Weaponry in Pokemon World calculations, Part 3?

[User_A_98732165489]

This is third attempt to directly compare Humans and Pokemon power-wise, both by themselves and with weapons/armor. This time, no chained calculations. You can see my previous attempts there and there [https://vsbattles.com/threads/weaponry-in-pokemon-world-calculations.184742/] [https://vsbattles.com/threads/weaponry-in-pokemon-world-calculations-part-2.184767/].

There are 2 incidents used as base for our comparison:

• [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Weaponry_in_the_Pokémon_world] [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/EP054] EP054 "The Case of the K-9 Caper!". Ash's Pikachu was scared of Colt M1911 pointed in his direction. This does mean that M1911 can hurt Ash's Pikachu - since Pokemon tend to ignore or scoff at things too weak to harm them.
• [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Marowak_(ghost)] [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/PO02] Pokemon Origins File 2 "Cubone". Team Rocket Grunt killed (yes, killed outright, not "fainted") a Marowak (Cubone's mother) with a telescopic baton (it looks too flimsy to call it a "stun baton"). This was played seriously for drama, so it's not slapstick part.

As such, Humans can damage Pokemon directly, therefore scaling off them. This would influence attack power and speed; for unarmed attacks or attacks with weak melee weapons, it also influences striking power and durability (vie Newton's Third Law). Since Team Rocket Grunts don't have any special training, being Pokemon universe's equivalent of average adult humans - all other adult humans power-scale from it.

However, underage characters don't power-scale from this - as they're obviously weaker than adults. Theoretically, if adult humans are equivalent to 3rd-evolution Pokemon - then underage humans, depending on their age, would likely be equivalent to 1rd or 2nd evolution Pokemon - though this requires a separate set of calculations, which we may do later.

[https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Pikachu_(Anime)] [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Marowak] So we have Ash's Pikachu with "Original Series-Best Wishes Series" key and Marowak with "Marowak" key. Ash's Pikachu has Large Mountain level+ durability, while Marowak has Island level durability; both have FTL speed. As such, attacks must be that strong and that fast to connect and harm them.

This also assumes that telescopic stun baton is closer to Millwall Brick than to Crowbar [un]robustness-wise - and therefore, being only one tad better than unarmed strikes. I assume that it's closer to Millwall Brick; it's Stun baton, it's originally designed to be non-lethal, it's simply not built to shatter skulls and break bones. Even if it isn't, the hand still has to endure the energy via Newton's Third Law.

All this is further supported by numerous cases of Humans surviving getting hit by Pokemon. Some are jokes, some aren't; but that does serve as proof that Pokemon humans are absurdly tough.

TELESCOPIC STUN BATON INCIDENT SUMMARY (NO CALC STACKING)
Pokemon universe's average human attack potency: Island level (scales off Marowak)
Pokemon universe's average human striking strength: Island level (scales off Marowak)
Pokemon universe's average human durability: Likely Island level (scales off human's own striking strength via Newton's Third Law; partially depends on whether or not the telescopic stun baton is as flimsy as Millwall Brick)
Pokemon universe's average human speed: FTL (scales off Marowak)
Pokemon universe's average human is comparable to 3rd-evolution Pokemon in power.

M1911 INCIDENT SUMMARY (NO CALC STACKING)
Pokemon universe's Colt M1911 attack potency: At Least Large Mountain level+ (scales off Ash's Pikachu), Likely Island level (shouldn't be weaker than telescopic stun baton), Possibly even higher.
Pokemon universe's Colt M1911 speed: At least FTL (scales off Ash's Pikachu), Likely Higher (should be faster than strikes with telescopic stun baton)
Pokemon universe's average human with handgun-proof ballistic vest durability: At Least Large Mountain level+ (can take hits from Colt M1911), Likely Island level (should be tougher than same human naked), Possibly even higher.
Pokemon universe's Colt M1911 can definitely harm 2nd-evolution Pokemon - but likely could harm 3rd-evolution Pokemon as well.

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x1

 

[Jinx666]

Literally just stick to FC/OC Wiki with this, this scaling does not work here and this isn't a character.

 

[User_A_98732165489]

Jinx666 reply:​

1) "Literally just stick to FC/OC Wiki with this". This is not an original character; this is calculations for official characters.

2) "this scaling does not work here". Why scaling shouldn't work there? I didn't use chained calculations, so what's wrong now?

Just don't repeat things you said earlier, i did read them: [https://vsbattles.com/threads/weaponry-in-pokemon-world-calculations.184742/]. Answers for those old arguments are:

• "The verse is widely inconsistent and the actual use of realistic firearms are a very dated (and removed) concept in the verse.", "Pokemon is just inconsistent", "the fact that Pokemon literally doesnt use them anymore and that theyre a thing of the past, with episodes even being banned including them.", "that means that Pokemon do not want to use or associate their product with real guns anymore, so its pulled from canon and becomes a non factor", "its just the logic of it being wrong on something thats outdated and banned in the series. And its kinda obvious why, so idk what this is meant to show" - Just because it's dated, doesn't mean it's non-canon; verse is inconsistent but other calculating guys overcame it.
• "common sense can also be applied when saying that regular weaponry used from early-Pokemon arent tiered to Pokemon." - Pokemon universe doesn't work on common sense.
• "and they dont care about powerscaling implications." - but VsBattles does.
• "Yeah, and those are direct feats showing to the humans and slapstick nature of the verse. We're not applying that to the old showings of real fire-arms. Those arent the cool/funny parts." - not exactly. The part about Team Rocket Grunt killing Marowak is played for drama, not for slapstick. But in fact, it's the slapstick parts which are more absurd or wrong, as they're often exaggerated a lot. So we should consider both slapstick and non-slapstick parts.
• "I mean i wouldn't know the calc side of things to whatever this wiki's standards", "I already said idk about the validity of the calculations" - i'm a novice too, and i would want to hear explanations about validity of my calculations.

I also did read the old arguments from other guys in second attempt [https://vsbattles.com/threads/weaponry-in-pokemon-world-calculations-part-2.184767/]:

• TheGatememer-"This would be Calc Stacking, which isn't allowed, unfortunately.", Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera-"I think you shouldn't focus on calcs and just use the normal feats that the weapons actually show.". - That error is fixed. Now i don't use any chained calculations in my 3rd attempt of calculation - removing the most glaring flaw of previous 2 attempts. Instead of using chained calculation, i focus on actual feats showed in anime.
• Random-Helper323-"The page calls it a stun baton, and the anime is known for weird inconsistencies, so this could have some problems." - Well, that may be a small setback at most. But we'll overcome that. Especially since, either way, club is a club, so margin of error shouldn't be terribly large.

3) "this isn't a character". This is a character. In fact, the "Telescopic Stun Baton Incident" values apply to every human adult in Pokemon universe; and at the very least, it applies to Team Rocket members (e.g. Grunts, Team Rocket Trio, Jiovanni, etc), maybe to other Evil Teams as well. The "M1911 Incident" data may be used later somewhere, but now it's used for statistics - since if you have multiple Feats which end up with comparable results, it works as proof that calculations/approximations were correct.

 

[Jinx666]

I honestly don't know what to tell you anymore, there is no 'Pokemon gunner' and this isn't the way things are scaled. You dont need to keep spamming CRTs

 

[User_A_98732165489]

Jinx666, replying​

"I honestly don't know what to tell you anymore, there is no 'Pokemon gunner' and this isn't the way things are scaled. You dont need to keep spamming CRTs". I am not talking about "Pokemon gunner" - i am talking about stats applicable to any adult human in Pokemon universe (with baton incident). Gun incident data is just for "Look, it's not the only comparable Feat, so it's not an Outlier.".

And besides, what should be the correct way to scale things in your opinion? If it doesn't work on "Character A can hurt Character B" principle, then how it works at all? So maybe i could correctly scale something in the future, if i knew how to do it in the first place?

And also, could someone other than Jinx666 explain why and what i did wrong in my calculations?

 

[Jinx666]

Trying to scale real weaponry to Pokemon logic just isnt how it works. Unfollowing.

You're better off directly asking a calc member instead of making multiple threads

 

[User_A_98732165489]

"Trying to scale real weaponry to Pokemon logic just isnt how it works." Then how it works, i could ask? Besides, Humans and Pokemon are fundamentally not that different, there's even information about Humans and Pokemon interbreeding in very ancient times; so scaling Pokemon and Human Melee Weapons/Unarmed Attacks to each-other should work not unlike scaling Pokemon and Pokemon to each-other.

Like, if you do know how it works, why don't explain it to me so i wouldn't do errors next time? And if you don't know how it works, then why you think you're more correct than me?

"You're better off directly asking a calc member instead of making multiple threads" Which calc member i should ask?

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x1

Finally figured out how to use Tags.

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x2

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x3

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x4

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x5

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x6

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x7

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x8

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x9

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x10

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x11

 

[User_A_98732165489]

[https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ling_(Weaponry_in_Pokemon_World_calculations)]

Okay. Now i'm making new and improved versions, with roughly 59 to 76 feats (17 Attack Potency/Striking Strenght, 27 pure Durability, 15 Speed, 44 Attack Potency + Durability) used to powerscale Humans and Pokemon to one-another. Surprisingly - my previous, somewhat inaccurate approximations actually fit into average values of this massive research table.

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x12