Post TS Subaru vs Makima(Chainsaw Man)

[CyborgSakumo]

We're using post timeskip Subaru vs Makima from Chainsaw Man.

No restrictions, speed unequal.

You never thought this matchup would happen.

Subaru:

Makima:

Inconc:

I thought this could be fun

 

[Jamesthetaker]

I heard that Makima have some kind of conceptual mind hax stuff but i don't know if this true or not.

How good is Subaru's resistance to mind hax though?

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Subaru's mind manip resistance is good but not invincible, he get's it from resisting the white whale which manipulated several 100 people at once. Makima doesn't have any feats to show me she could bypass his resistance(that I'm remembering comment if I'm wrong here.) However, his partner doesn't have resistances so she could potentially be controlled which would severely handicap, if she didn't decide to immediately kill him right after which would restart the world.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Makima alway start with mind hax because she perceive everything as lower than her. Subaru cannot harm her and Beatrice doesn't resist mind hax.

Not voting yet but i feel like this is a stomp.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Makima alway start with mind hax because she perceive everything as lower than her. Subaru cannot harm her and Beatrice doesn't resist mind hax.

Not voting yet but i feel like this is a stomp.

You may not be familiar with this verse, so to explain why this isn't a stomp RBD means that if makima kills subaru(which would definitely happen) the world restarts over and the its starts over from the beginning only subaru is aware of the time leap, so if makima mind manips Beatrice and kills subaru the battle would restart.

Also to note, Makima does not perceive everything to be lower than herself and there are several characters she has not attempted mind manip while in combat with them even if they were weaker than her (Kisabe, Power, Random Public Safety Officers). Considering Beatrice is comparable in power to her, it's arguable she would be capable of mind maniping her.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

I do know about Subaru's ability. The problem is that his immortality doesn't alway bring him back to a necessary point of time. Even if did, how would Subaru figure out a way to defeat her?

Beatrice would be mindhaxxed the moment the battle begin and Makima would command her to kills Subaru, while Subaru is too weak to stop her.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

I do know about Subaru's ability. The problem is that his immortality doesn't alway bring him back to a necessary point of time. Even if did, how would Subaru figure out a way to defeat her?

Beatrice would be mindhaxxed the moment the battle begin and Makima would command her to kills Subaru. While Subaru is too weak physically to stop her.

During vs battles it's generally assumed his rbd is set up at the start of the battle, and considering this note (

Makima does not perceive everything to be lower than herself and there are several characters she has not attempted mind manip while in combat with them even if they were weaker than her (Kisabe, Power, Random Public Safety Officers). Considering Beatrice is comparable in power to her, it's arguable she would be capable of manipulating her.) Actually, she's never attempted to control another character in combat in the course of the series she always leads with finger gun or another devil's powers.

it's not fair to say Makima instantly tries control even though there are several instances where she doesn't do it to the opponent, and even if she kept killing him over and over again in an endless loop that would be inconclusive not a win for makima as she would need some other way of incapacitating Subaru.

Also Beatrice blitzes makima so between the two of them she gets first attack.

 

[Excaliburhuman]

Makima does not perceive everything to be lower than herself and there are several characters she has not attempted mind manip while in combat with them even if they were weaker than her (Kisabe, Power, Random Public Safety Officers). Considering Beatrice is comparable in power to her, it's arguable she would be capable of manipulating her.)

This completely goes against what Makima is as a character. As explained by Pochita Makima/the control devil just want some one who she can view as equal. If she really did not view Kishibe, Power, and random officers as lower than her, then the how story wouldn't have happened. If she viewed them as equals then there is no reason for her to bother with Chainsaw man and if she views them as higher than her then she would treat them like she treated chainsaw man and go after them as they are much easier to deal with. She most likely didn't control because she did not need to or them not being controlled helps with her plan of getting chainsaw man. She also have taken control of people who are comparable or even stronger than her (the weapon devil hybrid guys.) Her starting move would most likely be her finger guns or having the angle devil to create a weapon. I don't know enough about Subaru/Beatrice to give a vote though.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Figuratively speaking, Makima views everthing as below her it's not about being stronger or weaker but respect, hence the name Control Demon.

Darkness Demon is physically stronger and even kills her few times yet she is unfazed by this.

The only reason she doesn't use mind hax is because she has a bigger plan for it, in this case, neither of them wasn't so they would get mindhaxxed.

There is her immortality too which neither of them could bypass, Beatrice would get first attack but there is nothing after that.

If Subaru cannot do aything to her then this is a stomp, a fair match happened when both characters have chance to win. At best, this would be an Incon but Makima could use Beatrice to incap him.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Figuratively speaking, Makima views everthing as below her it's not about being stronger or weaker but respect, hence the name Control Demon.

Darkness Demon is physically stronger and even kills her few times yet she is unfazed by this.

The only reason she doesn't use mind hax is because she has a bigger plan for it, in this case, neither of them wasn't so they would get mindhaxxed.

There is her immortality too which neither of them could bypass, Beatrice would get first attack but there nothing after that.

If Subaru cannot do aything to her then this is a stomp, a fair match happened when both characters have chance to win. At best, this would be an Incon but like i said above, RBD doesn't alway bring him to the necessary point of time.

Beatrice has several ways of taking out makima , mind manipulation , BFRing her to another dimension, spatial manipulation,time manip etc. If she controls and kills subaru, subaru can RBD and simply ask Beatrice to send her to another dimension and Beatrice would be first as she's faster.

RBD is always assumed in vs battle to bring him to beginning of the match, this is the standard.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Does she even use them first in-character? Can Subaru command her faster than mind hax?

 

[CyborgSakumo]

In character, she typically uses time stopped arrows first which freeze the time of the person.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

The video link is broken.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

The only examples of seeing makima using mind hax on screen has been through verbal commands(EX:Makima commanding Aki into a contract) so subaru could command makima faster(given an infinite number of tries at least.)

 

[CyborgSakumo]

The video link is broken.

Try it again.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Since when Makima can only control through verbal command? She attempt to control Power without it (although the latter did resist it)

Subaru won't have infinite chances if Makima can control faster than Subaru can talk. The chance for her to command Beatrice to incap him is more likely.

Actually, let look at what Subaru/Beatrice could do:

BFR doesn't work because Makima have dimensional travel.

Mind manipulation doesn't seem be an offensive ability from what i've seen, neither is spatial manipulation.

Time manipulation is good but she isn't aware of Makima ability so she would try to kills her.

Subaru only have Athletic Human speed so he cannot command Beatrice faster than Makima thought.

On top of that Beatrice doesn't resist mind hax which is the crucial point.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Since when Makima can only control through verbal command? She attempt to control Power without it (although the latter did resist it)

Subaru won't have infinite chances if Makima can control faster than Subaru can talk. The chance for her to command Beatrice to incap him is more likely.

Actually, let look at what Subaru/Beatrice could do:

BFR doesn't work because Makima have dimensional travel.

Mind manipulation doesn't seem be an offensive ability from what i've seen, neither is spatial manipulation.

Time manipulation is good but she isn't aware of Makima ability so she would try to kills her.

Subaru only have Athletic Human speed so he cannot command Beatrice faster than Makima thought.

On top of that Beatrice doesn't resist mind hax which is the crucial point.

Mind manip and spatial manipulation are both offensive abilities, and makima's dimensional travel only works through hell not through any dimension and Beatrice can restrict what goes in and out of her dimensions.

And makima did use a verbal command to attempt to control power.

Makima doesn't start with control in character, as in this same power fight she attacked with devil's power first before using verbal command.

Meaning even if makima kills subaru during the next go round he can ask Beatrice to simply send her in a place she can't escape from(I.E a black hole), or manipulate her mind with shamak so she's trapped, or teleport her to the other side of the planet, or simply stop time for her.

She has several options in ending this fight. Makima in character doesn't go for control first, which gives subaru time to command Beatrice something else, on top of that it's a verbal command meaning subaru just needs to speak faster than her.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Makima can walk through Hell mean that she could do the same to any dimension. What make you think that Beatrice's BFR is superior to her?

It doesn't mean that she need to speak to control Power, unless specifically stated so.

I have already explain above why Makima will use mind hax first. It's her baseline mindset even without context.

There is many possible explanations for that, maybe Makima started to respect Power for defying Makima, maybe she just didnt want to. It's definitly not an anti feat, as Makima just few chapters later controlled vastly superior Devils, like all those Weapon devils.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Makima can walk through Hell mean that she could do the same to any dimension. What make you think that Beatrice's BFR is superior to her?

It doesn't mean that she need to speak to control Power, unless specifically stated so.

I have already explain above why Makima will use mind hax first. It's her baseline mindset even without context.

There is many many possibple explanations for that, maybe Makima started to respect Power for defying Makima, maybe she just didnt want to. It's definitly not an anti feat, as Makima just few chapters later controlled vastly superior Devils, like all those Weapon devils.

No she only got into hell because the spider devil summoned her.
There is no proof makima can use mind hax without verbal commands until you can prove so it's verbal commands(scans).

You explained why she can use mindhax not because she would use it first, mind hax has never been makima's first move in combat show me scans that prove otherwise I can't take that as a valid tactic.

I wasn't using that as an antifeat that she couldn't control Beatrice, I was explaining why she doesn't use it first , and has to use verbal commands.

Also for the record, all of those weapon devils could only be controlled because makima defeated killed them. I'm not even arguing against he being able to control Beatrice, but the point you used wasn't valid.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Also, i don't see spatial manip being offensive ability and Beatrice doesn't seem to use mind manip in-character.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Also, i don't see spatial manip being offensive ability and Beatrice doesn't seem to use mind manip in-character.

Shamak is mind manip and she uses it several times in charactes.

• El Shamac: The target becomes unable to control their bodies while under its effects.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Beatrice has used spatial manipulation offensively in character before.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

It's because she can control the spider devil so she got dimensional travel.

It was shown once doesn't mean it have to be verbal command. Just like the video above, Beatrice call out Shamac doesn't mean she can only use it through verbal command.

No, i explain why she would use mind hax first because she views everything as below her. She doesn't think highly anyone expect for Chainsaw Devil and neither does Subaru or Beatrice have earn respect for her.

Katana Man, Snake Devil, Punishment Devil and Zombie Devil, they weren't killed by Makima but was controlled by her.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Like Makima have to say "bang" to active her telekinesis is flawed.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

It's because she can control the spider devil so she got dimensional travel.

It was shown once doesn't mean it have to be verbal command. Just like the video above, Beatrice call out Shamac doesn't mean she can only use it through verbal command.

No, i explain why she would use mind hax first because she views everything as below her. She doesn't think highly anyone expect for Chainsaw Devil and neither does Subaru or Beatrice have earn respect for her.

Katana Man, Snake Devil, Punishment Devil and Zombie Devil, they weren't killed by Makima but was controlled by her.

The spider devil has only been shown capable of summoning her to hell therefore she can only use it to summon it to hell, we don't give characters abilities they haven't shown. The spider devil's ability is to summon someone to her immediate location not general dimensional travel.

Please provide me a scan where she does mind manip without a verbal command until I see that, I have no way of believing that. In Beatrice's case the spell is the medium not the name, in makima's case it is a very reasonable assumption that her mind manipulation requires her to command her targets, until I have proof otherwise, I will debate with that notion.

Beatrice has multiple showing of activating her spells without calling them by name, so it's understood.

Just because she believes everything is below her doesn't mean she always uses it first, I've shown you scans where she doesn't use it first in combat, please show me a counter scan otherwise she doesn't use it first in combat.

We have no way of knowing how she got those devils so we don't know regardless, the argument is mute. I'm not debating if she can control beatrice.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Why do you think Beatrice's BFR is higher than Maki range? Unless it's multiverse range then it's understandable but there is nothing indicate those dimension is beyond Makima range.

A character call out their attack for multiple reason, mostly they do it because it's cool or plot device. If what you said is true then why can Makima control those devils without commanding them? If so then she would need to do that everytime she use them.

I have explain Makima personality above and the situation where she cannot control Power. Saying Makima doesn't mind control first is like saying Beatrice would willing to use blackhole at the start because it entirely goes against her character.

She only respect the Chainsaw devil because its literally the only thing can put down Devils permanently. Subaru or Beatrice can't, they literally nothing more than a strong creatures without any immortalitys on their name. She has zero reasons to respect them. Heck, Makima was ready to flip off the embodiment of Darkness. Why do scan matters when her personality already made it so obvious?

We don't how she got them for sure but we know that she have control over them and that's enough.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Why do you think Beatrice's BFR is higher than Maki range? Unless it's multiverse range then it's understandable but there is nothing indicate those dimension is beyond Makima range.

A character call out their attack for multiple reason, mostly they do it because it's cool or plot device. If what you said is true then why can Makima control those devils without commanding them? If so then she would need to do that everytime she use them.

I have explain Makima personality above and the situation where she cannot control Power. Saying Makima doesn't mind control first is like saying Beatrice would willing to use blackhole at the start because it entirely goes against her character.

She only respect the Chainsaw devil because its literally the only thing can put down Devils permanently. Subaru or Beatrice can't, they literally nothing more than a strong creatures without any immortalitys on their name. She has zero reasons to respect them. Heck, Makima was ready to flip off the personification of Darkness. Why do scan matters when her personality already made it so obvious?

We don't how she got them for sure but we know that she have control over them. Beatrice doesn't have resistance to mind control.

-Because Makima has only shown been capable of transporting herself to hell , and Beatrice's BFR is an isolated space in a different dimension, at best Makima could ask the spider devil to send her to Hell , but then she couldn't get herself back to the battlefield because one she doesn't have humans on hand make a contract(Contracts are only between humans and devils) to the hell devil to get her out and even if she could it's not guaranteed she could get it to send her back to the battlefield.

-Because those devils are already under her control. In order to put a devil under her control so far it seems she needs a to give them a verbal command.

-Makima has never used control first in combat ever. Your evidence is her personality makes it even though the story contradicts that she starts with control just because she beleives she's superior doesn't mean she'll immediately start with control, manga facts are always first. That is the standard.

-Because her personality makes her able to control a devil not use it first, and the story supports that. Please get a scan to prove your argument otherwise I can't take it. That is the rules of how vs battles works.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Hell is another dimension too and Beatrice's BFR is no different. She can just use spider devil to create a portal back, simple as that and she doesn't need anyone to make contract, where did you get that from?

A verbal command is required if the ability is stated so, Makima only say that once so you cannot make entire assumption about it.

Makima control entire team of Devils and bunch of people then she attempt to control Power. Let me ask you a question: "What evidence did you give for Beatrice to start with time manip, mind manip, or BFR? If it her in-character move set or did you just choose one and assume that she would use it despite her personality say otherwise?"

SBA stated that the state of mind is in character. I give many examples of Makima using Control due to her personality, including the time where she didn't because plot device. You ask for scans and the profile give explanation, what's there to ask?

 

[Jamesthetaker]

If you still insist on Makima not using Control at first, her telekinesis can one-shotted Beatrice regardless.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Hell is another dimension too and Beatrice's BFR is no different. She can just use spider devil to create a portal back, simple as that and she doesn't need anyone to make contract, where did you get that from?

A verbal command is required if the ability is stated so, Makima only say that once so you cannot make entire assumption about it.

Makima control entire team of Devils and bunch of people then she attempt to control Power. Let me ask you a question: "What evidence did you give for Beatrice to start with time manip, mind manip, or BFR? If it her in-character move set or did you just choose one and assume that she would use it despite her personality say otherwise?"

SBA stated that the state of mind is in character. I give many examples of Makima using Control due to her personality, including the time where she didn't because plot device. You ask for scans and the profile give explanation, what's there to ask?

Where did I get she needs to make a contract from, hmmm the manga.

Makima has always used verbal commands to get people under her control, this isn't assumption it's what been shown,

Several, did you not watch the videos I showed you in one of them she started with time manip, in another one she started with mind manip, in another she started with BFR.

Yes, in the state of mind you showed she doesn't start with mind manip.

According to versus battles:
State of mind: In character, but willing to kill. The characters will employ their usual battle strategies, including flaws such as being casual, however, must be willing to kill the opponent even if they usually won't.

Makima's usual battle strategies is telekenesis, with control being secondary based on the facts I've shown you.

Beatrice easily reacts to telekenesis and blocks with barriers. Also beatrice blitzes so she can literally just shower her with time stop arrows.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Spider Devil: Makima possesses control over the Spider Devil, which grants her access to the following abilities:

• Spider-like Abilities: Prinz can walk upon walls, and has spider limbs which she can pierce enemies with.
• Intangibility: Prinz has been shown to submerge herself under the ground and emerge again to attack her foes at any given time.
• Summoning: Prinz has shown that she can unfurl the zipper on her body to summon Makima to her immediate location even in Hell.

That mean Beatrice doesn't have a starting move because she could use any of them.

Beatrice doesn't have enhanced sense so she cannot react to invisible telekinesis and she doesn't know about Makima ability.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Spider Devil: Makima possesses control over the Spider Devil, which grants her access to the following abilities:

• Spider-like Abilities: Prinz can walk upon walls, and has spider limbs which she can pierce enemies with.
• Intangibility: Prinz has been shown to submerge herself under the ground and emerge again to attack her foes at any given time.
• Summoning: Prinz has shown that she can unfurl the zipper on her body to summon Makima to her immediate location even in Hell.

That mean Beatrice doesn't have a starting move because she could use any of them.

Beatrice doesn't have enhanced sense so she cannot react to invisible telekinesis and she doesn't know about Makima ability.

I'm not sure why your posting that it just proves she can just summon to her location, which is in hell.

No it means she has a slew of starting moves she's flexible, and all of them can end the fight.
Also Post-TS(which is the key we're using) Beatrice usually starts with Shamak(when she's fighting with subaru).

in makima's case she always starts with telekenesis.


Ok than A they die subaru figures it out as he has enhanced senses and warns Beatrice B beatrice attacks with Shamak before her because she's faster.

Also I'm going to leave, because I want to sleep and I want more people here to have this debate.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Why do you assume that Hell is the only place she can go? Is Beatrice's dimension can prevent someone with dimensional travel or is that a place beyond Makima range?

Shamak can be dodged though.

Subaru is slower than Makima so he can't warn her about telekinesis.

Right cause neither of us doesn't reach anywhere.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Why do you assume that Hell is the only place she can go? Is Beatrice's dimension can prevent someone with dimensional travel or is that a place beyond Makima range?

Shamak can be dodged though.

Subaru is slower than Makima so he can't warn her about telekinesis.

Right cause neither of us doesn't reach anywhere.

Ok I saw this when I woke up, and it bugged me.

Spider Devil is either in hell or with makima, if she's with makima she would get BFR'd along with her so she'd summon her to the same dimension as like during the video I showed you it's a wide distance attack.

Shamak can be dodged by another supersonic character who's aware of the attack, not a subsonic character who isn't

Beatrice is faster, meaning makima gets attacked and by the time makima revives that gives subaru time to warn her about telekenesis.

Also subaru has been capable of warning characters of subsonic attack speed attacks before it's not a blitz so it's very possible(https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Petelgeuse_Romanee-Conti).

(For scan's this isn't on youtube but in episode 22 timestamp 15:25 he does this while completely off guard, the supersonic characters move in time but the fodder can't).

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Spider devil is with Makima, if they got BFR'ed there she could ask her to bring her back.

If Beatrice attack first then she couldn't know about Makima power so she would try to kills her normally. After that Makima would be aware of Beatrice's ability then use telekinesis or mind control.

Subaru doesn't have speed above Athletic Human, if you disagree then make a CRT about that.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Spider devil is with Makima, if they got BFR'ed there she could ask her to bring her back.

If Beatrice attack first then she couldn't know about Makima power so she would try to kills her normally. After that Makima would be aware of Beatrice's ability then use telekinesis or mind control.

Subaru doesn't have speed above Athletic Human, if you disagree then make a CRT about that.

No she couldn't read what spider devil's ability is
- Prinz has shown that she can unfurl the zipper on her body to summon Makima to her immediate location even in Hell.
She can't just summon her anyway, this is evidenced by how she couldn't just summon them out of hell.

Yes beatrice kills her, subaru tells her what happens, subaru has the time to yell to her in that time. makima is subsonic there's time between her killing her and the time she makes her next strike.

An athletic human can still react to attacks of subsonic speed it's not a blitz, he's still capable of perceiving the attack provided there's a distance.(They start within 10 meters subaru's lowest range(SBA-https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Standard_Battle_Assumptions)).

A normal human can react to a police car even though it's subsonic(provided it's at a distance). This is assumed, the profile is still fine.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Why is Al Shamac which is Beatrice's BFR even being mentioned here? That's like the highest level yin spell that requires an ungodly amount of mana, PTS Beatrice can't use that normally, she could only use that before due to absorbing mana for 400 years.

In terms of what Beatrice uses, probably would be the time stopped arrows that crystallizes stuff, that or shamac. If Subaru tells her to use a specific spell she will go with that without even asking him why, whether that's EMT which nullifies all abilities except for physical abilities or EMM which makes them invulnerable due to being in another plane of existence.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Why is Al Shamac which is Beatrice's BFR even being mentioned here? That's like the highest level yin spell that requires an ungodly amount of mana, PTS Beatrice can't use that normally, she could only use that before due to absorbing mana for 400 years.

In terms of what Beatrice uses, probably would be the time stopped arrows that crystallizes stuff, that or shamac. If Subaru tells her to use a specific spell she will go with that without even asking him why, whether that's EMT which nullifies all abilities except for physical abilities or EMM which makes them invulnerable.

First of thank you for coming.

Second , I only used al shamac because it was simpler to explain as the other parties did not seem familiar with re zero.

Beatrice does have another method of BFRing which she has used post TS in character for a first move. Black holes.

Gyazo

gyazo.com

Also, just for the record she has used Al shamac post timeskip with the mana crystals against Rai not sure if there available as optional equipment but thought I should mention it.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

From what i remember, she has like 6 mana crystals which allows her to cast 6 spells, she already used them all in arc 5.

I don't remember her using Al Shamac against Rai, just Murak and Minya, that said it has been years since i read that part of the series, if this is talking about arc 5, and irrelevant i guess since she has Ul Shamac which is bfr too (that spell still bugs me as i remember it initially in arc 4 being some sort of high level mind control where you can't even tell you are alive, now all of a sudden in arc 6 it's a black hole that sends you away).

Again though that scene wasn't in the LN and been years since i read the WN of arc 4, so maybe i misremember what spell specifically Beatrice used then and it's not Ul Shamac.

As for this match seems to be some arguing here about whether Subaru can inform Beatrice fast enough to beat Makima.

RBD works by placing Subaru in a way where he can avoid his death, but it's not always so convenient, arc 7 shows this, he can go back anywhere from days, hours, or minutes before his death. It's all up to Satella's whim really.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

From what i remember, she has like 6 mana crystals which allows her to cast 6 spells, she already used them all in arc 5.

I don't remember her using Al Shamac against Rai, just Murak and Minya, that said it has been years since i read that part of the series, if this is talking about arc 5, and irrelevant i guess since she has Ul Shamac which is bfr too (that spell still bugs me as i remember it initially in arc 4 being some sort of high level mind control where you can't even tell you are alive, now all of a sudden in arc 6 it's a black hole that sends you away).

Again though that scene wasn't in the LN and been years since i read the WN of arc 4, so maybe i misremember what spell specifically Beatrice used then and it's not Ul Shamac.

As for this match seems to be some arguing here about whether Subaru can inform Beatrice fast enough to beat Makima.

RBD works by placing Subaru in a way where he can avoid his death, but it's not always so convenient, arc 7 shows this, he can go back anywhere from days, minutes or hours before his death. It's all up to Satella's whim really.

Yes, in this case though that's in the case it goes over several days when this fight will likely be decided within minutes if not seconds. From what I understand we assume the start of the fight is RBD start point unless the fight goes for a significant amount of time and then it's random. My argument is makima is only subsonic speed and the fight starts with them tens of meters from each other. Why would subaru not be able to inform Beatrice to use Ul Shamac and about her telekenesis before makima's attack reached them(especially considering he'd have literally infinite tries to do so). In fact subaru's whip is faster than her telekinesis so he could grab her hand with the whip before(obviously wouldn't hard her, but could stop her) to give himself extra time.