mgk some abilities

[Wesker018]

Hi, here i'll be proposing some abilities for Maou gakuin:

General
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) For everybody that can affect sources(concept):

Mind Manipulation & Soul Manipulation (One's Soul and Psyche/mind exists within one's abyss of existence, but the Source exists even deeper, so naturally if one has to reach upto someone's Source they would have to pass the depth of even the soul and mind itself, Because of this, anyone who can reach the Source should also be capable of using soul and mind-related abilities, just like other characters in the verse)

2) Missing ability for Ceris, Graham, Sasha, Aisha and Avos Dilhevia:

Information Manipulation (Type 2: <Vebdoz> worked against Revalschend, whose source is traces. Traces are data/information and everything in the world have traces, from past to present. Including physical things, combat experience, past events, memories, beings, world-destroying abilities, concepts, laws, etc. By recreating traces of things, Revalschned can recreate said things. It is also possible to modify the traces/data of the past, thereby changing the past itself)

Note: This ability has already been accepted. In fact, Anos already has it listed on his profile.





Venuzdonoa
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) History erasure:
venuzdonoa already have EE and as you can see in its profile it can destroy order/gods, this would naturally include Order of Time, which is/govern time and history. And should also be capable of replicating Leviangilma's feat, that is, erasing things from history, even WoG confirms its superiority. For this reason Venuzdonoa should have History EE and resistance to it.



2) extra abilities

Creation, Darkness Manipulation & Passive Resurrection(Created different things using shadows. Can passively resurrect its wielder from its own shadow)

Chaos Manipulation (Destroyed the chaos of Divine Scythe of the Disorder)

Resistance to Reality Warping, Chaos Manipulation, Law Manipulation & Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1. Resisted the effects of Bephengzdogma).

Graham
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1)

Order: As we already know, Orders are accepted as Law, Fate, and Concept type 1 because they govern the world, predate it, and make it what it is... yadda yadda yadda (already accepted)

But what does this have to do with Graham?

Well, Graham's source is outside the framework of Order, and trascending the limitations of it, the nothingness that lack even Reason/Logic

So, as you can see his profile he already have NEP, but it's missing some important aspects, the aspects/concept that each order represent.

There are many Orders(Concept, law & fate) in the verse, but the interesting ones for this thread are Order of Time(Govern Time and History), Order of Space, so graham nep should have those aspects too:

Aspects 5 [Other: Logic, Fate, Law, History, Space, Time, Life, Death] and pretty much everything in the verse, but this are the most relevant aspects that came to mind.


EDIT: I ADDED Life and death following the same reasoning above(order).



2)

For his source: Beyond-Dimensional Existence(Type 1; Outside the framework of Order, and transcending its limitations, the true form of his Source(concept) is something that lacks even Reason/Logic. This would naturally include Order of Space and Order of time)

Type 1: Characters who lack spatiotemporal features entirely, while not actually being superior to them in nature. They are simply ontologically different from any dimensional construct, but can ultimately still be comparable to dimension-bound entities in terms of raw power. Due to being aspatial and atemporal, they are obviously immune to conventional Spatial Manipulation and Time Manipulation, and since they are not part of the spacetime continuum, they usually have Acausality (Type 1).

so graham qualifies since his source is literally nothingness outside order(concepts and laws), including order of space and time.






Anos
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) first of all an ability missing in his profile is NEP EE for his source with the aspects mentioned for graham above. The reason is that graham is continuosly being destroyed inside anos source.



2) This is something a lot of people in the verse already have in their profile, but for some reason is missing in Anos' profile:

Power Mimicry(Even lesser skilled magicians are able to copy any spell just by observing it and it is also possible to copy the spell from the same copy of another spell. Ceris admitted that he hadn’t used a certain ability because he knew Anos would have copied it. Anos stole the spell <De Jerias> with his magic eyes when he saw it, and he even amplified it, making it both stronger and easier to use)

3)

Hair Manipulation (Anos can control his hair)

4)RESISTANCES:

anos needs the updated general ability and resistance tab, like shin(already accepted), since he is lacking some resistances


Agree: @Dereck03 @Vietthai96 (everything, except giving mind hax to everybody) @Reiner04

Disagree:

 

[ThienDe01]

The problem with this thread is probably the scans, you should get screenshots from PDF/Word files to increase authenticity. It seems like you're getting scans from some wiki that I can't even tell if it's LN or WN.
You are fast, I am planning to upgrade some of these after vol 10 act 2 comes out in epub

 

[Wesker018]

The problem with this thread is probably the scans, you should get screenshots from PDF/Word files to increase authenticity. It seems like you're getting scans from some wiki that I can't even tell if it's LN or WN.
You are fast, I am planning to upgrade some of these after vol 10 act 2 comes out in epub

most of them are actually scans that are already in the wiki's profile, and all of them are from the LN.

Spoiler: 1

Mind Manipulation & Soul Manipulation (One's Soul and Psyche/mind exists within one's abyss of existence, but the Source exists even deeper, so naturally if one has to reach upto someone's Source they would have to pass the depth of even the soul and mind itself, Because of this, anyone who can reach the Source should also be capable of using soul and mind-related abilities, just like other characters in the verse)

2) Missing ability for Ceris, Graham, Sasha, Aisha and Avos Dilhevia:

Information Manipulation (Type 2: <Vebdoz> worked against Revalschend, whose source is traces. Traces are data/information and everything in the world have traces, from past to present. Including physical things, combat experience, past events, memories, beings, world-destroying abilities, concepts, laws, etc. By recreating traces of things, Revalschned can recreate said things. It is also possible to modify the traces/data of the past, thereby changing the past itself)

Note: This ability has already been accepted. In fact, Anos already has it listed on his profile.

3) Ability that gods already have, but is missing in some other profiles (everybody that can affect the gods)

Physics Manipulation(The World is structured by Order. That is the law of nature, the law of magic-the order that makes the world this world. Altering Order, alters the laws of Physics like Gravity. WOG stated that the Order of the gods are the laws of physics)

All of this use scans that are already in profiles

Spoiler: 2

1) History erasure:
venuzdonoa already have EE and as you can see in its profile it can destroy order/gods, this would naturally include Order of Time, which is/govern time and history. And should also be capable of replicating Leviangilma's feat, that is, erasing things from history, even WoG confirms its superiority. For this reason Venuzdonoa should have History EE and resistance to it.

this one are from the novel too

2) extra abilities

Spoiler: 3

Creation, Darkness Manipulation & Passive Resurrection(Created different things using shadows. Can passively resurrect its wielder from its own shadow)

Chaos Manipulation (Destroyed the chaos of Divine Scythe of the Disorder)

Resistance to Reality Warping, Chaos Manipulation, Law Manipulation & Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1. Resisted the effects of Bephengzdogma).

the reason why the background in this ones look dark is because i screenshot them from a chat but they are from the LN.

Spoiler: 4

Order: As we already know, Orders are accepted as Law, Fate, and Concept type 1 because they govern the world, predate it, and make it what it is... yadda yadda yadda (already accepted)

But what does this have to do with Graham?

Well, Graham's source is outside the framework of Order, and trascending the limitations of it, the nothingness that lack even Reason/Logic

So, as you can see his profile he already have NEP, but it's missing some important aspects, the aspects/concept that each order represent.

There are many Orders(Concept, law & fate) in the verse, but the interesting ones for this thread are Order of Time(Govern Time and History), Order of Space, so graham nep should have those aspects too:

Aspects 5 [Other: Logic, Fate, Law, History, Space, Time] and pretty much everything in the verse, but this are the most relevant aspects that came to mind.


2)

For his source: Beyond-Dimensional Existence(Type 1; Outside the framework of Order, and transcending its limitations, the true form of his Source(concept) is something that lacks even Reason/Logic. This would naturally include Order of Space and Order of time)

Type 1: Characters who lack spatiotemporal features entirely, while not actually being superior to them in nature. They are simply ontologically different from any dimensional construct, but can ultimately still be comparable to dimension-bound entities in terms of raw power. Due to being aspatial and atemporal, they are obviously immune to conventional Spatial Manipulation and Time Manipulation, and since they are not part of the spacetime continuum, they usually have Acausality (Type 1).

so graham qualifies since his source is literally nothingness outside order(concepts and laws), including order of space and time.

all this are from the novel and the scans are already in this wiki's profiles.

Spoiler: 5

1) first of all an ability missing in his profile is NEP EE for his source with the aspects mentioned for graham above. The reason is that graham is continuosly being destroyed inside anos source.



2) This is something a lot of people in the verse already have in their profile, but for some reason is missing in Anos' profile:

Power Mimicry(Even lesser skilled magicians are able to copy any spell just by observing it and it is also possible to copy the spell from the same copy of another spell. Ceris admitted that he hadn’t used a certain ability because he knew Anos would have copied it. Anos stole the spell <De Jerias> with his magic eyes when he saw it, and he even amplified it, making it both stronger and easier to use)

3)

Hair Manipulation (Anos can control his hair)

4)RESISTANCES:

all this are from the novel, even the ones with dark background

 

[DemonKing021]

Looks good to me.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Well makes sense I guess.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Ability that gods already have, but is missing in some other profiles (everybody that can affect the gods)

No

 

[Wesker018]

No

huh

Spoiler: edit

after discussing with tatsumi i decided to remove this one:

3) Ability that gods already have, but is missing in some other profiles (those who can destroy order)

Physics Manipulation(The World is structured by Order. That is the law of nature, the law of magic-the order that makes the world this world. Altering Order, alters the laws of Physics like Gravity. WOG stated that the Order of the gods are the laws of physics)

 

[AsterReal]

It looks good.

 

[Vietthai96]

For everybody that can affect sources(concept):

Yeah no, why?, it seem like all the examples are different spells that have different effects being generalized into a single category which is everyone who can touch source can mind and soul hax

Even the source scan separate soul, mind and source individually. Source being deeper doesn't mean you automatically need to pass mind and soul, by this logic you need to go pass physical body first before reaching non-physical parts of your existence

So all and all i disagree with soul and mind hax for everyone

Missing ability for Ceris, Graham, Sasha, Aisha and Avos Dilhevia:

This is fine

Order: As we already know, Orders are accepted as Law, Fate, and Concept type 1

No, Order was accepted as Law and Concept Type 1 only, the fate thing is from Venuzdonoa which can destroy fate and miracle. There is probably a Order of Fate but that is specific order, generally speaking Order isn't Fate

Aspects 5 [Other: Logic, Fate, Law, History, Space, Time]

This is fine however

The rest is fine to me

 

[Wesker018]

Yeah no, why?, it seem like all the examples are different spells that have different effects being generalized into a single category which is everyone who can touch source can mind and soul hax

Even the source scan separate soul, mind and source individually. Source being deeper doesn't mean you automatically need to pass mind and soul, by this logic you need to go pass physical body first before reaching non-physical parts of your existence

So all and all i disagree with soul and mind hax for everyone

no, because in this case, soul mind and source are located within same place/location, Which is the "abyss".

magic eyes let you see into that abyss:

then things like vebdoz let you interact and destroy sources:

It wouldn’t make sense to be able to see, perceive, interact and destroy the Source, which is more fundamental and exists deeper within the Abyss, the same abyss where the soul and mind reside, but then somehow be unable to do the same with the soul and mind

Also my point with the scans/feats of soul is to show that even randoms can interact with soul, thus demostrating that soul related things isn't alien for the verse.

so the point is, if somebody is skilled enough to destroy a source then should naturally be able to destroy a soul.

However even if you dont agree we should give them to everybody that can destroy sources, we should still give it to graham, ceris, anos, since those three can reduce erase the target without leaving nothing left, and well also venuz since is the destructor of anything in existence no matter how eternal, sturdy, infinite...bla bla bla

No, Order was accepted as Law and Concept Type 1 only, the fate thing is from Venuzdonoa which can destroy fate and miracle. There is probably a Order of Fate but that is specific order, generally speaking Order isn't Fate

actually...

Abstract Existence (Type 1; Law, Fate, Concept Type 1; Gods are order itself and nothing more, they are the absolute existence for all who live in the world, they are the laws and concepts of the world and both life and death are governed by the order)

gods/order are indexed as that

 

[ThienDe01]

Order isn't Fate

The "Fate" directly referred to is Order - the aspect that governs the entire world.

“Then remember this: All living beings will fight. That is the order of this world, the logic, the law of nature. It’s fate. No matter how many times you block the door or destroy us, the result will be the same. The door will open once again, and we will march upon you.”

“Everything is decided by fate,” Nosgalia declared. “And now, the Child of God shall be born.”

The bold text below accurately represents the nature of Fate.

“Gods are order. We are absolute existences to all who live in this world. To humans, spirits, and thee demons, we are the law of this world. Your lives follow the circle of life and death according to order. Becoming enraged at the gods is pointless. However, there is nothing more pointless than attempting to strike fear into the heart of a god.”

Nosgalia raised his hands with solemnity. “Allow me to impart knowledge on thine ignorant self. We are not like thee. We harbor no anger, no sadness. Gods are immortal and thus are not living. We cannot feel fear. We exist merely as the logic of this world.”

 

[Wesker018]

The "Fate" directly referred to is Order - the aspect that governs the entire world.


The bold text below accurately represents the nature of Fate.

also this

 

[Vietthai96]

The "Fate" directly referred to is Order - the aspect that governs the entire world.


The bold text below accurately represents the nature of Fate.

also this

Oke i guess

 

[Tatsumi504]

Yeah no, why?, it seem like all the examples are different spells that have different effects being generalized into a single category which is everyone who can touch source can mind and soul hax

Even the source scan separate soul, mind and source individually. Source being deeper doesn't mean you automatically need to pass mind and soul, by this logic you need to go pass physical body first before reaching non-physical parts of your existence

So all and all i disagree with soul and mind hax for everyone

I'm with you on disagreeing with the mind hax part even if it's solely mind destruction. However I'd like to clarify that they do actually affect the mind and soul.
For one, it's already on the profiles that the source is the mind or a mind of its own- since thoughts and emotions originate from it- as the source can be split into 3 states those being the heart (mind and emotions), the vessel/body and magic power, the theoretical (theoretical cause it doesn't happen naturally and is impossible without the right conditions along with the fact that sources are born whole) combination of all 3 of these would form sentient life. They do affect the mind but not in the traditional way so I don't think it's right to give them mind hax.

As for the soul, the statement in the scan describes/ equates the source to the soul and spirit but as something a lot more fundamental that them. This alone to me implies that the characters who can interact with the source can do so to the soul. Furthermore, any adverse changes to the source affect both the soul and body. If the source is harmed, the body's physical condition deteriorates

Ingall resurrected the dead by restoring the soul—or, if one looked into the abyss, the source at the root of one’s magic—that lingered after death. However, Misha’s source had originally been Sasha’s. If I used Ingall after she disappeared, the source used for her resurrection would no longer exist.

“A body and soul cannot remain split forever.”

What should have existed as one had been magically split into two, with a time limit of fifteen years. After those fifteen years, if they did not return to their original state, they wouldn’t be able to stay alive.

To the untrained eye, Ingall affects the soul which once again suggest soul manipulation is a normal phenomenon or occurrence. You could say it's affecting the soul through the nature of the source governing everything about a person but giving that cleaving someone's source in two doesn't cause the body to split, I'm more inclined to believe it's that these characters actually do affect the soul without having to get to it through the source.

Overall the soul isn't deeply explored in the verse not because they lack the ability to affect it or an understanding of it but because the source is what matters. No one would go out of their way to strictly affect only the soul especially when it can easily be reformed from the source. Taking Kanon/Lay as an example, he has 7 sources but not 7 souls. The destruction of a source should lead to the destruction of his soul but he isn't affected by it at all. THis is impossible with no resistance to soul manipulation that or we accept that most characters are walking around with no souls so in the future I'd suggest they also get soul resistance on the level of their CM resistance or we accept that they don't need their soul to stay alive

 

[Vietthai96]

Lay have 7 sources so all his source made his soul, so you need to delete all 7 source, just slightly different from other with 1 source

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

Where's ma physics manip for em Chaos eyes

 

[Tatsumi504]

Lay have 7 sources so all his source made his soul, so you need to delete all 7 source, just slightly different from other with 1 source

But nothing supports this? Lay technically dies each time a source is destroyed. The matter with Sasha and Misha as well as ingall is clear cut soul manipulation though

 

[Dereck03]

I agree with what tatsumi has said.

 

[Vietthai96]

But nothing supports this? Lay technically dies each time a source is destroyed. The matter with Sasha and Misha as well as ingall is clear cut soul manipulation though

Oke i guess

edit: though i probably only agree with Soul hax, Mind hax seem like a stretch to me

 

[Wesker018]

i added new things:

Life and death aspects following the same reasoning than before(order).

and this:

edit: i wanted to propose this too:

Physics Manipulation(The World is structured by Order. That is the law of nature, the law of magic-the order that makes the world this world. Altering Order, alters the laws of Physics like Gravity. WOG stated that the Order of the gods are the laws of physics)

gods already have it, but now i will give it to Mauve eyes and Eyes of chaotic destruction, because both can affect and destroy all gods, including those that are laws of physics.

@Vietthai96 @Dereck03 tell me what u think

 

[Dereck03]

i added new things:

Life and death aspects following the same reasoning than before(order).

and this:



@Vietthai96 @Dereck03 tell me what u think

Straightforward.

 

[Vietthai96]

i added new things:

Life and death aspects following the same reasoning than before(order).

and this:



@Vietthai96 @Dereck03 tell me what u think

Seems oke to me

 

[Reiner04]

OP's proposal seems fine.

 

[Embers_of_Twilight]

Thread still open till this day
Smh

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

It's all useless Breeze fault