, you have not seen Bleach's PreTimeSkip.
also don't pull that card, speed doesn't get elevated to higher levels without feats as a standard, it's not that FT is being downplayed, it's just what it is, so you claiming that doesn't rub off well on me and seems fanboyish.

I dont play like a fanboy... and whats has Bleach to do in a FT thread?

I kinda like the verse power and everything, but i dont see the relation between FT and Bleach

 

[Illuminati478]

the calc is fine, beyond that i don't really know FT enough to say who's scalable...