Bleach- PTS Speed Downgrade

[Cyberblader90]

Reishi light predates light. Why are they similar? They literally do not behave the same at all

 

[Arcker123]

i feel like this is being over complicated to the point of absurdity

Once again, both of you get on track

 

[AppleLord]

between you and apple the argument is confusing

is it" all reishi is ftl", even though that is contradicted

or is it "this one move is LS"

Reishi light > real light

 

[Cyberblader90]

I am on track
I have two arguments given to me that contradict each other

either mask's beam is exclusively LS

or all reishi is

which is it

 

[AppleLord]

Reishi light predates light. Why are they similar? They literally do not behave the same at all

Candice Reishi lightning is said to be above nature’s lightning.

Reishi Light > nature light

Reishi World > Kishi World

 

[Arcker123]

either mask's beam is exclusively LS

This, no one except apple is calling all reishi light speed, and if so for diffrent reasons, this is not at all relevant

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I am on track
I have two arguments given to me that contradict each other

either mask's beam is exclusively LS

or all reishi is

which is it

Reishi and kishin are basically the same diference is interaction

reishi light is the same as kishin light

the light from the sun or a camera from the human world is no deferent from the light of the sun or camera from the SS

 

[Torsin]

You can act like ignoring the multiple citations i have provided

As I said before from what I have personally seen you argued that the reflection shouldn't be happening so and so way because Zabimaru is a flat surface which was argued against.

The suns rays arent hot enough to vaporize a human, not on earth. The beam is concentrated. For it to cause that smoke in the spot mean the metal absorbed enough heat to cause smoke.

This is totally irrelevant. You claimed that if heat was present that means the beam in its entirety should have been absorbed and should not have reflected and somehow counted it as an anti feat. I literally provided evidence that disproves this entirely. To generate heat the entire beam does not need to be absorbed only a portion of it is enough. Mask's attack can emit how much ever heat it doesn't matter. Renji's sword didn't absorb the entire beam and the rest was reflected off the sword.

If you want to argue against concentration, that opens up: why isnt the air literally burning

This is where i tell you to stop dwelving too much into physics. This is fiction ffs. Ofc physics should be used as a base to evaluate feats but this is literally is digging deep into it. Its already told you why such statements do not work in fiction. By this logic I can literally claim that MFTL should not exist since nothing in the universe can move faster than light. His attack was concentrated at a singe point as simple as that.

The beam doesnt act like diffusion reflection. At all

It does tho. Some of the beam was absorbed by the sword and rest was reflected off. You saying the angles of incidence is not equal to the angle of reflection isn't a counter. It is nitpicking and putting the author on a pedestal to draw each and and everything with perfect knowledge of physics and take the time to draw them based on that.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Apple, all you have proven is that reishi light predates light
pre·date1
/prēˈdāt/

verb

exist or occur at a date earlier than (something)
nothing about it being faster

Candice's reishi arrows are slightly slower than lightning or at best equal

only electrocution is considered above lightning, and even then they dont mention speed

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Apple, all you have proven is that reishi light predates light
pre·date1
/prēˈdāt/

verb

exist or occur at a date earlier than (something)
nothing about it being faster

Candice's reishi arrows are slightly slower than lightning or at best equal

only electrocution is considered above lightning, and even then they dont mention speed

this is candice on the novels which is weaker than when she was on the war arc due to Yhwach taking away power form them

 

[Cyberblader90]

As I said before from what I have personally seen you argued that the reflection shouldn't be happening so and so way because Zabimaru is a flat surface which was argued against.

This is totally irrelevant. You claimed that if heat was present that means the beam in its entirety should have been absorbed and should not have reflected and somehow counted it as an anti feat. I literally provided evidence that disproves this entirely. To generate heat the entire beam does not need to be absorbed only a portion of it is enough. Mask's attack can emit how much ever heat it doesn't matter. Renji's sword didn't absorb the entire beam and the rest was reflected off the sword.

This is where i tell you to stop dwelving too much into physics. This is fiction ffs. Ofc physics should be used as a base to evaluate feats but this is literally is digging deep into it. I literally told you why such statements do not work in fiction. By this logic I can literally claim that MFTL should not exist since nothing in the universe can move faster than light. His attack was concentrated at a singe point as simple as that.

It does tho. Some of the beam was absorbed by the sword and rest was reflected off. You saying the angles of incidence is not equal to the angle of reflection isn't a counter. It is nitpicking and putting the author on a pedestal to draw each and and everything with perfect knowledge of physics and take the time to draw them based on that.

Again, kubo has drawn proper reflection, in the same arc.

Diffusion reflection is for NON FLAT surfaces. Ive given citations as to why this isnt that.

You argued AOE fallacy for the light.If you are going to argue it, then stick with it and dont half argue it. It being concentrated is a valid point

 

[Cyberblader90]

this is candice on the novels which is weaker than when she was on the war arc due to Yhwach taking away power form them

They refer to her lost vollstandig. Do you have a citation for her base being affected

 

[AppleLord]

Apple, all you have proven is that reishi light predates light
pre·date1
/prēˈdāt/

verb

exist or occur at a date earlier than (something)
nothing about it being faster

Candice's reishi arrows are slightly slower than lightning or at best equal

only electrocution is considered above lightning, and even then they dont mention speed

I was referring to the latter.

Ginjo is mocking Candice because her Reishi lightning is slower than light, Fullbringers turn the Reishi in matter into “Fullbring light” to move. The soul inside matter wherever Reishi or Kishi.

 

[Damage3245]

Candice Reishi lightning is said to be above nature’s lightning.

Not in terms of speed.

 

[Arcker123]

Again, kubo has drawn proper reflection, in the same arc.

when, why does that meet this frankly arbitrary definition of "true reflection"

 

[AppleLord]

Not in terms of speed.

General. It wasn’t said to be power.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Not in terms of speed.

the statement was in general, damage.

 

[Cyberblader90]

when, why does that meet this frankly arbitrary definition of "true reflection"

Specular reflection - Wikipedia

This is a perfect depiction of this type, except maybe the smoke

 

[Arcker123]

just like in the renji scan the light is in a branching arc (idk how to describe) plus it has smoke

 

[AppleLord]

Specular reflection - Wikipedia

This is a perfect depiction of this type, except maybe the smoke

When visible light is absorbed by an object, the object converts the short wavelength light into long wavelength heat. This causes the object to get warmer. But this is only part of the story as to why Earth is warm. ... When absorbed, the short wavelength sunlight is converted to long wavelength heat.

Proving Quincy Reishi arrows to be “Arrows of Light” or “Rays of Light” as stated in the source material.

This is relevant with all Reishi energy attacks having vaporization feats.

 

[Cyberblader90]

My issue with quincy arrows isnt this scene.

i agree with you that this scene is rather good to prove it as light

my issue is stuff like explosions/impacts happening rather often with these.

Light doesnt do that

 

[Damage3245]

the statement was in general, damage.

Actually, the first statement for it in the novel specifies power. I've read the official translation.

 

[Cyberblader90]

just like in the renji scan the light is in a branching arc (idk how to describe) plus it has smoke

renji scene is far different. Star goes out flat like a 2d shape on a non flat surface

 

[Torsin]

Again, kubo has drawn proper reflection, in the same arc.

I already pointed out why this is irrelevant. Two different feats. Two different angles. Doesn't mean he can't portray it wrongly. He isn't a scientist or physics expert to measure the aoi and aor and make it equal for each and every feat involving light. He is a mangaka ffs.

Diffusion reflection is for NON FLAT surfaces. I've given citations as to why this isnt that.

And I and various members have argued against it. First of all Renji's Zabimaru has several ridges from where his blade extends and if you see the scans again Mask's beam covers two to three of its ridges. This itself can be argued to be the cause of diffusion reflection. And again you are holding the author to a high pedestal when each of his rays has to be properly reflected then only it can be considered as light. Such standards are held to no other verse here.

You argued AOE fallacy for the light.If you are going to argue it, then stick with it and dont half argue it. It being concentrated is a valid point

And I am still sticking to it lol. You claimed why didn't the atmosphere burn. I claimed that this was an AOE fallacy and that Mask could just be concentrating his attack to a point which is why the atmosphere is not affected which is why the atmosphere was not affected.

 

[AppleLord]

Actually, the first statement for it in the novel specifies power. I've read the official translation.

Those two statements are not relevant to each other. Even in the manga Liltotto makes fun of Candice that 5 Gigajoules of power will not harm Ichigo.

 

[AppleLord]

My issue with quincy arrows isnt this scene.

i agree with you that this scene is rather good to prove it as light

my issue is stuff like explosions/impacts happening rather often with these.

Light doesnt do that

So let me ask you again.

Should we remove all LS feats based on “beams of light” and “lasers” interacting with matter? That includes light cutting feats.

 

[Cyberblader90]

And I and various members have argued against it. First of all Renji's Zabimaru has several ridges from where his blade extends and if you see the scans again Mask's beam covers two to three of its ridges. This itself can be argued to be the cause of diffusion reflection. And again you are holding the author to a high pedestal when each of his rays has to be properly reflected then only it can be considered as light. Such standards are held to no other verse here.

It seems there is a misunderstanding here. The surface of zabimaru isnt flat. We agree on this.

My issue is what happened with renji isnt diffusion. Re read the secene

The star goes out flat like 2-d paper. its not going at an angle.

 

[Cyberblader90]

So let me ask you again.

Should we remove all LS feats based on “beams of light” and “lasers” interacting with matter? That includes light cutting feats.

light that explodes, since that means it doesnt act like photons, for one

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Actually, the first statement for it in the novel specifies power. I've read the official translation.

the power of the arrows yes, for electrocution the statement was general

 

[Arcker123]

light that explodes, since that means it doesnt act like photons, for one

Scans

 

[Cyberblader90]

And I am still sticking to it lol. You claimed why didn't the atmosphere burn. I claimed that this was an AOE fallacy and that Mask could just be concentrating his attack to a point which is why the atmosphere is not affected.

reason this is relevant, and tying in with your first point. it being concentrated and a few meters long should mean the star should diffuse aand go out at angles, likewise to several meters. that doesnt happen

 

[Cyberblader90]

Scans

scans for?
Im not claiming mask explodes.

i was answering apple

 

[Arcker123]

what even are the arguments here

 

[AppleLord]

light that explodes, since that means it doesnt act like photons, for one

Don’t make exceptions. All or nothing.

 

[AKM sama]

Going by the original thread, I have a few issues that I would like to be answered here before I give my opinion about this.

The attack is called a beam of light by the person. I don't see any other reliable sources saying that it is lightspeed? If there are, I think they should be provided. Because just being called a "beam of light" isn't proof on its own, as you can gather by many other such beams that are called light like piccolo's makankosappo, ginyu's change beam, freeza's death beam and so on. That's why our standards are there.

A supporting point was brought up that it got reflected off a metal surface. We see smoke rising from it and a character statement that says he deflected/repelled it. I mean, sure it got deflected, but nobody would have made this argument if he deflected/repelled it with his hands instead, or just swatted it away like a fly. Or if he had a different weapon in his hand instead of a metal. The statement "you deflected/repelled by attack" would still be valid in that case, and the feat would have been played out the same way. I don't think the reflection point is a strong point in favor of the feat. But even if we consider this as valid, it is still only one criteria, so I am not gonna argue this point in detail.

I believe the argument about the sfx is a valid concern, since the previous thread said that it did not explode, just burned. And while the "klang" sound was addressed, the sfx was not. I don't think real light would produce a sound, but let's wait for the translation to be 100% sure, since it is an important point.

 

[Cyberblader90]

summary (again)

Light makes a noise, proven by the sfx. We dont know what type yet. Could be impact, because the symbol is somewhat similar to one used for clang (which may explain why viz did what they did) or could be sizzle from burning. Its been put up for translation

"turn aside" was a mistranslation. Its actually "repel", which as akm pointed out, doesnt mean reflection

The light itself doesnt reflect like diffusion or any other kind. my argument is that it possibly is expanding, but that part is not to important.

the beam was argued to have "aoe", so even as a concetrated beam it doesnt behave like reflection

kubo shows he can draw proper reflection in the same arc

Another issue is the heat it has for vaporization may also be an anti feat, regarding speed

and a lot of "lets ignore physics" so far from the thread so far, although that violates light standards

 

[Cyberblader90]

Don’t make exceptions. All or nothing.

What exceptions?

 

[AppleLord]

What exceptions?

Explosions.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Explosions.

thats an example
of course other feats where it violates standards and has no way to be proven as light speed

 

[Reio35]

What?
Again Photons have mass. provide a source they dont

Lasers can move at light speed
Laser smashes light-speed record – Physics World

I already debunked this earlier. Electromagnetic waves produce momentum which has mass