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Verse quality requirements (or lack thereof)
- Thread starter Ricsi-viragosi
- Start date
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There goes One Punch Ma and Medaka Box.A Stoned Orc said:
Please try to think of the consequences of the rules you're suggesting, guys.
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Its illogical.00potato said:
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Why not go a step further and delete anything that doesn't have a serious story?
Comedy? Banned.
Parody? Banned.
Daytime Cartoons? Banned.
Gameplay focused video games? Banned.
We might as well go all-in if we want to start relegating anything that isn't completely serious to joke battles.
Comedy? Banned.
Parody? Banned.
Daytime Cartoons? Banned.
Gameplay focused video games? Banned.
We might as well go all-in if we want to start relegating anything that isn't completely serious to joke battles.
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you are very overexagerating there
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only stone orc is saying that
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Just gonna say that Invisible Dragon being a parody is straight up speculation, in the same way people speculate if Shakespeare actually wrote Titus Andronicus. People don't know if the book was intentionally garbage as satire or if it was actually written by a child.
So there goes that parody argument.
So there goes that parody argument.
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Just use the ultimate debating trump card:
Death of the Author.
Ez
Death of the Author.
Ez
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I agree with the premise of what Cal is saying. But it's hard to draw a line when there's zero objective measures to draw a line in, because any time you do there'll be dozens of examples of verses that most people otherwise wouldn't even question them being here. I'm neutral on Invisible Dragon being added, but we shouldn't ignore quality entirely.
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I'm open to a line being drawn but so far, nothing has been proposed besides "bad verse not allowed because it would ruined who people view us and our pride". No quality scale or anything of the sort has been brought up by the ones who oppose the inclusion of these verses. We can't even attempt to do something with a statement that is so simple.
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I'll ask the better question.
Why shouldn't we ignore quality? What actual, useful, understandable reason do we concoct? What does it cover that other guidelines don't already?
Give me an answer that doesn't sound like a one sided crusade on some imagined issues we don't have at all or I will lose any ability to take this arbitrary and honestly dumb consideration seriously.
Why shouldn't we ignore quality? What actual, useful, understandable reason do we concoct? What does it cover that other guidelines don't already?
Give me an answer that doesn't sound like a one sided crusade on some imagined issues we don't have at all or I will lose any ability to take this arbitrary and honestly dumb consideration seriously.
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so i guess this debate is done? should we count votes now?
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You know what, I am going to side with Cal.
I agree that there needs to be a standard of Quality. This wiki is turning into a garbage dump of a bunch of crap all in the name of "indexing". VSBW is like a library or an encyclopedia of books. Do libraries or encyclopedias accept everything?? No!
And no, there is a difference between a bad light novel and the stuff that would be allowed if we go by "Quality doesn't mean anything!". One is just bad, the other is so low in quality it is like a 5 year old wrote it.
And no, Invisible Dragon should stay since it is meant to be bad.
We need a quality line to prevent, literally everything to come on here. Since this wiki isn't for Garbage, it's for legitiamate verses
I agree that there needs to be a standard of Quality. This wiki is turning into a garbage dump of a bunch of crap all in the name of "indexing". VSBW is like a library or an encyclopedia of books. Do libraries or encyclopedias accept everything?? No!
And no, there is a difference between a bad light novel and the stuff that would be allowed if we go by "Quality doesn't mean anything!". One is just bad, the other is so low in quality it is like a 5 year old wrote it.
And no, Invisible Dragon should stay since it is meant to be bad.
We need a quality line to prevent, literally everything to come on here. Since this wiki isn't for Garbage, it's for legitiamate verses
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Blue, you literally provided nothing new, which is what I've been asking of anyone being "pro" for this argument.
What does quality even do that other guidelines do not? We are an indexing site for feats, what we look for and what we require for what we consider acceptable profiles or verse pages have nothing to do with the qualifications a library is looking for.
I am getting tired of sidelining arguments that seem to lack any ability of being straight forward - what in the actual **** does this help? How many times must this be asked for an actual answer?
Besides, of course, induce a headache in everyone trying to settle actual guidelines to cut off things of a certain "quality" without an enormous amount of disagreement (which we can see in this very damn thread, nobody here is blind) that leads to a waste of time after investment of effort, and likely the issue being dropped after things get nowhere. Less divisive things like the way we treat speed equal and possibly altering it have ended in limbo.
What does quality even do that other guidelines do not? We are an indexing site for feats, what we look for and what we require for what we consider acceptable profiles or verse pages have nothing to do with the qualifications a library is looking for.
I am getting tired of sidelining arguments that seem to lack any ability of being straight forward - what in the actual **** does this help? How many times must this be asked for an actual answer?
Besides, of course, induce a headache in everyone trying to settle actual guidelines to cut off things of a certain "quality" without an enormous amount of disagreement (which we can see in this very damn thread, nobody here is blind) that leads to a waste of time after investment of effort, and likely the issue being dropped after things get nowhere. Less divisive things like the way we treat speed equal and possibly altering it have ended in limbo.
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Well, I think that what is being suggested is just that we do not allow self-published or Wattpad fiction that is of so poor quality that an average 10 years old primary school student could have written them. I doubt that should pose all that much of a problem.
Still, we already have plenty of restrictions, so this may be unnecessary.
Still, we already have plenty of restrictions, so this may be unnecessary.
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I think quality shouldn't be the issue but whether or not the novel has a system compatible with this site's and whether or not the novel is literally based on the tiering system (yes they exist) or created for this site.
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The plenty of restrictions is partly why I feel this qualification is useless. Stuff like wattpad or what gives should already be covered by other guidelines, for no less reason we don't have anything originating from there in here (to my knowledge).
Or it could just be that no member putting in effort has really read wattpad stories, but the first things seems more likely.
Or it could just be that no member putting in effort has really read wattpad stories, but the first things seems more likely.
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That's understandable, but as far as I am aware, our guidelines on permissible material are already pretty strict. Which was kinda my deal, waht does "quality" account for that other things don't?
If there's nothing, I would prefer staying away from the clusterfuck of people deciding guidelines for what has enough "quality".
If there's nothing, I would prefer staying away from the clusterfuck of people deciding guidelines for what has enough "quality".
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Well, one of our guidelines is notability, and as far as I'm aware, no individual story there would count on that regard beyond the ones that went from Wattpad fics to actually published material.YungManzi said:
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I mean, Wattpad fics are pushing it way too much.Ionliosite said:
If we allow that stuff, we are bringing in pretty much everything
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I do believe he's referring to the original stories.
That said, how much notability do we consider enough?
That said, how much notability do we consider enough?
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Notability is mostly based on having some noteworthy community outside of vs debating.
Trying to pin down an exact number is a fool's errand rife for abuse, but the important part is there being some detectable fanbase with no relation to the vs debating community.
Trying to pin down an exact number is a fool's errand rife for abuse, but the important part is there being some detectable fanbase with no relation to the vs debating community.
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I see, that much I didn't know about. The more you learn.
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Wattpad doesn't have that notabilityAgnaa said:
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Wouldn't popular novels have a community inside wattpad itself doe? If they have legit millions of views
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I mean, not really, of course some may say "Good job!", but they don't have an actual fanbaseInfiniteSped said:
Anyway, FC/OC is made for wattpad characters, This isn't the place for Wattpad characters
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@Blue FC/OC is made for fan characters, non-notable characters, and characters made by vsbw members. If there's a notable non-fanfic Wattpad verse (idk if there is) then I don't see why it wouldn't go here.
There's no meaningful difference for us between posting on Wattpad, or posting on one's own website, yet we allow Web Novels.
There's no meaningful difference for us between posting on Wattpad, or posting on one's own website, yet we allow Web Novels.
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Unless you can prove the more popular stories don't have a following, when some of them have gone as far as becoming outright movies (no matter how bad they are), just saying they don't have fandoms isn't much proof.
Saying they belong in FC/OC is again reinstating your belief that there's nothing more than fanfiction in that site. Why keep nagging on with a demonstratively false point?
Saying they belong in FC/OC is again reinstating your belief that there's nothing more than fanfiction in that site. Why keep nagging on with a demonstratively false point?
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@Blue
Oh yeah?
Look up The Moonlight Boy by Angela Poppe
A wattpad original action/adventure with 1.3 million reads and 88 thousand votes, and 2 thousand comments on the first chapter alone.
It even won a wattpad award iirc.
There plenty of stuff here which don't even reach those heights as far as popularity goes.
Oh yeah?
Look up The Moonlight Boy by Angela Poppe
A wattpad original action/adventure with 1.3 million reads and 88 thousand votes, and 2 thousand comments on the first chapter alone.
It even won a wattpad award iirc.
There plenty of stuff here which don't even reach those heights as far as popularity goes.
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I kinda agree with Cal here.
It's not like we're saying "only high quality verses should be on the wiki", but more like "Trash doesn't belong to this wiki, it belongs to a trash can". Bad stuff as long as it's not outright garbage can stay imo
Some general guidelines can be stuff like "It's actually sold for actual money", "the writing is correct", "the drawing is comprehensible", "it's a story with a plot" (regardless if the plot is finished or not since One Piece will probably outlive this wiki anyway) etc. (I admit they should be stricter, but for now they're fine). You don't need to follow all of the points, but at least half should be respected.
These extremely simple guidelines, for example, easily prevent stuff like Invisible Dragon to be here without touching particularly subjective topic.
It's not like we're saying "only high quality verses should be on the wiki", but more like "Trash doesn't belong to this wiki, it belongs to a trash can". Bad stuff as long as it's not outright garbage can stay imo
Some general guidelines can be stuff like "It's actually sold for actual money", "the writing is correct", "the drawing is comprehensible", "it's a story with a plot" (regardless if the plot is finished or not since One Piece will probably outlive this wiki anyway) etc. (I admit they should be stricter, but for now they're fine). You don't need to follow all of the points, but at least half should be respected.
These extremely simple guidelines, for example, easily prevent stuff like Invisible Dragon to be here without touching particularly subjective topic.
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How many of those need to be met? Because many many verses on the site aren't sold for actual money, and many many shitty verses that are prevented by our current guidelines are sold for actual money (Suggsverse).
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Sorry, I edited my comment. It's late and I forgot to add that piece.
Edit: Also, Suggs' main problem is that it completely breaks the tier system, not quality (although that probably played a part)
Edit: Also, Suggs' main problem is that it completely breaks the tier system, not quality (although that probably played a part)
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