Base Momo also reacts to Base Naruto very casually, without looking in the Chunin Exams so this is even more credence to the 2x multiplier being bunk IMO. It just shows that his speed wasn't amped. At the very least NOT 2x.
No not the general principle. In the previous thread all staffs agreed fused momo specifically should scale 2x above base momo speed. It's why it became so confusing how all of a sudden he didn't get faster.
The MAS thread linked in the op contains it.
A regular punch speed and an attack speed coming from tens of meters away isn’t the same thing.
I feel like being half the speed of your opponents is being made lesser than it actually is tbh
like that's a gap
I did which is my mistake, I wanted to accept it and then once Test finished his revisions I'd eventually come in and make my own thread removing the 2x multiplier because I didn't want to stall his threads just for that point. But I then instead ended up interrupting it anyway by changing up his scaling for this thread which then contradicts what was accepted in the MAS thread
Naruto was also physically blocking those attacks despite being 2x weaker.
And why is Base Naruto 2x weaker exactly?
Manga only? Momo dodged Naruto once, he was coming from out of the stage and the dude got an eye at the back of his head. It ain't hard to dodge even if he's twice as fast.I feel like being half the speed of your opponents is being made lesser than it actually is tbh
I mean Kaydee is saying that Sasuke being half as fast as Fused Momoshiki is fine because even with the Wood Dragons it's coming from a distance (paraphrasing)
But then you have Base Naruto repeatedly dodging attacks from Fused Momoshiki and even clashing with him but he's also CASUALLY dodged by Base Momoshiki without even looking in the Chunin Exams.
Like maybe just maybe the gap in speed isn't really there and these characters are all around the same speed, and it's just AP that makes the difference
Eye at the back of his head? He doesn't even have his Byakugan activated.
~< Momoshiki
What are Momoshiki's AP feats again?
Kicks and draws blood from base Naruto
Naruto was still mid turn when he got sent flying with blood, he was definitely off guard here.
If his veins has to pop up everytime it would mean he doesn't use his byakugan for 90% of his fights
I can throw this question back at you. If I agree that fused momo is not twice as fast as base momo it still doesn't explain how Naruto can't keep up with a casual base momo yet keeps up with fused momo with half his chakra drained.
We've seen both Kinshiki and Momoshiki use their Byakugan so I have no reason to assume they have it active when they don't
Base Naruto was caught off guard by Base Momo. He was still turning by the time he got sent away
I know I just think it's weird I've never seen it active when momo is in combat
Look at what you said "but not keep up with a casual base momoshiki"
Yes I agree, that didn't happen. I was steelmanning Kaydee's argument. I believe he was off guard when he got sent flying by Momoshiki because he was protecting Boruto, so obviously when he turned to see Momoshiki he was in no position to move away or block the attack because he still had Boruto in his hands making sure he was alright.
He was in the midst of an invasion and actively using his body as a shield to defend Boruto, plus he saw Momoshiki before he attacked. It makes no sense for Naruto to be offguard there.
He had already shielded Boruto pages prior, he was giving directions to Boruto ,while holding him, telling him where to go and got interrupted by Boruto's scream and saw Momoshiki and before he could do anything he got sent flying by a kick. He was absolutely caught off guard.
Momoshiki was standing still when Naruto saw him, Then he swung his foot. Between that time, Naruto could have easily kneaded enough chakra to amp physicals.
I'm just going to write my final arguments. I tried to post scans but for some reason imigur is rejecting my files so I'll just go ahead and say it.
yes we agree, but there’s definitely a reason to believe momoshiki got faster here.
We actually have no idea if he was standing still or in mid swing. So you cannot make that claim with such confidence. Also saying Naruto "could've easily" isn't an argument because there are reasons why he may not have as I outlined, which is also supported by the anime, the movie and also Naruto's performance against Fused Momoshiki. Which all point to that being an off guard feat.
Most of my scans have been rejecting too IDK why. Don't sweat it though.
In a vacuum I wouldn't mind this conclusion but I do not think this rules out the possibility that they're of the same speed and he's just stronger. I don't think NOT blocking or dodging an attack is proof that your slower. Relative character (in speed) will land hits on each other, that's not evidence IMO. Not only that but obviously, this isn't in a vacuum, in the context of the story we have Sasuke reacting to and fighting both Fused Momoshiki and Kinshiki, and Kurotsuchi did fight Kinshiki, so.
Oh come on, that gap is NOT even that big. You're saying that someone being 2x slower is going to be able to react to a punch thats at best a few feet apart? Naruto did not dodge Fused Momoshiki's attack from a distance the second time, Fused Momoshiki is LITERALLY right above him. Like INCHES apart?? I don't think Naruto COULDN'T keep up because he absolutely was keeping up, it's just KSPSM put him in a way bigger advantage as we see in their next interaction in KSPSM.
Yes. Yes we can, based on the last panel we got, we can easily make an inference that he was still.
Your “reasons” is Naruto having relative feats against Fused momoshiki and base momoshiki— something that can be dismissed as an outlier for the following reasons;
I believe Sasuke was weaker in kaguya dimension as he had been traveling around different space times to get the coordinates of kaguya space time. Sasuke fights kinshiki for a while with sarada in his arms. That says a lot.
You know what I just realised ? If you look at that panel there based on the way Naruto's body is bent and disoriented in the air I think Naruto barely scrapped away and the rebound force of momo hitting the ground actually pushed him away and right immediately momoshiki was behind him. Naruto was struggling very clearly and then had to go into spsm
It just doesn't. All we see is his shoulder in the panel prior to Naruto getting sent flying by a kick. We literally don't know how far up his leg was at all. And even if he was standing still it doesn't take away from the circumstance Naruto was in as I had mentioned earlier.
Naruto and Base Momoshiki have one valid interaction where Naruto just did one kick and jumped away to carry Boruto. If Naruto dodged Fused Momoshiki once, hypothetically, that wouldn't be indicative of him being faster, that would make him AT LEAST comparable/equal to him in speed, unless further context dictates otherwise.
Sasuke can still keep up with Naruto and fight equally with him even if he's weaker (he's not slower, they're equal like I've been saying this whole time).
Wait a damn minute... The exclamation marks as momoshiki appeared behind him. That's clearly a blitz or am I tripping?
We don't know how many different space times he was travelling through before fighting Kinshiki the first time. And in the Chunin exams he only dodges his attacks tbh he doesn't fight back (obviously, cause his hands are occupied).
In a vacuum maybe, but I'm not sure if blitzing is correct in this scenario considering Naruto's able to react, turn around and move his arm as Momoshiki throws his punch. This also doesn't change the fact that Naruto is able to dodge/block Fused Momoshiki 3 whole times
Yes but we know he's been searching for a while and is low on chakra.
Naruto did that with the help of his cloak tbh.In a vacuum maybe, but I'm not sure if blitzing is correct in this scenario considering Naruto's able to react, turn around and move his arm as Momoshiki throws his punch. This also doesn't change the fact that Naruto is able to dodge/block Fused Momoshiki 3 whole times
i suspect someone already replied to this one
1. Fixed the numbers issue
The only thing the cloak did was grab his arm but he was already "mid animation" so to speak.
How do we know he's low on chakra? That could've been his first destination. And he could've been walking in there for a while before finding upon the two Otsutsuki's. There's so much unknowns there.
Not really... Sasuke's just more nimble than Kinshiki. They're still comparable.
I don't agree.
