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Fans seem split on the punch Superman pulled on Forger

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UsernameMan12

UsernameMan12

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On one hand a lot of fans thought the build up and the family emotion behind the punch was great and the other half is very upset, calling it complete bullshit and an outlier. Power level wise it's pretty exciting and makes sense to me, and story wise I also thought the build up was good.
 
For me the story and writing are always more important than whether a good feat happens or not, and in this case I thought the writing was spectacular. It was quintessential Superman, and Jimenez' manga-inspired artwork took it to the next level.
 
PrinceOfTheMorning said:
For me the story and writing are always more important than whether a good feat happens or not, and in this case I thought the writing was spectacular. It was quintessential Superman, and Jimenez' manga-inspired artwork took it to the next level.
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I agree, it was a beautiful scene. A lot of battleboards are saying it's bullshit writing and a bullshit feat. Which doesnt make sense because Superman has always been doing crazy feats to save the day
 
They either have poor memory or poor reading skills. Saying it's BS when Superman was very clearly amped is just stupid.
 
LordUrien935 said:
They either have poor memory or poor reading skills. Saying it's BS when Superman was very clearly amped is just stupid.
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I guess they're upset because Superman KO'd a multiversal being, amped or not they probably think it's DeathBattle tier writing. Which is where I disagree.
 
Yep, why can't people just appreciate Superman being awesome. If it was anyone else pulling this off it wouldn't be half as good.
 
He didn't destroyed 52 universes, he broke the device which was meant to forge the new multiverse. He should scale from Forger himself who's unknown Tier at present
 
JackJoyce said:
He didn't destroyed 52 universes, he broke the device which was meant to forge the new multiverse. He should scale from Forger himself who's unknown Tier at present
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He broke Forger's masterpiece (aka the multiverse that Forger intended to replace the current multiverse with), you can see it in the background. Forger is also a 6D cosmic being. It's a powerful ass punch for sure (defying imagination (which is the 5th dimension) and physics).
 
"Despite knocking over the World Forger, sundipped Superman's actual feat only involved destroying a small multiverse, so please do not use the feat to try to upgrade him to 2-A or higher."

This is the justification for Superman being only 2-C. I know Matt was talking about upgrading him to 2-A but I'm not sure when that's gonna happen. If it does go through, Prime One Million also needs some upgrading.
 
It was a good written story, but i can't remember the last time i saw a worse outlier. Flying through just 6 suns shouldn't even make Superman multi-galactical, let alone multiversal.
 
Master Hykardion said:
It was a good written story, but i can't remember the last time i saw a worse outlier. Flying through just 6 suns shouldn't even make Superman multi-galactical, let alone multiversal.
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But we've never seen Superman sundip this much before, he's done it very rarely, last time I can recall was OWAW and that was only one sun. Here it was also much more than a few suns.
 
UsernameMan12 said:
Master Hykardion said:
It was a good written story, but i can't remember the last time i saw a worse outlier. Flying through just 6 suns shouldn't even make Superman multi-galactical, let alone multiversal.
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But we've never seen Superman sundip this much before, he's done it very rarely, last time I can recall was OWAW and that was only one sun. Here it was also much more than a few suns.
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It were still just 6 sun if i remember correctly, and the gap between regular Superman and multiversal is just way too enormous to get justified by that. Give him somehow the powers of some Sub-Ubergod and we could talk, but Superman reaching multiversal levels just with more sun-dipping than usually is a clear outlier if i ever saw one.
 
It was never stated to be 6 suns. With that much power, it's very possible that Superman went through countless millions of suns.
 
Just read through the issue again, and Clark's seeing a lot more than 6 suns. Looks like an entire galaxies' worth of stars.
 
Yeah it was a biiiiiit more than 6 suns, he'll there are at least 50+ dots on that page alone, let alone an entire galaxy as mentioned

This also scales from Rebirth, who did once state he could destroy the Phantom Zone in its entirety if he really felt like it. So in that context a power up effecting him this much isn't unprecedented.

Either way it's up to staff and if they just want 2-C im not complaining.
 
UsernameMan12 said:
He broke Forger's masterpiece (aka the multiverse that Forger intended to replace the current multiverse with), you can see it in the background. Forger is also a 6D cosmic being. It's a powerful ass punch for sure (defying imagination (which is the 5th dimension) and physics).
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He broke the device which was meant to forge the new multiverse. It's not 2-C for the same reason destroying a nuclear bomb isn't a 7-B feat
 
I mean if the writer said he destroyed the multiverse then he really did. It's a ludicrous feat tbh compared to his normal standards. I completely disagree about scaling SPOM to him however. He's completely featless and achieved his power in a different way.
 
I mean it is a ludicrous feat but it was a ludicrous amount of stars he absorbed and he was clearly more powerful than ever before.

Also SP1M scales because he's the canonical future version of Superman with DC 1 Million still being a canon event, even in rebirth, he also achieved his power from traveling the universe and absorbing solar energy for 83,000 years (15,000 of which was in our Sun, which became a Super Sun just from his presence) and because it's mentioned in DC 1 Million that he had achieved a power "far greater than any meta human had ever achieved before" which would include himself with that Sun Dip.

Either way him being stronger than him isn't out of the question. Hell Kal Kent is basically a pastiche of PC Superman and he's exponentially weaker than SP1M.
 
Jared1111 said:
Also SP1M scales because he's the canonical future version of Superman with DC 1 Million still being a canon event, even in rebirth, he also achieved his power from traveling the universe and absorbing solar energy for 83,000 years (15,000 of which was in our Sun, which became a Super Sun just from his presence) and because it's mentioned in DC 1 Million that he had achieved a power "far greater than any meta human had ever achieved before" which would include himself with that Sun Dip.

Either way him being stronger than him isn't out of the question. Hell Kal Kent is basically a pastiche of PC Superman and he's exponentially weaker than SP1M.
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LMFAO that statement is like 20 years old and it has no meaning now. You can't backscale everyone like that. Also how would you know 15000 years worth of sundipping has the same result as absorbing a countless amount of stars in the universe?
 
I'm more talking about the additional 70,000+ years of unknown exposure he's had, especially seeing that it showed him being far stronger than he was before. That plus additional powers he gained across that period of time is substantial. Post-Flashpoint got those powers over a period of a few hours of solar absorption at best, not completely out of the question for a guy travelling the universe and fighting "evil gods" to gain that much energy as well.

Plus, i think backscaling is fine as long it line up with continuity, and not having any real feats doesn't automatically mean he's weaker. Besides, SP1M is considered by WoG to still be the strongest metahuman ever so the text is still considered true.
 
Jared1111 said:
I'm more talking about the additional 70,000+ years of unknown exposure he's had, especially seeing that it showed him being far stronger than he was before. That plus additional powers he gained across that period of time is substantial. Post-Flashpoint got those powers over a period of a few hours of solar absorption at best, not completely out of the question for a guy travelling the universe and fighting "evil gods" to gain that much energy as well.
Plus, i think backscaling is fine as long it line up with continuity, and not having any real feats doesn't automatically mean he's weaker. Besides, SP1M is considered by WoG to still be the strongest metahuman ever so the text is still considered true.
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That's a bold statement. I wonder where that places SP1M, considering regular Superman is already above a lot of metahumans.
 
JackJoyce said:
Except he didn't gained any new powers other than probably Portal Creation. He couldn't even stop the destruction of Atom's universe. Since when casual Twitter conversations are considered as proof? Being the strongest metahuman means he has to be above Spectre and even Strange Visitor
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So? New 52 Superman failed to save an exploding planet, does that make him weaker than planetary? The collapse was clearly too fast to an unknown degree, otherwise Superman implied he could have stopped it.
 
I mean we haven't seen any new abilities that doesn't mean he doesn't have them. And like Username said, he didn't say he couldn't save Atoms universe, it merely means he didn't have time. If anything it implies he could given the chance.

The twitter conversation counts because not only does it just respecify what the text already said, but it was directly from one of the main editors of that book. He sounds 100% sure and Grant Morrison has never said anything to contradict it, nor does the story contradict it. So i see no reason why it doesnt count

Also he specified he didn't consider the Spectre or 5D imps as strictly "meta humans"
 
Strange Visitor wasn't a 5D imp. Even if the editor stated SPOM is the strongest metahuman ever it's a old statement. That's like saying MUI Goku from TOP is the strongest form of Goku we'll ever see because the writer said so
 
Strange Visitor is basically an older SP1M if you want to get technical, being billions of years older. Also he's a what if character, as opposed to SP1M who is still technically considered canon. So the meta human comment really only applies to the Post-Crisis/Rebirth Earth timeline.

And that's a bad comparison, it be like if a version of Goku from 15,000 years in the feature was considered by Toriyama to be the strongest Goku ever in both text and official statements. I mean it's so far into the future and the character clearly would be more powerful than any version of the character from the past, so it only seems logical for him being the strongest.
 
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