Pokemon Tier Adjustment

[CryoTheMayo]

Why do people just seem to assume all pokemon are the same? This is a huge mess of a concept. I've made similar arguments in the past but do people seriously believe that, say, Gine should be treated as strong as Goku because Goku and Gine are both full saiyans that are related? Or should King Vegeta be as strong as Broly? They aren't the same person they are different people that are the same race.

Same deal here. Seriously are there any other Pikachu that even remotely compare to Ash's Pikachu? Pretty sure it has never happened. What about his Charizard? It trained in a valley full of elite Charizard and went from being the runt to holding his own and even defeating the elite Charizard. What about Squirtle and Bulbasaur taking on fully evolved pokemon and legendaries?

Are all of Ash's feats of defeating and matching legendaries in Alola alone all just bloody outliers? No. Poke Balls canonically limit the power of pokemon and there is nothing stating that Ash is fighting the strongest members of their species. We know in the anime there are many copies of the Regi Trio (and this is the case in the games as well) so do you mean to tell me Ash is fighting the SPECIFIC trio that shaped and moved the world that Brandon just HAPPENED to somehow get?

It's all an insane concept to me. Just consider the Grubbin a naturally powerful Grubbin that's a prodigy. It's not hard to do.

 

[Drite77]

I mean, the anime is different from the games, so that Snivy could be a pretty Buff Snivy

 

[DragonEmperor23]

It's because the profiles on this site uses them as a species so that confuses people. Sort of why some people thought we were trying to make all Pikachu's Low 6-B when we upgraded Ash's Pikachu lmao

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Also isn't Paul, Ash's rival in Sinnoh, the person that specifically seeks out the naturally strongest of each pokemon breed? Early on he caught entire flocks of Starly and only kept the absolute best one he could find and used it to fight Ash. He then released it for losing (IIRC). Which outright confirms different members of the same breed have different natural potentials (See IVs) and can develop differently based on training (See EVs).

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I mean, the anime is different from the games, so that Snivy could be a pretty Buff Snivy

Well it knows Grass Tornado from the start so it's probably pretty special. Ash's Pikachu was also heavily drained and unable to use its electricity and IIRC electricity powers Pikachu's attacks (even non-electric-types) so I don't think it's a bad anti-feat.

 

[Drite77]

But Ash itself was heavily nerfed in the BW series, he looked like a godamn beginer there

 

[CryoTheMayo]

It's because the profiles on this site uses them as a species so that confuses people. Sort of why some people thought we were trying to make all Pikachu's Low 6-B when we upgraded Ash's Pikachu lmao

Yeah I think it's stupid. Obviously you can't make keys for EVERY member of the species found in the anime, games and other materials (such as the manga) but I think it could be possible to have different keys for different versions of, say, Darkrai. I'm sure there are people that would be interested in arguing the keys of different versions of their favourite pokemon.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah, for the specific ones that stand out.

 

[GyroNutz]

Our Pokemon profiles are meant to represent the 'peaks' of each species.

I'd appreciate it if this thread didn't derail into talks about Ash and trainer profiles. Though, in my opinion, even considering that Grubbin is a 'natural prodigy' or stronger than usual, I don't think it should be even comparable to Ash's Pikachu.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Our Pokemon profiles are meant to represent the 'peaks' of each species.
I'd appreciate it if this thread didn't derail into talks about Ash and trainer profiles. Though, in my opinion, even considering that Grubbin is a 'natural prodigy' or stronger than usual, I don't think it should be even comparable to Ash's Pikachu.

Cool. But the Darkrai vs Kratos thread illustrated why that's stupid. People spent the entire time arguing different versions of Darkrai when the OP came in and said that it was PMD Darkrai who has completely different feats and variants of Dark Void in comparison to any other Darkrai.

PokePark Darkrai doesn't have PMD Darkrai's feats or vice versa. Nor does Movie Darkrai and Tobias' Darkrai sure as hell isn't comparable to any of those three.

 

[GyroNutz]

Legendary Pokemon are different, as they're generally the ones given more lore and character. Though movie darkrai, PMD darkrai and pokepark darkrai aren't all that different.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Legendary Pokemon are different, as they're generally the ones given more lore and character. Though movie darkrai, PMD darkrai and pokepark darkrai aren't all that different.

One tanked the combined power of Dialga and Palkia and was erased from stopping it. Another was going to merge two worlds into two and a third could put Palkia to sleep with zero effort.

That varies from baseline 2-C to tanking hundreds of millions of times above baseline 2-B to having such ridiculous hax that you can put the God of Space itself to sleep instantly.

Is it really that crazy of an idea to just have a Original | Movie | Pokeworld | Mystery Dungeon set of keys? FFS a Lucario is 2-B for defeating a sleeping Darkrai in some manga and I'm pretty sure that Darkrai has no feats to warrant it as 2-B.

 

[GyroNutz]

Being able to merge two worlds into two isn't an anti-feat for Darkrai's 2-B scaling feats. If anything, it proves that Darkrai has some footing to be considered 2-B, since he already has a tier 2 feat.

Putting Palkia to sleep is a hax feat, Darkrai (albeit a weakened one) was very much scared of a confrontation with Palkia.

That seems unnecessary imo, though this isn't the place to be discussing Darkrai or that 2-B Lucario.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Sure. I wouldn't compare the two seeing as they are, again, completely different Darkrai and I have no reason to think it's above baseline 2-C. Not to mention the feats between the three different Darkrai are of a ridiculous times difference. Is PMD Darkrai even 2-B or 2-C? It has the most ridiculous hax out of any Darkrai with it putting Palkia to sleep with zero indication of it occurring and, like you said, weakened Darkrai was afraid of fighting Palkia. Yet Movie Darkrai could contain and stop the combined energy of enraged Dialga and Palkia which would indicate that it is far more powerful.

I don't think any actual lore or statements would support the 'average' Darkrai as being this absurdly powerful (Games Darkrai and Non-Movie Anime Darkrai) and I think that having separate keys on the profiles would clean them up and make it clearer which ones have which abilities and feats.

But, as you say, this thread isn't concerned with this argument so I will drop it for now.

 

[GyroNutz]

Well the changes have been done now, so someone can close this thread

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

So that's make Jiraiya vs Gard can't be added because Mega Gard is High 7-A now, RIP in pepperoni.

And she gain some of lose against Kirishima and Sigurd....what have i done? ;-;

 

[GyroNutz]

Depends, the AP gap might not be one-shot worthy. The megas aren't too far into High 7-A

 

[Dragopentling]

Are they baseline High 7A or just middle ground?

 

[GyroNutz]

middle ground