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Which characters can defeat Archie Sonic?

Rikimarox2 said:
Yeah I was questioning your sanity when you mentioned Xeno Goku, but that last line saved it.

Although, if Goku did actually get Immeasurable speed, he'd probably blitz due to multipliers and scaling chain I believe.
Click to expand...
I made a case for tier 0 Jay Garrick and you’re only now questioning my sanity?

Yeah I’m working off of them being 5D (in power and well speed follows due to higher-D realm outside of space and time and all) here which probably makes Goku edge out due to scaling chain, since I don’t think the amount of chaos emeralds matter anymore then.
 
Peptocoptr27 said:
unless the tier 1 claims for some heralds are true
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I’m talking OP hax + several degrees of immeasurable speed or even irrelevant speed. AP would just be low 2-C for most Leaguers probably, maybe 2-B.
Peptocoptr27 said:
Paper Mario is the same character as Mario, so that makes his scaling hella inconsistant
Click to expand...
WoG says he varies in power between games. There’s also stuff for 1-A Void and Mario apparently has passive fatehax that’s superior to other OP fatehax in-verse.
Peptocoptr27 said:
let alone out-hax someone with so many resistances
Click to expand...
You could apparently argue 5D powernull (or even higher) for the key sword. Does Sonic resist that?
 
In just his base form, he defeated Demigra, who managed to transcend space as a whole and reach the "Real World", a dimension that views the multiverse as mere fiction--manga and videogames--including severalextradimensional spaces. Fought Chamel, who was collapsing the Real World with his mere presence. In Super Saiyan 3, he one-shot Gravy, who is in the same league of power as other Demon Gods and is superior to Demigra. Contended with Sealas, who created the aforementioned extradimensional spaces and was threatening to destroy and reset all ofexistence. In his base form, he fought Super Saiyan Blue Vegito, Super Saiyan Kefla, Toppo, and base Jiren alongside Xeno Vegeta, before transforming into a Super Saiyan 4 and battling Ultra Instinct Goku, as well as Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta. Became much more powerful by the Universe Mission Arc, as he fought on par with Demon God Dabura, who was able to clash with Super Saiyan 4 Xeno Gogeta. Buu, with the same power, also previously fought Xeno Vegito, meaning Universe Arc Xeno Goku became as powerful as, if not more powerful than, the Dark Empire Arc fusions

5D Goku scaling. Keysword scales to this or higher (like 6D or 7D)
 
Greenshifter said:
In just his base form, he defeated Demigra, who managed to transcend space as a whole and reach the "Real World", a dimension that views the multiverse as mere fiction--manga and videogames--including severalextradimensional spaces. Fought Chamel, who was collapsing the Real World with his mere presence. In Super Saiyan 3, he one-shot Gravy, who is in the same league of power as other Demon Gods and is superior to Demigra. Contended with Sealas, who created the aforementioned extradimensional spaces and was threatening to destroy and reset all ofexistence. In his base form, he fought Super Saiyan Blue Vegito, Super Saiyan Kefla, Toppo, and base Jiren alongside Xeno Vegeta, before transforming into a Super Saiyan 4 and battling Ultra Instinct Goku, as well as Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta. Became much more powerful by the Universe Mission Arc, as he fought on par with Demon God Dabura, who was able to clash with Super Saiyan 4 Xeno Gogeta. Buu, with the same power, also previously fought Xeno Vegito, meaning Universe Arc Xeno Goku became as powerful as, if not more powerful than, the Dark Empire Arc fusions

5D Goku scaling. Keysword scales to this or higher (like 6D or 7D)
Click to expand...
bro this is outdated scaling
 
Greenshifter said:
In just his base form, he defeated Demigra, who managed to transcend space as a whole and reach the "Real World", a dimension that views the multiverse as mere fiction--manga and videogames--including severalextradimensional spaces. Fought Chamel, who was collapsing the Real World with his mere presence. In Super Saiyan 3, he one-shot Gravy, who is in the same league of power as other Demon Gods and is superior to Demigra. Contended with Sealas, who created the aforementioned extradimensional spaces and was threatening to destroy and reset all ofexistence. In his base form, he fought Super Saiyan Blue Vegito, Super Saiyan Kefla, Toppo, and base Jiren alongside Xeno Vegeta, before transforming into a Super Saiyan 4 and battling Ultra Instinct Goku, as well as Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta. Became much more powerful by the Universe Mission Arc, as he fought on par with Demon God Dabura, who was able to clash with Super Saiyan 4 Xeno Gogeta. Buu, with the same power, also previously fought Xeno Vegito, meaning Universe Arc Xeno Goku became as powerful as, if not more powerful than, the Dark Empire Arc fusions

5D Goku scaling. Keysword scales to this or higher (like 6D or 7D)
Click to expand...
Jaw dropped.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
Yeah I believe all of that was debunked/rejected. As sad as that is.
Click to expand...
It might be a difference in standards that caused this split. Ideally CSAP and VSBW would debate and re-align their standards so cross-wiki debating is easier. I personally don't see a problem with this if the "viewing the multiverse as fiction part" holds up. Since I don't see a better way to prove infinite superiority than that.
 
Greenshifter said:
It might be a difference in standards that caused this split. Ideally CSAP and VSBW would debate and re-align their standards so cross-wiki debating is easier. I personally don't see a problem with this if the "viewing the multiverse as fiction part" holds up. Since I don't see a better way to prove infinite superiority than that.
Click to expand...
Where does 6-D keysword comefrom?
 
Complex Multiverse level (Even in his old age, he is a dangerous threat to Demigra and the time patrol, including Xeno Goku. Demigra alone was going to cause the collapse of the entire Dragon Ball Heroes multiverse, which has infinite diverging timelines, 2 extra-dimensional spaces and the Crack of Time, a dimension beyond the linear flow of time and contains the multiverse within itself. Demigra was also a threat to the Real World which has its own extra-dimensional space, and his evil energy transcended space and the Dragon Ball Heroes world to reach it. Transcending into the Real World is also stated to be breaking the boundary between dimensions. The Real World views Dragon Ball as a whole as fiction and Demigra would also collapse it, forcing Chronoa to hold both the DBH multiverse and the Real World together. Superior to the Shadow Dragons as well, who were going to collapse the DBH multiverse and break into the Real World.)| Complex Multiverse level (Trunks stated that if Mechikaura regained his youth, he would be powerful enough to destroy everything) | Complex Multiverse level (Mechikabura's existence alone was absorbing all of time and in the end, successfully absorbed it all as well as the entire multiverse, leaving nothing behind)

Scaling to Mechikabura.
 
I can also argue Alien X to beat Archie Sonic and Xeno Goku btw (probably), but only using CSAP's system which is less strict on their higher-D stuff.
 
I think the main point of contention is that large extra dimensions on CSAP by itself is proof for higher-D while on VSBW you also need to prove infinite superiority. Both sides of the table have arguments for why their interpretation is the right one, yet it seems no-one really thinks about actually debating the other side on it, causing this gap in interpretation which leads to problems in general of people who come to VSBW to upgrade verses without realizing the standards are different and more strict and people coming to CSAP being very confused on what certain terms actually mean.
 
Please don't use CSAP, or any other Site's, systems and profiles on here, at all. It just leads to confusion and needless arguments, if you wish to debate with their statistics then do so there.
 
Greenshifter said:
WoG says he varies in power between games. There’s also stuff for 1-A Void and Mario apparently has passive fatehax that’s superior to other OP fatehax in-verse.
Click to expand...
Scans? I hope the 1-A void stuff doesn't revolve around string theory soup. It should also be noted that Mario’s fate hax revalves around Peach.
Greenshifter said:
You could apparently argue 5D powernull (or even higher) for the key sword. Does Sonic resist that?
Click to expand...
If his revisions go through, then yeah. You can argue the same 5D stuff for Archie Sonic lol. Revisions about it were supposed to be made a while ago. God damn. Alot of characters have debatable tier 1 stuff... It's getting annoying
 
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