One Piece: Building from Shit Foundations, Mid-High - High Tier Value Replacement

[Damage3245]

@TheMonkeMan Please don't bring up future chapter spoilers in a CRT.

Anyway, will be back to this in the morning.

@SnookB; string scaling is being removed.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Perfection

Is the string scaling still valid, or are we relying solely on multipliers again?

You could still use strings but they’re fodder now

 

[DaMonkeMan]

@TheMonkeMan Please don't bring up future chapter spoilers in a CRT.

Anyway, will be back to this in the morning.

@SnookB; string scaling is being removed.

Alright, I'll edit or delete my comment
Also thank god the string scaling was weird/annoying as hell

 

[SnookB]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but without the string scaling it should be:

Doflamingo upscales to Eagle Bazooka which is x2>Base Luffy who scales to 1.89 gigatons. Gear 3 is naturally stronger than the two handed attacks, so that scales to it as well.
Gear 4 Boundman Luffy should scale higher than 7.56 gigatons (x4 Gear base/G2 since they're no longer seperate)
and so should Doflamingo. Can't recall if it's with or without Buso for the latter.
Gear 4 Leo Bazooka should be 15.12 gigatons, and Doflamingo's dura either scales to or downscales from it (since he was conscious after taking it). King Kong Gun just scales unquantifiably higher.

Also thank god the string scaling was weird/annoying as hell

Ironically enough the string scaling for the Black Knight at least useful in seperating G2 and G3. Now Gear 4's strongest in Dressrosa have no rating, just an unknown value over 2 handed attacks

 

[SnookB]

Alternatively, we follow the enies Lobby chain (since it's Luffy exclusive) and scale G2 over base Luffy's two handed attacks to at least seperate base, G2 and G3 by two-handed values minimum each.
Even though there's no multiplier, it should at least be consistent that base<Two-handed<Gear 2<Two-handed/Gear 3<Two-handed.
It'd also seperate gear 4 boundman and snakeman off base and Gear 2 scaling. Otherwise it's just a bunch of unknown 'higher's

 

[Eseseso]

Alternatively, we follow the enies Lobby chain (since it's Luffy exclusive) and scale G2 over base Luffy's two handed attacks to at least seperate base, G2 and G3 by two-handed values minimum each.
Even though there's no multiplier, it should at least be consistent that base<Two-handed<Gear 2<Two-handed/Gear 3<Two-handed.
It'd also seperate gear 4 boundman and snakeman off base and Gear 2 scaling. Otherwise it's just a bunch of unknown 'higher's

YES.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think that would be a good idea. We can't use scaling like that to make up a consistent multiplier for Luffy.

Let's not complicate things and just focus on one topic at a time.

 

[SnookB]

I don't think that would be a good idea. We can't use scaling like that to make up a consistent multiplier for Luffy.

Let's not complicate things and just focus on one topic at a time.

Not really a multiplier necessarily. We know in Enies Lobby that Base Luffy bazooka is weaker than a Gear 2 jet pistol.
That pretty much gives G2 the minimum of x2. It's the same character with the same techniques throughout the story after all, so it should be scaleable to him. If anything it under-complicates a lot and takes out like 3 unknown "higher" ratings as well. G2 is currently the odd one out, so that at least somewhat gives it a proper spot across the board.

Also pretty much only applicable to Dressrosa and Whole Cake, since rarely times where Luffy resorts to two-handed attacks that don't one-shot or are dodged and can't be scaled.

 

[Damage3245]

Still, I think this should be saved for another thread potentially. For now I just want to conclude one topic at a time.

 

[Kachon123]

Idk if I forgot to follow this or if I just stopped getting notifs. Either way, I'm too lazy to read 3 pages, so can someone fill me on what's going on?

 

[SnookB]

Still, I think this should be saved for another thread potentially. For now I just want to conclude one topic at a time.

Alrighty. What about the previous thing? This one

Doflamingo upscales to Eagle Bazooka which is x2>Base Luffy who scales to 1.89 gigatons. Gear 3 is naturally stronger than the two handed attacks, so that scales to it as well.
Gear 4 Boundman Luffy should scale higher than 7.56 gigatons (x4 Gear base/G2 since they're no longer seperate)
and so should Doflamingo. Can't recall if it's with or without Buso for the latter.
Gear 4 Leo Bazooka should be 15.12 gigatons, and Doflamingo's dura either scales to or downscales from it (since he was conscious after taking it). King Kong Gun just scales unquantifiably higher.

Oh, and DJ Sanji should upscale from 3.78 (stronger than eagle bazooka by an unknown amount)

 

[SnookB]

Idk if I forgot to follow this or if I just stopped getting notifs. Either way, I'm too lazy to read 3 pages, so can someone fill me on what's going on?

Just scaling chain stuff so far

 

[Damage3245]

Oh, and DJ Sanji should upscale from 3.78 (stronger than eagle bazooka by an unknown amount)

No dude. Simply being stronger is not enough for everyone and everything to upscale.

I'll go over the list of feats in a couple hours to show that this is not consistent.

 

[Damage3245]

All of Doflamingo's interactions with Luffy's attacks:

1) Doflamingo blocks Luffy's Jet Gatling with an Armament coating. [Gear 2]

2) Doflamingo is injured by Luffy's Red Hawk. [Gear 2 / Haki / Fire]

3) Doflamingo blocks Luffy's Elephant Gun with his Spider Web. [Gear 3 / Haki]

4) Doflamingo dodges Luffy's Hawk Gatling. [Gear 2 / Haki]

5) Doflamingo is knocked down by Luffy's Jet Stamp after being hit by Law's Gamma Knife. [Gear 2 / Haki]

6) Luffy kicks Doflamingo who successfully blocks with his own Haki. [Haki]

7) Luffy kicks Doflamingo again who successfully blocks with his own Haki. [Haki]

8) Luffy kicks Doflamingo a third time and succeeds in getting around his guard, injuring him. [Haki]

9) Luffy punchs Doflamingo in the face, injuring him. [Haki]

10) Luffy kicks Doflamingo in the face, injuring him. [Haki]

11) Doflamingo dodges Luffy's Elephant Bazooka. [Gear 2 / Haki]

12) Doflamingo tanks Luffy's Hawk Whip which knocks his arms down but doesn't visibly injure him. [Gear 2 / Haki]

13) Doflamingo tanks Luffy's Eagle Bazooka, albeit he is sent flying and comments that his attacks don't have weight behind them. [Gear 2 / Haki]

14) Doflamingo clashes evenly with Luffy's kick. [Haki]

15) Doflamingo dodges Luffy's Grizzly Magnum. [Gear 3 / Haki]

16) Doflamingo blocks Luffy's Kong Gun momentarily with his own Haki before being overwhelmed by the compression effect and sent flying. [Gear 4 / Haki]

17) Doflamingo is kicked in the face by Luffy's Rhino Schneider but blocks at the last moment with Haki and is still sent flying. [Gear 4 / Haki]

18) Doflamingo dodges Luffy's initial Culverin. [Gear 4 / Haki]

19) Doflamingo is punched in the face by Luffy's Culverin and sent flying to the ground once more. [Gear 4 / Haki]

20) Doflamingo blocks Luffy's Double Culverin with his awakened strings. [Gear 4 / Haki]

21) Doflamingo is struck by Luffy's Leo Bazooka and sent flying into Flower Hill where he remained near-unconscious for many moments. [Gear 4 / Haki]

22) Doflamingo is finally put down by Luffy's King Kong Gun. [Gear 4 / Haki]

My conclusions from this;

Out of six base attacks sent his way, Doflamingo clashed evenly with one, blocked two of them and was injured by three more.

Out of seven Gear 2 attacks sent his way, Doflamingo dodged one, blocked two of them, tanked two of them and was injured by two more albeit one of those with with durability-negating flames assisting Luffy.

Out of two Gear 3 attacks sent his way, Doflamingo dodged one and blocked the other.

Out of seven Gear 4 attacks sent his way, Doflamingo dodged one, blocked another, and each of the other hits that landed completely overwhelmed him even when he used Haki to amp his defenses. In each case he was sent flying and couldn't contend with any of them.

So, since Doflamingo has been hurt by base Luffy and most of Luffy's Gear 2 attacks have been a threat to him, I wouldn't upscale his durability above 3.78 Gigatons. Let's just leave him at 3.78 Gigatons [High 7-A+] for now.

Gear 3 attacks and above are too much for Doflamingo to handle, and I don't think that the Gamma Knife made a significant difference to Doflamingo's durability when it comes to the hits that Luffy landed on him. The Gamma Knife just targeted his internal organs whereas Luffy managed to his Doflamingo in his face while in base form and injure him.

 

[Eseseso]

All of Doflamingo's interactions with Luffy's attacks:

1) Doflamingo blocks Luffy's Jet Gatling with an Armament coating. [Gear 2]

2) Doflamingo is injured by Luffy's Red Hawk. [Gear 2 / Haki / Fire]

3) Doflamingo blocks Luffy's Elephant Gun with his Spider Web. [Gear 3 / Haki]

4) Doflamingo dodges Luffy's Hawk Gatling. [Gear 2 / Haki]

5) Doflamingo is knocked down by Luffy's Jet Stamp after being hit by Law's Gamma Knife. [Gear 2 / Haki]

6) Luffy kicks Doflamingo who successfully blocks with his own Haki. [Haki]

7) Luffy kicks Doflamingo again who successfully blocks with his own Haki. [Haki]

8) Luffy kicks Doflamingo a third time and succeeds in getting around his guard, injuring him. [Haki]

9) Luffy punchs Doflamingo in the face, injuring him. [Haki]

10) Luffy kicks Doflamingo in the face, injuring him. [Haki]

11) Doflamingo dodges Luffy's Elephant Bazooka. [Gear 2 / Haki]

12) Doflamingo tanks Luffy's Hawk Whip which knocks his arms down but doesn't visibly injure him. [Gear 2 / Haki]

13) Doflamingo tanks Luffy's Eagle Bazooka, albeit he is sent flying and comments that his attacks don't have weight behind them. [Gear 2 / Haki]

14) Doflamingo clashes evenly with Luffy's kick. [Haki]

15) Doflamingo dodges Luffy's Grizzly Magnum. [Gear 3 / Haki]

16) Doflamingo blocks Luffy's Kong Gun momentarily with his own Haki before being overwhelmed by the compression effect and sent flying. [Gear 4 / Haki]

17) Doflamingo is kicked in the face by Luffy's Rhino Schneider but blocks at the last moment with Haki and is still sent flying. [Gear 4 / Haki]

18) Doflamingo dodges Luffy's initial Culverin. [Gear 4 / Haki]

19) Doflamingo is punched in the face by Luffy's Culverin and sent flying to the ground once more. [Gear 4 / Haki]

20) Doflamingo blocks Luffy's Double Culverin with his awakened strings. [Gear 4 / Haki]

21) Doflamingo is struck by Luffy's Leo Bazooka and sent flying into Flower Hill where he remained near-unconscious for many moments. [Gear 4 / Haki]

22) Doflamingo is finally put down by Luffy's King Kong Gun. [Gear 4 / Haki]

My conclusions from this;

Out of six base attacks sent his way, Doflamingo clashed evenly with one, blocked two of them and was injured by three more.

Out of seven Gear 2 attacks sent his way, Doflamingo dodged one, blocked two of them, tanked two of them and was injured by two more albeit one of those with with durability-negating flames assisting Luffy.

Out of two Gear 3 attacks sent his way, Doflamingo dodged one and blocked the other.

Out of seven Gear 4 attacks sent his way, Doflamingo dodged one, blocked another, and each of the other hits that landed completely overwhelmed him even when he used Haki to amp his defenses. In each case he was sent flying and couldn't contend with any of them.

So, since Doflamingo has been hurt by base Luffy and most of Luffy's Gear 2 attacks have been a threat to him, I wouldn't upscale his durability above 3.78 Gigatons. Let's just leave him at 3.78 Gigatons [High 7-A+] for now.

Gear 3 attacks and above are too much for Doflamingo to handle, and I don't think that the Gamma Knife made a significant difference to Doflamingo's durability when it comes to the hits that Luffy landed on him. The Gamma Knife just targeted his internal organs whereas Luffy managed to his Doflamingo in his face while in base form and injure him.

That's fair, but Doffy's Buso durability still downscales from G4 to Baseline 6-C (4.3 gigatons), so Dressrosa Law's AP is the same, so everyone who scales to Base Hawkins and such (like the Base Tobiroppo) remains the same.

 

[Damage3245]

That's fair, but Doffy's Buso durability still downscales from G4 to Baseline 6-C (4.3 gigatons), so Dressrosa Law's AP is the same, so everyone who scales to Base Hawkins and such (like the Base Tobiroppo) remains the same.

Very well, we'll leave that be.

 

[Damage3245]

If the list be adjusted to take this into account, revisions can start.

 

[Eseseso]

If the list be adjusted to take this into account, revisions can start.

Made Base Doffy a High 7-A+ in the newest list, so I think revisions can start.

 

[SnookB]

That's fair, but Doffy's Buso durability still downscales from G4 to Baseline 6-C (4.3 gigatons), so Dressrosa Law's AP is the same, so everyone who scales to Base Hawkins and such (like the Base Tobiroppo) remains the same.

tfw wrote a paragraph response then deleted because I noticed you basically addressed it in two sentences

 

[Damage3245]

That entire exchange is Doflamingo fresh out of taking a gamma knife and his organs are falling apart. WHY are you using that as an anti-feat? It was even before we were shown Doflamingo started sewing his organs back together.

Since when did Gamma Knife lower the durability of Doflamingo's head?

And no, all of those attacks except 1 took place after Doflamingo sewed his organs together.

All of those he still tanked. He was still capable of standing back up and continuing to fight, that's still counted for his durability.

He could keep getting back up thanks to his insane endurance, not pure durability.

If we made Doflamingo equal to Gear 4 then we've got a stupid scaling chain where: Base Luffy ~ Doflamingo ~ Gear 4 Luffy.

If you can say Doflamingo can get hurt by Luffy without base Luffy scaling comparable to him, then Gear 4 Luffy can hurt Doflamingo without Doflamingo scaling comparable to him.

The guy fought Gear 4 for TWENTY MINUTES post-awakening too. His awakened self should scale to it even if his base doesn't. And he did tank Leo Bazooka post-awakening as well, so he should scale to everything Gear 4 when awakened except for King Kong Gun.

Off-screen fighting being the important part. His Awakening hasn't been touched anyway; just base Doflamingo. And no, he was almost completely defeated by Leo Bazooka. He doesn't scale to it.

 

[SnookB]

If you can say Doflamingo can get hurt by Luffy without base Luffy scaling comparable to him, then Gear 4 Luffy can hurt Doflamingo without Doflamingo scaling comparable to him.

That's fair.
The backscaling works for now tbh

 

[Damage3245]

Okay. I'll make a start on the edits tonight when I'm free.

 

[Eseseso]

Okay. I'll make a start on the edits tonight when I'm free.

Thank you, I'm kinda done with this thread after doing 3 massive scaling lists.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Thank you, I'm kinda done with this thread after doing 3 massive scaling lists.

Yo hate to ask, but since you drafted that lovely scaling list, can you draft a replacement for what values people scale to for the AP notes section of the verse page? Something to replace what was the string scaling notes?

 

[Eseseso]

Yo hate to ask, but since you drafted that lovely scaling list, can you draft a replacement for what values people scale to for the AP notes section of the verse page? Something to replace what was the string scaling notes?

I did some edits already to the notes.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I did some edits already to the notes.

 

[Eseseso]

If there's anything I missed, please feel free to add it.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

BTW why does Blackbeard's profile say he has a resistance to fire? I don't think he actually ever made contact without the flames without getting burned or feeling pain, and if he managed to move through them despite the pain that's just an example of endurance ( for example this guy managed to keep his hand in hot ice for a few seconds but still yelled in pain and stuck his hand in his toilet after )

 

[That_moron2]

7.57 gigatons.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I'M SO MAD! NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo

 

[Eseseso]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I'M SO MAD! NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo

?

 

[Damage3245]

Changes for this were made a while ago. Closing this.