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[R2M4] Venefica's Tier 7 Tourney: Haruka vs Cinner

That's true, and i get it if ya don't wanna vote yet, but i personally think we've gone in circles for ages at this point. As for me, I am still very confident haruka can win, especially with that way more effective adaptation and super duper range advantage, and a bunch others advantages, as i've explained before, so my votes on haruka (Duh)
 
Rayfire said:
Reasoning Part 2!!!

Who's saying it can be broken down to a few hours? He can't leap that much. He hasn't shown any adaptation like haruka. Even if we assume he CAN tone it down to a few hours, that's still a huge window for haruka to wear him down until he's physically incapable of moving through repeated organ damage. And what do you mean 'People in bakuhatsu aren't melee-oriented'? Haruka literally uses a scythe, Asuna is a god at hand-to-hand (Volume 1 Chapter 2), and Shizu and the latter have several melee skill feats with their staffs. Haruka prefers not to get in close, sure, but that doesn't mean they aren't used to it. They only get in close when they have to, but they are still very experienced in that regard, especially haruka. I didn't elaborate on reactive evolution much before, since i thought it should be pretty obvious haruka could adapt, particularly in skill after referencing chapters, but apparently it wasn't, but now you have the explanation for why she can adapt to cinners' skill & planning fairly quickly above ^

Cinner can't outrange, this is obvious when you peek at both their profiles, but cinner can predict. At least at the beginning, before haruka's RE kicks in and puts them on equal footing skill-wise. And what's saying that cinner can put his regen into some sort of overdrive? I never saw that anywhere. As for acrobatics, Other characters like asuna literally ricochet off of falling pieces of a cave (Vol 1 Chapter 3, after kedron is defeated) therefore changing directions rapidly, just like cinner, and Haruka outskills her. Haruka can't air sense, yes, but that doesn't mean she can't also predict attacks.

Funnily enough, haruka also shows rapid direction change herself, no scaling from other characters required (Avoiding Shizu's sight with her sheer movements, AKA when shizu says that she seems to just disapeear, despite them clearly having equal speed, although haruka was, again, holding back.) Which is another reason why i'm saying that even at the beginning of the fight, it's not like haruka is just going to be completely outmatched like you seem to think, even though i've explained a bajillion times why that isnt the case.

Cinner has an initial advantage, yes, but speed is equalised, and she won't get completely overwhelmed with insane skill in her own regard. I'm using shizu as an example, since she was being super unpredictable when she went all out against haruka, but still kept up with her pretty easily. (She was a little surprised when shizu used nullify, which she thought she didn't know, but that's about it. This means she could potentially be taken off guard by the air manipulation, but once again, a shadow portal or a nullify is all it takes, so that won't really matter.)

I mentioned immense pain tolerance there for a very, VERY good reason. Asuna was in noticeable pain at first, yes, but you're completely ignoring what i'm saying when i told you that she basically forgot it was even there when she pushed through it. It was immense pain tolerance, as in, while asuna was in pain at first, she was still more than capable of moving and fighting despite it. I'd get it if asuna was incapped, but she clearly wasn't. The hole thing is very vague, but it was obviously meant to be like, a huge, HUGE hole. I'd say like pretty much nearly everything minus the heart and a lung kind of damage. That's why it was described as immense blood loss.

That's assuming haruka even gets to that point, which she likely won't, especially since she will not allow cinner to fight on his home field once she knows what it is to take advantage of it (Close-range) once RE kicks in. If that happens, though, who's saying a quick shadow portal can't get her out of it? You're assuming she just does nothing again, which she clearly won't. :/ The AP Disadvantage, even at the very start, is going to make that even less likely too.

30 seconds is a lot in a fight as quick as this, since they are both FTL with equalised speed. Haruka predicted someone less skilled, sure, but shizu was very unpredictable after breaking out of the void of despair, since she had become willing to do anything to win, which is why i'm bringing up the fact haruka still predicted her movements pretty comfortably. As i've already explained, the infortmation analysis is entirely intelligence based (Hence, why haruka is genius level) which is why i don't find it far-fetched that haruka could know what to nullify if cinner is hiding anything, since even the slightest hint will give it away to her. Plus, as soon as cinner shows something off, haruka will see it and know what it is, therefore something she can also now nullify.

I put 'if need be' if for whatever reason you still thought the heat aura would work, lol

Like i said above ^ 30 seconds is a lot considering their equalised speeds (FTL) And RE and overall just way faster adaptation can help her deal with cinners' full kit. His abilities don't really matter if haruka can fight just as well far outside of his own range. The breaking the ground thing would at best be tens of meters according to his profile, so that's not really feasible when an adapted haruka, with prediction of her own and superhuman precision, can snipe him from way further distances than that. If she see's cinner dodging before she does any moves, then that'll be another thing haruka will know to adapt to (ESP isn't perfect or outright precognition either, and it's very vague. so, for example, she could suddenly switch strategies, bypassing cinners' prediction, etc.)
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He’s still making a ton of progress quickly, even a smaller portion than the full result is impressive. He jumped 3 AP tiers and multiple skill levels. And yeah Haruka uses a scythe, but the way you’re describing her it seems she mainly does magic and Asuna doesn’t give me the impression of a strong melee fighter either. I can’t find anything on her page implying she’s good at hand to hand and I haven’t read your story so idk what you’re referencing. And I still think Shizu isn’t impressive enough for that to apply to Cinner. Also now that I think, Cinner mastered Pure Form and learned how to properly use all his abilities mid fight, making him jump from City to Mountain level so his growth is consistently good enough to at least be considered here.

Lifeline gets up to Several Meters while Asuna’s scythe is Extended Melee so he actually can out range if she’s comfortable engaging in melee like you say. I imagine on first try it catches her off guard since she’s using wind magic to extend her range and it still isn’t out reaching Cinner. For his healing I mean the adrenaline should kick in here like against Rinser where he took many hits that would definitely lead to bone damage and kept going. That example doesn’t sound like she can consistently rapidly change direction, you’re jumping off of things that are already there. Cinner does that but off any surface at anytime without need for setup or assistance. And sure Haruka won’t be completely outmatched, but you seem to think she’ll perfectly react to everything Cinner does regardless of the advantages you acknowledge. Does Haruka have any feats to justify predicting Cinner who can out predict people with his abilities on his level with stuff he hasn’t seen before?

Ok so Shizu actually did put up a fight, you didn’t make it sound like that earlier. Still, Cinner has seen people like Haruka with the scythe, projectiles, and portals but she’s seen nothing like him. But I don’t think portals gets you out of being pulled in while Cinner is rushing you. Plus he can just go through the portal with her, I doubt she can really react fast enough to stop him while at the same time focusing on getting through herself. Speeding bullet.

So basically she took rib damage but nothing vital like the lungs or heart were hit. But Cinner would be hitting the thing carrying wind to your lungs and your spine. For example, another character with Supernatural Willpower, Black Star was clearly struggling to stand after taking a broken arm and spine. Now we’re adding a second key part of the body to the mix, I think it’s just too much for Haruka to handle. And there’s always the chance Cinner sees her heal and goes through her skull which he can’t heal from or gets her in the skull in the first place.

I think you’re the one assuming Cinner does nothing after seeing a portal for the millionth time. He’s gonna pursue her or stop her from reaching her portal at all and hit her with his staff. You act like all his advantages and unique abilities will never even faze her which I highly highly doubt.

The time could count, but Cinner has more than enough ways to defend himself here. He can block her darkness attacks and mitigate them with aura, use his extension to disengage or Metal Whirlwind to parry, and predict his way out of being hit. Wouldn’t Cinner also be unpredictable? This is the guy who goes up to a sniper and puts his staff in the barrel of his gun, the guy who flips onto you and beats you after being paralyzed and cut down to the organs, the guy who makes it seems like he attacked you but actually set you up to dodge and be hit instead. How do you show off your senses? Unless he starts sniffing her or tells her his exact power set, how does she find out about these things? What’s her thinking process, is she a robot built for jumping to conclusions or something? We already discussed she could potentially take the aura or his extension, but that’s just too much.

Hope Haruka doesn’t use her negate on it then. Also gonna remind everyone nullify has a cooldown and can’t be spammed so that’s another thing holding it off from killing Cinner.

Cinner can also guard as well out of his range. He has strong leap to push himself along if jumping isn’t fast enough and the senses to tell when something’s coming plus just his own instincts. If Haruka tries close range, the rocks would help distract or pierce her like I said. I feel you’re oversimplifying by saying his abilities don’t matter just because Haruka can evolve and has a range advantage. And idk what’s vague about his ESP, he senses the way the air moves around her and so deduces what she’s doing and responds to it. It’s like a prompt basically.
 
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Rayfire said:
I think we should just let everyone else vote now, since me and minty are just going to go in circles. To make sure it doesn't get buried (Again lol) It's 4-2 in Haruka's favor. 1 more for haruka might be enough for grace
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Sounds good. I wonder if Leo or Canine have been looking so we can at least be sure they voted for a reason. It just feels like I’m admitting Cinner isn’t infallible but you aren’t admitting Haruka can be caught off guard or fail to react.
 
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Rayfire said:
I obviously don't have the time to screenshot it, put it on imgur, and send it here, but she has tanked lightning attacks, which produce the same heat as cinners' aura.
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Lightning, a stroke of lightning happens in about 30 microseconds. That's why even humans (being 10-B with stats) can survive repeated lighting strikes with only burns on their bodies. A feat of her surviving such a short time against the heat gets scrapped when she constantly gets exposed not only for seconds but for minutes to Cinner's lighting temperature from his aura.
Rayfire said:
No Not yet at least But if haruka can disable life force (which i'm confident she can, since it behaves like some sort of magical property according to it's description, since cinner can manipulate it to his whim) then that could work
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I have a right to disagree as a forum user. I feel like some of her arsenal is being exaggerated (just as I felt with Asuna's speed and dodging), and I presented a bunch of Cinner's strengths Im voting him for.

EDIT: And if I remember correctly, it was mentioned that Haruka can power nullify only one technique/ability of her opponent at a time and that it has a big cooldown. That leaves Cinner with most of his other arsenal available, thus power nullify doesn't seem so impactful to me at all.
 
Froggytron said:
Lightning, a stroke of lightning happens in about 30 microseconds. That's why even humans (being 10-B with stats) can survive repeated lighting strikes with only burns on their bodies. A feat of her surviving such a short time against the heat gets scrapped when she constantly gets exposed not only for seconds but for minutes to Cinner's lighting temperature from his aura.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but that's not how this normally works in fiction, and neither does it in bakuhatsu. Even if we assumed that was true, Asuna can still survive being enveloped by it inside and out when she uses turbocharge/supercharge, so it's still resisting lightning-based heat.
 
Rayfire said:
Yeah, but that's not how this normally works in fiction, and neither does it in bakuhatsu. Even if we assumed that was true, Asuna can still survive being enveloped by it inside and out when she uses turbocharge/supercharge, so it's still resisting lightning-based heat.
Click to expand...
Does Haruka have anything like supercharge to boost her resistance?
 
MintyBoi1 said:
Does Haruka have anything like supercharge to boost her resistance?
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No, i only mentioned that because she's generally equal to (Or above depending on how you interpret it) asuna, who can resist, well, said heat for long periods no problem as already explained ^
 
Rayfire said:
No, i only mentioned that because she's generally equal to (Or above depending on how you interpret it) asuna, who can resist, well, said heat for long periods no problem as already explained ^
Click to expand...
Wait but Asuna needs an ability to tank the lightning so how’s she scale to that? Does more skill equal more resistance like it equals power?
 
What do we do if this is an Incon? Just put it on profiles and flip a coin on who advances? If Haruka wins she just has a canon match so idek how that goes since she stomped Asuna’s friend.
 
MintyBoi1 said:
Just keep them in character and don’t be weird, maybe it’ll even be funny. I know I’ve written some crackhead stuff people somehow liked.
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I second this. Fanfics where the characters don't act like the characters are the text equivalent of stepping in dog piss while wearing socks.
 
LeoEpicGamer8910 said:
I second this. Fanfics where the characters don't act like the characters are the text equivalent of stepping in dog piss while wearing socks.
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I should know, I’ve been watching
Sonic’s Ultimate Harem
all day. They drained my boy of his character and made him suck. Like bro legit gets beat up by The Joker and Mario without even putting up a fight.
 
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